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The War Against Israel: 1948 to Present

Discussion in 'News & Current Events' started by BlandOatmeal, Jan 27, 2013.

  1. I Eat Pie

    I Eat Pie New Member

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    I don't think Iran has much of an Issue on Israel. This seems like more of an Arab problem than just a Muslim one
     
  2. BlandOatmeal

    BlandOatmeal Regular Member

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    Hi, Pie.

    This is a complicated issue. For one thing, everyone seems to have something different in mind, when they talk about a Middle East "problem". To tens of millions of people, mostly Europeans and Americans, the "problem" seems to be the existence of Israel as a Jewish homeland. That, in essence, is the meaning of "Anti-Zionism". Nothing that happens in the Middle East, save the extermination of the Jews, will ever solve their "problem".

    Concerning the Muslims, you are correct in saying that they don't have as much of a "problem" with the Jews as the Arabs in that they have not been as actively involved with wars against Israel as the latter. The very war casualty figures I posted to you attest to this fact. They are getting sucked into the vortex, though, starting with Iran and Turkey. Here's the latest news I read last night from Israel:

    "Assad’s troops retreat from Golan, leaving Islamist rebels to confront Israel
    DEBKAfile Exclusive Report February 19, 2013, 12:50 PM (GMT+02:00)

    President Bashar Assad has evacuated most of the troops of his 5th Army Division from their permanent bases on the Golan opposite Israeli forces and transferred the unit along with its artillery to Damascus, debkafile’s military sources report.

    "The Syrian ruler’s step had three purposes:

    1. To reinforce his Damascus defenses;
    2. To carve out a buffer zone along the Israeli border and leave it under rebel control.
    3. To provide the jihadists fighting in rebel ranks with access to the Israeli border fence. Senior officers in the IDF’s northern command believe it is just a matter of time before these al Qaeda-associated fighters hurl themselves at the border fence to break through, or target Israeli military targets from across the Syrian border..."
    -- Assad’s troops retreat from Golan, leaving Islamist rebels to confront Israel

    When I first started this thread's predecessors several months ago, most of the bloggers on CF were concerned that Israel would start a major war in the Middle East by attacking Iran. I said then, and continue to say, that

    1. Israel does not need to attack Iran in order to start a war against them. Even if Israel did directly attack Iran, say, with an airstrike, Iran's response would be missile attacks on Israel from Syria, Lebanon and Gaza. Since then, Gaza already unleashed a missile barrage against Israel that provoked an Israeli operation against them. In Syria, Iran's Hizbullah operatives were transferring weapons, possibly chemical warheads, into Lebanon for use against Israel, when Israel allegedly attacked that convoy and an associated chemical weapons factory. Hizbullah already reportedly has over 50,000 Iranian-produced missiles in that country for a strike against the Jewish state. Around the same time as that airstrike, several high-ranking Iranian Revolutionary Guards officers were killed in an attack near the border with Israel, of unknown origin. Iran, of course, has threatened massive retalliation for these incidents. The upshot is that a war between Iran and Israel can happen from any quarter -- from Gaza, from the Mediterranean, where Iran has sent warships, from Hizbullah operatives in Lebanon and Syria, or from Iran itself. What is certain, is that they are already engaged in combat.
    2. The Middle East is already engulfed in a regional war, which has nothing to do with Israel: The civil war in Syria is out of control, and has produced numerous cross-border incidents with Turkey, Lebanon and Jordan; the political situation in Egypt is deteriorating, without Jewish help; Libya is in virtual anarchy, and terrorists from there are causing havoc in Algeria and Mali; Sudan still has not made a definitive peace with South Sudan and the Darfurian rebels; war continues to rage in Yemen, Iraq is on the brink of national disintegration into Shi'a, Sunni and Kurdish states, and Turkey is still plagued with an unsolved Kurdish rebellion. None of this is Israel's doing.
    In the background of the "hot" war against Israel, which has not broken out lately in a major way, is the psychological war being waged against that country. You can see this from the map I posted previously:

    [​IMG]

    In the map, the yellow, orange and green countries all consistently vote against Israel. Since the US and Canada nearly always support Israel, this ends up in their voting against the North Americans at the same time. Europe only votes with the US about half the time. Behind that number, is the fact that the votes where Europe votes AGAINST the US are usually resolutions condemning and attempting to undermine Israel. Outside of the US, Canada and a few Pacific islands, then, the entire world has a beef against Israel. The votes are identical whether the country is Muslim, Hindu, Atheist or Christian; and the Arabs are no more opposed to Israel than, say, the Chinese.

