The Unforgiveable Sin

[1whirlwind]

And I don't believe that ANY SIN is ever forgiven of THE DEVIL. There is the unforgiveable SIN and the SINNER all in ONE PACKAGE.

I do NOT have to smear my fellow man with that view either. Scripture has provided us a REASONABLE place to lay the blame without looking upon our fellow man WITH ETERNAL DEATH to them painted all over our innards...

sorry if this offends you...but WE all have been commanded to LOVE all our fellow man.

I'm not offended at all Squint and I agree....the devil is condemned. He will never be forgiven. However, I'm not looking to place blame or eternal death on anyone. Nor do I believe does our Father. For that reason He warns....there is one sin, not one sinner/devil, that will not be forgiven.

I cannot SEE THAT while painting the other PEOPLE with ETERNAL DEATH. That methodology to me will remain FALSE, VOID, DEAD and UNFORGIVEABLE all coming from the POWER OF DEATH/the DEVIL within those whom it OPENLY operates WITHIN.

s

It is not what I see or what you see. We are not the One forgiving or not forgiving. It is what is written. There is only one sin that has no chance of being forgiven. That, as written, is to blaspheme the Holy Spirit. When can that happen?

Mark 13:9-11 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for My sake, for a testimony against them. And the gospel must first be published among all nations. But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.
​

 

[squint]

but does this mean that only satan is punished for his sin and involvement in other's sin? or is man, especially when is involved in the sin and will not repent, slated for the same fate?

Any believer who looks upon themselves in these matters will be able to see with TWO EYES open.

One is the eye of LOVE from God to themselves and from there ''hopefully" some spills out to our fellow man.

The other is to the EYE of eternal judgment for every sin that transpired therein in their OWN flesh and mind, and this eye also can be seen for other people knowing that they are not one whit different than you in the facts of their EVIL PRESENT which you also HAVE.

So if you tell me 'your evil present' is 'more responsible' or 'more right' than some other persons, I will continue to say, uh, NO, it is NOT. That evil present IS what it IS. No man can make that presence HOLY or RIGHT or FORGIVEN or 'more responsible or legal.' The best they can do is to COVER IT UP so it doesn't leak out. The fact remains however that IT IS THERE within ALL of us regardless of what we 'see' on the outside.

This is why I observe with external legalists that even THINKING of SIN has shown the FACT within. They don't seem to like to hear this fact however, and that too is just anther testimony of failure to come to the table with HONESTY and thinking that EXTERNAL OBEDIENCE is some sort of a PERFORMANCE MEASURE when it is NOT. The measure IS INTERNAL, always has been, always will be.

No, NO persons evil present is one whit better than anyone else's.

part of your argument seems to a sophisticated 'the devil made me do it'

STOP RIGHT THERE...I have NEVER made that statement!

The DEVIL makes YOU as Gods child do NOTHING. It is every bit the fact that when THE DEVIL SINS in the flesh or the MIND it IS THE DEVIL who has enslaved both MIND and FLESH to perform that SIN.

If you are led to BLAME PETER for the DEVIL/SATAN speaking through him or to BLAME JUDAS for Satan 'entering' him, I will only say that IT is the DEVIL SPEAKING through that viewer.

argument ultimately satan is the father of lies and other sin, but isn't man's responsibility for his own sin?

Whatever action you THINK you can 'employ' to CHANGE the DEVIL or what HE DOES is quite laughable. You do not make THE DEVIL more responsible. To even try to DO SO will only make one more BLIND to his presence, thinking that they have MADE THAT WORKING into 'good.'

No, it's not possible. The devil is who he is and not a single thing you think about it or do about it is going to CHANGE the devil and what the DEVIL does.

The SIN that does transpire IN US (and it surely DOES) IS OURS as it pertains to OUR FLESH. Yes, that is what we do carry and that BURDEN is ours as it pertains to our flesh.

People can tell me that the DEVIL never brings a SINFUL THOUGHT to their minds or when it happens it is NOT a SIN...but that is only another LIE.

For every non-pork eater who is honest they should be able to say 'the thought has crossed my mind.' And when it does, THAT is a sin. Sorry. Just as much as EATING same. That is precisely what THE LAW is supposed to be showing us...The Law in this way is NOT a deceiver, but a REVEALER of the fact that EVIL is present with us. The Law in this way IS MY ALLY to expose THAT FACT to me.

