Theology school

[Goodbook]

Would there be some theologians that people would rate above others. I mean anyone can comment on the Bible...

The ones that are well known like Martin Luther, John Calvin who then found whole separate movements...but then I suppose there's others that had influence like Darby, Scofield etc. However I think its so easy to lose perspective when you rely on commentaries. After all, some people might focus on one bit of scripture to the exclusion of others and make a whole doctrine of it, like Luther saying justification by faith, but then totally ignoring James letter saying faith without works is dead.

 

[Paidiske]

What I tend to do, as a starting point (if I can) is get hold of a type of commentary that's called a reception history.

What this does is not just give you one person's take on the text, but compiles the opinions of scholars over the centuries; so a good reception history will tell you about the early church fathers, the medieval scholars, the reformers, as well as modern scholarship (just to give you an idea). And that gives you some idea of what the important ways of thinking about that text have been over time and in different cultures.

 

[High Fidelity]

I, as well as many others, would recommend Wayne Grudem's Systematic Theology.

Most seminaries I've seen recommend it as excellent preparatory reading as well as supplementary reading throughout.

As far as Calvin and Luther are concerned; I like them both. You can get Luther's complete sermons in a book set for around $80 and I've loved every part of it so far.

Calvin's Commentaries are a lot more expensive because they're so sought after and seldom printed, so you'll be lucky to find a set under $4-600. If a local seminary/library has a set, though, they're also excellent.

As is to be expected for the reasons you pointed out(that despite having a common goal, they both founded quite radically different movements) there will be differences of opinion and some things the reader disagrees with, but it is nonetheless good, in my opinion, to have that breadth of opinion to meditate on and consider in your own studies and observations to help draw your own conclusion.
That is also quite an important part of the academic process and especially so in theology; giving both sides of an argument equal chance to at least make a case.

 

[Goodbook]

A reception history? Never heard of it.

I think someone donated systematic theology to our church library, so may have a look at that one day. Its a big fat book right?

When you study greek and hebrew, do you just learn words or actually the whole language and how to speak it or just whats written in the Bible? I know of strongs concordance but never really hear my pastor talk about the hebrew or greek meanings as he just uses CEV and he always says 'text' instead of scripture.

With the Bible college/seminaries do they have a preference on the Bible translation? What translation would be most commonly used? I'm not sure what Calvin or Luther would have used but since they are german and french they would have used those translations of the Bible. Or maybe they did know greek and hebrew?

 

[Paidiske]

When you study greek and hebrew, do you just learn words or actually the whole language and how to speak it or just whats written in the Bible? I know of strongs concordance but never really hear my pastor talk about the hebrew or greek meanings as he just uses CEV and he always says 'text' instead of scripture.

With the Bible college/seminaries do they have a preference on the Bible translation? What translation would be most commonly used? I'm not sure what Calvin or Luther would have used but since they are german and french they would have used those translations of the Bible. Or maybe they did know greek and hebrew?

For Greek and Hebrew, you have to learn more than just words; you have to learn the grammar, which is quite different from English grammar. So I'm not sure I'd say you learn the "whole language" - in that you really only learn what you need to, to understand the Scriptures - but you learn more than word lists, if that makes sense?

I seldom say "In the Greek..." in my sermons but that doesn't mean I haven't looked at and thought about the Greek in preparing. I figure most of my congregation don't need or want to hear a lot of detailed language stuff, but sometimes I need to look at it to get my head around what's happening in the passage. I didn't learn Hebrew, so there I have to rely on what other people have said about it.

Where I studied, the preferred translation was the NRSV, but certainly when I did Biblical units we were encouraged to look at other translations as well. From memory my Old Testament lecturer quite liked the New Jerusalem Bible.

Luther prepared a German translation of the Scriptures from the original languages. Jewish publishers had produced a printed Hebrew version of the OT as early as 1494, and Luther had access to one of these in preparing his translation. The first published edition of the Greek New Testament was printed in 1516, so both Luther and Calvin would have had access to that as well. I understand that Calvin also read both Hebrew and Greek.

 

[Goodbook]

Baptist churches are neither calvinist nor lutheran in my experience preachers never mention what they say although in presybterian churches calvinist influence is heavy and they constantly talk about predestination. I've never attended a lutheran church.

I was looking at my local bible college and surprised to read there were courses on anglicanism, particularly anglican traditions. I thought it was meant to be non-denominational. And they had a 'be a student for a day' day actually was today, but I had other commitments!

I notice there aren't any papers on healing, miracles, which is a big part of ministry. I guess its something you can't actually study. Or testimonies, or lives of saints. Theres all these other things you can study that are offered but those seem to be noticeably absent. Also hebrew customs and traditions esp in Jesus time, or biblical archaeology.

I do suppose most that study theology would go on to be pastors, or maybe write books on theology or go on missions. Or teach. But Jesus was very hands on, are there also practical components to it eg, would you fast or go homeless for a week as part of your practicum. It would be interesting to go on a field trip because when Jesus did that they went fishing.

