This (non)conversation with my husband:

[LovebirdsFlying]

Established: I have a serious depressive disorder. This time of year it always worsens, for complicated reasons, and right now it's especially brutal. My next session is Nov. 1 but I've put in a call to my psychologist and I'm waiting to hear back. I may need to go in sooner. I haven't been hospitalized for depression in a few years, but it may be a possibility this time around.

Also established: Although he has never been tested, and chooses not to be, it's possible my husband may be on the autism spectrum. He suspects so himself, and I also find reason to think it could be true.

Well, since I'm having an extremely rough time right now, and I'm barely holding it together, I needed to alert him that I've called my psychologist and I'm waiting to hear back. He was obviously busy with bill paying and record keeping, so I waited. Finally he appeared to be finished.... kind of. Mixed signals. So here's what followed.

Me: Are you finished?
Him: Yes.

But he doesn't look up, he's still shuffling papers and stuffing envelopes, and he still sort of appears to be concentrating. I know very well that he can't do two things at once, as he often reminds me, so I really need him to be actually finished before I start talking. Otherwise, he might not even remember the conversation. I wait a few more minutes, while nothing changes, and then:

Me: When you get a minute, I need your full attention, just briefly.
Him: (Doesn't say anything at all, still doesn't look up, continues shuffling papers and stuffing envelopes.)
Me: (After another short wait.) It's important.
Him: (Same nonresponse as above. Again I emphasize, he isn't even looking up from what he's doing.)

I wait still a few more minutes, then I give up and start to walk away.

Him: Well, are you going to tell me?
Me: Not now, I'm not.
Him: I'm listening. If you walk away, that's on you, not me.

But he had given me NO INDICATION whatsoever that he was listening! No looking up, no "just a minute," no "what do you need," or anything like that.

I did end up telling him. The trouble is, from this point on, I can't discuss that lapse in communication with him. I won't be able to tell him that when I'm talking to him, I need him to look up from what he's doing, and at least to acknowledge what I say with "OK," or something like that, so I know he heard me. No matter how calmly, quietly, or matter-of-factly I say it, ALL he will see is that I'm having a mental health episode again, and my thinking must be distorted, and it's nothing he did.

Is there any hope for this one?

 

[snoochface]

Why was there urgency that you tell him *right then* that you were waiting to hear back from your psychologist? His bill paying was a finite task. It would have been over eventually - maybe 30 minutes or an hour later. You knew he wasn't listening, that's why you got up to leave the room. So if you knew he was involved in something, and you knew he couldn't do two things at once, and you knew he wasn't finished with the first thing he was doing, why didn't you just wait until he was finished for real before telling him you needed his full attention and it was important? Even hearing those two sentences from you were going to distract him from what he was already doing. Just wait until he's done, and then tell him.

I'm not trying to put all of this on you. I just think you know how he is, you acknowledged it, but you still worked against what you knew about him - and that causes you frustration. But you can't change how he is, you can only change what you do about it. In this case, I think you should have saved yourself the frustration and waited until he was done-done, not by his automatic answering that he was done, but by your observation that he was no longer actually involved in the task, and then told him. It didn't seem like telling him right that minute was an urgency.

 

[Poppyseed78]

He clearly heard you, which is confirmed by him saying "If you walk away that's on you." That means that while you were standing there, waiting for him, and asking if he was ready, he simply chose to ignore you. That's rude. Common courtesy dictates that he should have said "Hold on just a minute, I'm almost done." Giving you the silent treatment comes across as passive aggressive. If he's on the autism spectrum, then it could be totally unintentional, and he just didn't get the social cue. Frustrating either way, though.

All that being said...I don't think this will change. It sounds like that's just how he is. Your only option is to adjust your expectations and reactions so you don't end up frustrated.

I don't like the accusation that if you're feeling depressed, any misunderstanding you have is automatically your fault because your thinking is "distorted". I'm not sure how I'd address that, but it rubs me wrong. It strikes me as a "blame the crazy person" cop-out where he doesn't have to take any responsibility. Meanwhile, because he's "autistic," he can just excuse away his rudeness whenever it suits him. So your thing makes you "crazy," but his thing makes him lovably clueless? Ummmm no.

I think I got a little overly invested in this.

