The "Spare the rod, spoil the child 's" two different interpretations, what's....

[Neogaia777]

The "Spare the rod, spoil the child 's" two different interpretations, what's....?"

What's the word (literary term) I'm looking for that describes one line having dual and yet opposite meanings, interpretations of perspective, (opinions) on this...?

Out of curiousity, what are your opinions on this: Do we spank, or not spank our children (and at what ages) according to this line, and/or, the Bible... Do we spoil them? Surely that's not what this line is saying is it?

Opinions? Thoughts?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Does "spare" mean to put away?, or does the passage mean "if you spare" (the rod, you spoil the child)?

How do you interpret?

Perhaps someone can tell us what the word translated "spare" is, in that passage, in Hebrew or Greek?

God Bless!

 

[goxfiles]

I've always interpreted that to mean that if you don't discipline your child (e.g by spanking him or her, hence the rod) then they will be spoiled.

 

[Neogaia777]

I've always interpreted that to mean that if you don't discipline your child (e.g by spanking him or her, hence the rod) then they will be spoiled.

And yet some interpret that "spare" means to put away the rod and go ahead and spoil the child...

Why is it that you believe it the way you do?

Do you believe that your way is the way that scripture is meant to be interpreted?

If so, why?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

I just found this, apparently it doesn't mean to put the rod aside, and spoil the child after all...

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...3_zdu3TBENpfizcuw&sig2=swQhAMmCyTnwol6a6-Jzxw

God Bless!

 

[Lollerskates]

The "Spare the rod, spoil the child 's" two different interpretations, what's....?"

What's the word (literary term) I'm looking for that describes one line having dual and yet opposite meanings, interpretations of perspective, (opinions) on this...?

Out of curiousity, what are your opinions on this: Do we spank, or not spank our children (and at what ages) according to this line, and/or, the Bible... Do we spoil them? Surely that's not what this line is saying is it?

Opinions? Thoughts?

God Bless!

Children need to be disciplined, just as spiritual children go through spiritual spankings. If there were none of the sort, there would be no learning.

if your child is very old (18+++) and spankings don't get the message across, then there is a much deeper issue at hand. Spankings are not long term solutions as discipline; a child that need numerous spankings is a child that does not get it in the first place. My parents stopped at 14 (that is just me.) Some stop at 8. Some give up at 29. It is about the child getting the message, not so much the physical discipline.

 

[Neogaia777]

Children need to be disciplined, just as spiritual children go through spiritual spankings. If there were none of the sort, there would be no learning.

if your child is very old (18+++) and spankings don't get the message across, then there is a much deeper issue at hand. Spankings are not long term solutions as discipline; a child that need numerous spankings is a child that does not get it in the first place. My parents stopped at 14 (that is just me.) Some stop at 8. Some give up at 29. It is about the child getting the message, not so much the physical discipline.

There are many other forms of discipline, according to age appropriateness.

But I have seen some use this line as an excuse to never, ever spank their children, I have a relative that believes this line to be interpreted in that way (to forego discipline and spoil the child)...

But I believe my relative believes this because of the physical abuse he suffered at the hands of his father as a child, and I believe this is why he won't spank his kids, but I am of the belief that one spanking (early on) and maybe a time out, can save a whole lot of trouble, later on down the road. What do you think?

God Bless!

 

[pescador]

"Spare the rod and spoil the child" cannot justify beatings or physically harming a child.

Psalm 23 says "your rod and your staff they comfort me". The shepherd isn't beating the sheep, he is gently guiding them.

 

[Neogaia777]

"Spare the rod and spoil the child" cannot justify beatings or physically harming a child.

You said, "Psalm 23 says "your rod and your staff they comfort me". The shepherd isn't beating the sheep, he is gently guiding them."

I'm not saying it should, but parents need to be taught to keep emotion out of it,(and if your still fired up, maybe taking some time to cool down and think the situation through, before acting) when spanking. (no ones justifying beatings here, or abuse) But controlled discipline...

What if your young child is playing on the sidewalk and almost runs out in front of a car, (when you have been trying to teach them over and over/about running into the street), and they do it anyways and almost get run over by a car? Do you spank them or not?, should that be immediate action in which your emotions (acting upon emotional impulse) are involved, or not?

So, I take it you don't believe in spanking your young children as a form of discipline then, I take it?

Why or why not?

What leads you to these conclusions? Did you ever get physically abused as a child?

Psalm 23 says "your rod and your staff they comfort me". The shepherd isn't beating the sheep, he is gently guiding them.

What's the difference between a rod and a staff?, God says he uses both, though maybe on sheep he only has to use the staff, but what about a lion, or a tiger, or a snake? People have different personalities and were not all sheep unfortunately. Diciplining out of fear and under threat is something God did use, historically, (maybe the rod), but he says "the rod and thy staff...", so maybe there's a difference...

God Bless!

 

[RDKirk]

"Spare the rod and spoil the child" cannot justify beatings or physically harming a child.

Psalm 23 says "your rod and your staff they comfort me". The shepherd isn't beating the sheep, he is gently guiding them.

It also says:

Proverbs 22:15 says “Folly is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of discipline will drive it far from him.”

and

Proverbs 23:13 says, “Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you punish him with the rod, he will not die.”

You have to start twisting it quite hard to pretend it's not talking about physical punishment.

The staff was the hooked instrument you most often see pictured with shepherds and was unique to them. The rod was just a shorter, stout stick or cudgel that was used more as a weapon. But the rod was also used as a measuring standard, and I think "spare the rod and spoil the child" can be interpreted justifiably as meaning "have no consistent standard; spoil the child."

But those additional proverbs definitely mean that the interpretation as physical punishment can't be denied.

