The ways God showed mercy with Sodom and Gomorrah

LivingWordUnity

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The story of God's judgment against Sodom and Gomorrah goes from Genesis 18 to Genesis 19 in the Old Testament. God showed mercy by agreeing that he would not destroy Sodom if only ten righteous people were found there.

Genesis 18
22 So the men turned from there, and went toward Sodom; but Abraham still stood before the Lord. 23 Then Abraham drew near, and said, “Wilt thou indeed destroy the righteous with the wicked? 24 Suppose there are fifty righteous within the city; wilt thou then destroy the place and not spare it for the fifty righteous who are in it? 25 Far be it from thee to do such a thing, to slay the righteous with the wicked, so that the righteous fare as the wicked! Far be that from thee! Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?” 26 And the Lord said, “If I find at Sodom fifty righteous in the city, I will spare the whole place for their sake.” 27 Abraham answered, “Behold, I have taken upon myself to speak to the Lord, I who am but dust and ashes. 28 Suppose five of the fifty righteous are lacking? Wilt thou destroy the whole city for lack of five?” And he said, “I will not destroy it if I find forty-five there.” 29 Again he spoke to him, and said, “Suppose forty are found there.” He answered, “For the sake of forty I will not do it.” 30 Then he said, “Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak. Suppose thirty are found there.” He answered, “I will not do it, if I find thirty there.” 31 He said, “Behold, I have taken upon myself to speak to the Lord. Suppose twenty are found there.” He answered, “For the sake of twenty I will not destroy it.” 32 Then he said, “Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak again but this once. Suppose ten are found there.” He answered, “For the sake of ten I will not destroy it.”33 And the Lord went his way, when he had finished speaking to Abraham; and Abraham returned to his place.

The second way God showed mercy was by having the two angels pull Lot and his family to safety when Lot "lingered". Even though Lot's family was not righteous, God offered to save them for the sake of Lot. All they had to do was to not look back.

Genesis 19
1 The two angels came to Sodom in the evening; and Lot was sitting in the gate of Sodom. When Lot saw them, he rose to meet them, and bowed himself with his face to the earth, 2 and said, “My lords, turn aside, I pray you, to your servant’s house and spend the night, and wash your feet; then you may rise up early and go on your way.” They said, “No; we will spend the night in the street.” 3 But he urged them strongly; so they turned aside to him and entered his house; and he made them a feast, and baked unleavened bread, and they ate. 4 But before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, both young and old, all the people to the last man, surrounded the house;5 and they called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, that we may know them.” 6 Lot went out of the door to the men, shut the door after him, 7 and said, “I beg you, my brothers, do not act so wickedly. 8 Behold, I have two daughters who have not known man; let me bring them out to you, and do to them as you please; only do nothing to these men, for they have come under the shelter of my roof.” 9 But they said, “Stand back!” And they said, “This fellow came to sojourn, and he would play the judge! Now we will deal worse with you than with them.” Then they pressed hard against the man Lot, and drew near to break the door. 10 But the men put forth their hands and brought Lot into the house to them, and shut the door. 11 And they struck with blindness the men who were at the door of the house, both small and great, so that they wearied themselves groping for the door.

12 Then the men said to Lot, “Have you any one else here? Sons-in-law, sons, daughters, or any one you have in the city, bring them out of the place; 13 for we are about to destroy this place, because the outcry against its people has become great before the Lord, and the Lord has sent us to destroy it.” 14 So Lot went out and said to his sons-in-law, who were to marry his daughters, “Up, get out of this place; for the Lordis about to destroy the city.” But he seemed to his sons-in-law to be jesting.

15 When morning dawned, the angels urged Lot, saying, “Arise, take your wife and your two daughters who are here, lest you be consumed in the punishment of the city.” 16 But he lingered; so the men seized him and his wife and his two daughters by the hand, the Lord being merciful to him, and they brought him forth and set him outside the city. 17 And when they had brought them forth, they said, “Flee for your life; do not look back or stop anywhere in the valley; flee to the hills, lest you be consumed.” 18 And Lot said to them, “Oh, no, my lords; 19 behold, your servant has found favor in your sight, and you have shown me great kindness in saving my life; but I cannot flee to the hills, lest the disaster overtake me, and I die. 20 Behold, yonder city is near enough to flee to, and it is a little one. Let me escape there—is it not a little one?—and my life will be saved!” 21 He said to him, “Behold, I grant you this favor also, that I will not overthrow the city of which you have spoken. 22 Make haste, escape there; for I can do nothing till you arrive there.” Therefore the name of the city was called Zo′ar. 23 The sun had risen on the earth when Lot came to Zo′ar.

24 Then the Lord rained on Sodom and Gomor′rah brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven; 25 and he overthrew those cities, and all the valley, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and what grew on the ground. 26 But Lot’s wife behind him looked back, and she became a pillar of salt. 27 And Abraham went early in the morning to the place where he had stood before the Lord; 28 and he looked down toward Sodom and Gomor′rah and toward all the land of the valley, and beheld, and lo, smoke of the land went up like the smoke of a furnace.

