Thousands of years ago God created infinite past and future time.

[StevenMerten]

Hello All,

Our Spiritual God exists outside of the physical time which He created. Time is the measure of change between matter, energy and empty space. God is Spiritual and Omni-Present to the whole of physical time which He created.

The past of physical time must bend to the awesome power of our Omni-Powerful God's hand. If God decides to destroy a city with meteorites, then He can make the past so that meteorites have been headed toward that city for tens of thousands of years. If God changes His mind, because the people repented, and decides not to destroy the city, He can make the past of time so that the meteorites never existed. God is just that powerful!

Where there was no empty space, matter and energy a week before the creation of Adam thousands or tens of thousands of years ago, God created tens of billions of years, if not infinite, past and future physical time.

 

[FreezBee]

Hello All,

Our Spiritual God exists outside of the physical time which He created. Time is the measure of change between matter, energy and empty space. God is Spiritual and Omni-Present to the whole of physical time which He created.

Hello StevenMerten;

This far I agree with you.

The past of physical time must bend to the awesome power of our Omni-Powerful God's hand. If God decides to destroy a city with meteorites, then He can make the past so that meteorites have been headed toward that city for tens of thousands of years. If God changes His mind, because the people repented, and decides not to destroy the city, He can make the past of time so that the meteorites never existed. God is just that powerful!

Why would God make disorder in his own creation? He need not do that, and he is a God of order. He started creation by bringing things into order, so why would he destroy that order?

Where there was no empty space, matter and energy a week before the creation of Adam thousands or tens of thousands of years ago, God created tens of billions of years, if not infinite, past and future physical time.

You might be right, of course, but what is your arguments that we might believe, what you say?


- FreezBee

 

[StevenMerten]

Hello All,

The past of physical time must bend to the awesome power of our Omni-Powerful God's hand. If God decides to destroy a city with meteorites, then He can make the past so that meteorites have been headed toward that city for tens of thousands of years. If God changes His mind, because the people repented, and decides not to destroy the city, He can make the past of time so that the meteorites never existed. God is just that powerful!

Hello StevenMerten;

Why would God make disorder in his own creation? He need not do that, and he is a God of order. He started creation by bringing things into order, so why would he destroy that order?

- FreezBee

Hello FreezBee,

The only thing in existance worth allowing hatred, sin and damnation (disorder), is love? Had God dissallowed freedom from the control of His will there would be no hatred, sin and damnation (disorder). Had God disallowed freedom from the control of His will, there would be no manmade fruit of love for God to line the walls of the Kingdom of God.

One cannot love without the capability to choose not to love. One cannot be kind with out the capability to choose not to be kind. One cannot obey without the capability to choose to disobey.

NIV 1JO 5:3

This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome.​

NIV JOH 14:15

"If you love me, you will obey what I command." ​

 

[billwald]

Then we live in a mystical/magical universe, not a physical universe.

 

[The Lady Kate]

If God decides to destroy a city with meteorites, then He can make the past so that meteorites have been headed toward that city for tens of thousands of years. If God changes His mind, because the people repented, and decides not to destroy the city, He can make the past of time so that the meteorites never existed. God is just that powerful!

But not powerful enough to know the future? If the people of the city of your example were ever going to repent, wouldn't God have known it in advance? There'd be no need for Him to change His mind if He knew what the final outcome was going to be all along.

 

[StevenMerten]

Then we live in a mystical/magical universe, not a physical universe.

Hello billwald,

Yes, the physical universe was created from nothing by the awesome power of God's Hand. Miraculous! yes! I would not use the words "mysical/magical" to describe it though. These words seem to be more related to the works of the devil.

 

[StevenMerten]

But not powerful enough to know the future? If the people of the city of your example were ever going to repent, wouldn't God have known it in advance? There'd be no need for Him to change His mind if He knew what the final outcome was going to be all along.

Hello The Lady Kate,

God exists outside of physical time and He interacts with physical time.

God was going to destroy Nineveh. The Holy Spirit came to Jonah and inspired him to prophesy to the people of Nineveh. Due to the intervention of God, through Prophet Jonah, the people repented and God relented from destroying the town.

Lot asked God if He would still destroy Sodom and Gamorah if ten good men could be found. God agreed to do this for Lot. Ten good men were not found and the towns were destroyed.

Simply because God is Omni-Present to the whole of physical time, this does not elliminate man's free will or God's capacity to make desitions which effect the physical world.

Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten

 

[Maul]

But not powerful enough to know the future? If the people of the city of your example were ever going to repent, wouldn't God have known it in advance? There'd be no need for Him to change His mind if He knew what the final outcome was going to be all along.

