The United States of Europe - Mr. President

Douggg

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Just a few days ago, it caught my attention, the Italian PM Letta called for an United States of Europe, which is a European federal government with a directly elected leader from the people. When that comes to pass, and there are ten kings making up that government - as well; the directly elected leader could be the Antichrist.

Will the Europeans unwittingly elect the Antichrist to power? I think it is a good possibility.

Doug
 

Douggg

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WHEN there is a United States of Europe
WHEN this U.S.E. consists of 10 nations
WHEN it elects it's President
THEN you can think/worry about it.

In the meantime, give SOME consideration to the idea that the current Pope MIGHT be the false prophet.

It may not be 10 nations, but a group of ten representatives of ten districts of the EU. A district, for example, may end up including several nations like Spain and Portugal. Or may one district representing Luxemburg, Netherlands, Holland. That way all the current countries of the EU would be involved.


Doug
 
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Douggg

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All conjecture .... never materializing ... and it will not

The Bible has the truth on the matter

Those who speculate on a western "anti-christ" are looking in the wrong place

I think it is very likely. There is nothing in the bible that contradicts it from happening.


Doug
 
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Douggg

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There is nothing in the visions of the Bible prophets about it at all Doug .... not there

This should be more than sufficient contradiction

Virtually any kind of speculation can be inserted by imagination even when the thing is not there ... but this is very problematic and not to be done

What "this" ? You haven't given a single verse.

Where is Rome? What was the fourth empire? Where is the Italian PM Letta from? What country? You are not on top of things, TW. The EU fiscal crisis has pushed the agenda for a United States of Europe in the last several years. Did you know that Cyprus is part of the EU?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5As19UMCy5c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBu87fU01as


Doug
 
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T

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I think you are wrong along with all of those you listen to ..... ancient Rome is in the dust bin of history .... not to be revived

In fact there is no "European" [western] setting recorded in any vision of the Bible prophets

All of this idea is only speculative and inserted

The 4th kingdom of Daniel's visions was not Rome .... but a future Middle Eastern kingdom

As I have pointed out to you before .... Rome did not begin as two rival kingdoms one north and one south of Israel [two Iron legs]

This setting is still to come .... a continuation of the ancient Seleucid and Ptolemaic rulers just before the first century [brass thighs]

It is the northern division [iron leg] of the same setting that will produce the little horn of Daniel's visions .... and this king will conquer the king of the south [Egypt .... the other iron leg] at the time appointed

Then will his kingdom of iron and clay be formed ..... in the Middle East
 
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Douggg

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I think you are wrong along with all of those you listen to ..... ancient Rome is in the dust bin of history .... not to be revived

In fact there is no "European" [western] setting recorded in any vision of the Bible prophets

All of this idea is only speculative and inserted

The 4th kingdom of Daniel's visions was not Rome .... but a future Middle Eastern kingdom

Who was the fourth kingdom at the time of Jesus?

As I have pointed out to you before .... Rome did not begin as two rival kingdoms one north and one south of Israel [two Iron legs]
What? Where are you getting the north and south of Israel in Daniel 2 and 7 ?

This setting is still to come .... a continuation of the ancient Seleucid and Ptolemaic rulers just before the first century [brass thighs]

Neither of those are in Daniel 2 and Daniel 7. The statue doesn't have four legs - the number of the breakup kingdoms.

It is the northern division [iron leg] of the same setting that will produce the little horn of Daniel's visions .... and this king will conquer the king of the south [Egypt .... the other iron leg] at the time appointed
There would have to be four legs in the statue dream of Daniel to correspond to the four breakup kingdoms.

Then will his kingdom of iron and clay be formed ..... in the Middle East
:doh:

Doug
 
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John S

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Doug - Everything that you say is MAY. This MAY happen. That MAY happen.
When it does, then you will be correct.

TW - The antichrist WILL be western. He will be from the Tribe of Dan of the House of Israel. It is my opinion, that he will be from Italy - so that is where I am looking.
The AC will most definitely NOT be Islamic.
 
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Douggg

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Doug - Everything that you say is MAY. This MAY happen. That MAY happen.
When it does, then you will be correct.

TW - The antichrist WILL be western. He will be from the Tribe of Dan of the House of Israel. It is my opinion, that he will be from Italy - so that is where I am looking.
The AC will most definitely NOT be Islamic.

The Antichrist will come out of end times Roman Empire, not may. He will come up among concurrent ten kings of that end times Roman Empire, not may.

And it will happen before the parable of the fig tree generation passes away, not may.

So, while the bible doesn't use the words EU. The direction that the EU is moving is not a stretch to be how the Antichrist will come to power, imo.


