Discussion The WONDERFUL gift and mystery of Tongues ... a spiritual language

Status
Not open for further replies.

Alithis

Disciple of Jesus .
Nov 11, 2010
15,750
2,180
Mobile
✟94,492.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The WONDERFUL gift and mystery of Tongues ... a spiritual language...

This gift i find to be astounding and exciting and wonderful and far to little importance is placed upon it these days .
im not sure why ..

-- i find there are many who claim to be baptized in the Holy Spirit yet don't seem to either have received this gifting OR dont seem to have any interest in receiving Or the saddest of all don't believe in it ....(thats verbal topic hook haha)

of course one cannot say they are baptized in the Holy Spirit and then not believe in the gift of tongues .. but that's a side topic .

The
gift of tongues , that heavenly language ,that spiritual forming of communication between the Lord JEsus and our own spirit by the enablement of the Holy Spirit causing us by his power to pray in us through us AND FOR us . not only in sounds recognised to be what we would call language but also in utterances and groaning which are beyond the utterance of mankind .

this wonderful gift which enables us to pray the perfect will of God unhindered by carnal reasoning and limited understandings ...
this wonderful gift that allows us to pour our hearts out to the lord when we so do not even know what needs to be poured out :) :clap:

 
  • Like
Reactions: camphigrades

Alithis

Disciple of Jesus .
Nov 11, 2010
15,750
2,180
Mobile
✟94,492.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
This wonderful manifestation of unity between man and God where spirit is entwined with spirit and each part of the bride "communes" with the bridegroom in perfect unison and agreement in the culture of heaven itself.removed from all the fickle reasonings of mankind .
 
Upvote 0

Biblicist

Full Gospel believer
Mar 27, 2011
7,023
992
Melbourne, Australia
✟43,594.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
My favourite explanation for praying in the Spirit (tongues).

“The Pentecost narrative of Acts 2 is an eschatological event, in which the coming of the resurrection Spirit renews the covenantal community in anticipation of the parousia, and tongues is a theophanic sign of divine self-disclosure like that of the burning bush in the calling of Moses and the giving of the Law. As an eschatological foretaste, speaking in tongues is a cry for liberation, a "cry of abandonment;' which symbolizes the liberating force of the Spirit in breaking down racial, gender and class barriers. Glossolalia embodies an equalizing impulse in leveling all languages and human strivings, pointing to the inauguration of divine justice and mercy in its "groaning" for the suffering of creation yearning for liberation”.​

Peter Althouse​
 
Upvote 0

Alithis

Disciple of Jesus .
Nov 11, 2010
15,750
2,180
Mobile
✟94,492.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
so often i find that as we spend time with the lord ,giving Him worth above all else and spend time praying ,by faith, in tongues that interpretation comes of what it is we pray about, not always :)
haha perhaps it is a "need to know " basis . but that we are alone in our rooms (or wherever we may be ) means that interpretation is not a necessity .

interpretation is of course for the corporate setting where others are gathered ,that they may be blessed by a comprehension of what is being declared or may be able to say amen to what is prayed - but this is not about that :)
 
Upvote 0

bloodbought09

Veteran
Feb 8, 2010
1,999
121
51
united states
✟10,354.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
1 Corinthians 14:39-40 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. Let all things be done decently and in order.

Tongues:

Speaking mysteries
Edifies the person speaking in tongues
Speaking to God
To be done in private unless interpreted to edify the church
Sign to unbelievers

Prophesying:

Edifies church
Witness to unbelievers that God is with us
For those who believe
Prophesy one by one and let others judge, the spirit of the prophets are subject to the prophets
Desire spiritual gifts but rather that you may prophesy

Interpretation of tongues:

That the church may receive edification

Not all speak in tongues, so though it may be a sign of being baptized in the Holy Spirit, one can be baptized in the Holy Spirit without having the gift of tongues.

1 Corinthians 12:30-31 Have all the gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet show I unto you a more excellent way.

I received tongues with baptism in the Holy Spirit, desiring to learn about and to receive this gift. My girlfriend is born-again but does not desire this gift nor is she led to learn about and to receive it. She does not deny that it is a gift of the Holy Spirit and is open-minded toward others receiving this gift. But then she is gifted with administration, which I am not gifted with. She would have to agree that God is not a God of confusion but that all things ought to be done in order.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ron4shua
Upvote 0

JustHisKid

Well-Known Member
Jun 12, 2015
1,318
249
✟2,859.00
Faith
Christian
The WONDERFUL gift and mystery of Tongues ... a spiritual language...

This gift i find to be astounding and exciting and wonderful and far to little importance is placed upon it these days .
im not sure why ..