It is however quite stupid to think that EVIL PRESENT is going to be LAWFUL in relation to the LAW, when the fact of EVIL PRESENT's reaction to the LAW is the exact OPPOSITE.

You can force your evil present away from the pork eating table...but that does not mean you were successful in stopping SINFUL THOUGHTS that are brought on BY THE LAW...which are just as much the SIN as the eating. Not eating pork didn't make EVIL PRESENT one whit better or one whit DIFFERENT nor did it ERADICATE evil present from 'being there' within. The LAW is to alert us to THE FACT...not to cover it up or arouse it by trying to PLACE IT under the LAW to make it OBEDIENT. That will NEVER happen!

obviously one is saved by christ when we come in faith and repentance ao we don't have to worry about paying the penalty if we abide in him, but recognition that satan dwells in us alone and that is why we sin doesn't say much and contributes to the 'devil made me do' argument;

I have never made that argument. Yet why is it that nearly EVERYONE hears it that way? Think about it and we'll SEE who gets back to me in truth?

I understand that satan works within us but he also resonates with the evil that originated within us in the first place.

I see that statement as DEVIL ORIGINATED as well. Sorry to tell you.

I have cited Jesus' statements to you MANY times about how SATAN ENTERS...yet you STILL want to blame MANKIND ONLY for that origination...and in that you too have been 'revealed' as to what is happening within your flesh and mind. You merely deny THE FACTS that Jesus told us HAPPENS.

Where the Word is sown SATAN ENTERS. This is a very scriptural FACT.

What you are led to do however is to BLAME THE MAN for that happening. Jesus doesn't do such things. Jesus blames SATAN for THEFT.

when adam sinned not the devil he brought death into the world. adam acted as a free agent and chose evil the deveil didn't make him or eve to sin.

You may view what happened to ADAM in this thread if you please to comment on it.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7404208/

enjoy!

squint

 

[1whirlwind]

the unforgivable sins are presumptuous living and not asking for forgiveness any sin. for the most part the unpardonable sin is one which isn't brought forward to Christ

There is only one sin that cannot be forgiven. Even murder and rape, which will not be forgiven in this flesh life...may, if He so decides, forgive later. There is one sin that will not be forgiven....ever.

 

[squint]

I'm not offended at all Squint and I agree....the devil is condemned. He will never be forgiven. However, I'm not looking to place blame or eternal death on anyone. Nor do I believe does our Father. For that reason He warns....there is one sin, not one sinner/devil, that will not be forgiven.

It is not what I see or what you see. We are not the One forgiving or not forgiving. It is what is written. There is only one sin that has no chance of being forgiven. That, as written, is to blaspheme the Holy Spirit. When can that happen?

Mark 13:9-11 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for My sake, for a testimony against them. And the gospel must first be published among all nations. But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.
​

Then USING your own measure PETER was CONDEMNED for SATAN blaspheming to the very FACE of Jesus.

I do not think Peter was SATAN.

If we see the FACT that where JESUS sows HIS WORD, then SATAN shows up where it was sown (in Peter or in Judas) it is insane to blame PETER or JUDAS for the fact of SATAN'S ENTRANCE into them actually happening.

s

 

[1whirlwind]

There is no doubt to me that the DEVIL is involved in EVERY SIN. 1 John 3:8 makes this very clear. So it is quite pointless to judge ANY matter of sin APART from THE DEVIL.

I have no use to believe that PAUL was the EVIL PRESENT that he openly stated HE HAD. No, Paul admitted the sin that indwelt him WAS NOT HIM...just as I believe the EVIL PRESENT with Paul was not him. Gods children whom PAUL WAS are not the 'same as' that working. It's not possible. Saul was BLINDED UNDER THAT POWER OF SATAN/SIN. In that way he was A CARNAL SLAVE...and that slaveship as it pertained to the reactions of EVIL PRESENT with THE LAW OF SIN did not change after his conversion. He still FOUND LIFE in the midst of that FACT.

Some see it. Most are NOT slated to SEE it.

Mankind as it pertains to our flesh IS PUNISHED by physical death because of the occupancy of SIN therein. That however is not enough for many of you, who INSIST that sin transpiring in the flesh of ALL must be carried past the GRAVE unto those in whom it was carried.

Paul tells us this about SIN and when 'anyone' is 'freed' from same:

Romans 6:7
because anyone who has died has been freed from sin.

