This is what happens when you oppose same-sex marriage in Maryland...

Wolseley

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You may see that coming, but what is already here? We have the Matthew Shepard murder, the WBC, the very high rate of suicides among gay teens, a Christian pastor urging his flock to beat their sons if they act gay, Harvey Milk's murder, the Stonewall raid, the bombing of a gay nightclub, etc...

But how many of those crimes were perpetrated by practicing Catholics?

We can worry about future injustice, but lets work on the injustice we have here now. A hypothetical situation shouldn't be fussed about too much when there is obvious work to be done to make sure we aren't focusing too much on hating the sin and not enough on loving the sinner.

I do not advocate that homosexuals should be abused. However, I also do not advocate that the definition of marriage should be changed simply to accomodate their specific deviancy, either.
 
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AMDG

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Didn't show up in my bulletin, had an insert about Vatican II. That aside, I don't see how it relates to violence and discrimination against gays. Nothing in the part of my post you quoted had to do with marriage. Maybe you meant to reply to something different.

Perhaps you forgot to read the words of the Bishops "redefining marriage" and the examples they gave of actual actions taken against those who support traditional marriage? That's what we were talking about. And that's what one of our members was talking about when he said that it was "back to the catacombs". Your post seemed to state that only those wanting to redefine marriage have suffered descrimination and the fact that those supporting traditional marriage can only point to "what might happen"--not what *has* happened.

BTW there have been reports that some of those so-called "violence towards gays" was simply made up and blamed on supporters of traditional marriage in an effort to create sympathy for the deviant behavior. However we know for certain about the violence the same-sex crew have toward those who support traditional marriage.
 
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MikeK

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BTW there have been reports that some of those so-called "violence towards gays" was simply made up and blamed on supporters of traditional marriage in an effort to create sympathy for the deviant behavior. However we know for certain about the violence the same-sex crew have toward those who support traditional marriage.

Oooh, fun game time!

You name every person you can think of that was murdered or severely maimed for being in favor of traditional marriage, and I'll name those who were killed or severely maimed because they were gay. I bet the totals will be really close, right? I'll even pledge $50 to the Romney campaign if you can tie me. You go first.


(anticipating crickets)
 
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LoAmmi

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-In Vermont this summer, an innkeeper was forced to pay $30,000 to settle a lawsuit brought by two women for refusing to host the couple's wedding reception. The inn no longer hosts weddings or receptions.
I don't understand this statement. Did the women win the lawsuit and thus the inn was compelled to pay or did the inn settle with the women and agree to pay of their own accord?
-In Canada, where same-se marriage has been legalized, Roman Catholic sportscaster Damian Goddard was fired from his job for expressing support for traditional marriage.
Do you support at-will states in the United States?
-Accusations that it is "anti-gay" have been leveled a Bhick-Fil-A because its founder offered a personal statement supporting traditional marriage. Mayors in several major cities denounced the company for its "discriminatory views" (no discrimination was done by the company) and have threatened to prevent the company from operating in their cities.
So what? Just as the founder has a right to speak his mind, those that disagree with what he said get to speak their. Yes, the mayors are wrong. But that is a different issue and I am not aware of any place where they have actually been prevented from opening.

Freedom is a two-way street. One side does not get freedom while the other side does not.
-In August a gunman entered the offices of the Family Research Council in Washington, D.C. with intent to kill staff members because the organization defends marriage as a union between a man and a woman. The Family Research Council has been branded by one same-sex marriage advocacy group as a "hate group" because of its suport for traditional marriage.
You are describing a crime by one person. If I find a member of the Roman Catholic church that shot someone for a reason similar, does that mean that the Church is against that group and threatening their liberty?
How does redefining marriage threaten religious liberty?
-A Methodist organization in New Jersey lost its state tax exemption for refusing to make their facilities available to a same-sex couple for a civil union ceremony.
Similar situation as the other one before. New Jersey has a law that if land is made available to the public, people cannot be discriminated against including for sexual orientation. This was a New Jersey law. I'm sorry that the Methodist organization did not know the law, but ignorance of the law is no defense.
-Forced to choose between their ministries and Catholic teaching, Catholic Charities in Boston and Washington D.C. closed their adoption agencies.
This one I am willing to see as valid.
-In Canada, where same-sex marriage was being debated, Father Alphonse de Valk, a Basilian priest, was investigated by the Canadian Human Rights Commission for a "hate act" after quoting extensively from the Bible, the Catechism of the Catholic Church and Pope John Paul II's encyclicals to defend traditional marriage.
This is stupid, but I don't know Canada's free speech laws. A lot of countries differ greatly.
-In Alberta, Canada Bishop Fred Henry was subject to a human rights complaint for stating in a pastoral letter the position of the Catholic Church on same-sex marriage.
Again, Canada. I don't know enough.
How does redefining marriage threaten the good of societ?
-In Brazil, where civil unions are legal, a partnership between three partners was resgistered earlier this year. After review of the law, it was determined that no legal impediments existed to prevent their union--a union for which no word existed in Portuguese.
-The California Legislature has pased a bill to legalize familes of three or more parents.
-In Spain, where same-sex marriage has been legalized, birth certificates substitute the terms "Progenitor A" and "Progenitor B" for "Mother" and "Father"
Please explain how all of these threaten the "good of society". That is a very vague but ominous term.
 
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Needing_Grace

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Oooh, fun game time!

