The Tree of Life.

pescador

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I'll leave it at this brother.

Jesus said, "If those who lead you say to you, 'See, the kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty." - The Gospel of Thomas

But of course, lets disregard this Gospel. Although it is known to be writen at the time if not earlier than the canonical Gospels. :) Let the Holy Spirit do understanding brother, not our wordly concepts.
"Who ever has ears to listen let them hear."

This is a prime example of why the Gospel of Thomas is not included in the canon of scripture.

When Paul wrote to Timothy he said "Every scripture is inspired by God and useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the person dedicated to God may be capable and equipped for every good work." Of course this means that writings that are not scripture are not inspired by God and therefore don't contain the his truth.
 
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Jeo7

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This is a prime example of why the Gospel of Thomas is not included in the canon of scripture.

When Paul wrote to Timothy he said "Every scripture is inspired by God and useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the person dedicated to God may be capable and equipped for every good work." Of course this means that writings that are not scripture are not inspired by God and therefore don't contain the his truth.

Brother, know our Christian history and get to know why these scriptures were eradicated from the rest of the Gospels. At one point, there was no such thing as ONE Christianity, they were many. Most followed the common teachings found in the scriptures we read today (which is why it is in the bible), and the more "advance" students (disciples) read the other gospels which were known to contain a better insight of the spiritual teachings of Christ. The crazy thing is that at ONE POINT, all Christians accepted these gospels as Truth. But the early church leaders made it a HERASY to be in possession of these gospels. Ask yourself why did POWERFUL MEN, wanted these POWERFUL teachings out of the common people????
 
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pescador

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Brother, know our Christian history and get to know why these scriptures were eradicated from the rest of the Gospels. At one point, there was no such thing as ONE Christianity, they were many. Most followed the common teachings found in the scriptures we read today (which is why it is in the bible), and the more "advance" students (disciples) read the other gospels which were known to contain a better insight of the spiritual teachings of Christ. The crazy thing is that at ONE POINT, all Christians accepted these gospels as Truth. But the early church leaders made it a HERASY to be in possession of these gospels. Ask yourself why did POWERFUL MEN, wanted these POWERFUL teachings out of the common people????

This is total and utter nonsense!! Somebody had to decide what is scripture and what isn't, otherwise anything could be included, including such BS as the Gospel of Thomas and the other non-canonical "gospels". Now I understand where you're coming from...

There are secrets that are revealed only to a chosen few while the rest of us live in ignorance and spiritual darkness. You, on the other hand, are one of the chosen few to whom God has revealed certain hidden truths, meant only for the advanced. That makes you special in the eyes of God, much more so than the rest of us. While we poor souls have only the canon of scripture, otherwise known as "the Word of God", you have the more advanced stuff that allows you to reveal certain "facts" to the rest of us.

Paul wrote this to Timothy: "You will be doing your duty as Christ’s minister if you remind your church members of these [false teachings], and you will show yourself as one who owes his strength to the truth of the faith he has absorbed and the sound teaching he has followed. But steer clear of all these stupid Godless fictions."
 
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Knockout

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I think you mean heresy, not herasy?

Powerful people kept the bible itself away from the common people for a thousand years (the dark ages). The book of Enoch and Jasher contain truth. But when you tamper with the integrity of the 66 books of the bible you are tampering with Jesus himself who is the book, and is truth and life. We have proven using hermeneutics that these 66 books are the correct ones, nothing added nothing removed. As a Jew I hope you would be aware of the extensive mathematical research done to prove this.

Paul quoted the book of Enoch and the other books bear similarities to the bible but they are not the book by which we will be judged, they are historical records. They contain no secrets that we should be overly concerned with as you have become.
 
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Jeo7

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I think you mean heresy, not herasy?

Powerful people kept the bible itself away from the common people for a thousand years (the dark ages). The book of Enoch and Jasher contain truth. But when you tamper with the integrity of the 66 books of the bible you are tampering with Jesus himself who is the book, and is truth and life. We have proven using hermeneutics that these 66 books are the correct ones, nothing added nothing removed. As a Jew I hope you would be aware of the extensive mathematical research done to prove this.

Paul quoted the book of Enoch and the other books bear similarities to the bible but they are not the book by which we will be judged, they are historical records. They contain no secrets that we should be overly concerned with as you have become.

