The War Against Israel: 1948 to Present

BlandOatmeal

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Gog is at it again

This news is four days old, but it's still generating fury in diplomatic circles:

"Erdogan says Zionism crime against humanity
By JPOST.COM STAFF
02/28/2013 11:11

ShowImage.ashx


"Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan Photo: REUTERS/Umit Bektas

"Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan called Zionism a "crime against humanity" likening it with anti-Semitism, fascism, and Islamophobia while speaking at a UN forum on Wednesday. Erdogan was speaking Wednesday before a Vienna forum of the Alliance of Civilizations, a UN framework for West-Islam dialogue..."

-- Erdogan says Zionism crime against humanity | JPost | Israel News

I've been saying for the better part of a year now, that Turkey is the "Land of Magog" that will attack Israel as per Ezekiel 38-39. That prediction is based on the fact that all the nations mentioned as Turkey's allies in that attack, save Iran, Sudan and Libya, are in modern Turkey ("Magog" itself was probably the Neo-Hittite Empire that was the world's most powerful country during the Exodus from Egypt).

With every new move by Turkish PM Erdogan, and his near-continuous spewing forth of vitriol against Israel and against the Jewish people, I'm becoming convinced that Erdogan himself is the modern-day "Gog".

It won't be long now, before his words become an armed attack.

Shalom shalom :wave:

PS. Resemblance?

images


Interpreter, if you think Hitler still lives, you may be right. He's not "the Beast", though; just Gog. May he end the same way as his mentor.

For those who don't know this, by the way, "Zionism" is the modern movement for the creation of a Jewish homeland. It is not a "crime against humanity", to those of us who consider Jews to be human.
 
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BlandOatmeal

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Ergoden should first adress his own country's crimes against humanity that they haven't admit to, before calling out the Jews.
I'm glad to see Turkey finally getting well-deserved bad press:

44728.jpg

Image source: Tayyip Erdoğan'ın "Hitler-Goebbels" propaganda yöntemi
Jews are Number One Target of Hate Speech in Turkey
Jews were the most frequent targets of hate speech in Turkey, followed closely by Armenians.
By: Lori Lowenthal Marcus
Published: March 4th, 2013

-- Jews are Number One Target of Hate Speech in Turkey | The Jewish Press
Alarm at attacks on Turkish Armenians
05:51 pm | March 04, 2013 | Politics

By Aline Ozinian - Caucasus

A series of attacks on elderly Armenians in Istanbul has left human rights activists fearful of an upsurge of xenophobia in Turkey...

-- Alarm at attacks on Turkish Armenians .::. The Armenian News by A1+
Friday, March 1, 2013
Armenians in Turkey: A Life Spent in Hiding

> Nearly a century after the mass killings of Armenians in the Ottoman Empire, an increasing number of Turks of Armenian heritage are acknowledging their roots. Out of fear of discrimination, many survivors had converted to Islam and adopted Turkish names.

-- Marash Girl: Armenians in Turkey: A Life Spent in Hiding
White House slams Erdogan's Zionism remark
By JPOST.COM STAFF, HERB KEINON
03/01/2013 10:11

UN says Erdogan's anti-Zionism comment may have been wrongly interpreted; White House says comments "offensive and wrong."

-- White House slams Erdogan's Zionism remark | JPost | Israel News
 
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BlandOatmeal

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A lot there on Armenians.

It's almost the 100th anniversary of he genocide. Maybe now they'll admit to it?

Edit: The, not he
Hi, Pie. I listed attacks on Jews, Kurds, Armenians and the Press. I left out the Cypriots, who have endured Turkish occupation for 40 years. BTW, I may have exceeded my "quote" limit, so I cut/pasted some of them here:
Kerry calls Erdogan's Zionism remark 'objectionable'

US Secretary of State John Kerry's trip to Turkey has been overshadowed by a controversial comment from the Turkish premier equating Zionism to a "crime against humanity." Kerry said he found the remarks "objectionable."

-- Kerry calls Erdogan's Zionism remark 'objectionable' | News | DW.DE | 01.03.2013
Israeli official boycotts interfaith meeting attended by Turkish deputy PM

5 March 2013 /TODAY'S ZAMAN, İSTANBUL
Israeli ambassador Yakov Hadas-Handelsman, although he had first planned to attend the international conference titled “Muslim, Jews, Christians: Peace is Possible,” changed his mind when it was clear that Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan is sticking to his recent remarks on Zionism...

