theological problem with the "sons of god" being human

[Calminian]

This is a simple question for those that think the sons of god of genesis 6 were human. How did they obtain divine sonship apart from Jesus Christ??

This is a real theological problem that I've stumbled upon recently. I've not heard it discussed before in all the usual arguments surrounding this topic. You often here about theological problems with concepts of angles, but this issue seems much bigger. If you believe the sons of god were sons of adam, isn't that undermining basic new testament soteriology?

Let me expand. There are two types of beings called sons of God in the Bible. 1) Those directly created by God, such as angels (Job 1:6, 2:1, 38:7), and Adam (Luke 3:38). 2) sons of adam (humans) who have become new creations through Jesus Christ (2Cor. 5:17).

Gal. 3:26 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus,

John 1:12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—​

Now those are the only 2 categories I've seen, but there must be a 3rd category if these were humans in Genesis 6. For Christ had not yet come, and yet these sons of adam were still referred to as sons of god. Thus they must have been new creations. If they were not angels, how did they receive this title apart from Christ.

Now there is one passage I should preemptively discuss.

Hos. 1:10 “Yet the Israelites will be like the sand on the seashore, which cannot be measured or counted. In the place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’​

But notice that this is a prophetic statement about a future calling. "They will be called......" This is a foretelling of the day jews and gentiles will become sons of God through Jesus Christ. Paul quoted this verse in Romans acknowledging the fulfillment of this prophesy (Rom. 9:26).

But there is no future implication in the Genesis 6 passage. They are called sons of god in the present (of that time).

If anyone has a response to this one aspect of the debate please let me know. I know there are other issues often talked about on this, but I just want to focus on this one for this thread. I don't want to hear about angels being spirits or the book of enoch, or the angels that visited Abraham, or any of that other stuff. Just explain how these men in Gen. 6 received the title of "sons of god" apart from Christ.

 

[ChetSinger]

I agree completely.

• Adam could be called a son of God because God directly created him.
• We can be called sons of God because of God's new creation in us.
• Some of the angelic beings can be called "sons of God" because God directly created them.

I see no room in Genesis 6 for the "sons of God" to be men, which would imply they were additional directly-created men.

 

[juvenissun]

I agree completely.

• Adam could be called a son of God because God directly created him.
• We can be called sons of God because of God's new creation in us.
• Some of the angelic beings can be called "sons of God" because God directly created them.

I see no room in Genesis 6 for the "sons of God" to be men, which would imply they were additional directly-created men.

We are called sons of God because God allows us to call Him Father. That is the only reason and it only happens to Christians.

Angel can NOT call God Father. God is not their Father. God is their creator.

The use of word sons in Gen 6 should be an exception (or a different use). It is a view from human, not from God. God will definitely NOT allow them (whoever are they) to call Him Father. I still think angels is the best interpretation for that term.

(side point as supporting argument):
And we should think: Why do they want to come to the earth (become human) and marry to human? What is the (huge) advantage to them in doing that? Bad angels are not stupid. They ARE seeking something better. [That is why God wants to "kill" them all, so this kind of thing won't happen again].

 

[Calminian]

Thanks, juvenissun.

We are called sons of God because God allows us to call Him Father. That is the only reason and it only happens to Christians.

Angel can NOT call God Father. God is not their Father. God is their creator.

The use of word sons in Gen 6 should be an exception (or a different use). It is a view from human, not from God. God will definitely NOT allow them (whoever are they) to call Him Father. I still think angels is the best interpretation for that term.

(side point as supporting argument):
And we should think: Why do they want to come to the earth (become human) and marry to human? What is the (huge) advantage to them in doing that? Bad angels are not stupid. They ARE seeking something better. [That is why God wants to "kill" them all, so this kind of thing won't happen again].

Your argument seems to be that they really weren't sons of god. But scripture calls them sons of God, in fact the narrator of the story calls them this.

In fact even God himself calls them this.

Job 1:6 One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them.

Job 2:1 On another day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them to present himself before him.

Job 38:7 while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels shouted for joy?​

You'll notice here in the NIV, the translators just go ahead and translate the phrase angels, but it's the same basic phrase, sons of god and without question it is a reference to angels. And in this last passage in Job, it is actually God speaking, calling them sons of God. How can you deny they are sons of god from God's perspective, when God himself calls them sons?

