The unfathomable abuse/affection paradox

[WolfGate]

Just found out a friend left her husband and is filing for divorce. Says he abused her for years but now he started abusing the kids and that was too much. A few of you may recall a while back we had a pastor who it turned out had been abusive (and very good at hiding it). He was also unhappy that his wife stopped being affectionate after the abuse started, so he went out and had an affair.

I started thinking about my own wife and really tried to think about what it must be like to be in an abusive marriage. Forget for a second that I cannot fathom abusing her, I find it even more impossible to think that if I did abuse her, I would think she would still want to make love with me. But it seems abusers often feel that way, and perhaps the abused. Maybe I'm confusing making love with raw sex, but is it really possible to abuse someone and still want to make love to them? Is having sex in that case just part of the whole power dynamic of abuse and trying to earn back love by the abused?

Seriously, while this is hard to understand intellectually, it is even harder to grasp when I try to put myself emotionally in the situation. Can anyone shed any light on why abusers would feel they should still be loved - physically, affectionately and emotionally?

 

[johndoo]

I assume the abuser still feels it is deserved. Gets back to the power issue.
There are cases of abuse that have to do with substance abuse, so not all cases are the same.

 

[WolfGate]

I assume the abuser still feels it is deserved. Gets back to the power issue.
There are cases of abuse that have to do with substance abuse, so not all cases are the same.

Yeah, I get that. That is an intellectual reason why it happens. I realize it's a bit difficult, but I'm trying to grasp the emotional factors behind that. What could an abuser possibly be feeling after abusing their spouse that would make them think the abused should want to still make love to them or be affectionate with them?

 

[DZoolander]

I have a hard time grasping that as well. I guess it's too ingrained into me that "actions have related consequences". So, if I do something douchey, I expect that I will be treated as if I just did something douchey. Yin and yang. It's hard for me to grasp the idea that "I will do something callous and hurtful to you, and expect affection in return."

 

[ImaginaryDay]

I would fathom a guess that it is part of the power dynamic. At any stage of the abuse (and I've lived it in a past relationship), sex is a manipulative tool, whether forced or withheld, on the part of the abuser. At that stage, what may look like trying to earn back love is only another desperate attempt at control, and fearing the loss of it.

 

[LinkH]

Wolfgate, rape is abusive, and rapists want to have sex with their victims. I don't know why abusers wouldn't want to have sex. I'd imagine abusees could feel more conflicted about it.

 

[ImaginaryDay]

I'm not sure that rape is only about wanting to have sex. The act is certainly part of it, but the power dynamic would be the bigger issue, imo. Abuse carries much the same dynamic - maintaining power and control through the act, even if there might be perceived consent from the other party.

 

[ValleyGal]

Wolfgate, rape is abusive, and rapists want to have sex with their victims. I don't know why abusers wouldn't want to have sex. I'd imagine abusees could feel more conflicted about it.

Rapists do not want sex with their victims. They want power over their victims and think the way to do that is through a specific type of assault over a different type of assault. Rape has nothing to do with sex aside from the fact that sex is the most intimate act a couple can do; therefore, rape is an assault against women's intimacies... it is perceived power over her future ability to be intimate with another. Rapists get off not on being sexual with a victim; they get off by having power over another person.

Rape excluded, of course abusive men want sex. Sex drive is normal, whether the person is abusive or not. But when an abusive person abuses their partner sexually, it is no longer about sex; it is about his power over her - a matter of control that comes along with a threat that if a victim does not submit, she will be further victimized (as though sexual abuse is not victimization).

A woman who is abused over time often learns to fear or avoid sex because it is further evidence that she is powerless. Women in this situation will often detach from the act so it is nothing more than being a receptacle for his whims rather than the bonding gift God intended it to be.

 

[Dave-W]

A woman who is abused over time often learns to fear or avoid sex because it is further evidence that she is powerless.

And if she is a young (grade school) girl? She will grow to hate sex, hate her own desires, and to see the male body parts as instruments of torture.

That can and will last a lifetime.

 

[Job8]

Can anyone shed any light on why abusers would feel they should still be loved - physically, affectionately and emotionally?

The first thing to do in this discussion is clearly define *abuse*. This word is being thrown around quite a bit.

 

[WolfGate]

The first thing to do in this discussion is clearly define *abuse*. This word is being thrown around quite a bit.

Yelling, berating, demeaning, name calling, progressing to striking. Not really needed in the context of the thread, but if that helps you participate, let's go with that.

 

[98cwitr]

Abuse is a learned trait. Abusers are usually a result of abuse. This dominance and control signifies love within the relationship. When they lose control, they lose the feeling of love, and that's when adultery takes place. I hate to put it so simply, but in the end we are simply products of our environment. This is where rebirth in Spirit comes into play....

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The first thing to do in this discussion is clearly define *abuse*. This word is being thrown around quite a bit.

It is vague and inaccurate often, on purpose, and especially for ungodly legal and social purposes.(for many decades now)

 

[Dave-W]

and especially for ungodly legal and social purposes.

Why do you consider legal purposes to be "ungodly?"

 

[Job8]

It is vague and inaccurate often, on purpose, and especially for ungodly legal and social purposes.(for many decades now)

Thanks. That was my impression also.

 

[Job8]

Why do you consider legal purposes to be "ungodly?"

Because the legal system has been corrupted. The criminals are coddled while the victims get nothing but grief.

 

[Dave-W]

Because the legal system has been corrupted.

And Nero's legal system was the picture of perfect jurisprudence? He was emperor when both these passages were written:

Romans 13:1 Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God.
2 Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves.

1 Peter 2:13 Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every human institution, whether to a king as the one in authority, 14 or to governors as sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and the praise of those who do right.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Because the legal system has been corrupted. The criminals are coddled while the victims get nothing but grief.

Yes. And those using it also for greed and other unrighteous purposes greatly outnumber , as usual, any honest pursuits.

 

[kmrichard7]

I was in an abusive marriage for quite some time and basically the way it was with him...
He did no wrong. So what if he hit me? I shouldn't have forgotten his ketchup at the fast food restaurant that night. So what if he choked me? I shouldn't have undercooked the pasta.
So if I didn't want to have sex with him, well that's my fault too. Not his. He did nothing wrong. He was always innocent. He still maintains his innocence and actually my daughter from that marriage just told me the other day that he told her we had problems because I was lazy and never cooked and cleaned. I always cleaned, just never good enough for his standards. Eventually I stopped cooking because it wasn't good enough for his standards and that meant I had pain and financial issues and emotional abuse when I did anything not perfect.

The thing about abusers is even if they apologize, they still feel like their actions were justified. They don't want to hit you, you just drive them that far and if you could just stop screwing up, they could be their gentle lovable selves. Gag.

 

[kmrichard7]

Abuse is a learned trait. Abusers are usually a result of abuse. This dominance and control signifies love within the relationship. When they lose control, they lose the feeling of love, and that's when adultery takes place. I hate to put it so simply, but in the end we are simply products of our environment. This is where rebirth in Spirit comes into play....

I HATE this excuse.
I have gone through so much abuse and was raised by addicts. I'm neither an abuser nor an addict. This is an excuse for people to continue their behavior and not have to take responsibility for their actions.

We are not products of our environment, We are products of our conscience. We may be more prone to certain behaviors but our environment does not determine out actions, our conscience does.