Romans 6:6-7 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.

When our "old man" is dead we are free from sin.

The devil and his messengers WILL BE PERMANENTLY punished for ALL of their actions within mankind.

Mankind will be FORGIVEN of every sin including BLASPHEMY because of the involvement of the DEVIL AND HIS MESSENGERS in every one of those matters.

That is NOT what is written.

In this way it is ENTIRELY POSSIBLE to actually LOVE all our neighbors as ourselves AND to abide in understandings of ETERNAL JUDGMENTS.

But in order to 'do this' we MUST come to the TRUTH of these facts which ONLY God can lead any person INTO. If not, then that is where God wants that person...it is HE who has raised up that OTHER POWER in the flesh of that person and THAT POWER cannot stand IN THE LIGHT. It's NOT POSSIBLE for the DEVIL to speak the TRUTH of these matters.

When I say this: I HAVE EVIL PRESENT WITH ME THAT IS OF THE DEVIL I am speaking the TRUTH. Devils in men cannot stand to make that statement NOR will they 'allow' their SLAVES that much TRUTH.

enjoy!

squint

He has raised the other power but He expect us to overcome that power. He died for the forgiveness of all sins we repent of but not ONE.

 

[1whirlwind]

Then USING your own measure PETER was CONDEMNED for SATAN blaspheming to the very FACE of Jesus.

I do not think Peter was SATAN.

If we see the FACT that where JESUS sows HIS WORD, then SATAN shows up where it was sown (in Peter or in Judas) it is insane to blame PETER or JUDAS for the fact of SATAN'S ENTRANCE into them actually happening.

s

Nor do I think Peter was Satan.

To me what you are saying is not taking responsibility for one's actions...no matter how difficult they may be. It is saying...the devil made me do it. He has never placed us in any spot (Peter and Judas included) that we couldn't get out of. Even when we didn't get out of them, even when we did committ the sin....we can be forgiven through His love, except for one.

1 Corinthians 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

​

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

This one commentator had an interesting commentary on this topic and one thing I like about him is the way he delves into the Greek.
I have always said "translations are the bain of Christianity". Be that as it may, here is a snip.....God bless

Kindgdom Bible Studies Savior of the World Series Part 14
THE UNPARDONABLE SIN

*snip*

...............While the King James version states that the sin against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven in this world nor in the world to come, that is not quite the meaning of the Greek. The Greek word here translated "world" is AION. This word AION has been translated into fifteen different English words and phrases, many of which convey the wrong meaning entirely.

The simple meaning of AION is "age." An AION is "an age." Two AION(S) are two "ages." A thousand AION(S) are a thousand "ages." Some of the passages where AION is found will give us added information concerning it. In Eph. 2:7 we find, "in the ages (aions) to come." In Col. 1:26 we find, "the mystery which has been hid from ages (aions)."

In Eph. 2:2 we find, "you walked according to the course (aion) of this world." In Heb. 1:2 we find, "by whom also He made the worlds (aions)." In Hebrews 11:3 we find, "the worlds (aions) were formed by the word of God." In about fifteen instances, such as Mat. 12:32, I Cor. 1:20, etc., we find it rendered "this world (aion)."

Twice we find "this present world (aion)." In Gal. 1:4 we find, "deliver us from this present evil world (aion)." In Eph. 6:12 we find, "the rulers of the darkness of this world (aion)." In II Cor. 4:4 we find, "the god of this world (aion)." In I Cor. 2:6 we find, "the wisdom of this world (aion)." In Mk. 4:19 we find, "the cares of this world (aion)."

How much clearer and understandable it would be if the translators had used the correct word age instead of world! In Mk. 10:30 we find that there is not only this present aion, which is evil, but also "the world (aion) to come." Certainly this present age is an evil age, and the rulers of the darkness of this age are evil...............

 

[Hentenza]

To extend this...the belief that there is a sin so bad that it cannot / will not be forgiven. Perhaps a better way to think of it is more along the lines of impenitence...either the obstinate refusal / continual perserverance in sin until death along with my above remarks.

The idea that it is merely death without beliving is a interpretation that is strongly influenced by baptist and reformed theology and it lacks some of the nuance and understanding necessary, i think.

Just the understanding difference between saving faith and nominal faith by faith plus works camps. Didn't Jesus said the those that are His no one can take away?