-- Israeli official boycotts interfaith meeting attended by Turkish deputy PM
Reports:Human Rights Watch Condemns Turkey for Imprisoning Pro-Kurdish Intellectuals

-- Reports:Human Rights Watch Condemns Turkey for Imprisoning Pro-Kurdish Intellectuals - IKJ News
 
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BlandOatmeal

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and here
Turkish Military Assault on Kurds Sparks Outrage

-- Turkish Military Assault on Kurds Sparks Outrage - IKJ News
Basque parliament passes anti-Turkey bill

5 March 2013 /TODAYSZAMAN.COM, İSTANBUL
Basque regional parliament has passed an anti-Turkey bill introduced by the Basque Country's pro-independence Euskal Herria Bildu party on Feb. 5...

According to the bill, the Euskal Herria Bildu party, which holds Turkey accountable for the recent killing of three Kurdish women linked to the terrorist Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK) in Paris, requests that the Basque Parliament's EU Council get involved in the solution of the Kurdish national problem.

-- Basque parliament passes anti-Turkey bill
Turkey's Imprisoned Press

According human rights organisations, there were never as many journalists in prison in Turkey since the end of the military regime in 1983 as during the past year. Aryeh Neier, founding member of "Human Rights Watch", criticizes the state of media freedom of Turkey, which in his view conflicts with the nation's general human rights situation

-- Turkey's Imprisoned Press - Qantara.de
Blog: In letter from Turkish jail, journalist describes ordeal

In a letter she passed from Gebze women's prison outside Istanbul, Fusün Erdo?an, founder and director of the leftist broadcaster Özgür Radyo, details circumstances of her arrest, imprisonment, and politicized criminal charges. Erdo?an founded the broadcaster in 1995, and worked as its director until September 8, 2006--the day when plainclothes...

-- Blog: In letter from Turkish jail, journalist describes ordeal | Regator - Curated Blog Search and Discovery
 
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I Eat Pie

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Ya... They've occupied way too much land of other people.

This guy will get his just deserts. I made a small thread just now about Hugo Chavez's death.

He was Anti-Semetic too. maybe Ergoden will end up the same.
 
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BlandOatmeal

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A lot there on Armenians.

It's almost the 100th anniversary of he genocide. Maybe now they'll admit to it?

Edit: The, not he
In response to what you said, Pie,
Does Turkey admit to the Armenian genocide?

Answer:
No. Turkey has passed legislation banning any open discussion of the Armenian Genocide and uses its important diplomatic position to prevent other countries from recognizing the Armenian Genocide.


-- Does Turkey admit to the Armenian genocide
 
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I Eat Pie

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Some westernized nation eh?

Gotta love freedom of no speech.

If we didn't use these guys for their land for our weapons to invade the middle east, I doubt we'd have any business with them.

I wonder how much longer we need them for.
 
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BlandOatmeal

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Some westernized nation eh?

Gotta love freedom of no speech.

If we didn't use these guys for their land for our weapons to invade the middle east, I doubt we'd have any business with them.

I wonder how much longer we need them for.
The Turks are an emerging economy, with a growing technology sector, and they are a regional power. I've only known three Turks in my life, all of them pretty on-the-ball, friendly people. Their leader, though, has really gone off the deep end concerning Israel. Israeli PM Netanyahu has been making overtures toward Turkey, trying to mend fences that Edogan has been breaking over the years; but this is a real slap in the face of Netanyahu and Jews everywhere. As with Judas Iscariot, I think the devil has entered into him. I think it would be hard for him to repent from what he's said.

Chavez is dead. No tears from this quarter.
 
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apache1

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For more than eleven years, Israel has been wildly celebrating the success of its 9/11 operation against the United States of America. The latest example: Israeli children recently dressed up as the burning Twin Towers, complete with impaled exploding airplanes, to celebrate the bizarre Jewish holiday known as Purim.