-- i find there are many who claim to be baptized in the Holy Spirit yet don't seem to either have received this gifting OR dont seem to have any interest in receiving Or the saddest of all don't believe in it ....(thats verbal topic hook haha)

of course one cannot say they are baptized in the Holy Spirit and then not believe in the gift of tongues .. but that's a side topic .

The
gift of tongues , that heavenly language ,that spiritual forming of communication between the Lord JEsus and our own spirit by the enablement of the Holy Spirit causing us by his power to pray in us through us AND FOR us . not only in sounds recognised to be what we would call language but also in utterances and groaning which are beyond the utterance of mankind .

this wonderful gift which enables us to pray the perfect will of God unhindered by carnal reasoning and limited understandings ...
this wonderful gift that allows us to pour our hearts out to the lord when we so do not even know what needs to be poured out :) :clap:

I agree. It's amazing and beautiful.
 
Upvote 0

bloodbought09

Veteran
Feb 8, 2010
1,999
121
51
united states
✟10,354.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
1 Corinthians 14:26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation, Let all things be done unto edifying.

These gifts of the Holy Spirit are beautiful and spiritual. I think doctrine with any church is very important. But all of these things make up the body of Christ, His bride, Jesus Christ being the bridegroom. But any aberration from doctrine and tenets of our faith is apostasy.

2 Timothy 4:1-4

1. I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and His kingdom;
2. Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4. And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Where there is sound doctrine and the gospel is preached these signs will follow.

Mark 16:17 Cast out devils, speak in tongues, lay hands on the sick and they shall recover.

But where there is false doctrine and seducing spirits, there are counterfeits. Spirits like frogs, lying signs and wonders, spirits masquerading as the Spirit of God. Kundalini, reiki, yoga, witchcraft, and sorceries. But we are not ignorant of these especially since we have also been given the gift of discerning spirits. God is holy and His church ought to be holy. We are the temple of the Holy Spirit.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Alithis

Disciple of Jesus .
Nov 11, 2010
15,750
2,180
Mobile
✟94,492.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
It is called the Word of God.
sure and i delight in the word of God .. but if the gift of tongues was all about rules and regulations it would not be all that wonderful.. wonderful ..a thing we have a sense of wonder about .
..
there are many threads debating this and that around the topic of tongues ..
here lets just enjoy giving thanks and praise to the lord and sharing about how wonderful is this gift .. :)

the rules and regulations apply to a single scenario .. in a meeting with many folks (and can differ in a prayer specific meeting )..
sometimes folks see candles being lit and they rush in with a bucket of water and forget the candles are mounted on a cake of celebration .. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: camphigrades
Upvote 0

Biblicist

Full Gospel believer
Mar 27, 2011
7,023
992
Melbourne, Australia
✟43,594.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
...there are many threads debating this and that around the topic of tongues ...
I agree, as much as I am tempted to throw in a few thoughts, I think that we should try and post about those things that speak of the benefits of being able to praise God in the Spirit.
 
Upvote 0

Biblicist

Full Gospel believer
Mar 27, 2011
7,023
992
Melbourne, Australia
✟43,594.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Then again, I could always use this new BBCode that I only came across a few minutes ago.
If you click on the black square and click it again something very interesting happens.
Quest. Just an observation ... the assumption that Paul's use of spirit is necessarily the Holy Spirit. That the spirit of the believer is joined with the Spirit is one thing, but indeed the usage does not demand this as a reference to Spirit.

This is something that the various translations have struggled over but for those of us who view the makup of man as being either dichotomous or functionally dichotomous, where we do not see man as having a human spirit, where he is composed of a body and a soul then this makes sense.

Things can very easily become a bit more complicated for those who hold to the trichotomist understanding where they view man as being composed of body, soul and a human spirit so they can very easily find themselves paddling up the creek without a paddle (or maybe that could be paddling up the creek with someone else’s paddle and they want it back).

Due to the input from various Pentecostal and charismatic scholars (along with those who are deemed to be scholastically “open-but-cautious”), various translation committees have recognised this anomaly where they have made the change from spirit to Spirit to better reflect Paul’s meaning.

· NIV (2011), the original 1984 edition had ‘spirit’
· Complete Jewish Bible
· English Standard Version
· New Living Translation
· New Revised Standard Version
· RSV 1952
· Holman Christian Standard Bible
· New Jerusalem Bible
· The Bible in Basic English
· Common English Bible
· The Douay-Rheims American Edition (1899)
· Etheridge Translation of the NT Peshitta (1849)
· The NET Bible, Version 1.0​


Likewise, the term "tongue" is used throughout the Scriptures and really does mean language .. to interpret narrowly first is to preclude discussion.

