The unfathomable abuse/affection paradox

[ValleyGal]

I'm not so sure it's an excuse. What happens with many who are abused as children, they live in a heightened state: fight, flight, freeze, flock, or (there is a new one, but can't recall what it is). They grew up in this heightened state, and it becomes their baseline. Then when they get into adult relationships, it does not take much to trigger them, and they can very easily lose their temper, and their go-to is "fight." For many, they do feel guilty, but the heightened arousal state trumps conscience. That is why they will apologize profusely after... they often really do feel guilty and are deeply sorry, but their biology got the best of them.

I am not saying this as an excuse. I'm saying that it is more biological than anything else, and knowing this, the abuser should (in good conscience) seek healing for their own victimization, if they were indeed victimized.

For some, it is a matter of power, but for the most part, I believe that most abusers have been abused, and that is a product of environment - it shapes biology. They need help and healing... and this is coming from the fingertips of one who has been abused as well...

 

[kmrichard7]

If you find yourself abusing someone and you do not seek help, you have to take personal responsibility. If you seek help you will find it, if you do not it is your choice to carry on the behavior.

For some reason I get so frustrated with people these days. I feel like an old person talking about the "younger generation" and I'm not even 30 yet but it seems like no one wants to take responsibility for their actions and want to place the blame on anyone and everyone they can!

Just yesterday it was in the news that a teen got hit by a car while playing pokemon go because she crossed a highway. Even her parents blamed the app on her getting hit and the police issues a strong warning against the dangers of this game. Really? Since when did we expect phone apps to look both ways for us?

At some point we have to admit we make our own decisions in life and we have to learn to live with the consequences

 

[ValleyGal]

I agree... those who are abusive are responsible to seek help and healing for their issues. But knowing how the whole thing works for them, somehow I am able to dig deep and find some compassion for them, even having been a "victim" myself...but this is all part of me reclaiming my own power over the one who beat me. I am no longer a victim; I am able to understand and know that I am no better than my abuser and we are all in need of the same Savior.

 

[kmrichard7]

That is true and I was actually able to forgive my own father and apologize to him for believing somehow my sins were less than his, that somehow he was less forgivable than I was and that was a HUGE step in me overcoming my past.

Understanding how it can start is important when working through the issues, but when you live abusive and you do not seek the help, I just can't accept that you are not to blame. It's like blaming a drug dealer if I was an addict, a cop if I was breaking the law, a teacher if I got bad grades.

 

[98cwitr]

I HATE this excuse.
I have gone through so much abuse and was raised by addicts. I'm neither an abuser nor an addict. This is an excuse for people to continue their behavior and not have to take responsibility for their actions.

We are not products of our environment, We are products of our conscience. We may be more prone to certain behaviors but our environment does not determine out actions, our conscience does.

I don't think it's an excuse at all...simply a reason. What constructs a conscience aside from God's intervention? Is our conscience genetic? Are violent people genetically predisposed to violence? What would happen if a child, the day of their birth, born from violent parents was put into and raised in a loving, caring, and docile family environment?

 

[ImaginaryDay]

Are violent people genetically predisposed to violence?

Not everything can be seen through a lens of 'social construct'. That's a mistake that's being made in psychological literature right now, at the expense of genetic predispositions. As to your question - even though meant as rhetorical - research suggests that there may be some genetic markers present that would predispose some to intimate partner violence, even if "raised in a loving, caring, and docile family..."

 

[mkgal1]

Lundy Bancroft has written a lot about the abusive mindset. We can't wrap our minds around it, because their "default" and their motives are completely foreign to us. Here's part of a blog he wrote on the topic in the OP:

Verbal abuse is not sexy. Intimidation is not sexy. Public humiliation is not sexy. Ruining the day is not sexy. So why does he think that a short period of time – say a couple of hours -- after he’s been treating you terribly could somehow be a good time for sex? He really thinks that this is when you are going to be in the mood?

Not exactly. The problem, as is so often true with abusive men, is that he isn’t thinking about you at all; he’s thinking only about himself. He wants sex to reassure himself that he hasn’t driven you away, and that he still has access to your body. He thinks that if he can get you to have sex, that also means he has erased from history the destructive acts he did earlier. And he wants to have sex because in some twisted way his ugly behavior made him feel close, even though it had the opposite effect on you.

And because of the ways he’s been tearing you down, it gets hard for you to say no to sex that you don’t want; you can end up feeling like giving him what he wants is the only way to settle him down so that he doesn’t launch into more abuse, or even violence.