 

[Hentenza]

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

At the end of this age there are the spiritually living and the spiritually dead. Those living in Christ are of the first resurrection and they will be immortal, for concerning them...."the second death hath no power." The others are the spiritually dead but they are not destroyed.
​

20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

As priests they will teach the others (from the millennial chapter)....."And they shall teach My People the difference between the holy and profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean." [Ezekiel 44:23]
​

20:7-8 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Who does he deceive? Not the spiritually living. Rather it is some of those considered the dead...quite a few of those! They weren't literally dead.
​

20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

God "devoured" those that followed Satan so who are these "dead" being judged?
​

20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

There are many in the world that never had a chance to love our Father. They will be given that chance.
​

There are several problems with the above.

1. Those that are going to be priests of God and of Christ in verse 6 are those who's second resurrection will have no power over. There is no relationship or teaching between those of the first resurrection and those of the second resurrection. Ezekiel 44 is not referring to those of the second resurrection. There is simply no typology to that effect.

2. The nations referred to in verses 7 & 8 are indeed the nations of the millennium not folks that are yet to be part of the second resurrection. As a matter of fact, the great white throne where the folks that are part of the second resurrection has not yet occurred which means that they are still dead.

3. Those being judged in verse 12 are unbelievers since believers where already resurrected in the first resurrection.

There is simply no biblical evidence to suggest that those that die unbelievers will be given a second choice to repent. Faith is a necessary component of belief and it is absolutely necessary for salvation. One can not have "faith" after death.

 

[annrobert]

Giver
All a person who believes they know God, and still sins, can do is try to prove John didn’t mean what he wrote. Well there is something else a sinner could do. A sinner could go to God and find out how to live a sinless life.

Giver
If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies.

James 4:17
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal


11For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

12Then said he also to him that bade him, When thou makest a dinner or a supper, call not thy friends, nor thy brethren, neither thy kinsmen, nor thy rich neighbours; lest they also bid thee again, and a recompence be made thee.
13But when thou makest a feast, call the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind: 14And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee:


This all includes much more than just not hurting someone intentionally,many sinners even do that.


23Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;

24Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
25Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
26Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.
27Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
29And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
31It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:
32But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
33Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:
34But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
35Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
36Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.
37But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.
38Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
40And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.
41And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
42Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
43Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?



9And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
10Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. 14I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

John 6:29
Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

2For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

3For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

30What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

31But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; 33As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

blessings

 

[Giver]

James 4:17
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal


11For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

12Then said he also to him that bade him, When thou makest a dinner or a supper, call not thy friends, nor thy brethren, neither thy kinsmen, nor thy rich neighbours; lest they also bid thee again, and a recompence be made thee.
13But when thou makest a feast, call the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind: 14And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee:


This all includes much more than just not hurting someone intentionally,many sinners even do that.


23Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;

24Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
25Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
26Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.
27Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
29And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
31It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:
32But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
33Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:
34But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
35Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
36Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.
37But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.
38Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
40And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.
41And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
42Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
43Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?



9And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
10Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. 14I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

John 6:29
Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

2For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

3For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

30What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

31But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; 33As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

blessings

Amen!

 

[annrobert]

Giver
If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies.

Giver
All a person who believes they know God, and still sins, can do is try to prove John didn’t mean what he wrote. Well there is something else a sinner could do. A sinner could go to God and find out how to live a sinless life

We as christians still sin , we do not always keep all Jesus commands .
When we know to do good and do it not we sin.Everyday we do not do everything we know we should.
Thankfully when we confess our sins Jesus forgives us.
Every christian who has sinned since knowing the Truth is NOT doomed to hell.
The blood of Jesus cleanses us from ALL unrighteousness.


1 John 1

7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Galations 3
2This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

3Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
4Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
5He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
6Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. 7Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham


I think we should be careful not to fall from grace.
We can do nothing without Jesus.
We must abide in Jesus to bear fruit.
Our righteousness is of God and not ourselves.
If we do fall from grace we need to quickly get back under grace and not trust in our own works.

 

[Giver]

We as christians still sin , we do not always keep all Jesus commands .
When we know to do good and do it not we sin.Everyday we do not do everything we know we should.
Thankfully when we confess our sins Jesus forgives us.
Every christian who has sinned since knowing the Truth is NOT doomed to hell.
The blood of Jesus cleanses us from ALL unrighteousness.