Yes, I raised this point in my earlier (long-winded) post where I made reference to Acts 2 (dialektos) which always refers to language where Paul in 1Cor 14:2 employs glossa which refers to the physical organ of the tongue. The only way that we can know how any word is being used (in any setting) is by its context and this certainly applies to glossa. Even though glossa refers to the physical organ it can also be used to describe the tongue being used to convey an articulate (typically English) or inarticulate (heavenly) sound.

In the NASB/NIV the Greek word glossa GK1185/SC1100 is used 50 times.

NASB
Mk. 7:33 physical organ
Mk. 7:35 physical organ
Mk. 16:17 physical organ
Lk. 1:64 physical organ
Lk. 16:24 physical organ with no connection with speech
Acts 2:3 tongues of fire
Acts 2:4 speaking in tongues (inarticulate language)
Acts 2:11 articulate language
Acts 2:26 articulate language
Acts 10:46 speaking in tongues (inarticulate language)
Acts 19:6 speaking in tongues (inarticulate language)
Rom. 3:13 physical organ
Rom. 14:11 articulate language
1 Co. 12:10 speaking in tongues (inarticulate language)
1 Co. 12:28 speaking in tongues (inarticulate language)
1 Co. 12:30 speaking in tongues (inarticulate language)
1 Co. 13:1 language (both articulate and inarticulate)
1 Co. 13:8 speaking in tongues (inarticulate language)
1 Co. 14:2 speaking in tongues (inarticulate language)
1 Co. 14:4 speaking in tongues (inarticulate language)
1 Co. 14:5 speaking in tongues (inarticulate language)
1 Co. 14:5 speaking in tongues (inarticulate language)
1 Co. 14:6 speaking in tongues (inarticulate language)
1 Co. 14:9 physical organ as it relates to speech
1 Co. 14:13 speaking in tongues (inarticulate language)
1 Co. 14:14 speaking in tongues (inarticulate language)
1 Co. 14:18 speaking in tongues (inarticulate language)
1 Co. 14:19 speaking in tongues (inarticulate language)
1 Co. 14:22 speaking in tongues (inarticulate language)
1 Co. 14:23 speaking in tongues (inarticulate language)
1 Co. 14:26 speaking in tongues (inarticulate language)
1 Co. 14:27 speaking in tongues (inarticulate language)
1 Co. 14:39 speaking in tongues (inarticulate language)
Phil. 2:11 articulate language
Jas. 1:26 physical organ as it relates to speech
Jas. 3:5 physical organ as it relates to speech
Jas. 3:6 physical organ as it relates to speech
Jas. 3:8 physical organ as it relates to speech
1 Pet. 3:10 physical organ as it relates to speech
1 Jn. 3:18 physical organ as it relates to speech
Rev. 5:9 physical organ as it relates to speech
Rev. 7:9 physical organ as it relates to speech
Rev. 10:11 physical organ as it relates to speech
Rev. 11:9 physical organ as it relates to speech
Rev. 13:7 physical organ as it relates to speech
Rev. 14:6 physical organ as it relates to speech
Rev. 16:10 physical organ
Rev. 17:15 physical organ as it relates to speech


. . .

For a bit of interest I will add in with how many translations often translate the Greek word ‘phone’ (Eng. Sound) for language where the NIV is a good example of this. What the translation committee inadvertently did was to change Paul’s (intentional or unintentional) emphasis with inarticulate sound to that of articulate sound. Where they changed ‘phone’ from sound to language I have placed a note in brackets. _

1Co 14:7-11 (NIV 1984)
"Even in the case of lifeless things that make sounds, such as the flute or harp, how will anyone know what tune is being played unless there is a distinction in the notes? Again, if the trumpet does not sound a clear call [sound], who will get ready for battle? So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air. Undoubtedly there are all sorts of languages [sounds] in the world, yet none of them is without meaning. If then I do not grasp the meaning [power] of what someone is saying [sound], I am a foreigner to the speaker, and he is a foreigner to me".​

Friberg Lexicon:
5515 γλῶσσα, ης, ἡ tongue; (1) literally, the organ of speech and taste tongue (MK 7.33); figuratively, as a means of verbal communication tongue, language (AC 2.11); (2) by metonymy tribe, people, or nation that speaks a common language (RV 5.9); (3) as a religious technical term for glossalalia tongues(-speaking), understood variously to be unintelligible ecstatic utterance (1C 14.2), heavenly language (1C 13.1), or foreign languages not learned through natural means by the speaker (AC 2.4); (4) as the shape of fire forked flames (AC 2.3)​

Louw-Nida Lexicon:

8.21 γλῶσσα, ης f - 'tongue.' ἡ γλῶσσα μικρὸν μέλος ἐστίν 'the tongue is a small member of the body' Jas 3.5. Though in Jas 3.5 the tongue is referred to as a part of the body, it is used essentially as a symbol for speech, and since in some languages the tongue is not regarded as an organ of speech, but simply as a part of the mouth, it may be necessary to change the expression to read 'the mouth is a small member of the body' or 'speaking is only a small part of one's life.' It is obviously not the tongue as an organ which corrupts the whole person, but the capacity for speech which has such a corrupting effect.​

Gingrich Lexicon:
1361 γλῶσσα
γλῶσσα
, ης, tongue1. lit as an organ of speech Mk 7:33, 35; Lk 16:24; 1 Cor 14:9; Js 1:26; Rv 16:10.—2. language Ac 2:11; Phil 2:11 ; Rv 5:9. The expressions γλῶσσαι, γένη γλωσσῶν, ἐν γ. λαλεῖν etc. refer to the ecstatic speech of those overcome by strong emotion in a cultic context. The latter expression is usually rendered speak in tongues. Ac 19:6; 1 Cor 12:10; 13:1, 8; 14 passim, [glosso-, as prefix in numerous words] [pg 40]
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

bloodbought09

Veteran
Feb 8, 2010
1,999
121
51
united states
✟10,354.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
sure and i delight in the word of God .. but if the gift of tongues was all about rules and regulations it would not be all that wonderful.. wonderful ..a thing we have a sense of wonder about .
..
there are many threads debating this and that around the topic of tongues ..
here lets just enjoy giving thanks and praise to the lord and sharing about how wonderful is this gift .. :)

the rules and regulations apply to a single scenario .. in a meeting with many folks (and can differ in a prayer specific meeting )..
sometimes folks see candles being lit and they rush in with a bucket of water and forget the candles are mounted on a cake of celebration .. :)

No bucket of water here. I was at 7/11 earlier as a firetruck went by and I quietly started to pray in the Spirit. I have prayed in the Spirit while laying hands on people and miracles do seem to occur. I told a man once that I do not know what was spoken, only God knows. To Him be all the glory for what He is about to do. Maybe he just needed a jump start. So, besides the Word being presented I thought I would just give a truthful testimony. Our testimony is the spirit of prophesy, so the Word says.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Alithis
Upvote 0

Alithis

Disciple of Jesus .
Nov 11, 2010
15,750
2,180
Mobile
✟94,492.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
No bucket of water here. I was at 7/11 earlier as a firetruck went by and I quietly started to pray in the Spirit. I have prayed in the Spirit while laying hands on people and miracles do seem to occur. I told a man once that I do not know what was spoken, only God knows. To Him be all the glory for what He is about to do. Maybe he just needed a jump start. So, besides the Word being presented I thought I would just give a truthful testimony. Our testimony is the spirit of prophesy, so the Word says.
good stuff :D :D :clap:
 
Upvote 0

Presbyterian Continuist

Senior Veteran
Supporter
Mar 28, 2005
21,810
10,792
76
Christchurch New Zealand
Visit site
✟827,033.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
1 Corinthians 14:26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation, Let all things be done unto edifying.

These gifts of the Holy Spirit are beautiful and spiritual. I think doctrine with any church is very important. But all of these things make up the body of Christ, His bride, Jesus Christ being the bridegroom. But any aberration from doctrine and tenets of our faith is apostasy.

2 Timothy 4:1-4

1. I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and His kingdom;
2. Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4. And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Where there is sound doctrine and the gospel is preached these signs will follow.

Mark 16:17 Cast out devils, speak in tongues, lay hands on the sick and they shall recover.

But where there is false doctrine and seducing spirits, there are counterfeits. Spirits like frogs, lying signs and wonders, spirits masquerading as the Spirit of God. Kundalini, reiki, yoga, witchcraft, and sorceries. But we are not ignorant of these especially since we have also been given the gift of discerning spirits. God is holy and His church ought to be holy. We are the temple of the Holy Spirit.

A believer who is in Christ is developing the mind of Christ so that he or she will think the way that Christ thinks, and will view self and others as God views them. When a person is thinking like Christ, the fruit of the Spirit are the foundations of the thinking and acting and there is no law against that. So when someone is fully in the fruit of the Spirit, rules and regulations are no longer an issue because he or she is being guided by the Spirit. So if someone is fixated on "correct doctrine" and rules and regulations, God is still working on their development to make up what is lacking in their experience of Him.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Presbyterian Continuist

Senior Veteran
Supporter
Mar 28, 2005
21,810
10,792
76
Christchurch New Zealand
Visit site
✟827,033.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
While piling on rules and restrictions... dont miss the point :)

There are no rules and regulations when a person is operating in total accordance with the fruit of the Spirit. The scripture says that there is no law that is against the fruit of the Spirit.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ron4shua
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.