 

[WolfGate]

Lundy Bancroft has written a lot about the abusive mindset. We can't wrap our minds around it, because their "default" and their motives are completely foreign to us. Here's part of a blog he wrote on the topic in the OP:

Fascinating quote you posted. Exactly the kind of thing I'm trying to understand. I had not thought about it the way Lundy did.

 

[98cwitr]

Not everything can be seen through a lens of 'social construct'. That's a mistake that's being made in psychological literature right now, at the expense of genetic predispositions. As to your question - even though meant as rhetorical - research suggests that there may be some genetic markers present that would predispose some to intimate partner violence, even if "raised in a loving, caring, and docile family..."

Would love to see this research, please post the link(s) if you have it.

 

[Dave-W]

Are violent people genetically predisposed to violence?

I doubt if anyone will ever find a gene that predisposes one to violence. But not all of life is based on genetic make up.

What would happen if a child, the day of their birth, born from violent parents was put into and raised in a loving, caring, and docile family environment?

Could go either way.

There is a spiritual heritage that also affects us. Just as John the Immerser was baptized in the Holy Spirit in utero, some people can become demonized in utero. That can have a HUGE effect on how one views and reacts to the stresses of life.

 

[Farine]

Fascinating quote you posted. Exactly the kind of thing I'm trying to understand. I had not thought about it the way Lundy did.

A bigger matter at hand is how to respond to your friend who is filing for divorce. There are emotional, trust, mental and financial wounds involved in any divorce. A divorce arising from abuse has even more wounds. This is a marathon not a sprint. Yes, there are grief issues that very likely your friend will need therapeutic help to stay functional. Yes, this whole thing is very likely to cause a faith crisis. That's hard to be around. Someone asking outloud "Where is God? Why did He allow this to happen?.. etc."

Like a lot of complex problems with many moving parts, it helps to take things into smaller parts. One thing that I would urge you to do is to research and re-visit your boundaries. She admits she's in an abusive relationship--she's saying she's co-dependent. The abuse and/or her family of origin made sure she doesn't know where her identity starts or stops. Just leaving the abuser doesn't give her a clue who she is. She can heal. She can have an extraordinary life. After all, it's not where you start that matters.. it's where you finish. And Jesus had a lot of things to say that will really help her. Before that, you and whoever is going to be actively near her, needs to establish what is 'ok' and when and how much help will be extended. She's so drained, she could absorb every ounce of emotional energy you have and not look any better in the short term.

As this friendship is needed for the long term, I'm hoping to preserve your relationship with her for the long term....

 

[mkgal1]

Fascinating quote you posted. Exactly the kind of thing I'm trying to understand. I had not thought about it the way Lundy did.

Is this friend of yours someone from your church? I know you'd mentioned you had a previous pastor that was abusing his wife.....is your new pastor intent on not allowing the church to be a sanctuary for abusers? This is a good article (and great page) for leaders in the church (and your friend would probably experience healing from reading the articles there):

When I was in seminary “church growth” was the craze. Pastors were supposed to “cast a vision” and “grow their church.” The thing was all bogus of course. It is Christ who grows His church. We plant. Another waters. But God gives the increase. Man can definitely implement his own gimmicks to get bodies in the pews, but no human can effect genuine conversion. What was never said in seminary was that “some of you are not going to see numerical growth in your churches. Some of you are going to be run out of town, falsely accused, hated and berated by Pharisees and wolves in wool. In fact, if you are a true shepherd of Christ, these things WILL happen to you.” Nope, no mention of that. None. Yet the Bible has much to say about such experiences. Christ says that these things are the NORM for those who follow Him.

And if you become wise about evil, if a pastor and His flock “get it” and teach about how wickedness hides in the church, church “growth” will be evidenced by the wicked leaving! No domestic abuser who has been hiding and disguised as a fine Christian church member should EVER be able to continue that facade comfortably. As the truth about evil, as the mentality and tactics of abuse are brought to light and exposed by the Word of God, suddenly the flatterer ceases his praise. He goes silent or he begins to criticize and accuse. What is really going on? He does not want his victim to hear these things. He is squirming. And eventually he leaves, claiming some injustice done to him or other such excuse.~
https://cryingoutforjustice.com/2016/07/17/true-church-growth-often-means-getting-smaller/

...the author of that article has a few great books on the topic as well:

https://cryingoutforjustice.com/resources/articlesbookletsflyers-understand-domestic-abuse/

 

[98cwitr]

I doubt if anyone will ever find a gene that predisposes one to violence. But not all of life is based on genetic make up.