    It is this psychological war that I am mainly concerned with, a war that can and probably will end up in a physical attack on Israel the moment the US abandons that country.

    I challenge you or anyone, to find a logical reason for this world-wide enmity against the Jewish state. As you have said, there is no physical reason those countries should feel threatened by that little country. Tell me why the Chinese, for instance, who have brutally suppressed uprisings by their Tibetan population, or the Turks, who have for decades forbidden the Kurds to even publish in their own language, should be concerned that Jews in Israel are building homes on unoccupied state land that has never been Arab-owned. Why? Why are the Mexicans more concerned with this, than with a drug cartel war in their own country that has claimed more than 50,000 lives? Why are the Syrians more concerned about this, than about rebel tanks that freely move in and out of their country from Turkey? Why are the Cypriots more concerned about this, than they are with the Turkish military that has illegally occupied the northern part of their country for nearly 40 years? There are rarely UN resolutions touching on those matters; yet about half the resolutions the UN DOES pass, are overt or veiled attacks on Israel.

    Why? Why? Why?

    Shalom shalom :wave:
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2013
  3. I Eat Pie

    I Eat Pie New Member

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    Idk LOL, didn't the prophecy say that the world will turn against israel?
     
  4. interpreter

    interpreter Senior Member

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    The ten kings represented by the ten horns appear during the great tribulation, and represent the nations aligned with the antichrist, i.e., Hitler, and have nothing to do with the battle of Ar Mageddon.
    The battle of Ar Mageddon is started by demon-possessed kings of the east. (See Rev. 16:12-14). We are not told how many of them take part. There will be at least one false prophet in the west that joins them. But I doubt that will the be the US which is Israel's staunchest ally. The US is the 4th horseman to rule the earth for Jesus, founded by George Washington who rode a pale horse. Our weapons bring hell and death.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2013
  5. interpreter

    interpreter Senior Member

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    The demon-possessed kings of the east will try to turn the world against Israel.
     
  6. I Eat Pie

    I Eat Pie New Member

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    Honestly, if Israel ever needed volunteers for an all out war, I'd go sign up. Not because of religious purposes, but because I beleive in freedom and humanity. Israel is doing nothing wrong.
     
  7. interpreter

    interpreter Senior Member

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    LOL. Iran's president has said that Israel should be wiped off the map. He is no doubt one of the demon-possessed kings of the east who start the Battle of Ar Mageddon.
     
  8. I Eat Pie

    I Eat Pie New Member

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    Ya but it's Iran.... We're not actually dealing with a very tough enemy here. We can probably wipe out their military in like 24 hours xD
     
  9. BlandOatmeal

    BlandOatmeal Regular Member

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    Hi, Interpreter.

    Thanks for the input. Let me do some lookups, to see which of us is right on this.

    Rev 16
    [12] And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
    [13] And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
    [14] For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

    "The dragon" is mentioned elsewhere in Rev, and the Devil, Satan, who empowers "the beast". That "beast" has seven heads and ten horns, just like the dragon. The demons DO NOT POSSESS THE KINGS OF THE EAST; they come out of the dragon, the beast and the false prophet. The dragon has seven heads and ten horns, as does the beast. Those ten horns of the beast are explicitly described as kings which, Daniel connects with the Roman Empire:

    Dan 7
    [4] The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.
    [5] And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.
    [6] After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.
    [7] After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns....

    [19] Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet;
    [20] And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.

    That leopard-like beast with four heads is obviously Alexander the Great, and the four generals who succeeded him. The ten-horned beast, then, represents the Roman Empire, which succeeded them. That beast is further described in Revelation, as the "beast from the sea":

    Rev 13:
    [1] And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
    [2] And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
    [3] And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

    Rev 16 shows that the leader of the campaign against Israel is descended from the Roman Empire (the WEST of Israel, not the EAST). The "kings of the east" mentioned in Rev 16, therefore, will not be the leaders of the campaign; they will be among the leaders deceived by the three. The three, the "demon-possessing" ones, will be the devil, the false prophet (prob. the "little horn" of Daniel), and the ten kings-- which signify NATO, for anyone who can see the obvious.