Agreed.

If God decides to destroy a city with meteorites, then He can make the past so that meteorites have been headed toward that city for tens of thousands of years. If God changes His mind, because the people repented, and decides not to destroy the city, He can make the past of time so that the meteorites never existed. God is just that powerful!

Wwweeellll... G-d is perfect in every way. So that means he NEVER sinned. And destroying a city is a sin; is it not?

Thou will not commit murder

He could send an angel to do it, but you said that G-d destroyed the city.

 

[The Lady Kate]

Hello The Lady Kate,

God exists outside of physical time and He interacts with physical time.

God was going to destroy Nineveh. The Holy Spirit came to Jonah and inspired him to prophesy to the people of Nineveh. Due to the intervention of God, through Prophet Jonah, the people repented and God relented from destroying the town.

Lot asked God if He would still destroy Sodom and Gamorah if ten good men could be found. God agreed to do this for Lot. Ten good men were not found and the towns were destroyed.

Of course, but God already knew in advance that Jonah would succeed and Lot would fail. That's my point... how could He not?

Simply because God is Omni-Present to the whole of physical time, this does not elliminate man's free will or God's capacity to make desitions which effect the physical world.

of course God makes decisions which affect the physical world... but has God ever actually changed His mind? Wouldn't doing such a thing mean that God was mistaken the first time, or at the very least, unaware that events would change?

 

[philadiddle]

Our Spiritual God exists outside of the physical time which He created. Time is the measure of change between matter, energy and empty space. God is Spiritual and Omni-Present to the whole of physical time which He created.

agreed

The past of physical time must bend to the awesome power of our Omni-Powerful God's hand. If God decides to destroy a city with meteorites, then He can make the past so that meteorites have been headed toward that city for tens of thousands of years. If God changes His mind, because the people repented, and decides not to destroy the city, He can make the past of time so that the meteorites never existed. God is just that powerful!

this contradicts the first paragraph. if god is omni-present to the whole of physical time, he would know the outcome and would not need to change His mind.

Where there was no empty space, matter and energy a week before the creation of Adam thousands or tens of thousands of years ago, God created tens of billions of years, if not infinite, past and future physical time.

Why would God leave evidence of a false past? the fossil record indicates life has existed much longer then that. there would be no need for God to lie to us through His creation. If God made the earth 6-10k years ago, the evidence would suggest that.

BTW, what u are saying sounds a lot like last thursdayism. The belief that the world was created last thursday and will end next thursday. everything was created as is. You also sound like the Flying Spagetti Monster Theory. The flying spagetti monster created everything 10k years ago and his noodly appendages plant false evidence of evolution.

 

[FreezBee]

Why would God leave evidence of a false past? the fossil record indicates life has existed much longer then that. there would be no need for God to lie to us through His creation. If God made the earth 6-10k years ago, the evidence would suggest that.

Wise words

We have faith in God, so we trust God to not deceive us. So if the universe appears billions of years old, it is billions of years old. Our theories may be more or less wrong, but still our faith in God allows us to trust our senses and our minds.

If we start believing in a deceiving God, then anything can be claimed true and false, because where would the end of the deception be?


- FreezBee

 

[Calminian]

I disagree with this but it's an interesting discussion. You say God created an infinite future and past. In essence you believe God created something with no beginning nor end. I'm curious if you also believe the universe is infinite. Interestingly, scientists do not, nor do they believe time is infinite (at least not those I've conversed with).

I'm guessing your theory is an attempt to reconcile modern theories about origins with the text, but I may be way off. Please clarify.

Our Spiritual God exists outside of the physical time which He created. Time is the measure of change between matter, energy and empty space. God is Spiritual and Omni-Present to the whole of physical time which He created.

Yet you believe He created it with no beginning. What has lead you to this conclusion? Have you derived this from scripture? If so, where?

Where there was no empty space, matter and energy a week before the creation of Adam thousands or tens of thousands of years ago, God created tens of billions of years, if not infinite, past and future physical time.

Again, scientists (modern scientists) believe in a finite universe (which includes space, matter and time). And I see no evidence the bible teaches God created an infinite universe. So where does this theory come from.

An interesting idea, though.

 

[shernren]

I don't know about infinite future (which would conflict with conventional eschatology) but an infinite past is probably incompatible with the Christian faith. The universe has to have a moment of creation, and it cannot have had any existence or time before that moment. This was why (if I'm not mistaken) the early Church Fathers were against the traditional Greek view that the universe had had an infinite past - if the universe had existed forever then it could not have been created at any point in the past.

 

[ThaiDuykhang]

The creation of universe ex-nihili is against physics law, in other words, a miracle. so one can't trace the original of universe using physics.

