The ten commandments Old covenant, and the law "done away" and "abolished" as paul said

LoveofTruth

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Hello all, read this section and see what Paul says about the law written and engraved in stones, ( the ten commandments) and those who read the Old testament as well. I will let scripture speak for itself

"7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:13 And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart."2 Corinthians 3:7-14

even when reading Moses many are confused and blinded.


Notice the word end of the commandment, done away, abolished, a ministration of death and condemnation.

also we read about the law

"5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;' (1 Timothy 1:5-10)


and

"10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:" (Galatians 3:10-13)

The law is not of faith, consider this word.

and
no Jew or gentile has to keep the law either. As scripture says

"23 The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia.24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:" acts 15:23,24

and

"...but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing" (Acts 21:24,25)


"2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace." (Galatians 5:2-4)

and

"24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster." (Galatians 3:24,25)

and

"4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God...6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter."(Romans 7:4,6)

and

"20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;" Romans 3:20,21




A story of what is said

Think of group of young men walking along a road and they see a large glass house that says, with a big sign. "You young men do not throw stones at this house or you will go to jail", now the young men may not have been planning to go out and throw stones but the law stirred their evil nature and they may throw stones and brake the glass house or they may not for fear of going to jail, but really they want to throw the stones. But now the man who is a Christian, he can walk along and see such a glass house and never need a law to tell him, "don't break the glass house or you will go to jail". He will not need such a law because he loves his neighbour. He doesn't need a law to say DON'T DO THIS or THAT. He has the love of God that shows him and gives him the power to DO LOVE to his neighbour. The man who put that sign up for the young sinful men could take that sign down if they all became Christians. They do not need to even have such a sign, they are dead to that sign free from it not under it. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour against such there is no law.


Christians are not without law to God, we live in the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus, the law of Christ.
 
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ChristsSoldier115

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You follow the law as a Christian, but not in the way people believe.

Paul had a problem with the churches he planted, mostly among the jewish Christians. They thought the gentile had to be a jew, culturally, to be a Christian. Paul thought otherwise. Christians still have this problem today, they think you have to be like a westerner, to be a Christian.
 
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LoveofTruth

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You follow the law as a Christian, but not in the way people believe.

Paul had a problem with the churches he planted, mostly among the jewish Christians. They thought the gentile had to be a Jew, culturally, to be a Christian. Paul thought otherwise. Christians still have this problem today, they think you have to be like a westerner, to be a Christian.


The Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death
as Pul says in Romans 8

and yes the early church had problems with the understanding of the law and the coming out of the old into the new covenant fully. We see in Acts 15 some of the pharisees that believed said men must be circumcised and keep the law to be saved. This was wrong and we read in Acts 21 the Jewish believers went into the temple again and even offered sacrifice etc. This was also not needed and the Old was decaying and ready to vanish away, but it took many years. paul did have the majour revelation of the new convenant
 
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LoveofTruth

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You follow the law as a Christian, but not in the way people believe.

Paul had a problem with the churches he planted, mostly among the jewish Christians. They thought the gentile had to be a jew, culturally, to be a Christian. Paul thought otherwise. Christians still have this problem today, they think you have to be like a westerner, to be a Christian.


We still see similar problems today with some messianic groups. They error I believe in their understanding here as well. I talked to someone the other day who was "messianic" and they said that the gentiles also had to keep the law, and the four orders they gave to the Gentiles were only the first initiation for them, eventually they would have to keep the law as a Jew did. This is great confusion. All the above verses in my first post address this.

I run into similar issues of the law with Seven day Adventist (but not the Jew and gentile issue) who say men need to keep the sabbath and other things of the law. I read 2 Corinthians 3 to a woman who was a Seventh Day Adventist downtown last week and she was troubled by it and said she choose not to believe that. This was startling, when a truth is so clear is exposes the error, many simply ignore it and choose not to believe it and instead just stay with their group and all their friends and beliefs. But those who love the truth will come to the light and be free.

The truth will make you free.
 