    Hitler is not the beast; he is dead. The one who "yet lives, though he died" refers to a type of Antiochus Epiphanes, who will defile the Temple in the last days (cf. Matt 24). Antiochus opposed the Jews, and tried to eradicate their religion. Hitler opposed the Jews, and tried to eradicate their race. Both failed. The antichrist to come will attempt to exterminate the Jewish religion, people and nation.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2013
  10. BlandOatmeal

    BlandOatmeal Regular Member

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    The "kings of the east" are not demon-possessed: No scripture says they are. The ten-headed beast will be demon-possessed, and the demon out of his mouth will deceive kings, including the "kings of the east". cf. Rev. 16
     
  11. BlandOatmeal

    BlandOatmeal Regular Member

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    "Dear Friend of Israel,
    "We know your heart is with us in Israel and we greatly appreciate your offer to volunteer for the Israel Defense Forces.... Among the thousands of Machal volunteers who came to defend the new born State of Israel in 1947-9 there were many non-Jews. They made a tremendous and meaningful contribution during Israel's War of Independence, for which Israelis are very grateful and for which they will always be remembered.

    "Since then however, the policy has been to restrict service in the armed forces to citizens of Israel...

    "You have the opportunity, however, to take your place defending Israel on the ‘public relations front’. Today, wars and battles are often won or lost on TV screens, in the minds and hearts of good people. Therefore, public relations is no less important than planes and tanks..."

    -- Mahal-IDF-Volunteers

    Other opportunities to volunteer are here:

    Mahal - Links, Israel Volunteer Help Programs

    God go with you :wave:
     
  12. I Eat Pie

    I Eat Pie New Member

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    Oh wow. Sounds like something interesting to do after college. It is the field I want to go in after all.
     
  13. BlandOatmeal

    BlandOatmeal Regular Member

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    Wow. Kol haKavod! (All power to you!)

    Meanwhile, current events:

    "Bennett Vindicated as Coalition Crafting Enters Overtime
    Analysis: Likud's behavior shows the reasoning behind Naftali Bennett's decision to enter into a pact with Yesh Atid was sound.
    By Gil Ronen First Publish: 3/1/2013, 12:19 PM

    [​IMG]
    Naftali Bennett
    Israel news photo: Flash 90

    "Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu will meet President Shimon Peres Saturday evening and ask him for a two-week extension in which to put together a coalition of parties and form a new government. Peres will grant Netanyahu the two-week extension. If Netanyahu fails to cobble together a coalition within a fortnight, however, he will be in serious trouble. Peres could decide to task someone else with creating a coalition, or new elections could be called."

    -- Bennett Vindicated; Coalition Crafting in Overtime - Inside Israel - News - Israel National News

    ...and if new elections are called,

    That's a 13-point gain (in a knesset of 120 members) for Lapid and Bennett, mostly at the expense of Netanyahu's Likud, Labor's Yakimovich and Hatnua's Livni. It represents a massive shift to the Right, in terms of Land of Israel issues.

    The issue here, is that Israeli PM Netanyahu appears to be planning a prohibition against Jewish construction of homes, to please Barack Obama and other outsiders. Bennett is solidly against such ideas, which is why Netanyahu is trying to weasel him into a position of weakness. If the PM cannot form a ruling coalition within two weeks, the Israeli voters are likely to send him packing. Netanyahu's predecessor, Ariel Sharon, pulled a similar stunt when he ethnically cleansed Gaza of 10,000 Jews in 2005. Sharon continues to be in a vegetative state, after suffering a massive stroke a few months after the evictions.
     
  14. BlandOatmeal

    BlandOatmeal Regular Member

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    Interpreter,

    I've been pretty brusque with you, and I wish to let you know that nothing personal is intended. I want to get to the bottom of things, and I hope I don't bust up too many water and gas mains in the process.

    One thing you've enlightened me about, is that I now view the end times and the final "battle" in continuous terms, rather than as a single "event". The "battle of Armageddon", for instance, probably won't be a single pitched battle. In fact, it may already be happening... in fact, a good "starting point" for this "battle" may have been 18 May, 1948. I was just pondering these things, and remembered the scripture:

    [1] And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
    [2] And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
    [3] And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
    [4] And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
    [5] And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
    [6] And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days...

    I have always considered the "man child" to be Messiah, who rose from the dead and was "caught up unto God". There are problems with this interpretation, though. If Jesus were the man child, then who is the woman? Mary? That could be, and the "fleeing to the wilderness" could have been the flight of the Holy Family to Egypt. For all I know, in fact, that flight may have been for 3½ years.