29 So it was that, when God destroyed the cities of the valley, God remembered Abraham, and sent Lot out of the midst of the overthrow, when he overthrew the cities in which Lot dwelt.
 
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pdudgeon

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and because there is more than one way to purge and cleanse a community.
Fire is one way.
water, floods, and hurricanes are another way.

If you have been watching the news this year, you will have seen all of these in action.
 
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Cosmic Charlie

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and because there is more than one way to purge and cleanse a community.
Fire is one way.
water, floods, and hurricanes are another way.

If you have been watching the news this year, you will have seen all of these in action.

...easy availability of guns....
 
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concretecamper

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and because there is more than one way to purge and cleanse a community.
Fire is one way.
water, floods, and hurricanes are another way.

If you have been watching the news this year, you will have seen all of these in action.

Easy availability of knives, baseball bats, rocks, sticks, fists ( everyone has 2), etc........lol^_^
 
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pdudgeon

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Easy availability of knives, baseball bats, rocks, sticks, fists ( everyone has 2), etc........lol^_^

personally, i come equiped with a cane and i know how to use it.
LOL
 
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Martinius

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and because there is more than one way to purge and cleanse a community.
Fire is one way.
water, floods, and hurricanes are another way.

If you have been watching the news this year, you will have seen all of these in action.
So does God cause natural disasters? Does God pick and choose who will die in a natural disaster, or who will "only" have to suffer injuries or loss of a home? Does God direct the path of a tornado or flood so it kills only certain people? That seems to be what you are saying.
 
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LivingWordUnity

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So does God cause natural disasters? Does God pick and choose who will die in a natural disaster, or who will "only" have to suffer injuries or loss of a home? Does God direct the path of a tornado or flood so it kills only certain people? That seems to be what you are saying.
God can cause a natural disaster to happen. The most well-known example is the Great Flood during the time of Noah. Although God said that he would not flood the whole world that way again that doesn't exclude the possibility that God can choose to punish with other kinds of natural disasters or with a smaller scale flood. Also, I don't think every natural disaster is the direct will of God. Some things are willed by him while other things happen because he permits it. For example, Sacred Scripture warns that when a nation turns away from God that God will hide his face and permit foreign enemies to take over that nation.
 
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So does God cause natural disasters? Does God pick and choose who will die in a natural disaster, or who will "only" have to suffer injuries or loss of a home? Does God direct the path of a tornado or flood so it kills only certain people? That seems to be what you are saying.
the bible is quite clear on this; God chooses whom He blesses and whom He aflicts.
He is God and He has that right.
 
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Martinius

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God can cause a natural disaster to happen. The most well-known example is the Great Flood during the time of Noah. Although God said that he would not flood the whole world that way again that doesn't exclude the possibility that God can choose to punish with other kinds of natural disasters or with a smaller scale flood. Also, I don't think every natural disaster is the direct will of God. Some things are willed by him while other things happen because he permits it. For example, Sacred Scripture warns that when a nation turns away from God that God will hide his face and permit foreign enemies to take over that nation.
How do we know which are willed by God and which God just permits?
 
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Martinius

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the bible is quite clear on this; God chooses whom He blesses and whom He aflicts.
He is God and He has that right.
So, when the Galveston hurricane hit in 1900, it was God who decided to let it destroy the St. Mary's Orphan Asylum and kill a hundred children and nuns? Why would God afflict innocent children and nuns like that?
 
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LivingWordUnity

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How do we know which are willed by God and which God just permits?
We don't know for sure if a particular natural disaster of our time is willed by God or if it is just permitted by him. But I would guess that in most cases they are permitted rather than willed by God.
 
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pdudgeon

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So, when the Galveston hurricane hit in 1900, it was God who decided to let it destroy the St. Mary's Orphan Asylum and kill a hundred children and nuns? Why would God afflict innocent children and nuns like that?

Luke 4:25-26 is part of what you're looking for.
The answer to other part of your question concerning the loss of life is something that we must all be prepared for. Our life here is not permanent or even assured from one day to the next.
People die every day.

So the question is not why did they die, but were they prepared to die?
The choice of God to let the storm destroy the orphan asylum was also an act of mercy towards those living in the same area who might not have been prepared to die that day.
The orphans and nuns most likely were prepared, and entrusted that whatever came to them would be God's best and for His purpose.

The last part of your answer is in the future.
We cannot know what experiences God spared those nuns and children from having in this life, but we can know that God's timing was for their good. And also that by the example of their life and death they left behind both a legacy of faith and charity for the community in which they lived, and also a challenge to go and do likewise.
 
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Martinius

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We don't know for sure if a particular natural disaster of our time is willed by God or if it is just permitted by him. But I would guess that in most cases they are permitted rather than willed by God.
Do you really think ANY natural disasters are willed by God? If so, why? What would be the purpose or the point of it?
 