There's also another reference to "sons of the mighty" referring to angels.

Psa. 89:6 For who in the skies above can compare with the LORD?
Who is like the LORD among the heavenly beings? ​

The term translated heavenly beings in the NIV, is literally "sons of the mighty." Same basic idea as "Mighty" is obviously a reference to God.

Now angels are not begotten sons as Christ was. Notice the language in the Hebrews passage.

Heb. 1:5 For to which of the angels did He ever say:
“You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You”​

The hebrew word here for begotten is gennao meaning to be born through a woman. This is something unique of the Son Jesus. He truly is the only begotten Son of God.

But angels are sons, just as Adam was a son. The difference is, Christ is the firstborn Son, and only begotten Son (born of a woman directly from God).

Now you may have a point on the "father" issue. That's very interesting and I hadn't considered that before. You may be right that angels don't call God father, even though God calls them sons. This may be a right exclusive to Christ and to those in Christ. Adam is never recorded calling God, Father either, even though he is called the son of God. It's an interesting point.

Now just to comment on your side question, "why would they want to come to earth?" but that's beside the point. I could speculate on some reasons, but it would just be speculation, and it detracts from the main point. How is it, these were called sons of god, if they were merely human?

 

[yeshuasavedme]

The Hebrew language says -transliterated: "ben Elohym laqach bath Adam".
"sons of God took daughters of Adam".
The passage leaves no room for any sons of Seth etc, theory.
sons God daughters Adam.

So believing the Scripture does not even leave an argument for the sons of God being anything other than the sons of God taking daughters of Adam as wives.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

 

[Calminian]

Okay, you brought it up...
The difference is that Adam is made male and female [Genesis 5:2] in order to bring forth the human being "stones/sons" [Malachi 2:15] in order to build the first Temple made without hands for the Glory to indwell.

No, that's not quite right, and unfortunately way off-topic. I don't want to go there in this thread. Adam is a term used of all beings that come from Adam, and has a range of implied meanings, including mankind, which many translations use. Eve also came from Adam, in that God made her from part of him, namely his rib. Therefore in a general sense, Adam can at times refer to humanity of both genders, since both genders come from Adam.

If you want to start a new thread of the use of the hebrew term, adam in Genesis I'd be happy to participate. I'm just politely asking you not to expand on this in this thread.

 

[Calminian]

The Hebrew language says -transliterated: "ben Elohym laqach bath Adam".
"sons of God took daughters of Adam".
The passage leaves no room for any sons of Seth etc, theory.
sons God daughters Adam.

So believing the Scripture does not even leave an argument for the sons of God being anything other than the sons of God taking daughters of Adam as wives.

I appreciate the point. There's so much focus on the term sons of god, many miss the significance of the term daughters of adam. The writer didn't use the hebrew word for woman, ishshah, but daughters of adam, to contrast it with sons of god.

Still off-topic though, as I'm just looking for an argument for the sons of god being human.

 

[ChetSinger]

One reason I don't think the "sons of God" were humans is that in Job 38, they existed and were shouting with joy when God laid the foundation of the earth. That's before the creation of Adam.

Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell me, if you have understanding.

Who determined its measurements—surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it?

On what were its bases sunk, or who laid its cornerstone,

when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

I'm presuming, of course, that the term "sons of God" has the same theological meaning in both Genesis 6 and Job 38. But that's what I'll do until I can persuaded otherwise.

 

[disciple1938]

I'm on board with angels and not men. Pretty obvious really.

 

[Aman777]

Calminian;62609928]This is a simple question for those that think the sons of god of genesis 6 were human. How did they obtain divine sonship apart from Jesus Christ??

This is a real theological problem that I've stumbled upon recently. I've not heard it discussed before in all the usual arguments surrounding this topic. You often here about theological problems with concepts of angles, but this issue seems much bigger. If you believe the sons of god were sons of adam, isn't that undermining basic new testament soteriology?

Dear Cal, The sons of God were NOT human, and they did Not descend from Adam. The sons of God were "natural" people whose origin was in the water, on the 5th Day. Genesis 1:21 This verse tells us that ALL living creatures that "moveth" came from the water. Science agrees and the cells within our body cannot live apart from liquid water.