Could go either way.

There is a spiritual heritage that also affects us. Just as John the Immerser was baptized in the Holy Spirit in utero, some people can become demonized in utero. That can have a HUGE effect on how one views and reacts to the stresses of life.

Well...demonization in utero would most certainly qualify as an "environmental" influence IMO!

 

[WolfGate]

Is this friend of yours someone from your church? I know you'd mentioned you had a previous pastor that was abusing his wife.....is your new pastor intent on not allowing the church to be a sanctuary for abusers? This is a good article (and great page) for leaders in the church (and your friend would probably experience healing from reading the articles there):



...the author of that article has a few great books on the topic as well:

https://cryingoutforjustice.com/resources/articlesbookletsflyers-understand-domestic-abuse/

Thanks for asking and thinking about that. No, this friend lives several states away and is not at all been a part of our church. In reality they are not someone I am particularly close to, but the history you mentioned with our pastor has made me more sensitive and aware when I hear of anyone I know who was also abused. (Because, as I've said, I just don't get it).

More importantly, our elder board is intent on not letting the church be a sanctuary for abusers. We've worked to put systems and people in place to give anyone abused a variety of safe ways to communicate and ask for help. Our entire congregation now sadly understands that sin, particularly abuse but other kinds as well, can be hidden and tearing apart even those people you think would be immune. As our church is elder led, with the history we've been through, the new pastor will be supportive of how we now approach this issue.

P.S. - Our new pastor will be starting next month. It has taken over 2 years. We did have a great interim pastor to help us through this process. It took over a year to look deeply inward and figure out if we really were who we thought we were and then how to change to be the church we believed God was showing us we needed to be through this tragedy. Then, it took a year to find a new Pastor. But he is coming into a strong, unified congregation that is the same in most way, but much more aware and focused and compassionate in others.

 

[Observer]

It is possible for abusers to use it as a form of control and the sex is not about love, but power.

But for me personally, my abuser still wanted sex and affection on occasion and it wasn't really part of abuse or control. He viewed himself as the victim in all domestic violence situations. He felt I caused it, that I pushed him to do it, or even that it was self defence even if I'd done nothing to him. So he did not view his abuse as some horrible thing on his part, he viewed himself as though he was a poor child who was hurt by me and he reacted. It was a warped point of view but it's common. So he did not hate me, so he still wanted intimacy now and then. He abused me because he felt so sorry for himself and like a wronged victim, so naturally you'd still want intimacy with someone if you just view yourself as a poor unfortunate soul.
A lot of abusers do not acknowledge what they do and view it from a deluded perspective. So a man in his right mind can't understand wanting intimacy with someone you abuse. Because normal men don't abuse people they care about because they're not self absorbed and don't enter into relationships for twisted self fulfilling purposes like to be dependent on someone or control them. Normal men just want a peaceful relationship with positive interactions. Abusive men have mental illness and/or deep ingrained personality disorders that drive their bizarre interactions.
Then there is the common break up/make up/break up/make up cycle of abuse which can make both partners want affection/sex as they have gone through trauma and then seek comfort.
But ultimately the abused partner will lose overall attraction and desire for the abuser for obvious reasons. Also the abuser can lose interest if he feels so hurt and hard done by, by his partner's reaction to long term abuse (they always blame the victim fir how they feel).
I waited 7 years and am now separated and waiting until I can apply for divorce, and I'm in another relationship. So now I'm an adulterer and severe sinner.. but I'd rather not exist than be with my husband, so people can say what they will and apply the Christian guilt (which Christian abusers in marriages are so good at) but I'm at the point where I cannot let people tell me to be miserable anymore, and if that means I'm too much of a sinner to be Christian then so be it. If my husband can be forgiven for not working for years, verbal abuse, violence.. even though he never stopped until I kicked him out, church still sympathises with him. But they won't sympathise with me for leaving him and finding a more solid relationship with another man who I've known for years. It's like that's just unforgivable but everything else is. People say I'd better just separate from my husband, but not divorce him, and remain single for the rest of my life. My husband would not allow me to have kids and I'm 30 and need to get a move on if that was ever to happen. I refuse to let him control my life anymore and being separated yet married and unable to have a good relationship with someone else and have kids, would be him still controlling my life forever. People just don't get what it's like.

 

[Farine]

I do. I understand. Congratulations on the new relationship!