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Sophrosyne

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I'm sure this will end up in the Sabbath and the Law subforum soon. There are those who want to put gentiles under the Law against what the Bible says ignoring the Old Testament which equates that Gentiles have to become Jews to partake of the Law and ignoring Paul and the council of Jerusalem in their writings and edicts which refutes the Law as binding on Christians.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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We still see similar problems today with some messianic groups. They error I believe in their understanding here as well. I talked to someone the other day who was "messianic" and they said that the gentiles also had to keep the law, and the four orders they gave to the Gentiles were only the first initiation for them, eventually they would have to keep the law as a Jew did. This is great confusion. All the above verses in my first post address this.

I run into similar issues of the law with Seven day Adventist (but not the Jew and gentile issue) who say men need to keep the sabbath and other things of the law. I read 2 Corinthians 3 to a woman who was a Seventh Day Adventist downtown last week and she was troubled by it and said she choose not to believe that. This was startling, when a truth is so clear is exposes the error, many simply ignore it and choose not to believe it and instead just stay with their group and all their friends and beliefs. But those who love the truth will come to the light and be free.

The truth will make you free.
That is a hot topic amongst the sabbatarian MJs and SDAs.

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/sabbath-for-jews-and-gentiles.7462687/

I believe both Jews and Gentiles need to observe the Sabbath because it was given at Creation to Adam and Eve. I've written a book called "Nehemiah the Sabbath Reformer" which has a deep spiritual lesson about how God's people need to reform the Sabbath.

God Bless

Marc Rasell
Response from a Jew:
Where does it say shabbas was given to Adam and Eve, and where does it say we are to observe it?



This says nothing about giving shabbas or commanding it's observance-
it says G-d abstained from His work and hallowed it, but it says nothing
about Adam and Eve (or anyone else for that matter) observing shabbas.
What does "He hallowed it" mean? For Himself, for mankind even though that is not what the text states?

Just curious about your interpretation.
 
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LoveofTruth

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I'm sure this will end up in the Sabbath and the Law subforum soon. There are those who want to put gentiles under the Law against what the Bible says ignoring the Old Testament which equates that Gentiles have to become Jews to partake of the Law and ignoring Paul and the council of Jerusalem in their writings and edicts which refutes the Law as binding on Christians.


Yes i know some ignore it some twist things, some have a veil on their heart in reading the OT, some are not saved, some are believers bound up under wrong teaching etc etc. I feel for my brothers and sister who are troubled in their spirit about these things and have trouble understanding, as they are tossed about by the fast talking men who have pages and pages of justification why we should keep the law and sabbaths and tithing, feast days, dietary issues etc
 
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Sophrosyne

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Yes i know some ignore it some twist things, some have a veil on their heart in reading the OT, some are not saved, some are believers bound up under wrong teaching etc etc. I feel for my brothers and sister who are troubled in their spirit about these things and have trouble understanding, as they are tossed about by the fast talking men who have pages and pages of justification why we should keep the law and sabbaths and tithing, feast days, dietary issues etc
I think you will find the Sabbath/Law subforum full of folks who refuse to acknowledge the utterly awesomeness of Paul's Gospel of Grace many cannot accept salvation because IMO they don't believe it is totally free no strings attached. It is akin to someone giving you a free car then telling you that unless you drive in a certain fashion and change the oil on a certain schedule and clean it and so on they will take it away from you.
 
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LoveofTruth

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I think you will find the Sabbath/Law subforum full of folks who refuse to acknowledge the utterly awesomeness of Paul's Gospel of Grace many cannot accept salvation because IMO they don't believe it is totally free no strings attached. It is akin to someone giving you a free car then telling you that unless you drive in a certain fashion and change the oil on a certain schedule and clean it and so on they will take it away from you.


what so many miss is that when we are broken by Gods work and Light that reproves all things John 3 Hebrews 4:12 etc, we can only come to God through faith in what he offers and he gives his Son Jesus Christ. When we believe in Gods righteousness for our salvation, then Jesus Christ dwells in our heart by faith. God now works in us to will and to do and to make us perfect unto every good work. This faith is how we overcome the world 1 John 5. In this faith we are a new creation and partakers of the divine nature and in Christ. As we abide in Christ in this faith God works in us. Its when men are hardened through the deceitfulness of sin that they can have an evil heart of unbelief and depart from the living God Hebrews 3 or when they go back under the law and seek to be righteous by establishing their own righteousness according to the law.