1 John 1

7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Galations 3
2This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

3Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
4Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
5He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
6Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. 7Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham


I think we should be careful not to fall from grace.
We can do nothing without Jesus.
We must abide in Jesus to bear fruit.
Our righteousness is of God and not ourselves.
If we do fall from grace we need to quickly get back under grace and not trust in our own works.

You have spent so much time and effort to try and convince me that I am wrong. Don’t waste your time. Jesus sat next to me and taught me about sin. Jesus personally taught me that Christians are dead to sin. You are just repeating all the teaching that I have had before, from man.

It seem impossible for man to not ever deliberately sin. I know that I will never be able to bring people to the understanding that a person who knows God will not sin. That is why Jesus has me talk so much about a personal relationship with him.

Do yourself a favor and read Romans seven and then Romans eight. Paul is trying to explain that when one becomes spiritual they are able to defeat Satan/sin.

There are many verses in the Bible that tell us we are dead to sin. Without God’s personal intervention people are blind to that truth.

I am only sharing what Jesus has personally taught me.

The Bible has many words and teachings, but a person can only understand those words and teachings if God teaches him or her.

(1 Corinthians 2:10-16) “These are the very things that God has revealed to us through the Spirit, for the Spirit reaches the depts. Of everything, even the depths of God. After all, the depths of a man can only be known by his own spirit, not by any other man, and in the same way the depths of God can only be known by the Spirit of God. Now instead of the spirit of the world, we have received the Spirit that comes from God, to teach us to understand the gifts that he has given us. Therefore we teach, not in the way in which philosophy is taught, but in the way that the Spirit teaches us: we teach spiritual things spiritually. A spiritual man, on the other hand, is able to judge the value of everything and his own value in not to be judged by other men. As scripture says;’ who can know the mind of the Lord, so who can teach him?’ But we are those who have the mind of Christ.”

 

[annrobert]

I do not know any christian who has not sinned since knowing the truth including myself by comission and or omission.
We are Not doomed
We are forgiven and cleansed by the blood of Jesus from all unrighteousness
backsliders are also restored and forgiven just like the prodigal
by Jesus our Lord and Saviour.
Our righteousness is of God saith the Lord.

15And it came to pass, that, as Jesus sat at meat in his house, many publicans and sinners sat also together with Jesus and his disciples: for there were many, and they followed him.

16And when the scribes and Pharisees saw him eat with publicans and sinners, they said unto his disciples, How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners? 17When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

 

[squint]

Nor do I think Peter was Satan.

To me what you are saying is not taking responsibility for one's actions...no matter how difficult they may be.

Sorry 1w. Neither of us will be making Satan responsible. It ain't gonna happen.

It is saying...the devil made me do it.

Uh, no, the devil does what the devil does. IF you want to be the one taking his thoughts as YOURS and being responsible for THE DEVIL, good luck with that.

He has never placed us in any spot (Peter and Judas included) that we couldn't get out of. Even when we didn't get out of them, even when we did committ the sin....we can be forgiven through His love, except for one.

What makes you so sure that it is NOT the devil ALONE in THE PERSON who commits that dire sin that you seek so adamantly to (TORTURE/SEPARATE/ANNIHILATE) you or your fellow man over?

After all you readily concede that SATAN was IN Peter. What makes you think if that SIN transpired IN Peter that it WASN'T only SATAN???

???

 

[1whirlwind]

Sorry 1w. Neither of us will be making Satan responsible. It ain't gonna happen.



Uh, no, the devil does what the devil does. IF you want to be the one taking his thoughts as YOURS and being responsible for THE DEVIL, good luck with that.

What makes you so sure that it is NOT the devil ALONE in THE PERSON who commits that dire sin that you seek so adamantly to (TORTURE/SEPARATE/ANNIHILATE) you or your fellow man over?

After all you readily concede that SATAN was IN Peter. What makes you think if that SIN transpired IN Peter that it WASN'T only SATAN???

???

I don't at all concede that Satan was in Peter. Peter failed on his own. Your concept is truly puzzling to me. If I'm understanding you correctly...you believe that the sins we commit are simply Satan in each of us doing the sinning. We stand by and allow it?

Also, where you write..."that you seek so adamantly to (TORTURE/SEPARATE/ANNIHILATE) you or your fellow man over?" Come on now Squint, am I doing that? Our Father tells us that there is ONE SIN that we (not Satan) will not be forgiven for. He doesn't want anyone to be tortured, separated or annihilated and that is why He warns us. Do we hear and see what He tells us?

