Thoughts on Perry Noble?

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I had not heard of Perry Noble so I did a quick Google search. His blog and the church website seem fine to me. He strikes me as a fairly typical Southern Baptist megachurch pastor. He is too young IMO to be qualified as a biblical elder and he is not a member of a group of biblical elders, but then Baptists typically do not have elders, biblical or otherwise.

Because of his relative youth and inexperience he seems to be making some painful mistakes including falling into the typical trap of insisting on tithing.

I found the following from a critical webpage to be interesting -

"NewSpring Church pastor Perry Noble has declared that he’s had enough of people arriving to church late, criticizing the music, etc. They also have a rule that if you have to leave the auditorium during the message you cannot re-enter. And kids under 12 are not allowed in the service at all. A little over-the-top authoritarian? Here’s what FBC Jax Watchdog had to say:
It ain’t easy being a member these days at NewSpring Church pastored by Perry Noble – the rules, the regulations, the sheep beatings, the curses.
According to Perry Noble, you “officially suck as a human being” if you express to Perry that you are purposely late to church because you like his preaching but don’t care for the music style.
NewSpring members need to be careful that their church doesn’t begin to fall into the category of a cult. Cults often begin by having a very demanding, charismatic leader, they will require conformity with rigid extra-biblical rules, they will devalue outsiders and non-conformists, and they will suppress dissent.

You see all four of these beginning to emerge at NewSpring. Not saying they are a cult, but when the charismatic leader starts telling people that :
  • - they can’t come back into the auditorium after the sermon starts even if they leave to tend to a child or go to the bathroom;
  • - that you suck as a human being if you disagree with the pastor over music styles;
  • - you are not allowed to designate how your donations are spent;
  • - you must give 10% of your income to the church un-designated or God will curse you;
  • - parents cannot bring children younger than 12 years of age into the church services;
  • - you must show up to church on time or you can’t get into the church service;
…then you better begin to get concerned.
So I decided to check out the sermon video for myself. Perry makes some good points. People have become apathetic about arriving to church on time, while they would never think to be late for work, or a sports match. And some people seem to have no problem about the people they are distracting when they sit near the front, need to leave, and then return. As for the issue of kids, I agree with Perry that his sermons tend toward PG-13 content.
But some of it was very disturbing to listen to. Is something else going on here? Where is grace in all this? Why give up an entire Sunday sermon to an apologetic for the church’s rules and regulations? Let’s return to the FBC Jax Watchdog blog:
Lest you think that I’m overstating things by bringing up the word “cult” – don’t forget what happened to a critic of Perry Noble’s at the hands of staff members a few years back that is the subject of an on-going lawsuit. You see from the “you suck as a human being” quote how those who even mildly express dissent are devalued by the pastor. I would say it is this kind of rhetoric from the pastor towards dissenters that breeds the actions taken by a staff member against the Noble critic back in 2008 and 2009.
Perry Noble even tells the parents that if they don’t conform to the “authority” of the church leaders, they will breed rebelliousness in the hearts of their children . No, actually subjecting one’s self to non-biblical requirements for the pleasure of the pastor might teach your kids that they must endure spiritual abuse at the hands of an over-bearing preacher.

…This is classic sheep beating. A pastor is to be the picture of humility and servant-hood for the people he shepherds, but instead Perry Noble is a stand-up comedian who makes jokes about troublesome church members, denigrates Christians who disagree with him, and lays down extra-biblical rules that are burdensome on people.Unfortunately in Perry Noble and other mega pastor superstars these days, we have professional religious men who have turned Christianity from its essence: the release of sinful men and women from the burden of having to try to please God with their works and their alms through simple faith in Christ – into a strict religious system that demands conformity to religious practices, tells people how they must think and what rules they must obey to be pleasing to God and their priest, and uses tactics of guilt and shame in the process. And, oh by the way, they get filthy rich while doing it.

I’m pretty sure that if Jesus were here, he would warn the people of NewSpring about the arrogant Perry Noble and his professional religious men and describe them as he did the Pharisees:

“They tie up heavy burdens and lay them on men’s shoulders, but they themselves are unwilling to move them with so much as a finger.” (Mat 23:4)"



I think he, as well as NewSpring Church, may be in for a rough ride ahead. They need our prayers.

 
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mikedsjr

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Instead of creating another thread, I thought I would just ask on this one.

Has anyone heard about Perry Noble's Christmas Sermon? If so, I'm interested on your thoughts on a particular issue to his sermon, because there is a sense many Christian pastors do the same thing he did. He claimed God gave him a sermon to tell his people. So my questions in particular are:

If God gave him a sermon, is it to be considered Scripture, equal with Scripture?

Should the members of his church footnote the 10 commandments in their bible so they see God said something different now.

Should not the church from this point forward speak of the 10 commandments in any way that he describes in his sermon?

Should his church rewrite Scripture based on his word from God?

These questions could be said of many pastors who claim they had a word from God and what they say is not in Scripture.

edit note: If you saw the entire post, I apologize that I was more harsh than I should have been, even though you might think this is still harsh, I find it more rational to discuss.
 
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98cwitr

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$50M in income for the church, 31% went to staffing, less than 10% to missions....hmmmmm

https://newspring.cc/annualreport#page-fuse
In which I argue that Perry Noble and Steven Furtick are not overpaid ? Pajama Pages

imo, and Im going to try and not overgeneralize here, but these megachurches are BUSINESSES, not Temples of God, and their shepherds are in it for one thing...cold, hard cash. I'd like to think I'd find Christ in a church with 10 members in the middle of corn field before I'd find it there.
 