 

[mkgal1]

I don't like the accusation that if you're feeling depressed, any misunderstanding you have is automatically your fault because your thinking is "distorted". I'm not sure how I'd address that, but it rubs me wrong. It strikes me as a "blame the crazy person" cop-out where he doesn't have to take any responsibility. Meanwhile, because he's "autistic," he can just excuse away his rudeness whenever it suits him. So your thing makes you "crazy," but his thing makes him lovably clueless? Ummmm no.

This especially ^

 

[Gwen-is-new!]

Have you ever considered writing him a note or sending an email to tell him what you need. I know it sounds crazy, but I find when I'm frustrated over my husband not listening or looking up, etc.. and my emotions are high (sense of urgency). I just write him a note, and later ask him if he read it. This way I don't lose my peace (get bitter) wanting him to be something/someone he's not, and I feel better by getting it out of my head onto paper. Just an idea. Praying you are feeling better soon.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

To answer Snooch's question, when he got done paying the bills, he was going right straight to bed. It was then, or no chance. If it hadn't been shuffling the papers, it would have been brushing his teeth, taking his medicine, etc. He is a creature of routine and will not vary it in any way. And that *does* sound like mild autism, doesn't it?

He doesn't like for me to leave notes, but if that's the only way to communicate with him, then that's what will have to be done.

Yes, the "never my fault, it's all on you because you have a depressive disorder and that means your thinking is distorted," is a big source of conflict sometimes. He has HUGE blind spots when it comes to how his own behavior comes across to other people. It doesn't matter how many people tell him, for example, that his tone of voice was too harsh. He doesn't hear it, so he'll insist, "There was no tone of voice," and stick to it. He didn't *really* bite somebody's head off. It was everybody else's imagination. At the same time, I cannot be legitimately sad or angry for any reason. If I show the slightest bit of emotion, under any circumstances, he puts it all on the depression.

None of this is him being mean on purpose. I don't think he can see it when it's pointed out. It's like telling somebody who's colorblind, "No, that's supposed to be orange, not red," and they can't see the difference and don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Poppyseed78]

To answer Snooch's question, when he got done paying the bills, he was going right straight to bed. It was then, or no chance. If it hadn't been shuffling the papers, it would have been brushing his teeth, taking his medicine, etc. He is a creature of routine and will not vary it in any way. And that *does* sound like mild autism, doesn't it?

He doesn't like for me to leave notes, but if that's the only way to communicate with him, then that's what will have to be done.

Yes, the "never my fault, it's all on you because you have a depressive disorder and that means your thinking is distorted," is a big source of conflict sometimes. He has HUGE blind spots when it comes to how his own behavior comes across to other people. It doesn't matter how many people tell him, for example, that his tone of voice was too harsh. He doesn't hear it, so he'll insist, "There was no tone of voice," and stick to it. He didn't *really* bite somebody's head off. It was everybody else's imagination. At the same time, I cannot be legitimately sad or angry for any reason. If I show the slightest bit of emotion, under any circumstances, he puts it all on the depression.

None of this is him being mean on purpose. I don't think he can see it when it's pointed out. It's like telling somebody who's colorblind, "No, that's supposed to be orange, not red," and they can't see the difference and don't know what you're talking about.

The rigid routine, alone, is not necessarily a sign of autism unless taken in conjunction with several other signs. However, from what you describe about his not really understanding other people's emotions and reactions, he could have Asperger's. It's really hard to tell without a professional assessment.

I do think that he should at least respect your reality. Even if he doesn't think something he said was offensive, and even if he didn't mean it to offend, other people still are entitled to their own response and emotions. His disagreement with their response, or lack of understanding of it, doesn't mean it's not valid.

So if you tell him that you feel such and such way about something, he shouldn't dismiss it just because his perspective is different. Have you told him it bothers you when he attributes your emotions to the depression? Does he not understand people are constantly experiencing emotions, whether they have a mood disorder or not?

Has he ever joined you in a session with your therapist? Maybe your therapist could explain this to him. Perhaps hearing it from a mental health professional would help him understand. Also (and I say this as someone who is currently depressed), support from one's spouse is really important. You need him to be in your corner, not dismissing you all the time.

I really hope he is willing to learn and understand where you're coming from. It sounds like you're working hard to treat your depression. He should likewise be trying to understand your emotional responses. I fully understand it may be a challenge to him, and that is possibly due to mild autism. But a refusal to even open his mind and hear you out - that's just cruel.