 

[squint]

I don't at all concede that Satan was in Peter. Peter failed on his own.

But you just finished saying to me in one of your prior posts that you DID NOT THINK PETER WAS SATAN.

Soooo, which way is it 'really' in YOUR MIND?

The fact that other 'entities' were IN mankind is a very well publicised FACT of the Bible. Why is it that you cannot discern ONE PARTY from the OTHER?

Your concept is truly puzzling to me.

The obvious problem here MIGHT be that POWER?

If I'm understanding you correctly...you believe that the sins we commit are simply Satan in each of us doing the sinning. We stand by and allow it?

I certainly don't see A FREE PASS from the thoughts of SIN entering our MINDS...do you?

I certainly don't see A FREE PASS from the entrance of SATAN into the hearts of where the WORD is sown...do you?

The fact of these matters ARE that Paul had EVIL PRESENT with him 'when' he desired to 'do good.' I don't see that 'power' being 'exempt' from working against us continually. Why would you or I as Gods children expect EVIL to change it's stripes? Evil does what evil does. Whether in THOUGHT or IN MIND it's still just as much the sin and just as much the EVIL. Your 'responsibility' is NOT going to 'eradicate' that presence IN YOU any more than it did IN PAUL.

Why is it so HARD for you to divide yourself from that working, or even more, to DIVIDE your fellow man from that working???? Ask yourself that question.

I will guarantee that the INSTANT you take this measure INTO yourself you will TASTE EVIL in your own mind. What happens from there is GODS CHOICE of whom to raise 'in your lump.' You'll either be RAISED in the TRUTH of that fact and LIVE WITH IT, or you will continue to be IT'S PAWN, by denying YOU have that presence and continuing to BLAME AND ACCUSE AND CONDEMN your fellow man BY THAT SAME POWER.

Also, where you write..."that you seek so adamantly to (TORTURE/SEPARATE/ANNIHILATE) you or your fellow man over?" Come on now Squint, am I doing that?

ABSOLUTELY that presentation is coming from YOUR MIND and your FINGERS. The source of which I know...as NOT being YOU. Sorry to inform that power, and HAPPY to inform the 'child of God.'

You are saying as GODS CHILD that 'YOUR OWN FATHER' for that supposedly UNFORGIVABLE SIN, can burn you alive forever....

Do you really think your own FATHER is that CRUEL? Isn't it MORE LIKELY that the EVIL PRESENT with you is prompting that FEAR and VAUNTING it upon OTHER PEOPLE?

Are you not the servant of PURE FEAR when you promote such things?

Perfect LOVE casts OUT fear.

Our Father tells us that there is ONE SIN that we (not Satan) will not be forgiven for. He doesn't want anyone to be tortured, separated or annihilated and that is why He warns us. Do we hear and see what He tells us?

No, your presentation is that YOUR FATHER will burn you alive forever at HIS WHIM. EVERY SIN is connected DIRECTLY TO SATAN in 1 John 3:8. Read it...there is no DISCONNECTING SATAN FROM SIN....

I know who you are listening to. It ain't GOD. You will watch DAY AND NIGHT to keep yourself from being BURNED ALIVE FOREVER...and rightfully so... That FEAR INSTINCT will RULE your mind. It is the power of SELF PRESERVATION. The FEAR to 'save yer own hide.' A servant of FEAR is NOT the servant of God.

I do fear the Lord GREATLY because of what I carry in my flesh/mind and I also know that God deals with that 'power' DIFFERENTLY than he deals with me as a son. HE is Great Enough to USE that power to chastise, discipline and form me IN LOVE and to OVERCOME that 'power' in me IN LOVE.

Do you see? Or will FEAR rule over you?

enjoy!

squint

 

[1whirlwind]

Sorry 1w. Neither of us will be making Satan responsible. It ain't gonna happen.



Uh, no, the devil does what the devil does. IF you want to be the one taking his thoughts as YOURS and being responsible for THE DEVIL, good luck with that.



What makes you so sure that it is NOT the devil ALONE in THE PERSON who commits that dire sin that you seek so adamantly to (TORTURE/SEPARATE/ANNIHILATE) you or your fellow man over?

After all you readily concede that SATAN was IN Peter. What makes you think if that SIN transpired IN Peter that it WASN'T only SATAN???

???