. It is not works that saved us or works that lose it but by grace we are saved through faith, . The faith and unbelief are the pivoting points. Whatsoever is not of faith is sin. But this new life we live in is in the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. When men are not in this they are under the law of sin and death, that it that the law condemns them and exposes their sin and is a ministration of death and condemnation. To try and establish their own righteousness by seeking to keep this law, they will only find that they fail. For without Christ we can do nothing. But now they swill say, "but when we come to Christ we now keep the law of Moses because we have a new heart etc". But this is not understood right. We fulfill the law because we have love in our heart the law is showing men that they are not in that love when they break it. We don't need to be told to not steal from our neighbour etc, because we love them in Christ love. Love covers every aspects of life. The law is not giving any the power to do right it was added because of transgressions, and by the law is the KNOWLEDGE of sin, not the power over it. When we come to Christ we are free from the law as Paul said but not without law to God.

Yes when a believer sins and turns from faith and God and goes into evil, they are exposed by the law again. But just being exposed and shown that they are sinful, does not make them righteous.

When they come to Christ they are no longer under the schoolmaster. The schoolmaster brings them unto Christ to be justified by faith.

many should consider what the difference from the law of sin and death and the law of their Spirit of life in Christ Jesus are.

The law actually provokes the sin nature of man as Paul said in Romans 7.
 
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James Is Back

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Thread moved from General Theology to Sabbath and The Law.

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Open Heart

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You have to remember that Paul was writing to Gentiles in Corinth, not to Jews. The Gentiles there had been given mistaken teaching by Jewish Christians that they needed to observe the Torah, and Paul was trying to talk them out of it. He was bringing the message of the Council of Jerusalem to them, that Gentile believers need not be circumcised and observe the Law. However, that Council left in place that Jews should observe Torah, and none of Paul's letters are addressed to Jews.
 
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Steeno7

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You have to remember that Paul was writing to Gentiles in Corinth, not to Jews. The Gentiles there had been given mistaken teaching by Jewish Christians that they needed to observe the Torah, and Paul was trying to talk them out of it. He was bringing the message of the Council of Jerusalem to them, that Gentile believers need not be circumcised and observe the Law. However, that Council left in place that Jews should observe Torah, and none of Paul's letters are addressed to Jews.

Hanging your hat on the "council" is to remain stuck where they were in their understanding, and their understanding was still in its infancy.
 
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Open Heart

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Hanging your hat on the "council" is to remain stuck where they were in their understanding, and their understanding was still in its infancy.
Oh my gosh! It was an authoritative council, led by the apostles who were taught by Jesus himself. You can't get better than that.
 
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Sophrosyne

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You have to remember that Paul was writing to Gentiles in Corinth, not to Jews. The Gentiles there had been given mistaken teaching by Jewish Christians that they needed to observe the Torah, and Paul was trying to talk them out of it. He was bringing the message of the Council of Jerusalem to them, that Gentile believers need not be circumcised and observe the Law. However, that Council left in place that Jews should observe Torah, and none of Paul's letters are addressed to Jews.
I disagree Paul was speaking only to Gentiles, why would he need to mention NOT to uncircumcise yourself to a gentile?
1 Corinthians 7:17-20New American Standard Bible (NASB)
17 Only, as the Lord has assigned to each one, as God has called each, in this manner let him walk. And so I direct in all the churches. 18 Was any man called when he was already circumcised? He is not to become uncircumcised. Has anyone been called in uncircumcision? He is not to be circumcised. 19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God. 20 Each man must remain in that condition in which he was called.
 
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Open Heart

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I disagree Paul was speaking only to Gentiles, why would he need to mention NOT to uncircumcise yourself to a gentile?
These were Gentiles that had been Judaized.
 
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