Doug
 
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Douggg

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Hi Doug

I agree there will be a final version of the Holy Roman Empire. But the people will not elect the AC. Scripture is clear the Ten leaders will willingly give their power over to him when he rises from the pit. He is not elected by the people.

Well that's a little futher down the road from when the Antichrist person first comes to power... that the beast gets involved.

The Antichrist first comes to power as the last king of the 7 kings of the Roman Empire of the Julio-Claudian bloodline.... as the leader of the final form of the EU. For that position, he could be elected.

Here is the sequence with and without the beast being involved.

1. The Antichrist becomes leader of Europe, when they have a ten king governement. He is the little horn. The beast though is in the bottomless pit, not yet allowed out, when the little horn comes to power.

2. The Antichrist little horn leader of Europe stands up, prepares to stop the Gog/Magog invasion, staging his EU army in Greece.

3. Gog/Magog takes place and God supernaturally destroys them. The little horn Antichrist arrives in Israel just short of the destruction. The Jews though perceive his actions to come to battle in defending Israel, as him being their long awaited messiah. He has such an ego, that he fancies himself in that role.

4. The Antichrist little horn, now the Prince who shall come in Daniel 9, as the Jews perceived messiah, oversees the commemorative reading required by Moses to all generations in Deuteronomy 31:10-11, every 7 years - confirming the Mt Sinai covenant that God gave them the land.

5. The Antichrist false king messiah near the middle of the 7 year cycle, sells out to Satan, betraying his land and his people. Entered into by Satan goes into the temple and declares that he is God, revealing himself as the man of sin. Still not the beast though. The beast is still in the bottomless pit.

God has him killed for his action. Ezekiel 28:1-10.

6. The Antichrist, revealed man of sin, dead, d e a d, finds himself in hell, in Isaiah 14. But God has such a disdain for him, that He doesn't let him stay there, and kicks him out of the grave, bringing him back to life, the head that had been mortally wounded but come back to life.

It is then that in Revelation 13, with 42 months left, that the beast in the bottomless pit becomes involved. He is allowed to come out of his holding cell. That beast person has been a long time enemy to God, going all the way back to the Babylon, tower of Babel. all the false religions that have stemmed from it, Nimrod.

The unclean spirit of Nimrod (the best candidate imo to be the beast) will possess the come back to life Antichrist. It is then 42 months of Nimrod's spirit driving the Antichrist, to lead the world in rebellion against God just like back in the days of the tower of Babel - one world. Of course Satan will be empowering him too.

During the last 42 months, the ten kings which as the little horn he first came from years before, all buy into his claim of being God. They pledge their kingdom to him. Which the Vatican and it's declaration that Jesus is God - will be in direct conflict with the Antichrist-beast and his ten king power block. So the ten kings of Europe will burn the Vatican to the ground.


Doug
 
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Douggg

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Hi Doug

Doug Doug Doug


Where is your scripture to show the Beast possess anything???????

There are angels and unclean spirits in the bottomless pit. The number of the beast in Revelation 13 is the number of a man, not an angel. That leaves the beast, what can be viewed, as being a man, which the only possible choice is that the end times Antichrist will become possessed by the unclean spirit of the beast.

Since the beast was and is not - is language that he was alive but is not means that the beast in the bottomless pit is not a angel. I think we have discussed this before. Nimrod is the likely candidate because he was connected to the original tower of Babel, which is associated with Mystery Babylon the Great of the end times. There is also language that Nimrod was Nephillim to some degree, which would be necessary for his disembodied spirit to be in the bottomless pit.

Not counting Satan, there is no other angel figure in the bible connected to the Tower of Babel that I am aware of.


Doug
 
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T

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Abaddon is an angel Doug [Revelation 9:11] ... and so is Satan

Both were present and ruling over ancient Babel [kingdom of Babylon], the one just before it, the next 3 Middle Eastern Kingdoms after .... and two that are coming for a total of 7 [Revelation 17:8-14]

These 7 kingdoms of the Middle East are their 7 "heads" [kingdoms with human king positions] .... one after the other with a break between the 5th and 6th

And the number of the human little horn is the same as the beast [13:18]

.... and Nimrod is dead .... it is appointed to a man once to die and then his judgment will come [Revelation 20:11-15]

When you make statements like this your opponents will take advantage

Do not leave holes in your teaching .... those who come to banter with you will look for them
 
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Douggg

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Abaddon is an angel Doug [Revelation 9:11] ... and so is Satan

And the number of the human little horn is the same as the beast [13:18]

.... and Nimrod is dead .... it is appointed to a man once to die and then his judgment will come [Revelation 20:11-15]

When you make statements like this your opponents will take advantage

Do not leave holes in your teaching .... those who come to banter with you will look for them

How can it be a hole if it says directly in the text that it is the number of a man. The end times Antichrist will be a man. The beast is used in Revelation 13, that he possesses the Antichrist. The Antichrist himself will be a man. Where's the hole?