Purim exalts and commemorates an ancient operation very much like 9/11. It glorifies the deceptions of Esther, who concealed her Jewish identity to seduce the King of Persia, then slyly tricked him into slaughtering 75,000 people deemed “enemies of the Jews.”

In other words, Purim celebrates Jews lying, secretly penetrating the highest levels of government, and manipulating the leaders of an empire into mass-murdering perceived “enemies of the Jewish people.” That is exactly what the neoconservative Likudnik extremists - Wolfowitz, Perle, Libby, and the rest - did on September 11th, 2001. The only difference is that these modern, neocon Esthers would eventually kill millions of innocent people, not just 75,000.

And if they succeed in tricking the US into attacking Iran on behalf of Israel, thereby launching World War III, today's neocon Esthers could kill tens or even hundreds of millions.
This sounds like either neo-Nazi or Islamist style conspiracy theory stuff.
 
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apache1

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Gog is at it again

This news is four days old, but it's still generating fury in diplomatic circles:

"Erdogan says Zionism crime against humanity
By JPOST.COM STAFF
02/28/2013 11:11

ShowImage.ashx


"Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan Photo: REUTERS/Umit Bektas

"Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan called Zionism a "crime against humanity" likening it with anti-Semitism, fascism, and Islamophobia while speaking at a UN forum on Wednesday. Erdogan was speaking Wednesday before a Vienna forum of the Alliance of Civilizations, a UN framework for West-Islam dialogue..."

-- Erdogan says Zionism crime against humanity | JPost | Israel News

I've been saying for the better part of a year now, that Turkey is the "Land of Magog" that will attack Israel as per Ezekiel 38-39. That prediction is based on the fact that all the nations mentioned as Turkey's allies in that attack, save Iran, Sudan and Libya, are in modern Turkey ("Magog" itself was probably the Neo-Hittite Empire that was the world's most powerful country during the Exodus from Egypt).

With every new move by Turkish PM Erdogan, and his near-continuous spewing forth of vitriol against Israel and against the Jewish people, I'm becoming convinced that Erdogan himself is the modern-day "Gog".

It won't be long now, before his words become an armed attack.

Shalom shalom :wave:

PS. Resemblance?

images


Interpreter, if ou think Hitler still lives, you may be right. He's not "the Beast", though; just Gog. May he end the same way as his mentor.

For those who don't know this, by the way, "Zionism" is the modern movement for the creation of a Jewish homeland. It is not a "crime against humanity", to those of us who consider Jews to be human.
Hitler still lives, allright. He is over 100 years old, but still rather spry and still has his mental faculties, is now furhrer over a tribe of goose-stepping natives living in the Amazon Rainforest. He even is the gourmand of a new recipe that will soon be the hit of German and Brazilian restaurants alike called "Piranaschnitzel". ^_^
 
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BlandOatmeal

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Hitler still lives, allright. He is over 100 years old, but still rather spry and still has his mental faculties, is now furhrer over a tribe of goose-stepping natives living in the Amazon Rainforest. He even is the gourmand of a new recipe that will soon be the hit of German and Brazilian restaurants alike called "Piranaschnitzel". ^_^
I fail to see your point. Interpreter has a doctrine that Hitler is somehow the Beast, who started the Battle of Armageddon on 9/11. I don't follow that doctrine; but Erdogan is certainly a "little Hitler", with his penchant for exterminating the Jews of Israel. Now you're saying he's alive and in the sausage business. Have you been collaborating with Interpreter?

mqdefault.jpg


Not the same, but close.​
 
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BlandOatmeal

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With a majority of Europeans believing the Jews of Israel are the chief threat to world peace, it's curious that a war they have nothing to do with, right next to them, is having a human toll twice as great as all the Israeli-Arab wars put together.

One million flee Syria war: UN


7453503274674874.jpg


Syrian families wait their turn to register at the UNHCR center in the northern city of Tripoli, Lebanon. (AP Photo/Bilal Hussein)

Agence France Presse
Wednesday 6 March 2013
Last Update 6 March 2013 10:41 am

DAMASCUS: One million Syrians have fled their homeland since a revolt erupted two years ago, the UN said on Wednesday, as fighting between rebels and loyalists raged across central and northern battlefields...

