The Sinners Prayer is not enough

[annrobert]

Thats exactly right because the Bible tells us before the new birth we are slaves to our sin nature. After the new birth the Holy Spirit empowers us and we are able to have victory over our old sin nature although we will still struggle with it from time to time until the day we are finally glorified in Christ Jesus.

amen so true

Sadly enough thats probably true. The sinners prayer imo has done more damage to what true salvation is all about than anything else I can think of at the moment.

John 3:18
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

I think it is because people do not believe in Jesus that they are condemned and not on whether or not they say a sinners prayer.
They must believe on Jesus
and not on whether or not they said a prayer
and not on how slow or quickly they came to Jesus
and not how many good works they did or did not do
believing in good works will not do it
believing in a said prayer will not do it
having faith in faith instead of Jesus will not do it
having faith in responding in what some people consider a timely fashion will not do it

Jesus said He that believeth on Him is not condemned

and He that believeth not is condemend already because He believeth not

Whoever believes in Jesus shall not be ashamed


Jesus said the work of God is to believe in Jesus

Jesus said verily verily I say unto you he that believeth on Me has everlasting life

Jesus is Truth

 

[wayfaring man]

That is correct however salvation is still all of God. The Bible tells us that no man can come to Jesus unless the Father who sent Jesus draws the person. This drawing is the enabling of the person by the Holy Ghost for the person to be able to come to Jesus for salvation.

Yes -

No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, comes unto me. <-----> John 6:44+45

But upon what basis does God choose to draw someone to come to Jesus and be saved ?

Jesus also said , he is the light of the world . With that in mind consider the following -

For every one that does evil hates the light, neither comes to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
But he that does truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. <-----> John 3:20+21

[ Notice Scripture doesn't say " he that does good comes to the light " , which would seem the logical opposite of " those that do evil hating the light " ... why - because before Christ has been received - " there is none that does good, no, not one. " <---> From Romans 3:12 But Scripture says , " he that does truth comes to the light " : For if we are willing to be honest , ( though sinners ), we are drawn to the light , which testifies that we have some desire infused with a measure of hope / faith in God's willingness and ability to forgive and cleanse us of our sin ; which we couldn't have if we were in denial , or seeking to hide our sin so as to continue in it as though it were a secret none can discern or reprove us over .]

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From G227; truth: - true, X truly, truth, verity.

G227
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From G1 (as a negative particle) and G2990; true (as not concealing): - true, truly, truth.


Behold , is not the basis of God's choosing that we " do what is true " , or in other words - that we are honest ?


Consider -

He that covers his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesses and forsakes them shall have mercy. <-----> Proverbs 28:13

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. <-----> 1st John 1:9+10

Therefore , any kind of " sinner's prayer " would have to be an honest plea and truthful admission to be acceptable as an indication that the Father was truly drawing someone to Christ to be saved .

Over-coaching in a religious zeal ( for added converts ) with a lack of true knowledge of God's priorities is counterproductive for Salvation , and may indeed give folks a false sense of being saved .

May we know better !

And May The Lord Be Pleased !

wm

 

[Ariellamb]

James in chapter 2 talks about Faith and Works (which should follow after the other)
He then goes on to say that as a body without its spirit is dead
So is Faith without Works.

If i died now and you walked in my room where i lay on the floor you might think i was alive but just sleeping as you saw my body,but the truth would be although death had taken me your looks had deceived you until later when i started to smell and lose colour.
Thus we cannot see as God see's many times,as we do not have perfect knowledge.
Where as there are times when like David another Christian may sin and we judge them all to quickly, like Davids fall with Bathsheba from which he was restored again.

All in all James 2 & 3 give us many answeres to this Q of the sinners prayer.

 

[torahpointstoHim]

A sinner's prayer is not a wrong thing, for me that is. Such prayer should be done with humility, intention and true repentance (a change in ourselves).

On the other hand, who are we praying to? Do we really know Him? Or do we just hang on to our "Faith in the Air" and just try to "Feel" out Creator? The Bible can be found everywhere, and let it just collect dust. We hang on to the preachings of other people, assuming they are right. We don't spent much time in reading "The Book" and following it. We hang on to the short incomplete "verses", that sometimes we have no idea what it really means or reading the whole context of the writings.

How can ask forgiveness to someone, we never tried to know and follow? He wrote "the Book" as an instruction on how to avoid sin. On the other hand, we can only obey His instructions onlythrough the Holy Spirit. This is only what I believe, though.