 

[Gwen-is-new!]

I do agree with Poppy - and it would be awesome if your husband was in your corner, and there for you, loving you like Christ loves the church, nurturing you, showing compassion not judgment or shame when you are depressed - but I DON'T think husbands are capable of this.

This is a reality I've had to accept - I talk to God about this a lot and the best answer I can get is that HE wants me to depend on HIM completely, and trust in HIS promises. Pray for girlfriends who are in your corner and watch HIM send them!

On a side note, are you getting enough direct sunlight? Moderate exercise? Magnesium? Funny shows and movies? Dark green veggies... ok, you get my point

 

[snoochface]

Sorry, but "husbands" (generalization!) are absolutely capable of this. Mine certainly is. He's not perfect, and I'm not the perfect Proverbs 31 wife either, but it is definitely God's standard for a reason, and many men are more than capable, or at least very willing to strive to be capable, of meeting that standard.

 

[Gwen-is-new!]

Sorry, but "husbands" (generalization!) are absolutely capable of this. Mine certainly is. He's not perfect, and I'm not the perfect Proverbs 31 wife either, but it is definitely God's standard for a reason, and many men are more than capable, or at least very willing to strive to be capable, of meeting that standard.

You are blessed I was just speaking from my personal observations and experience, and should have stated that.

 

[Poppyseed78]

To say all husbands aren't capable of compassion and nurturing is insulting to men. There are men who are very compassionate. Male nurses, social workers, and men involved in animal rescue are some examples. On the other hand, there are women who are cold and cruel, and I've had the displeasure of meeting a few.

I do think most people can work on developing their empathy. But it's a matter of wanting to do it.

 

[Gwen-is-new!]

To say all husbands aren't capable of compassion and nurturing is insulting to men.

Yes, it's just (bad) behavior

(staff edit)

 

[akmom]

It does sound a little rude. It also sounds like that is just his personality style, rather than a deliberate attempt to snub you. Knowing that, you can take it with a grain of salt. But telling him that he needs to acknowledge people when they talk to him is not a huge revelation, either. It's not like you are explaining to him some social intricacy that would be beyond him. It's more akin to reminding children to say "please" and "thank you," even if it's not accompanied by genuine feelings of gratitude. It's just a framework for polite conversation, and people feel more comfortable and respected in such a framework. So yes, your husband should adopt the habit of acknowledging people, and I think it is okay to tell him that.

If he blames your disorder for this perception, then it is acceptable to remind him that you are indeed more sensitive to these things in your current state, which is all the more reason for him to make the extra effort.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

Depression easing up. I have an appointment that was moved to sooner than it was. Four days from now, instead of two weeks.

I have to remind myself that my husband's brain apparently doesn't function well when he's any degree of tired. Sometimes I can say something as plain and direct as it gets, and he'll hear me wrong and misunderstand. He'll react to something I didn't say at all, and there's no use trying to clarify what I actually did say, because he'll only hear the same wrong thing again. But after he's had some sleep, I can say exactly what I said before in exactly the same words, and he'll get it. And then he may not even remember me trying to tell him before.

I wouldn't have thought he was that tired, since bill paying takes mental energy, and he was doing that. I guess maybe he does it on autopilot because it's so routine for him--but communication isn't. He probably thought, since he wasn't saying anything, he was just waiting for me to talk, so why wasn't I telling him what I had to say? But because he wasn't looking at me, and was still doing things with his hands, it didn't look to me like paying attention so he'd hear me.

So, the next morning, "I need you to look at me when I'm talking to you," sank in. I think.

Almost eight years married to him, and I'm still figuring these things out.

 

[Gwen-is-new!]

Sometimes I can say something as plain and direct as it gets, and he'll hear me wrong and misunderstand. He'll react to something I didn't say at all, and there's no use trying to clarify what I actually did say, because he'll only hear the same wrong thing again.

Lovebird - glad you are feeling better! I had to quote what you said because that's the story of my life, and we've been married 24 yrs. I bought this book yesterday, and it's already helped me a lot: Grace Filled Marriage by Tim Kimmel

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

Thanks for the book recommendation. I'll look into it.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

That is annoying. Even when I am super busy, especially multi tasking I still respond to my wife ""Sure" or "Yes"...etc. I mean its good he was "listening" but he should have let you know still. But like you said, you needed his full attention so he would focus on what you were saying. If someones talks to me and I am focused on something else I won't remember most of what they said.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

I really am not trying to harp or complain. I would like to get the issue resolved. I would talk to him directly, but that's exactly the problem. I can't. He doesn't listen, and/or doesn't get it. So, I have to get ideas for a solution from somewhere else.