-- One million flee Syria war: UN | ArabNews

European Poll: Israel Biggest Threat To World Peace

"Simon Wiesenthal CenterResults of a new poll commissioned by the European Commission show that Israel is believed by Europeans in 15 countries to be the greatest threat to world peace, greater than North Korea, Iran or Afghanistan..."

-- http://www.jewishfederations.org/european-poll-israel-biggest-threat-to-world-peace.aspx
 
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apache1

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I fail to see your point. Interpreter has a doctrine that Hitler is somehow the Beast, who started the Battle of Armageddon on 9/11. I don't follow that doctrine; but Erdogan is certainly a "little Hitler", with his penchant for exterminating the Jews of Israel. Now you're saying he's alive and in the sausage business. Have you been collaborating with Interpreter?

mqdefault.jpg


Not the same, but close.​
This is just a joke, not to be taken seriously. The only thing even remotely close to this is there were a lot of rumors at the end of WWII that he somehow escaped to Argentina or Brazil and lived out rest of his days there. By the way, I based this off-color joke from an "article" I read years ago in the Weekly World News when it was still in business, and made up "piranaschnitzel" on my own.
 
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BlandOatmeal

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This is just a joke, not to be taken seriously. The only thing even remotely close to this is there were a lot of rumors at the end of WWII that he somehow escaped to Argentina or Brazil and lived out rest of his days there. By the way, I based this off-color joke from an "article" I read years ago in the Weekly World News when it was still in business, and made up "piranaschnitzel" on my own.
Hello, Apache

I'm glad we can get on the same wavelength on this. Yes, believing Hitler is still alive is a joke; and I don't even think Interpreter believes he is. There is more than a physical resemblance between Recep Tayyip Erdoğan and der Führer, though: Both are intent on removing the Jews from Israel in a "final solution".

If you think THAT's a joke, perhaps I should explain a bit about the meaning of "Zionism". Zionism is nothing more than the Jewish version of nationalism. It was proposed by Theodor Herzl, a Hungarian Jew, in some notable publications.

Herzl_retouched.jpg


Theodor Herzl

The most important publication, in my mind, is Altneuland ("Old New Land", pub. 1902), which I believe is available online. Wikipedia's take on it, concerning the Arabs, is as follows:
...In Herzl's vision, the New Society in Palestine is thoroughly multicultural; anyone who wants to contribute, and is willing to take up the duties of citizenship, is welcome to join in and receive the substantial benefits associated with the new infrastructure. Several times, characters insist that national origins and religion make absolutely no difference to a person's status; the society is essentially a very large cooperative, and runs substantially according to Rochdale principles (which are explained and lauded). The Temple will be rebuilt, but not on the site of the original Temple Mount, and it would be much more like a modern synagogue (no animal sacrifices, for example). Hence there is no Arab opposition to it...

-- [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Old_New_Land
I have read that work, and there is nothing in it that is in any way "racist", "imperialist", or anything of the sort. I came away from studying it, phenomenally impressed by Herzl's vision. He was a truly prophetic man, and he accurately addressed the main opposition to Zionism: European Jews, who ridiculed the idea that the Jews should give up their rather comfortable lives to live in a land that was, for the most part, uninhabitable.

When Erdogan called Zionism a "crime against humanity", he was not attacking any current Israeli government policies. He was attacking the very idea that Jews should be allowed to live in Israel -- ANYWHERE in Israel.

That is what makes Erdogan so eerily similar to Hitler.

Shalom shalom.
 
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apache1

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Hello, Apache

I'm glad we can get on the same wavelength on this. Yes, believing Hitler is still alive is a joke; and I don't even think Interpreter believes he is. There is more than a physical resemblance between Recep Tayyip Erdoğan and der Führer, though: Both are intent on removing the Jews from Israel in a "final solution".

If you think THAT's a joke, perhaps I should explain a bit about the meaning of "Zionism". Zionism is nothing more than the Jewish version of nationalism. It was proposed by Theodor Herzl, a Hungarian Jew, in some notable publications.