Yes, because every teaching that's on the other gospels are in the Bible. The Bible is complete. All of its mysteries and spiritual teachings are there. There's nothing secret, but we have to have the ears to understand and the eyes to perceive.
 
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FanthatSpark

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HHmmm stumbling blocks,

For me, being of flesh , taught by flesh , do as flesh does . "I" am not of the Spirit/ multi dimensional/time traveler or Omni-anything as God is. Thus, Spiritual concepts can only be shown at Gods behest correct? Terms and concepts in Spirit are mans "attempts" to bridge flesh and Spirit in His Will right? Me as an individual see's both concepts of pescador and jeo from the outside looking in. I see neo's concept too along with my own question of Kingdom and Spirit being of/in same meaning.

This is a beautiful thread brothers !! I see true fellowship here-in with a mystery of Spirit -vs- terminology of man and stumbling blocks (my own included brothers) in Spiritual Mysteries. Jeo and Neo seem to grasp a mystery where terminology can be thrown to the wayside of God given Spiritual Concept. Me and Pescador are stuck in terminology of flesh correct? Kingdom is kingdom and Spirit is Spirit and comprehend as two separate entities for me in mans terminology because that was/is the way I was taught to comprehend; in flesh. Thus, a stumbling block in what I read in the bible ...Is as written, with no latitude for Gods understanding/Wisdom/Spirit to show a Mystery that is good/righteous and pure of intent but is a different concept than what I just read in a verse or a word. So, I pray to be enlightened too in just a crumb of Gods wisdom in things of the Spirit. Sweeet thread brothers!! Looking forward to hearing more in fellowship!
 
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Jeo7

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This is total and utter nonsense!! Somebody had to decide what is scripture and what isn't, otherwise anything could be included, including such BS as the Gospel of Thomas and the other non-canonical "gospels". Now I understand where you're coming from...

There are secrets that are revealed only to a chosen few while the rest of us live in ignorance and spiritual darkness. You, on the other hand, are one of the chosen few to whom God has revealed certain hidden truths, meant only for the advanced. That makes you special in the eyes of God, much more so than the rest of us. While we poor souls have only the canon of scripture, otherwise known as "the Word of God", you have the more advanced stuff that allows you to reveal certain "facts" to the rest of us.

Paul wrote this to Timothy: "You will be doing your duty as Christ’s minister if you remind your church members of these [false teachings], and you will show yourself as one who owes his strength to the truth of the faith he has absorbed and the sound teaching he has followed. But steer clear of all these stupid Godless fictions."

Paul taught these Gospels to the MATURE brother. Remember to WHO he was bringing these teachings to, to the gentiles who knew nothing of this "Christ" and he had to be really CAREFUL how he taught the Message of Salvation.
 
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Knockout

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Yes, because every teaching that's on the other gospels are in the Bible. The Bible is complete. All of its mysteries and spiritual teachings are there. There's nothing secret, but we have to have the ears to understand and the eyes to perceive.

It isn't a matter of teachings, understandings or theology. Hermeneutics is the study of the mathematical structure of the bible.
 
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Jeo7

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It isn't a matter of teachings, understandings or theology. Hermeneutics is the study of the mathematical structure of the bible.

Brother its not about seeing scripture as a "math equation", but as a GUIDE of our moral, spiritual practice of our faith.
 
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BryanW92

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It isn't a matter of teachings, understandings or theology. Hermeneutics is the study of the mathematical structure of the bible.

Not really. It is a study of interpretation. It is the drawing out the full meaning of a text in word and context.
 
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FanthatSpark

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Maybe some people don't take it as seriously as I do, but when it comes to life and death and the book is supposed to have come from outside our time domain passed by a power that was capable of creating everything we see and imagine, if it doesn't obey the sound laws of math it is a heresy.

So math is law? No room for mysteries and or miracles in a spiritual / prophesy format ? To limit Gods preview to mere mathematics ? The miracle that was found in mathematics was only one and may or may not be related to heresy of what is good and pure in Gods Spirit. Mathematics puts limitations on Omni correct?
 
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Jeo7

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Not really. It is a study of interpretation. It is the drawing out the full meaning of a text in word and context.