Most of the time things are good between us, but when these things happen, oh boy do they happen, and it hurts me. A lot.

So this morning, a couple of hours before he was due to leave for work, the office chair we'd ordered arrived. It needed to be put together. I tried to do most of it myself, so he wouldn't have to worry about it, but I'm not very strong. So after I couldn't get the seat connected to the back, because the pieces were just so awkward that I couldn't hold them lined up long enough to get the screws into the holes, he took over. Then he started having the same difficulty, and after I saw him have a few tries, I got an idea. I thought if we put the seat face down on the dining room table (just a few feet away) and placed the back over top of it, we could see to line the holes up and hold it in place.

I got as far as, "Why don't we put the seat on the table--"
He cut me off with a sharp, "No!"
I answered, "I love it when you don't even let me get an idea out of my mouth before you shoot it down."

Grant you, sarcasm mode probably wasn't the best choice right then. I obviously don't "love" it.

And the explanation was that he can't concentrate on two things at once, and I shouldn't interrupt him when he's trying to get something done. The thing is, it was not "two things at once." It's not like I was trying to ask him what he wants for supper tonight, or anything like that. I was giving him pertinent information *about the task at hand,* that would ease up a lot of that frustration if he'd listen. It's exactly the same principle as, let's say I'm driving and I'm about to make a lane change. The way is not clear. I forgot to check my blind spot. He tries to tell me, but I cut him off with, "Don't distract me while I'm driving! I have to concentrate on what I'm doing!" What do you think is going to happen?

Following this, another attempt to get the screws in place failed because the pieces wouldn't stay lined up. I tried again to tell him my idea, and was able to complete my sentence. We took it to the table as I suggested, and guess what? It solved the problem.

But I hate being treated like this. I have worked hard in therapy trying to build up enough self-esteem to feel like I'm worth being listened to and taken seriously. Then things like this happen. I can't get him to understand. Does anybody know a way I can try explaining it?

 

[Poppyseed78]

I'm sorry, I would feel hurt too. I honestly don't know how to communicate with someone like that. I don't know if it's a mild autism, as you suspect, or just stubbornness. It would make me very hesitant to attempt any tasks together. I would be walking on eggshells trying to avoid a scene like you had earlier. That's probably not a helpful solution, though.

The only thing I think could help is asking him to join you in therapy for a few sessions. But what seems so obviously relevant to you - i.e., your suggestion to put the seat on the dining room table - to him just sounds like distracting "noise". I don't know how to work around that if this is just how he's wired. On the other hand, he could at least not snap at you, and hear you out.

I don't know. What I do know is that you ARE worth being listened to and taken seriously, and his rude behavior is about him, not you. He sounds pretty selfish, to be honest. Your ideas, feelings, and preferences matter just as much as his. It sounds like you've been very patient in accommodating his quirks. He should be making an effort to be kind and considerate in return.

 

[Gwen-is-new!]

Lovebird - I truly can relate to all your scenarios because I've experienced them myself with my husband.

I can tell you what I would do (and currently do) - I let the Lord use these times to grow me into Christ-likeness, I view it as a chance to practice patience, mercy, and grace!

Phil 4:9
What you have learned and received and heard and seen in me—practice these things, and the God of peace will be with you.

I trust the Lord to convict my husband of any mistreatment, and I assume my husband already knows (even though he doesn't say I'm sorry, etc) that he acted badly. I pray to the Lord to transform Him (prune).

If I start to take it personal or find myself in self-pity (often), I force myself to get my eyes off me/husband and onto the great ALMIGHTY. I remind myself that my identity, purpose, worth, and security come from relationship with Jesus Christ, and life goes on (my peace and joy return, bitterness and unforgiveness subside).

We are all pretty selfish at times, aren't we? Focus on the good things in your man, and maybe write them down. You stated you struggle with depression, and the enemy would love to take you down that road, and keep you down that road - praying you don't let him! I believe it's spiritual warfare.