You name every person you can think of that was murdered or severely maimed for being in favor of traditional marriage, and I'll name those who were killed or severely maimed because they were gay. I bet the totals will be really close, right? I'll even pledge $50 to the Romney campaign if you can tie me. You go first.


(anticipating crickets)

Something tells me that your $50 are safe.
 
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WarriorAngel

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When does signing a petition at Church when you're off the clock get you put on leave?

Her personal views would not affect her on the job. Thats what politicians say constantly.

The tolerant seem to be taking the form of big brother & removing freedom of speech & thought.

Her personal beliefs do not prevent her from doing her job. And her job should not dictate to her personal beliefs inside the Church.
:amen:
 
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TheOtherHockeyMom

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Bet if she has a strong union, she would be able to fight to keep her job.

I do have to say, if we are going to agree with the standard that one's personal beliefs should not disqualify them from a job, as long as they don't demonstrably interfere with their ability to perform the job, we better be consistent.

A person shouldn't lose their job at the TSA for supporting CAIR, right?
 
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LoAmmi

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Bet if she has a strong union, she would be able to fight to keep her job.

I do have to say, if we are going to agree with the standard that one's personal beliefs should not disqualify them from a job, as long as they don't demonstrably interfere with their ability to perform the job, we better be consistent.

A person shouldn't lose their job at the TSA for supporting CAIR, right?

I don't get one thing. The same people that fight against unions and embrace at-will jobs get upset when people are fired or put on leave for a reason they disagree with. That is what at-will jobs are, right?
 
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AMDG

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Just in case you don't get it--unions are about giving money to their cronies, not about helping. The dues are forcefully taken (even if the family might better spend the money on such luxories like food, gas, shelter, medical care) and given to political parties (seems the Dems have really profitted.) Oh, and if judging by my son-in-laws union (the one who is not getting enough hours) the unions can tell you when to work and where to shop.

I know, I know, it's anecdotal, but we saw it in Wisconsin. The unions were stopped from taking people's money (so the union bosses could line their pockets and bankrupt the state) and the people got better educators (bad teachers weren't protected so the children finally were able to learn) and the people who got their own money to use as they saw fit and weren't forced to fund ideas that they might not even hold were really happy about the reforms.

Since I'm a tad older than most of you and because of my husband's military service, I've lived in both "right-to-work" states and "closed-union" states, I have more anecdotes and I'm afraid they all sort of come down on the side of "right-to-work" states.
 
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LoAmmi

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Since I'm a tad older than most of you and because of my husband's military service, I've lived in both "right-to-work" states and "closed-union" states, I have more anecdotes and I'm afraid they all sort of come down on the side of "right-to-work" states.

and my father has always done better in places with Unions. It's almost like different people have different experiences at different places and times. How weird.
 
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Needing_Grace

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LoAmmi said:
and my father has always done better in places with Unions. It's almost like different people have different experiences at different places and times. How weird.

It's an alternate universe thing.

Sent from my iPhone using CF
 
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AMDG

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It's an alternate universe thing.

The sad thing is that we're all living in the same world--if not country. That's how I was able to say (in that one thread) that we have the Dems are predominately on the Northeastern coast and the Western coast and then we have the ROC (the rest of the country.)
 
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Fantine

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TheOtherHockeyMom

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The sad thing is that we're all living in the same world--if not country. That's how I was able to say (in that one thread) that we have the Dems are predominately on the Northeastern coast and the Western coast and then we have the ROC (the rest of the country.)

So do you think the employers are in the right if it is right to work state?

How's that list coming?
 
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Needing_Grace

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I guess what goes around comes around....

Gays have certainly been targeted and scapegoated by Christians over the centuries. Look at the Westboro Baptist Church today.

Sowing and reaping? As you measure, so shall it be measured back to you?

That sort of thing?
 
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Texan40

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I guess what goes around comes around....

Gays have certainly been targeted and scapegoated by Christians over the centuries. Look at the Westboro Baptist Church today.

You mean a group that instigates violence so they can then sue over it? They are not "true believers" but mere opportunists.

Using aggressive terrorist tactics to achieve a goal is not good regardless of your platform. It show the selfish nature of those involved. In this some "rights" groups are no different than Westboro.
 
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Comprehender

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SINCE WHEN DO SEXUAL FETTISHES EQUAL "RIGHTS"?????

Wake up people!
This "diversity" or minority group thing doesn't apply to sexual fettishes.
Science & common sense tells us that we are not born with sexual fettishes - they are learned, sometimes by uncontrollable issues like sexual abuse, but still they are learned.
Civil rights were about equality, no matter the race... Race is obvious by looking at someone & is not something that changes based on feeling or action... Homosexual fettishes are within one's psychology & thus not obvious on appearance & are based on feeling & behavior.
Rights CANNOT be based on behavior, otherwise our society is going down.

The homosexual community is attempting to use their sexual fettishes as a way to push their fettishes or other desires on others, including children in public schools where same-sex marriage has been legalized.

How can a truth-seeking Christian are falling for such obvious lies as the homosexual agenda pushes?!
What benefit does caving in to sexual fettishes, do for our society - except undermine many moral & religious values???

Ex gay-rights leader & ex homosexual, Michael Glatze said, "Homosexuality is death & I choose life."
Do not think for a moment that by supporting sexual fettishes, you are showing love, you are not - you are supporting emotional, spiritual & often physical death.
 
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