    The 3½ year period is mentioned in Revelation, though, as an end-time event, not a flight of Baby Jesus and his parents to Egypt. What's more, Jesus has not yet "ruled the nations with a rod of iron", unless one considers the reign of the Catholic Church in the High Middle Ages as the "rule of Christ". What the scriptures DO say about this time of "rule", though, is that the ruler will be the King of Israel.

    This leads me to think that perhaps the "man child" is the nation of Israel, which was "born" on 18 May 1948. Indeed, the powers of the earth tried to snuff out its existence as soon as it was born, attacking from six directions. The problem in that thinking, is, "Who is the mother"? The trusting church? THEY are the ones who will suffer for 3½ years:

    Rev 12
    [15] And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
    [16] And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
    [17] And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

    Rev 17
    [12] And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
    [13] These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
    [14] These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

    Rev 13
    [4] And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
    [5] And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

    Did the believing church somehow give birth to the modern State of Israel? Bible-believing Christians have certainly been Israel's mainstay in the past several decades. Perhaps the woman has not given birth yet. Perhaps we are still in labor. Israel exists; but is he a MAN child? He is too timid to take control of the Temple Mount, and to rebuild the temple; too timid to definitively say, "No -- We will NOT have two states here; God gave this land to ONE state, and one state only!" They won't do it, because too many of them are waiting for Messiah to do it for them. Maybe Messiah wants to be IN them.

    Shalom shalom :wave:
     
  15. interpreter

    interpreter Senior Member

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    The Battle of Ar Mageddon began on 9/11 when the Euphrates was dry. The only reason Osama attacked the US is because we are the chief ally of Israel.
     
  16. Petrus Romanus

    Petrus Romanus New Member

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    For more than eleven years, Israel has been wildly celebrating the success of its 9/11 operation against the United States of America. The latest example: Israeli children recently dressed up as the burning Twin Towers, complete with impaled exploding airplanes, to celebrate the bizarre Jewish holiday known as Purim.

    Purim exalts and commemorates an ancient operation very much like 9/11. It glorifies the deceptions of Esther, who concealed her Jewish identity to seduce the King of Persia, then slyly tricked him into slaughtering 75,000 people deemed “enemies of the Jews.”

    In other words, Purim celebrates Jews lying, secretly penetrating the highest levels of government, and manipulating the leaders of an empire into mass-murdering perceived “enemies of the Jewish people.” That is exactly what the neoconservative Likudnik extremists - Wolfowitz, Perle, Libby, and the rest - did on September 11th, 2001. The only difference is that these modern, neocon Esthers would eventually kill millions of innocent people, not just 75,000.

    And if they succeed in tricking the US into attacking Iran on behalf of Israel, thereby launching World War III, today's neocon Esthers could kill tens or even hundreds of millions.
     
  17. Petrus Romanus

    Petrus Romanus New Member

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    ''Man plans and God laughs.'' Hebrew proverb

    Trouble as we see it is not how God sees it. Neither is friendship. While most people consider USA to be a friend and ally of Israel, God does not.

    Any nation or group of nations that supports partitioning the land of Israel to give to another nation is an enemy of God. The USA is part of the ''Quartet,'' comprised of USA, Russia, the UN & the EU.

    I was watching this show on Vision TV with Sid Roth and another man who noticed that natural disasters immediately hit a member of the Quartet after making a speech or proposal regarding the partitioning of Israel.

    The weather in the US the last few years has been horrific. Europe's had that heatwave that killed hundreds and freak storms and frigid winters not seen in centuries. The day England rejected an Israeli advertisement to tour Jerusalem (including E. Jerusalem), that volcano from Iceland blew and grounded UK's planes (and their tourism).

    Every overture by the Quartet to partition Israel has been met with God's chastisement, either the same day or the same week. The guest correlated the actions of the Quartet with the prophesy in Zechariah 1:18-21.

    18 Then I raised my eyes and looked, and there were four horns. 19 And I said to the angel who talked with me, “What are these?” So he answered me, “These are the horns that have scattered Judah, Israel, and Jerusalem.” 20 Then the Lord showed me four craftsmen. 21 And I said, “What are these coming to do?”

    So he said, “These are the horns that scattered Judah, so that no one could lift up his head; but the craftsmen are coming to terrify them, to cast out the horns of the nations that lifted up their horn (singular as is the Quartet) against the land of Judah to scatter it.”