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mikedsjr

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I would at least listen to the sermon to see if I'm off my rocker first. The sermon was a bit more to the gospel than most sermons nowadays. I'm just trying to understand if the sermon was from God, shouldn't the Scriptures be altered, because he claimed Commandment isn't in the Hebrew at all and went on to teach a different set of 10 promises in Christ.
 
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98cwitr I read that link last night after listening to the dividing line, and it says he is paid somewhere between 350,000$ and 1.3M$ but probably around 800,000$

That issue aside, as a student of Hebrew, I can confirm that there are Hebrew words for command, so I don't buy that God told him to preach that. At least, and it seems that his whole sermon came from the idea that the 10 Words are 10 Promises, to which if the Hebrew wanted to say that, it would have, as it also has a word for 'promise.'

Just because someone claims God told them something, doesn't mean that God actually did. Revelation needs to line up with the measuring stick of our faith (i.e. Canon ->Scripture) to see whether it is legitimate or not.

The other issue, is does Perry Noble have a history of distorting texts, and/or is he actually qualified to be bringing out the meaning of the texts at all (i.e. does he have a basic understanding of Greek, since he claimed no knowledge of Hebrew, and can he be a faithful exegete).
 
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98cwitr

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98cwitr I read that link last night after listening to the dividing line, and it says he is paid somewhere between 350,000$ and 1.3M$ but probably around 800,000$

That issue aside, as a student of Hebrew, I can confirm that there are Hebrew words for command, so I don't buy that God told him to preach that. At least, and it seems that his whole sermon came from the idea that the 10 Words are 10 Promises, to which if the Hebrew wanted to say that, it would have, as it also has a word for 'promise.'

Just because someone claims God told them something, doesn't mean that God actually did. Revelation needs to line up with the measuring stick of our faith (i.e. Canon ->Scripture) to see whether it is legitimate or not.

The other issue, is does Perry Noble have a history of distorting texts, and/or is he actually qualified to be bringing out the meaning of the texts at all (i.e. does he have a basic understanding of Greek, since he claimed no knowledge of Hebrew, and can he be a faithful exegete).

agreed :thumbsup:

All that said, I watched the little video link in the OP, and I have to say I agree with what he said. If a church gets run and dictated based on anyone getting upset (even for the wrong reasons) then it IS a country club and not a church. And if you aren't coming to church because of the music, and that is what keeps them from getting their for worship then their head isn't on straight. Should he have shown a little humility, sure...he could have said it better, but in the limited context of the video I commend him, but I know there is so much more to the stories so I will refrain from supporting him in any other regard.

What I want to know is what is his real, personal reason for being a pastor and in the line of work he's in. That's what I wonder about.
 
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USCGrad90

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Some of his sermons have questionable wording and theology, as noted in the posts about the Christmas Eve sermon on the Ten Commandments. There is also a video on Youtube from the same sermon where he says the "N" word.
He used AC/DC music in an Easter sermon, which got flak and led him to state that if people don't like the music, they don't need to come.
Some of his language is crude and doesn't always reflect a sense of reverence that you expect in the church and he has justified his language and style as the means to speak to the common person in language that they understand.
Newspring set up one of their campuses in our town last year inside the old Wal-Mart, which has a small Baptist Church right behind it, across the street. Our town has at least half a dozen Baptist churches and numerous other denominations, so I wondered why they chose our town for a new campus. (Likely to accomodate the members that drive from our town to the main church less than an hour away.)
A lot of young people are drawn to the church based on the music and big presentations they put on and a number from our church left to go there.
I know some who have gone and were turned off by the loud music and fact that kids get seperated and excluded from the main worship service.
Here is a link to some more info on Noble:
Perry Noble - Empowered By Christ
 
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mikedsjr

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Perry came out this Sunday apologized for his n word but stood firm on the word commandment is not in what we know as the 10 commandments. However that is not what he said in his sermon on Christmas eve. He said there was no words in the Hebrew for commandment then went on to rewrite the 10 as promises.
 
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jimmyjimmy

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Having heard many sermons and various comments made by Perry, my opinion is that he is not fit to be an elder in the church, according to the biblical requirements.

Below is a page from his indoctrinating coloring book where he is the "visionary" and the entire church is to be "united under" him. Talk about vain!
capture-elevation-church-coloring-book.jpg
 
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jimmyjimmy

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imo, and Im going to try and not overgeneralize here, but these megachurches are BUSINESSES, not Temples of God, and their shepherds are in it for one thing...cold, hard cash. I'd like to think I'd find Christ in a church with 10 members in the middle of corn field before I'd find it there.

It seems that it's all about book deals and $. These types, though I can't for the life of me figure out why, are "rock star" pastors.
 
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Extraneous

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It seems that it's all about book deals and $. These types, though I can't for the life of me figure out why, are "rock star" pastors. One theory is that he's not shepherding sheep, he's entertaining goats.

Looks like a typical political rally held by democrats and republicans. Politicians are entertaining Goats as well.


 
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AGTG

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Tithing?

There's a reason why they do that, and it's related to submission and authority. If a person is willing to agree to giving them a 10% cut of their income, they have submitted to that authority in very great measure. The ministry, in turn can now use that massive measure of authority to speak witchcraft and manipulation over that person. That kind of authority can be abused to cloud many givers' judgment enough to keep them strung along.
 
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