 

[Paidiske]

I did practical components; I did field placements in a cathedral, several parishes, and a social welfare agency. I also did Clinical Pastoral Education, working as part of the pastoral care team of a hospital. They were an enormous part of my learning. I think our only field trip as such was the day we went to the funeral director so they could take us through everything that happens from their end in preparing for and carrying out funerals. I know far more than I ever wanted to about embalming after that!

We did have lectures on things like healing and miracles, but usually as part of another topic. I got a bit of archaeology, and Hebrew customs, but again, more to illustrate other topics (so the archaeology might come in to discussing the development of worship, and what we have found of very early church buildings, for example). Testimonies/lives of saints - I guess that got covered a fair bit in church history.

I get the feeling from your posts that what you're really looking for is something that will enhance and enrich your lived faith in day to day life, and you're trying to work out if formal study will do that for you? I think it might, but not immediately. As a student I felt like a lot of what I was doing was going to bear fruit a long way into the future.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Baptist churches are neither calvinist nor lutheran in my experience preachers never mention what they say although in presybterian churches calvinist influence is heavy and they constantly talk about predestination. I've never attended a lutheran church.

I was looking at my local bible college and surprised to read there were courses on anglicanism, particularly anglican traditions. I thought it was meant to be non-denominational. And they had a 'be a student for a day' day actually was today, but I had other commitments!

I notice there aren't any papers on healing, miracles, which is a big part of ministry. I guess its something you can't actually study. Or testimonies, or lives of saints. Theres all these other things you can study that are offered but those seem to be noticeably absent. Also hebrew customs and traditions esp in Jesus time, or biblical archaeology.

I do suppose most that study theology would go on to be pastors, or maybe write books on theology or go on missions. Or teach. But Jesus was very hands on, are there also practical components to it eg, would you fast or go homeless for a week as part of your practicum. It would be interesting to go on a field trip because when Jesus did that they went fishing.

If you are interested, here is a link where you can link to Daily Chapel Services; 5 different liturgies each wee: http://www.ctsfw.edu/page.aspx?pid=281

 

[High Fidelity]

Baptist churches are neither calvinist nor lutheran in my experience preachers never mention what they say although in presybterian churches calvinist influence is heavy and they constantly talk about predestination. I've never attended a lutheran church.

Categorically a Baptist church will likely either be theologically Calvinist or Arminian. In Arminian churches you won't really notice anything different to what most churches teach, but in Calvinist-leaning churches you will notice the difference in theology and language used.

Presbyterianism is based around the work of Calvin and typically hold to the Westminster Confession of Faith; basically scholastic Calvinism.

Reformed Baptists, myself included, typically hold to a similar confession of faith called The 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith(or commonly Second London Confession of Faith).

I notice there aren't any papers on healing, miracles, which is a big part of ministry. I guess its something you can't actually study. Or testimonies, or lives of saints. Theres all these other things you can study that are offered but those seem to be noticeably absent. Also hebrew customs and traditions esp in Jesus time, or biblical archaeology.

It depends on how you approach gifts. I imagine most colleges, unless they're Pentecostal/Charismatic, won't address healing or miracles unless it's within the context of the New Testament and Apostolic era.

As far as the archaeology and other subjects go, a lot of it comes down to the individual college/seminary and the resources they have available. In order to offer those courses they not only need to establish a curriculum for it, they also need commitments from multiple professors that will stay and teach it. Things like that are quite 'specialist', if you will, and I imagine a luxury typically only available to the larger, more established colleges and seminaries.

I do suppose most that study theology would go on to be pastors, or maybe write books on theology or go on missions. Or teach. But Jesus was very hands on, are there also practical components to it eg, would you fast or go homeless for a week as part of your practicum. It would be interesting to go on a field trip because when Jesus did that they went fishing.

Well God only had one Son and He made Him a preacher

Whether one intends to pursue ministry or not, when we consider our call as Christians to spread the gospel, a formal education in theology can certainly be beneficial! Especially in an increasingly secular age where even lay Christians will be pressed for difficult answers.

 

[Goodbook]

Yes if only it didnt cost so much. But i suppose you could get scholarships.

 

[High Fidelity]

Maybe look at some distance learning places. A lot of those are cheaper because they don't have a lot of the overheads physical colleges do.

 

[Goodbook]

lol but the bible college is just up the road from me. I go past it nearly every day. maybe I will just sit in a lecture one day to see what its like. The only thing was, I remember this bible college being quite snobby, I don't know what it is, about people just wandering in. And one time I spoke with the librarian at the desk and he flat out told me he wasn't a believer. I also saw students hanging round smoking. So I don't really have good memories of going there.

Maybe after I've finished my other course I will check it out.

 

[High Fidelity]

lol but the bible college is just up the road from me. I go past it nearly every day. maybe I will just sit in a lecture one day to see what its like. The only thing was, I remember this bible college being quite snobby, I don't know what it is, about people just wandering in. And one time I spoke with the librarian at the desk and he flat out told me he wasn't a believer. I also saw students hanging round smoking. So I don't really have good memories of going there.

Maybe after I've finished my other course I will check it out.

In my opinion, if they're sincere about their ministry then I'd be surprised if they told you that you can't sit in on a class or two.