Yessss !!!!! What you're saying is VERY profound. It's how the WORD became flesh. Jesus said, "You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me.."

The same way we must follow the example of Christ, because he is THE LIVING WORD IN THE FLESH.
"Anyone who eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him." - Jesus The Christ
 
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Knockout

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So math is law? No room for mysteries and or miracles in a spiritual / prophesy format ? To limit Gods preview to mere mathematics ? The miracle that was found in mathematics was only one and may or may not be related to heresy of what is good and pure in Gods Spirit. Mathematics puts limitations on Omni correct?

If you hope to convince the world that this book is from our creator, you will have to explain to scholars, scientists, atheists, agnostics, all of these being intelligent people, your proof that this book is not just an instructional book it is a code, a software program that contains the coding for the space/time we view as real.

Signs and wonders are really the last resort before judgement, although for those who believe they can also be an affirmation.

But in the context of this thread I am saying we know the 66 books are integrated and unchangeable thanks to the math, not because of (purely) theological reasoning. They are locked, from beginning to end, his words have never changed and never will.
 
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BryanW92

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Not really. It is a study of interpretation. It is the drawing out the full meaning of a text in word and context.

Yessss !!!!! What you're saying is VERY profound. It's how the WORD became flesh. Jesus said, "You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me.."

The same way we must follow the example of Christ, because he is THE LIVING WORD IN THE FLESH.
"Anyone who eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him." - Jesus The Christ

No. It's NOT profound. You can do hermeneutics on anything: the koran, the bhagavad gita, the bible, etc. The first lesson in learning hermeneutics is CONTEXT. Always context: author, audience, purpose, and then chapter, paragraph, sentence, and word. In order! Taking your study out of order creates false beliefs and false proofs.
 
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Jeo7

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No. It's NOT profound. You can do hermeneutics on anything: the koran, the bhagavad gita, the bible, etc. The first lesson in learning hermeneutics is CONTEXT. Always context: author, audience, purpose, and then chapter, paragraph, sentence, and word. In order! Taking your study out of order creates false beliefs and false proofs.


Im sorry bro, i understood you wrong. I thought you were saying that what truly matters is living the word, not simply "understanding" it as a "book", which i do agree with.
 
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FanthatSpark

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If you hope to convince the world that this book is from our creator, you will have to explain to scholars, scientists, atheists, agnostics, all of these being intelligent people, your proof that this book is not just an instructional book it is a code, a software program that contains the coding for the space/time we view as real.

Signs and wonders are really the last resort before judgement, although for those who believe they can also be an affirmation.

But in the context of this thread I am saying we know the 66 books are integrated and unchangeable thanks to the math, not because of (purely) theological reasoning. They are locked, from beginning to end, his words have never changed and never will.

Very interesting knock.
 
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BryanW92

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If you hope to convince the world that this book is from our creator, you will have to explain to scholars, scientists, atheists, agnostics, all of these being intelligent people, your proof that this book is not just an instructional book it is a code, a software program that contains the coding for the space/time we view as real.

Signs and wonders are really the last resort before judgement, although for those who believe they can also be an affirmation.

But in the context of this thread I am saying we know the 66 books are integrated and unchangeable thanks to the math, not because of theological reasoning. They are locked, from beginning to end, his words have never changed and never will.

There is nothing in the bible that will convince an atheist. There is no mathematical code that will make them see that 2 + 2 = God. There is a logic to it, but not code and the logic requires faith to understand. I was an atheist for 30 years and nothing in the Christian belief system affected my worldview, and it wasn't because my Christian friends didn't try. Faith comes from God. After that, the logical arguments make sense.

But, there is no Christianity without the resurrection and there is no way you can prove that it happened mathematically or logically. Until the resurrection, Jesus is just a prophet, and a dead one at that! Even his disciples thought that to be the case. The pilgrims on the road to Emmaus were dejected because it was over and they were defeated. The women at the tomb did not come to see the resurrected Christ. They came to anoint a corpse. But, after the resurrection, they (and we) understand and KNOW the nature of Jesus Christ.

If you want to convince scholars, etc, you have to convince them of that one fact. Everything else falls into place after you accept the resurrection. No math required. Without the knowledge of the resurrection, all your mathematical and logical arguments equal ZERO.
 
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