Cal:>>Let me expand. There are two types of beings called sons of God in the Bible. 1) Those directly created by God, such as angels (Job 1:6, 2:1, 38:7), and Adam (Luke 3:38). 2) sons of adam (humans) who have become new creations through Jesus Christ (2Cor. 5:17).

Gal. 3:26 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus,

John 1:12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—
​

Now those are the only 2 categories I've seen, but there must be a 3rd category if these were humans in Genesis 6. For Christ had not yet come, and yet these sons of adam were still referred to as sons of god. Thus they must have been new creations. If they were not angels, how did they receive this title apart from Christ.

The sons of God were innocent as are those who have been born Spiritually. The sons of God were innocent because they did NOT know good and evil. Since they were "created", it means that like other innocent creatures, they will be in heaven. As we travel into Space, we will find the "sons of God" wherever we find liquid water...BUT...we will not find other humans because there was but ONE Ark. ONLY the descendants of Adam are humans. ONLY those who have been born Spiritually are counted as innocent as were the sons of God.

Cal:>>Now there is one passage I should preemptively discuss.

Hos. 1:10 “Yet the Israelites will be like the sand on the seashore, which cannot be measured or counted. In the place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’
​

Cal:>>But notice that this is a prophetic statement about a future calling. "They will be called......" This is a foretelling of the day jews and gentiles will become sons of God through Jesus Christ. Paul quoted this verse in Romans acknowledging the fulfillment of this prophesy (Rom. 9:26).

But there is no future implication in the Genesis 6 passage. They are called sons of god in the present (of that time).

The offspring of the combination of the sons of God (Prehistoric people) and Adam's descendants is HOW humans are made. It happened on the first Earth with Cain, and on this Planet, with Noah's grandsons. Today, all people on Earth are the descendants of Adam. That is WHY we have the DNA of Mitochondrial Eve (a prehistoric woman who lived 150k years ago) AND we also have the human intelligence of Adam.

Cal:>>If anyone has a response to this one aspect of the debate please let me know. I know there are other issues often talked about on this, but I just want to focus on this one for this thread. I don't want to hear about angels being spirits or the book of enoch, or the angels that visited Abraham, or any of that other stuff. Just explain how these men in Gen. 6 received the title of "sons of god" apart from Christ.

Thanks for your interest. God's Truth agrees in every way with every other discovered Truth.

In Love,
Aman

 

[ChetSinger]

If anyone has a response to this one aspect of the debate please let me know. I know there are other issues often talked about on this, but I just want to focus on this one for this thread. I don't want to hear about angels being spirits or the book of enoch, or the angels that visited Abraham, or any of that other stuff. Just explain how these men in Gen. 6 received the title of "sons of god" apart from Christ.

I think the theories that they were men are modern ones. If someone can find an opinion in the early church that they were men, I'm interested.

 

[Calminian]

I think the theories that they were men are modern ones. If someone can find an opinion in the early church that they were men, I'm interested.

Well, Josephus' sources definitely believe they were angels.

for many angels of God accompanied with women, and begat sons that proved unjust, and despisers of all that was good, on account of the confidence they had in their own strength; for the tradition is, That these men did what resembled the acts of those whom the Grecians call giants. —Antiq. 1:73​

These were according to his ancient jewish sources. He also connected them to the legends we see in Greek mythology, which makes sense as many greek heroes were products of god/human unions.

Now with the early christians fathers, I know there are some exceptions, but the vast majority believed these were angels.

We also know some septuagint copies actually rendered the passage "angels of god" though not all did.

We also know the book of enoch was around during the life of Christ, as is quote in Jude. It's not an inspired book, but contains an account of the event in Gen. 6.

For what it's worth.

 

[Calminian]

....Dear Cal, The sons of God were NOT human, and they did Not descend from Adam. The sons of God were "natural" people whose origin was in the water, on the 5th Day. Genesis 1:21 This verse tells us that ALL living creatures that "moveth" came from the water.

The offspring of the combination of the sons of God (Prehistoric people) and Adam's descendants is HOW humans are made. It happened on the first Earth with Cain, and on this Planet, with Noah's grandsons. Today, all people on Earth are the descendants of Adam. That is WHY we have the DNA of Mitochondrial Eve (a prehistoric woman who lived 150k years ago) AND we also have the human intelligence of Adam.