Herzl_retouched.jpg

Theodor Herzl​


The most important publication, in my mind, is Altneuland ("Old New Land", pub. 1902), which I believe is available online. Wikipedia's take on it, concerning the Arabs, is as follows:

I have read that work, and there is nothing in it that is in any way "racist", "imperialist", or anything of the sort. I came away from studying it, phenomenally impressed by Herzl's vision. He was a truly prophetic man, and he accurately addressed the main opposition to Zionism: European Jews, who ridiculed the idea that the Jews should give up their rather comfortable lives to live in a land that was, for the most part, uninhabitable.

When Erdogan called Zionism a "crime against humanity", he was not attacking any current Israeli government policies. He was attacking the very idea that Jews should be allowed to live in Israel -- ANYWHERE in Israel.

That is what makes Erdogan so eerily similar to Hitler.

Shalom shalom.
Myself, I have never understood why the world in general is so anti-Israeli. In fact, a cousin of mine even in a conversation with me said (and he isn't even anti-Semitic) the damned Israelis should leave them Palestinians alone, just like when the old pioneers of the Daniel Boone era treated our Indian ancestors like sh--. I replied to my cousin the Jews were more like the Indians than the Arabs. You have a small country surrounded by hostile nations that would like to see them eliminated (much like the Cherokees and other Indians were surrounded ever increasingly by white settlers that thought the only good Indian was a dead Indian), and the Jews had a horific holocaust that somewhat analagous to holocaust (yes, it was that) that the Native Americans on TWO continents AND the Carribean had been through. (The Cherokees had its own little Holocaust, The Trail of Tears, as did the other "Civilized Tribes", i.e. Choctaw, Chicasaw, Creek, and Seminole. And look of course what happened to other Indian tribes, some don't even exist anymore (Calusa, anyone?). I guess the Israelis got tired of taking it anymore. Now does this give them the right to persecute Palestinians or anyone else themselves? No, but almost constant rocket and mortar attacks and hostile rhetoric and declarations to drive the Jews into the sea and utter destruction of them and repeated terrorism kinda leaves a bad taste in ones mouth about the neighbors.
 
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Supreme

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Hello, Apache

I'm glad we can get on the same wavelength on this. Yes, believing Hitler is still alive is a joke; and I don't even think Interpreter believes he is. There is more than a physical resemblance between Recep Tayyip Erdoğan and der Führer, though: Both are intent on removing the Jews from Israel in a "final solution".

If you think THAT's a joke, perhaps I should explain a bit about the meaning of "Zionism". Zionism is nothing more than the Jewish version of nationalism. It was proposed by Theodor Herzl, a Hungarian Jew, in some notable publications.

Herzl_retouched.jpg


Theodor Herzl

The most important publication, in my mind, is Altneuland ("Old New Land", pub. 1902), which I believe is available online. Wikipedia's take on it, concerning the Arabs, is as follows:

I have read that work, and there is nothing in it that is in any way "racist", "imperialist", or anything of the sort. I came away from studying it, phenomenally impressed by Herzl's vision. He was a truly prophetic man, and he accurately addressed the main opposition to Zionism: European Jews, who ridiculed the idea that the Jews should give up their rather comfortable lives to live in a land that was, for the most part, uninhabitable.

When Erdogan called Zionism a "crime against humanity", he was not attacking any current Israeli government policies. He was attacking the very idea that Jews should be allowed to live in Israel -- ANYWHERE in Israel.

That is what makes Erdogan so eerily similar to Hitler.

Shalom shalom.

I'm no fan of Erdogan, but comparing him to a mass murderer like Hitler is just ridiculous. Yes, he's said some stupid stuff, as we all do. Does that mean he's as a bad as a man responsible for the deaths of millions? Absolutely not.
 
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Zeek

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I'm no fan of Erdogan, but comparing him to a mass murderer like Hitler is just ridiculous. Yes, he's said some stupid stuff, as we all do. Does that mean he's as a bad as a man responsible for the deaths of millions? Absolutely not.

I think it has more to do with comparing his motives and intentions...the same spirit that motivated Hitler also appears to be motivating people like Erdogan...and it is interesting to see how various leaders that hate Israel come and go within the Moslem countries...for example Assad is a pretty unpleasant sort of person, an takes after his father in cruelty and callousness, but if he is removed frompower by the rebels, their avowed aim is to first sort out Syria, and then conquer Israel.