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Martinius

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So the question is not why did they die, but were they prepared to die?
The choice of God to let the storm destroy the orphan asylum was also an act of mercy towards those living in the same area who might not have been prepared to die that day.
The orphans and nuns most likely were prepared, and entrusted that whatever came to them would be God's best and for His purpose.
Well, the reason they died is because of the lack of modern methods of predicting and tracking hurricanes, and due to the lack of preparation and taking precautions, since they were told that Galveston could not be destroyed by a hurricane.

But I am troubled by the idea of God choosing to let nuns and orphaned children die since they would be better prepared, and leaving the "less prepared" to live on. I really don't think that this was the case of deaths from this hurricane. It was more due to being in the wrong place at the wrong time (which in this situation, included homes, churches, and Catholic homes for children that were too close to the Gulf). When the Sisters of Charity commemorate the anniversary of this loss each year, I doubt they are celebrating that their predecessor nuns and 90 children were drowned by raging flood waters thanks to their preparation. Rather they mourn the loss, laying a wreath, saying prayers.

Three boys from the home were the only survivors, as they were able to cling to a tree and were rescued the next day. Were they "less prepared to die" or were they just lucky?

One nun had taken a wagon into town for food, and her fellow sisters at the Catholic infirmary tried to keep her there, but she insisted on returning to the orphanage so the children could have supper. She did not make it back, nor did the children live to have supper. Were the nuns and people at the infirmary saved because they were "less prepared" or because they were on higher and safer ground?
 
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LivingWordUnity

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Do you really think ANY natural disasters are willed by God? If so, why?
We know that the Great Flood in the time of Noah was willed by God. And we also know that God later rained down fire and brimstone onto Sodom and Gomorrah.
What would be the purpose or the point of it?
I don't know what all of God's purposes are for things. But here's what Sacred Scripture says about why God flooded the world:

Genesis 6
5 The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And the Lord was sorry that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart. 7 So the Lord said, “I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the ground, man and beast and creeping things and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.” 8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord.
11 Now the earth was corrupt in God’s sight, and the earth was filled with violence. 12 And God saw the earth, and behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted their way upon the earth. 13 And God said to Noah, “I have determined to make an end of all flesh; for the earth is filled with violence through them; behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
 
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pdudgeon

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Well, the reason they died is because of the lack of modern methods of predicting and tracking hurricanes, and due to the lack of preparation and taking precautions, since they were told that Galveston could not be destroyed by a hurricane.

But I am troubled by the idea of God choosing to let nuns and orphaned children die since they would be better prepared, and leaving the "less prepared" to live on. I really don't think that this was the case of deaths from this hurricane. It was more due to being in the wrong place at the wrong time (which in this situation, included homes, churches, and Catholic homes for children that were too close to the Gulf). When the Sisters of Charity commemorate the anniversary of this loss each year, I doubt they are celebrating that their predecessor nuns and 90 children were drowned by raging flood waters thanks to their preparation. Rather they mourn the loss, laying a wreath, saying prayers.

Three boys from the home were the only survivors, as they were able to cling to a tree and were rescued the next day. Were they "less prepared to die" or were they just lucky?

One nun had taken a wagon into town for food, and her fellow sisters at the Catholic infirmary tried to keep her there, but she insisted on returning to the orphanage so the children could have supper. She did not make it back, nor did the children live to have supper. Were the nuns and people at the infirmary saved because they were "less prepared" or because they were on higher and safer ground?

God takes all of these things into account. As such, where He is concerned there is no "wrong time or wrong place". We can only say that from our vantage point, and even then not as Christians.

And of course there is also no 'luck' or "chance" involved, both of which discount God's omnipotence and omniscience and His care of us every moment of our lives.

The sisters of course mourn their own loss, but at the same time they can find comfort in the lives that these nuns and children lived, and that in living their lives these departed souls were close to God, and that their work here on Earth was compleated.

As for the nuns and the people at the infirmary, God obviously had plans for them in life that were not yet finished.
God does not make mistakes, but in everything that He does, He works for our good and also for the good of all mankind as a whole.

So whether we have lessons to learn, truth to impart, or folks to encourage, help, comfort, and rejoice with-- we have this day in which to do that, and that is what should be occupying our minds.
When we do that wholeheartedly and with all our being, then that is a worthwhile day given to us from God, that was well spent indeed. And if we keep on doing that, then we'll have no regrets either about how long or how short our lives were on this Earth.
 
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As for the nuns and the people at the infirmary, God obviously had plans for them in life that were not yet finished.
God does not make mistakes, but in everything that He does, He works for our good and also for the good of all mankind as a whole.
So, God had plans for only three of the children at the home, three boys who clung to a tree and were saved. God had no plans for any of the nuns who were killed. At the same time, God had plans for ALL the people at the infirmary. That was very convenient that God had all of one group at the infirmary and almost all of the other group at the children's home. I wonder what plans God had for the people who were saved, and why God did not have plans for all those who died at the orphanage?
 
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