 

[Neogaia777]

If we compare it (the line) in it complete context, then we can derive that most certainly the "rod" was used for physical punishment, and if we put it in it's context, we can better understand what this was meant to mean,

Again, the link I posted in post #5 of this thread:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...3_zdu3TBENpfizcuw&sig2=swQhAMmCyTnwol6a6-Jzxw

Proverbs 13:24- "Whoever spares the rod hates their children, but the one who loves their children is careful to discipline them." How they got "spare the rod, spoil the child" from that, I'll never know...

God Bless!

 

[KrAZeD]

The literary term that comes to mind describing that verse is Syntactic ambiguity.

Spank when and if needed, as a part of a punishment. Not every misbehavior needs to result in a spanking, though some affective form does.

For proof of seeing how correct all those proverbs are in regards to disciplining our children through spankings and such, just look at our current young society. Youth coming up in this generation with parents not spanking and being "friends" with their kids.

An as the proverb says, spanking is only one portion of it. You must spoil your child as well when it's warranted/deserving of it.

 

[Lollerskates]

There are many other forms of discipline, according to age appropriateness.

But I have seen some use this line as an excuse to never, ever spank their children, I have a relative that believes this line to be interpreted in that way (to forego discipline and spoil the child)...

But I believe my relative believes this because of the physical abuse he suffered at the hands of his father as a child, and I believe this is why he won't spank his kids, but I am of the belief that one spanking (early on) and maybe a time out, can save a whole lot of trouble, later on down the road. What do you think?

God Bless!

I consider myself a decent child. I was spanked until I was maybe 12. After that, my parents telling me I disappointed them hurt more than any "rod" could. And, them talking to me for hours, holding me ransom (it felt like) was more painful than a whooping/spanking. I would sometimes beg to be spanked instead... at least I knew it would be over in 30 seconds MAX.

That is just me, though. Some people may need no physical discipline at all, and some may need it until they are out of the household. I do think physical discipline has its place, especially as generations become wiser and wickeder. I have seen people be arrested for rightfully disciplining THEIR child for something that is clearly wrong, and even dangerous. I do not agree with that - the blurring of line between physical discipline and child abuse. The line should be clear, ideally.

I personally believe physical discipline has its place for a season. It will, indeed, protect the child from trouble later on if done with love. Abuse breeds resentment. Time outs can work, but better to have the child feel the sting of a rod with love than be surprised by life's sting - because as we know life is not nearly as loving and gentle as a loving parent's discipline.

EDIT: I said my parents stopped at 14, then at 12 here. It isn't a lie; I don't remember...

I know the spanking stopped at pubescence. Just for clarification lest anyone accuse me.

 

[Andrea411]

The "Spare the rod, spoil the child 's" two different interpretations, what's....?"

What's the word (literary term) I'm looking for that describes one line having dual and yet opposite meanings, interpretations of perspective, (opinions) on this...?

Out of curiousity, what are your opinions on this: Do we spank, or not spank our children (and at what ages) according to this line, and/or, the Bible... Do we spoil them? Surely that's not what this line is saying is it?

Opinions? Thoughts?

God Bless!

The Shepherd uses the rod to guide the sheep. I raise goats, if I were to start whacking them every time they stepped out of line. They would run away and never come to me when I called.
The rod is for guiding, a little swat once in awhile and they are fine with that but never beat the sheep!!. They will always remember and never want to come to you.
If a shepherd has a lamb that will not obey, they finally have to break its leg, then the shepherd must carry the lamb, draped over his neck for weeks; until the lamb learns to listen to his voice.
It's more of a punishment on the shepherd. Kind of like Christ taking our punishment on Himself, so we could learn to listen to his voice.

Wisdom says do not exasperate your children, if you have to ask, you probably have a choice, choose wisely. They will not forget and they will learn from example. Abuse disguise as love, especially when the scriptures are used is a very touchy thing. You are acting like 'the Shepherd' to these children, what is it that you want them to learn about the Lord?

Spanking and a little swat are two very different things. Very young children often cannot comprehend a lot of talk. After the age of three they really begin to understand consequences and forgiveness. Before the age of 18 months, they are still entirely reliant on the adult. Spanking makes no sense and you can teach them to respond by your voice. Spanking is abuse if it leaves any welt.

 

[tturt]

"Rod" means parental authority in Prov 13:24. Strong's dictionary Strong's Greek: 4464. ῥάβδος (rhabdos) -- a staff, rod

We don't follow Deut 21:18-21 but we find that discipline is the responsible thing to do.

There are other Scriptures to help us such as "And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord." Eph 4:6 "A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger." Prov 15:1 (want to get their attention? whisper).

 

[Neogaia777]

"Rod" means parental authority in Prov 13:24. Strong's dictionary Strong's Greek: 4464. ῥάβδος (rhabdos) -- a staff, rod

We don't follow Deut 21:18-21 but we find that discipline is the responsible thing to do.

There are other Scriptures to help us such as "And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord." Eph 4:6 "A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger." Prov 15:1 (want to get their attention? whisper).

Certainly their is a difference between a rod and a staff though, right?

 

[Neogaia777]

The literary term that comes to mind describing that verse is Syntactic ambiguity.

Spank when and if needed, as a part of a punishment. Not every misbehavior needs to result in a spanking, though some affective form does.

For proof of seeing how correct all those proverbs are in regards to disciplining our children through spankings and such, just look at our current young society. Youth coming up in this generation with parents not spanking and being "friends" with their kids.

An as the proverb says, spanking is only one portion of it. You must spoil your child as well when it's warranted/deserving of it.

Syntactic Ambiguity, thank you!

God Bless!