What if one tries to explain the resurrection of Jesus using physics? an imposter maybe?

 

[Dannager]

SteveMerten, why would God feel a need to create a world with a false past, and then tell us that it's only been around for a few thousand years? This makes God appear deceptive, for we hear him say one thing, and then observe the world around us to say another.

 

[StevenMerten]

SteveMerten, why would God feel a need to create a world with a false past, and then tell us that it's only been around for a few thousand years?

Hello Dannager,

Do you believe that God is Omni-Present to the whole of physical time which He created? Do you believe God can observe Christ's death on the cross and then go through out all physical time, past and present, and reveal what He sees to the prophets of all time?

NAB PSA 118:22

The stone which the builders rejected has become the cornerstone. By the LORD has this been done; it is wonderful in our eyes. This is the day the LORD has made; let us be glad and rejoice in it.



​

I do not see our Spiritual God as contained by laws of physical time. God dose not sit around for tens of billions of years waiting to bring His focus of physical creation, free willed, love for God capable man, into existance. From God's focus point of Omni-Presence to physical time, a physical universe flowed out into the past and into the future by our Omni-Powerful God's hand.

This makes God appear deceptive, for we hear him say one thing, and then observe the world around us to say another.

I do not believe that our Spiritual, Omni-Present to the whole of physical time, God, who can do all things, has decieved us by telling us that He brought physical creation into existance at the time of Adam, simply because man's vision, which, outside of faith, is limited to physical objects.

 

[StevenMerten]

I disagree with this but it's an interesting discussion. You say God created an infinite future and past. In essence you believe God created something with no beginning nor end. I'm curious if you also believe the universe is infinite. Interestingly, scientists do not, nor do they believe time is infinite (at least not those I've conversed with).

Again, scientists (modern scientists) believe in a finite universe (which includes space, matter and time). And I see no evidence the bible teaches God created an infinite universe. So where does this theory come from.

An interesting idea, though.

Hello Calminian,

I appreciate the "an interesting idea, though."

I wanted to clarify that I did not insist upon "infinite" past and future. I said: "God created tens of billions of years, if not infinite, past and future physical time" Although, I will be honest, it is hard for me to imagine empty space coming into existance tens of billions of years ago or any non-infinite period in time ago.

Where there was no empty space, matter and energy a week before the creation of Adam thousands or tens of thousands of years ago, God created tens of billions of years, if not infinite, past and future physical time.

I'm guessing your theory is an attempt to reconcile modern theories about origins with the text, but I may be way off. Please clarify.

Yet you believe He created it with no beginning. What has lead you to this conclusion? Have you derived this from scripture? If so, where?

As in the day of Galileo, today there seem to many people that believe science disproves God's word. In order for thier belief to be true one would have to limit God to physical time. Once God is limited to physcial time, one simply has to say that God had to bring creation into existance from a physical point in physical time from before creation existed. So to disprove God's word, one must limit God to the constraint of physical time.

If God is fully Omni-present to the whole of the physcial time He created, then the universe past and future, flows out into existance from what ever point in physical time He tells us it did.

Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten

 

[StevenMerten]

Hello all,

Here is some of the scripture which leads me to this conclusion.

Here is Christ's teaching on the reverse of physical creation. People ressurecting into spiritual omni-presence to all past and future physical time.

We know that saints ressurect into spiritual eternal life after Jesus' death and ressurection. Yet, when talking about Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, before His death and ressurection, Jesus tells us that they are not dead waiting to rise but alive in heaven. Jesus emphasises His point on this.

One can conclude that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob wait in death until after Jesus' ressurection and then are raised to Spiritual omni-presence to the whole of past and future physical time. This is how Jesus, before His death and ressurection, can boldly claim that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are not dead waiting to rise but alive in heaven.

We also have the scriptures where Moses and Elijah come and talk to Jesus before his death and ressurection.

NAB MAR 12:18

Then some Sadducees who hold there is no resurrection came to him with a question ...\\...12:24 Jesus said: "You are badly misled, because you fail to understand the Scriptures or the power of God. When people rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage but live like angels in heaven. As to the raising of the dead, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the passage about the burning bush, how God told him, 'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob'? He is the God of the living not of the dead, You are very much mistaken." ​

NAB LUK 20:37

Moses in the passage about the bush showed that the dead rise again when he called the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. God is not the God of the dead but of the living. All are alive for him.

​

NAB MAT 17:2

His face became as dazzling as the sun, his clothes as radiant as light. Suddenly Moses and Elijah appeared to them conversing with him.


​

Peace in Christ
Steven Merten