 

[Cappadocious]

Would there be some theologians that people would rate above others. I mean anyone can comment on the Bible...

Augustine of Hippo, John Chrysostom, Basil the Great. More for your pastoral theology.

 

[Greg J.]

I think it is well worth a serious examination of why one wants a degree in anything. Talk about your reasons with those who have done it (as is being discussed here). A degree many not exactly give a person what they think it would give them.

The priceless value of a formally trained person (e.g., a pastor) is that the pastor has the opportunity to learn concrete boundaries on what is, what isn't, and what may be of God. The learned boundaries include the wisdom of many experienced pastors applying the Word as best they can, and has been reduced to understandable rules to follow when preaching, giving advice, or interpreting Scripture. While the boundaries will not be perfect, they hopefully will err on the side of not contradicting the truth or leading people astray in some other way.

In contrast, someone that hasn't learned concrete boundaries from people, has their boundaries defined by both where they are in their walk and their understanding of the Truth without the foundation of many experiences of applying the Word in real-life situations.

For example, the formally trained person may have been instructed to never tell an individual they are going to hell (and hopefully have studied enough to understand why that is). It is an easy-to-understand rule to keep the pastor from doing a whole array of things, even though it may be technically incorrect some of the time. Those that were not formally trained and don't have the rule may be prone to say all kinds of things with subtle (or not so subtle) consequences because they are understood to be consistent with Scripture.

Being accountable on earth for what one says (such as an employed pastor) can cause much different things to come out of one's mouth (or typing fingers) than if one is not accountable on earth.

For deciding on what to write a thesis on, having the help of a knowledgeable advisor (or three) seems to me to be essential, especially when doing it on the most studied subject in the history of the world. Your advisor needs to be able to say "that's already been done" as well as "you need to read these related papers first before deciding." Part of a Ph.D. is becoming enough of a researcher to be able to find everything (within reason) that's already been written related to your topic—and reading it to understand it.

Approaching one's Ph.D. this way is A LOT of work. It also makes you into a scholar on your area of expertise. Something to be well-prepared for is how learning a lot of people's perspectives on God may dilute your faith instead of clarify it. (It's possible for some people to approach it so this doesn't happen.)

What is the purpose of a thesis one might write?

Is it so you know God better?
Know about God better?
Help others know about God better?
Have a good knowledge of what other people's thoughts are about God?
Understand what people have historically believed about God?

A lot of the thesis titles I've heard don't indicate anyone is going to know anything about God better as a result of reading it. This is not always bad. Understanding the experiences of other church leaders will be priceless for someone who is/will be a church leader. But it should be consciously understood what the connection to Jesus Christ is in how one spends years of their time.

Browsing a topical Bible may stimulate thesis ideas.

 

[Goodbook]

I do think its good to learn from your elders and people that have experience out in the field. i cant imagine a pastor going in the deep end without any kind of training. They would burn out very quickly without a good biblical foundation and if that means shutting themselves away and studying the bible for at least 3 years solid then thats a good thing isnt it? It will bear much fruit later.

 

[Goodbook]

Thats why I thought thesis would be more applicable if they studied peoples real life experiences now rather than just what people in the past wrote about God.

Like you could do prayer experiments. Have one group pray and see how long it takes for God to answer, another group pray but in a slightly different way, and then a control group that doesnt pray at all.

 

[Paidiske]

I do think its good to learn from your elders and people that have experience out in the field. i cant imagine a pastor going in the deep end without any kind of training. They would burn out very quickly without a good biblical foundation and if that means shutting themselves away and studying the bible for at least 3 years solid then thats a good thing isnt it? It will bear much fruit later.

Mmm. I actually think the being shut away approach is a very unhealthy model. The model I've been advocating for in my context is one where you combine studying alongside actual work in ministry; where you put what you learn into practice as you go, and you have supervision and support as you encounter various types of issues for the first time.

It's not just about having a "biblical foundation," it's about being able to integrate scriptural truth with the real life of the church. And you don't learn to integrate when you're shut away.

Sorry, that's sort of off topic, but I do think it's important.

 

[Goodbook]

Well what I mean is..like Paul did studying 14 years before he embarked on missionary journeys. He probably spent a lot of that in prayer. And he might have been working as a tent maker all that time, but he really prepared well before he started planting all those churches. Even Timothy study to shew himself approved. I don't think Paul said to Timothy oh you have to earn God's approval by working without studying. And studying does require concentration.
esp 2 Timothy 2:4

The first letter to Timothy mentions so many that started out as wanting to be teachers who turned aside to false doctrine eg some women, esp young widows, husbands that had more than one wife, ones that didn't know how to look after their own families, ones that were inexperienced, drinkers, ones that taught for cash, gossips, vain babblers and storytellers, he even names some in the second letter - Phygellus and Hermogenes, Hymeneaus and Philetus, Demas, Alexander the coppersmith...

 

[Paidiske]

Oh, I'm not anti-study, not at all! But I think the model of ministry formation which shuts people away in pious hothouses does them little good when they emerge to minister in a context for which they are extremely poorly prepared.