    The only way that destruction and captivity can afflict Israel, as it was in the Old Testament, is by Israel's own disobedience and their spiritual ''adultery.''

    The Book of Daniel, the Gospels, and Revelation all allude to the Antichrist who will declare himself God on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem and lay waste to the nations of the Earth, starting with Israel.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2013
  18. BlandOatmeal

    BlandOatmeal Regular Member

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    On Purim, Jews traditionally dress up in costumes. I dressed as a Baptist minister.
     
  19. BlandOatmeal

    BlandOatmeal Regular Member

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    Hi, Petrus.

    The way you wrote this, I imagined you and Sid Roth sitting together, watching TV.

    [​IMG]

    I don't know Sid, but have heard his name bandied about. :)

    God judges everyone fairly, according to his works; but sometimes, the bulk of that judgment comes in the life to come. Israeli PM Ariel ("Arik") Sharon was felled by a massive stroke after evicting 10,000 Jews from their homes in Gaza. If that was a judgment from God, then Arik can count his blessings -- it's better to be judged in this life, than in eternity.

    Israel has many friends in the US, and many enemies. In recent years, we have been upholding Israel in the UN while undermining her elsewhere. The leaders of Israel, including the current PM Bibi Netanyahyu, have been doing the same to their own country. As you say, God laughs from heaven at the plots of men.

    I believe we are in the last of the last days, and I agree with you that the climate gone awry, along with an increase in heavenly happenings (Tunguska, Shoemaker Levy 9, Chelyabinsk) as well as earthly disasters (Krakatoa, Mt. St. Helens, the Indonesian tsunami) and human-caused disasters (Chernobyl, Fukushima, two calamitous world wars) are forebodings of a planet about to "give birth". I also see the current stockpile of tens of thousands of immensely powerful nuclear weapons as a continuing warning that the world as we know it could be wiped out in one day. It doesn't take a prophetic gift to see these things, just common sense.

    One thing I've determined in my heart, is that there is no place safer, in times like these, than living one's life in a way that pleases the God of Israel.

    Shalom shalom :wave:
     
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  20. BlandOatmeal

    BlandOatmeal Regular Member

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    I don't know what bearing this has on the war against Israel, other than the fact that it will probably delay hostilities between Israel and Egypt for a bit:

    [​IMG]

    "Locust swarms reach Israel, Jordan from Egypt
    DEBKAfile March 4, 2013, 8:28 PM (GMT+02:00)

    "Israel’s Agriculture Ministry has set up a hot line for helping farmers manage the destruction wrought by swarms of locusts which Monday flew in from Egypt where they devastated crops. The swarm consists of an estimated 30 million insects. The first were seen in the Negev Kadesh Barnea area. The UN FAO sent out prior warnings to Egypt, Jordan and Israel. Sightings should be phoned in to the Tel Aviv locust hot line at 03-968-1500."

    -- Locust swarms reach Israel, Jordan from Egypt

    Egypt's internal situation just seems to be worsening by the day. Of course, there has been political unrest over President Morsi's high-handedness. Now, besides this, there has been:


    Kerry talks economics, finds Morsi preoccupied with Islamizing Egypt
    DEBKAfile Exclusive Report March 4, 2013, 4:26 AM (GMT+02:00)

    "Visiting US Secretary of State John Kerry talked at length to Egyptian President Morsi in Cairo, Sunday, March 3, about Egypt’s calamitous economic straits, relations with Israel, democratization and essential reforms. Morsi nodded politely but, debkafile reports, was completely wrapped up in the ongoing plan he and the Muslim Brotherhood had hatched for Islamizing Egypt and seizing 100 percent of parliament in the next election – April or June..."

    -- Kerry talks economics, finds Morsi preoccupied with Islamizing Egypt

    and this:

    "Sunday, March 3, 2013
    Climate change and water mismanagement parch Egypt

    “'Egypt loses about 50% of its freshwater through poor maintenance of
    supplies and distribution problems, and the water is polluted,'”

    Louise Sarant Egypt Independent Tue, 26/02/2013 - 14:25
    Climate change and water mismanagement parch Egypt | Egypt Independent

    The water shortage & consequences are covered in Isaiah 19. The locusts? That's more of a periodic thing, but Egypt is so fragile now that crop losses due to locusts exacerbate things. If bad news like this continues, the Egyptians might begin to think their Pharaoh is being bested by the God of the Jews.

    Not just Egypt is being affected; Israel and Jordan will get locusts too. Curious, huh?