But you just finished saying to me in one of your prior posts that you DID NOT THINK PETER WAS SATAN.

Soooo, which way is it 'really' in YOUR MIND?

Exactly. Peter was not Satan. Satan was not Peter or in Peter. Peter is Peter and Peter must take responsibility for Peter's sins. If Peter repents then Peter is forgiven. It is you placing Satan in this scenario.

The fact that other 'entities' were IN mankind is a very well publicised FACT of the Bible. Why is it that you cannot discern ONE PARTY from the OTHER?

Evil spirits/demons, etc. do enter some. NOT ALL. Because someone sins doesn't mean a devil in them did it. We do what we do. I can discern that when I sinned I CHOSE to sin....not some entity in me. It was ME.

The obvious problem here MIGHT be that POWER?

And...what does that mean?

I certainly don't see A FREE PASS from the thoughts of SIN entering our MINDS...do you?

I certainly don't see A FREE PASS from the entrance of SATAN into the hearts of where the WORD is sown...do you?

The fact of these matters ARE that Paul had EVIL PRESENT with him 'when' he desired to 'do good.' I don't see that 'power' being 'exempt' from working against us continually. Why would you or I as Gods children expect EVIL to change it's stripes? Evil does what evil does. Whether in THOUGHT or IN MIND it's still just as much the sin and just as much the EVIL. Your 'responsibility' is NOT going to 'eradicate' that presence IN YOU any more than it did IN PAUL.

Why do you think I expect evil to change? I expect us to change...as did Paul.

Why is it so HARD for you to divide yourself from that working, or even more, to DIVIDE your fellow man from that working???? Ask yourself that question.

From what working? That a sin nature is in humans? Of course it is there...but it is NOT the devil in us. It is our sin not his. We need to own what we do before we understand it is wrong and repent. To blame it on the devil is escapism.

I will guarantee that the INSTANT you take this measure INTO yourself you will TASTE EVIL in your own mind. What happens from there is GODS CHOICE of whom to raise 'in your lump.' You'll either be RAISED in the TRUTH of that fact and LIVE WITH IT, or you will continue to be IT'S PAWN, by denying YOU have that presence and continuing to BLAME AND ACCUSE AND CONDEMN your fellow man BY THAT SAME POWER.

Squint. Where have you read blame and condemnation of anyone? It is as if we are writing about two different subjects here. I will again say...there is ONE UNFORGIVEABLE SIN that only the elect can commit and only in the end of days. You may think that is the devil but IT IS NOT.

ABSOLUTELY that presentation is coming from YOUR MIND and your FINGERS. The source of which I know...as NOT being YOU. Sorry to inform that power, and HAPPY to inform the 'child of God.'

You are saying as GODS CHILD that 'YOUR OWN FATHER' for that supposedly UNFORGIVABLE SIN, can burn you alive forever....

What part of what is written in the Bible are you not understanding? I didn't write those passages...He did.

Do you really think your own FATHER is that CRUEL? Isn't it MORE LIKELY that the EVIL PRESENT with you is prompting that FEAR and VAUNTING it upon OTHER PEOPLE?

Are you not the servant of PURE FEAR when you promote such things?

Perfect LOVE casts OUT fear.

Again...please read His Words. He tells us not to commit that sin. I am not fearlful because I understand what it is.

No, your presentation is that YOUR FATHER will burn you alive forever at HIS WHIM. EVERY SIN is connected DIRECTLY TO SATAN in 1 John 3:8. Read it...there is no DISCONNECTING SATAN FROM SIN....

I know who you are listening to. It ain't GOD. You will watch DAY AND NIGHT to keep yourself from being BURNED ALIVE FOREVER...and rightfully so... That FEAR INSTINCT will RULE your mind. It is the power of SELF PRESERVATION. The FEAR to 'save yer own hide.' A servant of FEAR is NOT the servant of God.

I do fear the Lord GREATLY because of what I carry in my flesh/mind and I also know that God deals with that 'power' DIFFERENTLY than he deals with me as a son. HE is Great Enough to USE that power to chastise, discipline and form me IN LOVE and to OVERCOME that 'power' in me IN LOVE.

Do you see? Or will FEAR rule over you?

enjoy!

squint

Sorry Squint....this whole line of reasoning is just off kilter to me. You accuse without knowing.