God has him killed, then brings him back to life - 42 months later to the lake of fire.

Revelation 20:11-15 doesn't apply to the Antichrist-beast, because in Revelation 20:10 he will have been in the lake of fire for 1000 years ahead of the Great White Throne judgment.

Where's my sock? I was in the process of putting my shoes on to go to the store about three hours ago, until you guys decided to start posting...:wave:

Doug
 
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T

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"How can it be a hole if it says directly in the text that it is the number of a man"


Come on Doug .... Revelation 13:18 explicitly tells that the number is of "the beast" and also the same of a human

Do you know why your idea is a "hole' in your teaching?

The hole is one that you yourself missed until recently that the beast is not a human .... most expounders of prophecy do not see this, and so they will discount the truth about it which leads them off course and to many other ideas of men

You are not getting it ... Abaddon does not have to be brought back to life .... this fallen angel has existed since the beginning of his creation

He can use any human who is living to possess and use for his manifestation upon the earth when he come out of the abyss

But it will be a particular human living at the time [not a dead one] .... the human little horn of Daniel's visions .... this man symbolically called the "Assyrian" will not be some dead guy of the past

And he will appear in the northern Middle East and move quickly and will conquer it all to form his knigdon there .... and Abaddon will emerge from his prison in the abyss and take full possession of him at his beginnings .... and actual incarnation

Abaddon will do this so that he can appear visibly and interact with humanity ... a fallen angel with a human front ... this combination will astonish those who look on, and his power will be far beyond that of any human [2 Thessalonians 2:8-12]

This beast is Satan's top gun who will come out in the open on the earth at the beginning of the tribulation period .... none like this one has ever been allowed to directly interact with humans .... his presence will shake the earth and his followers will worship him

All that he sets out to do will succeed during the tribulation .... until the Lord turns on him and destroys him at Armageddon [Revelation 13:1-4; 19:20]
 
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Douggg

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"How can it be a hole if it says directly in the text that it is the number of a man"


Come on Doug .... Revelation 13:18 explicitly tells that the number is of "the beast" and also the same of a human

Do you know why your idea is a "hole' in your teaching?

The hole is one that you yourself missed until recently that the beast is not a human .... most expounders of prophecy do not see this, and so they will discount the truth about it which leads them off course and to many other ideas of men

What do you mean by recently? I have been studying this topic for over 40 years. I'll soon be 65. http://www.christianforums.com/t7743411/

The beast in Revelation 13 is the Antichrist-beast. The beast, as an unclean spirit, will ascend out of the bottomless pit to possess the Antichrist man.

You are not getting it ... Abaddon does not have to be brought back to life .... this fallen angel has existed since the beginning of his creation
You are not getting it that Abaddon is an angel over the tormenting locust.

Abaddon as an angel has not experienced death, and thus is not qualified to be the beast which was, and is not. In the second part of Revelation 17:8, it talks about the end times Antichrist who will be mortally wounded, and comes back to life, which people will wondered at and worship - the same type language, was, is not, yet is. The world as a whole, excluding the saints, will worship the Antichrist.
He can use any human who is living to possess and use for his manifestation upon the earth when he come out of the abyss
But an angel, any angel does not qualify because Angels do not die
to be the beast in the bottomless pit. Nephillim die.

But it will be a particular human living at the time [not a dead one] .... the human little horn of Daniel's visions .... this man symbolically called the "Assyrian" will not be some dead guy of the past
Nimrod was an Assyrian. And it says the land of Nimrod in the contents of the passage that you are referring to.

And he will appear in the northern Middle East and move quickly and will conquer it all to form his knigdon there .... and Abaddon will emerge from his prison in the abyss and take full possession of him at his beginnings .... and actual incarnation
:doh: The little horn waxes strong from a location north and west of Israel. As the prince who shall come, he is of the people who destroyed the city and sanctuary. The little horn of Roman descent, coming out of the fourth empire.

Abaddon will do this so that he can appear visibly and interact with humanity ... a fallen angel with a human front ... this combination will astonish those who look on, and his power will be far beyond that of any human [2 Thessalonians 2:8-12]

I would suggest that you take a look at that chart I made of the four stages of the Antichrist's career.

Doug
 
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Gee, you're awfully sure that this will happen. I for one, think it's bosh. It won't happen. We're talking about sovereign nations that have been around for over a millennia, for better or for worse. They're not going to suddenly become some conglomerate of states subordinate to a centralized power. And don't try to tell me that the EU is some sort of predecessor to a "US of E", it's an economic and political alliance not a sovereign political entity in and of itself.
 
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