It is virtually every Moslem leaders goal to be the one to defeat Israel..this is the feather in the cap they are looking for....compared to the US presidents who successively want to be the one who brings peace to the Middle-East...whether that means they love Israel and support the Jewish people is another matter, and probably has more to do with political expediency and personal kudos.

Interesting thread...have read much, and will read more...good to read things about Israel that are actually not based on hearsay or laden with an anti-Semitic/Zionist bias. :thumbsup:...(but vultures will gather where the corpse lies.)
 
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BlandOatmeal

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I think it has more to do with comparing his motives and intentions...the same spirit that motivated Hitler also appears to be motivating people like Erdogan...and it is interesting to see how various leaders that hate Israel come and go within the Moslem countries...for example Assad is a pretty unpleasant sort of person, an takes after his father in cruelty and callousness, but if he is removed frompower by the rebels, their avowed aim is to first sort out Syria, and then conquer Israel.

It is virtually every Moslem leaders goal to be the one to defeat Israel..this is the feather in the cap they are looking for....compared to the US presidents who successively want to be the one who brings peace to the Middle-East...whether that means they love Israel and support the Jewish people is another matter, and probably has more to do with political expediency and personal kudos.

Interesting thread...have read much, and will read more...good to read things about Israel that are actually not based on hearsay or laden with an anti-Semitic/Zionist bias. :thumbsup:...(but vultures will gather where the corpse lies.)
Hi, Zaz. I agree with you, in those areas that I can verify. As for how virtually all Muslim leaders wanting to be the one to be seen as defeating Israel, I don't know. What amazes me, is that countries across the globe which have virtually no connection with Israel, places like Swaziland, Uruguay and China, are in lock step in the UN, in voting for resolution after resolution condemning Israel for things that in most countries don't even make the news

Supreme's logic has no place here. By his reasoning, Adolph Hitler could have been described as a peace-loving man in 1937, because he hadn't killed any Jews and hadn't made war with anyone. Yet Hitler in his 1937 rendition was the very same person, spewing forth the exact same antiSemitic vitriol, in 1939 and 1941 as he was in 1937. What he said, and what Erdogan is saying, is not simply "stupid stuff". It is incitement to genocide.

P. S. I'm curious about your "vultures" quote. Isaiah 34 comes to mind:

Isa 34
[8] For it is the day of the LORD's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.
[9] And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch.
[10] It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.
[11] But the cormorant and the bittern shall possess it; the owl also and the raven shall dwell in it: and he shall stretch out upon it the line of confusion, and the stones of emptiness.
[12] They shall call the nobles thereof to the kingdom, but none shall be there, and all her princes shall be nothing.
[13] And thorns shall come up in her palaces, nettles and brambles in the fortresses thereof: and it shall be an habitation of dragons, and a court for owls.
[14] The wild beasts of the desert shall also meet with the wild beasts of the island, and the satyr shall cry to his fellow; the screech owl also shall rest there, and find for herself a place of rest.
[15] There shall the great owl make her nest, and lay, and hatch, and gather under her shadow: there shall the vultures also be gathered, every one with her mate.
[16] Seek ye out of the book of the LORD, and read: no one of these shall fail, none shall want her mate: for my mouth it hath commanded, and his spirit it hath gathered them.
[17] And he hath cast the lot for them, and his hand hath divided it unto them by line: they shall possess it for ever, from generation to generation shall they dwell therein.

I believe "The Controversy of Zion" is what we are talking about, with all this condemnation around the world against Zionism. The thing that is offensive to the Chinese, to the Zimbabweans and to the Jamaicans alike, is not that the Jews should be granted a homeland, though that would probably be sufficient to incite many. It is their return to Zion, according to Biblical prophecy, that has every devil and every world leader losing sleep. They know that if God's word concerning the Jewish people is still active and powerful after 2,000 and 3,000 years, they need to fear the reach of the King of the Universe.

Despite Supreme's insistence that those folks are just "saying stupid things", those leaders are not stupid; they fear something very real, and are warring against it; and the time is fast approaching, that they will convert their words into deadly action. And the vultures will indeed gather. The "Marriage Supper of the Lamb" will come, and the birds of the air will eat the flesh of kings, and of the mighty of the earth.

Rev 19
[18] That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
 
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