 

[squint]

Exactly. Peter was not Satan. Satan was not Peter or in Peter. Peter is Peter and Peter must take responsibility for Peter's sins. If Peter repents then Peter is forgiven. It is you placing Satan in this scenario.

Oh really?

Jesus called PETER SATAN right to his face. So, what are we to make of THAT? Was PETER then SATAN?

You either are going to make PETER SATAN in this matter or you are going to make SATAN satan in this matter. It can't be played BOTH WAYS.

Matthew 16:23
But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.


Mark 8:33
But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.

So, you have so far and again said that Peter was NOT Satan, but that SATAN was not 'in' Peter.

That's called ON THE FENCE....

Evil spirits/demons, etc. do enter some. NOT ALL.

Please humor me with the simple math here.

IF all have sin (they do) and if all have sinned (they do) and if those who commit sin are OF THE DEVIL ....(they are)

The DEVIL is and remains connected to EVERY SIN.

IF you see any kind of logical reasonable way around these facts, please advise. I haven't found any way to avoid the conclusions here.

Because someone sins doesn't mean a devil in them did it.

As stated prior, I have not been able to successfully extract the DEVIL from the SIN equations.

We do what we do. I can discern that when I sinned I CHOSE to sin....not some entity in me. It was ME.

So says who? You? What makes me think you are not deceived in not bringing the OTHER PARTY to the table in these matters?

1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning.

IF you find a way to DISCONNECT the DEVIL in that equation, by all means let me know. As stated, I haven't found any way to logically DO THAT.

Why do you think I expect evil to change? I expect us to change...as did Paul.

The point remains that the EVIL PRESENT with Paul did not evaporate, disappear or change. EVIL present remained WITH Paul no matter 'what' happened to Paul.

From what working? That a sin nature is in humans? Of course it is there...but it is NOT the devil in us. It is our sin not his. We need to own what we do before we understand it is wrong and repent. To blame it on the devil is escapism.

A. Sin cannot be logically disconnected from the DEVIL
B. The sin that transpires IN our minds and bodies IS OURS as it is IN US that it transpires. That still doesn't eradicate point A
C. Evil present remains with us at all times and is NOT changed one single WHIT by 'your' responsibility, whether active or passive EVIL. We have no way of 'measuring' INTERNAL ACTIONS OF EVIL in the MIND.

Squint. Where have you read blame and condemnation of anyone?

Read your own words. You openly promote that for that PARTICULAR SIN that your FATHER is going to burn you alive forever (or insert your favorite form of FEAR.) That is from YOUR MOUTH...your BRAIN. I'm just observing what YOU are saying and YOU ARE SAYING that you or 'other people' CAN AND/OR WILL be eternally condemned by that UNforgivable sin.

It is as if we are writing about two different subjects here. I will again say...there is ONE UNFORGIVEABLE SIN that only the elect can commit and only in the end of days. You may think that is the devil but IT IS NOT.

Well, you just got done spinning the story BOTH WAYS again. On one hand you say 'but I'm not condemning anyone' and in the very next statement you go on to present THE CONDEMNATION.

What part of what is written in the Bible are you not understanding? I didn't write those passages...He did.

But that is what EVERYONE claims. NOT me but GOD.

I say it is merely YOUR subjective reflections that are very very void of the FACTS OF THE DEVILS involvment in SIN.

You are led to see only the ELECT in these equations when in fact the ELECT do have EVIL PRESENT with them, that being of the DEVIL.

I know these facts do throw a wrench in the brain but they are the FACTS.

Sorry Squint....this whole line of reasoning is just off kilter to me. You accuse without knowing.

It will very much seem off kilter because DEALING with the FACTS will require you to MOVE your brain into TRUTH rather than that bizarre fantasy that God, your FATHER is going to burn you alive forever. You are in fact TRAPPED in that darkness. You may well NOT get out while in this present life. Even me sharing this with you WILL CAUSE EVIL PRESENT to tighten it's hold like the SNAKE that it is.

enjoy yer wrestling match...he is a worthy adversary!

squint

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

*snip*
...........Do you see? Or will FEAR rule over you?

enjoy!

squint

God forbid!!

Reve 2:10 No yet thou be fearing! which-things thou are being about to be suffering/emotioning. Behold! Is being about to be casting the Devil out ye into a prison, that ye may be being tried.

Any thoughts on how this one commentator I brought up earlier viewed this topic?

http://www.christianforums.com/t7405610-2/#post53064145