Well okay. Sounds like a mixture of evolutionary theory and ancient astronauts sprinkled with a little errancy. But thanks for sharing. I'll file that one away.

 

[ChetSinger]

Well, Josephus' sources definitely believe they were angels.

for many angels of God accompanied with women, and begat sons that proved unjust, and despisers of all that was good, on account of the confidence they had in their own strength; for the tradition is, That these men did what resembled the acts of those whom the Grecians call giants. —Antiq. 1:73​

These were according to his ancient jewish sources. He also connected them to the legends we see in Greek mythology, which makes sense as many greek heroes were products of god/human unions.

Now with the early christians fathers, I know there are some exceptions, but the vast majority believed these were angels.

We also know some septuagint copies actually rendered the passage "angels of god" though not all did.

We also know the book of enoch was around during the life of Christ, as is quote in Jude. It's not an inspired book, but contains an account of the event in Gen. 6.

For what it's worth.

In the early church Justin Martyr and Athenagoras have written that they were angels, as well. I'm unaware of any ancient sources that identify them as men.

 

[Aman777]

Aman:>>The offspring of the combination of the sons of God (Prehistoric people) and Adam's descendants is HOW humans are made. It happened on the first Earth with Cain, and on this Planet, with Noah's grandsons. Today, all people on Earth are the descendants of Adam. That is WHY we have the DNA of Mitochondrial Eve (a prehistoric woman who lived 150k years ago) AND we also have the human intelligence of Adam.

Cal:>>Well okay. Sounds like a mixture of evolutionary theory and ancient astronauts sprinkled with a little errancy. But thanks for sharing. I'll file that one away.

Dear Cal, It's God's Holy Word. Here it is:

Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men,(Hebrew-Adam) and they bare [children] to them, the same [became] mighty men which [were] of old, men of renown.

The "giants" were giants intellectually, as the end of the verse shows. The sons of God came forth from the water on the 5th Day. Genesis 1:21 states that EVERY livng creature that moveth came forth from the water. The sons of God (prehistoric man) moved. If you don't agree, then tell us where Cain got his wife, or where Noah's grandsons, who had NO other humans to marry, got their wives.

It's not good enough to hand wave away this verse unless you can explain the "and also after that", which is PROPHECY of what would happen again, on another world. The intellectual giants were produced on the first earth "and also after that" on our Planet...unless you can explain HOW and WHEN we changed from prehistoric to human.

Please don't insult our intelligence by saying that Cain married his UnScriptural sister or that the sons of God were Angels, since Angels do not marry nor are given in marriage, AND they are in chains beneath the darkness. Jude 1 (Blue Letter Bible: KJV - King James Version)

In Love,
Aman

 

[Aunt Bee]

Very interesting thread. My husband and I have been studying this issue for quite some time now.

 

[Calminian]

Very interesting thread. My husband and I have been studying this issue for quite some time now.

By all means, share your insights, conclusions, etc.. It's a fascinating issue, and the very small toledoth in Genesis that mentions it was put there for a reason. I don't think I've yet fully grasped the significance of it.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Well, Josephus' sources definitely believe they were angels.

for many angels of God accompanied with women, and begat sons that proved unjust, and despisers of all that was good, on account of the confidence they had in their own strength; for the tradition is, That these men did what resembled the acts of those whom the Grecians call giants. —Antiq. 1:73​

These were according to his ancient jewish sources. He also connected them to the legends we see in Greek mythology, which makes sense as many greek heroes were products of god/human unions.

Now with the early christians fathers, I know there are some exceptions, but the vast majority believed these were angels.

We also know some septuagint copies actually rendered the passage "angels of god" though not all did.

We also know the book of enoch was around during the life of Christ, as is quote in Jude. It's not an inspired book, but contains an account of the event in Gen. 6.

For what it's worth.

I thought Enoch's revelations and doctrine on the subject was not to be brought in this thread.

 

[Calminian]

I thought Enoch's revelations and doctrine on the subject was not to be brought in this thread.

Yes, please, I would appreciate if we could stay focused on the OP for the most part. Someone just asked about ancient views so I briefly answered. I definitely don't do get into a debate about the details of Enoch, though.

Now by all means, if these are subjects important to you, I'd be willing to participate in another thread on that subject. I've got definitely opinions about extra-biblical books, but the purpose of me bringing the up here was to demonstrate the view of antiquity on this subject.