 

[holyrokker]

Yes -

No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, comes unto me. <-----> John 6:44+45

But upon what basis does God choose to draw someone to come to Jesus and be saved ?

Jesus also said , he is the light of the world . With that in mind consider the following -

For every one that does evil hates the light, neither comes to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
But he that does truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. <-----> John 3:20+21

[ Notice Scripture doesn't say " he that does good comes to the light " , which would seem the logical opposite of " those that do evil hating the light " ... why - because before Christ has been received - " there is none that does good, no, not one. " <---> From Romans 3:12 But Scripture says , " he that does truth comes to the light " : For if we are willing to be honest , ( though sinners ), we are drawn to the light , which testifies that we have some desire infused with a measure of hope / faith in God's willingness and ability to forgive and cleanse us of our sin ; which we couldn't have if we were in denial , or seeking to hide our sin so as to continue in it as though it were a secret none can discern or reprove us over .]

G225
&#945;&#787;&#955;&#951;&#769;&#952;&#949;&#953;&#945;
ale&#772;theia
al-ay'-thi-a
From G227; truth: - true, X truly, truth, verity.

G227
&#945;&#787;&#955;&#951;&#952;&#951;&#769;&#962;
ale&#772;the&#772;s
al-ay-thace'
From G1 (as a negative particle) and G2990; true (as not concealing): - true, truly, truth.


Behold , is not the basis of God's choosing that we " do what is true " , or in other words - that we are honest ?


Consider -

He that covers his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesses and forsakes them shall have mercy. <-----> Proverbs 28:13

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. <-----> 1st John 1:9+10

Therefore , any kind of " sinner's prayer " would have to be an honest plea and truthful admission to be acceptable as an indication that the Father was truly drawing someone to Christ to be saved .

Over-coaching in a religious zeal ( for added converts ) with a lack of true knowledge of God's priorities is counterproductive for Salvation , and may indeed give folks a false sense of being saved .

May we know better !

And May The Lord Be Pleased !

wm

Good points!


In John 6 Jesus is speaking to a group of Jewish unbelievers. They were relying upon their heritage as their access to God.

When Jesus told them that no one could come to Him unless the Father draw them, one of the implications was that their heritage as descendents of Abraham was of no help to them.

We also know, from Hebrews 11, that "without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him."

God is not going to "draw" a group of people who are stubborn in unbelief.

The word "draw" can also include the meaning of "lead". (Like leading a horse with the reins)

In the John 6 discourse, Jesus also says "Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me."

Listening is part of the process of coming to Jesus. The Father will not draw anyone who is not listening.

 

[VCViking]

"This truth has tremendous and far-reaching implications for many who profess faith in Christ. How many on the street and in the pew believe that they are “saved” and thoroughly “Christian” because one time they prayed a prayer and asked Jesus to come into their hearts? Their lives have never changed, they show no evidence of the grace of God, and yet they stand assured of their salvation because of one decision in their past and their belief that their prayer was truly sincere. No matter how popular such a belief, there are no biblical grounds for it." - Paul Washer

 

[Ariellamb]

"This truth has tremendous and far-reaching implications for many who profess faith in Christ. How many on the street and in the pew believe that they are “saved” and thoroughly “Christian” because one time they prayed a prayer and asked Jesus to come into their hearts? Their lives have never changed, they show no evidence of the grace of God, and yet they stand assured of their salvation because of one decision in their past and their belief that their prayer was truly sincere. No matter how popular such a belief, there are no biblical grounds for it." - Paul Washer

That is the saddest part
re;post 1

 

[Cassidy]

A person who is dead in his sins cannot and will not turn from sin until God intervenes in that persons life. I believe regeneration from the Holy Spirit comes first and then he empowers us to turn from our sinful ways.

To suggest that a lost person must turn from sin in order to be saved is an impossiblity until that person is regenerated.

The turning from sin will be a result of the persons salvation, not a requirement for it.

Yes an unregenerated person cannot 'will' to be saved. They do not know God and do not seek after God (romans1).

 

[revrobor]

Yes an unregenerated person cannot 'will' to be saved. They do not know God and do not seek after God (romans1).

What you and Robertz are saying smacks of the "God causes a person to repent" theology". While the Holy Spirit may call a person to repent that person still has the freedom to refuse. That person must make the choice to turn to God and the instant he does he has turned from his sinful ways and is saved. Will he ever sin again? Yes. But the difference is after he has made that decision he has forgiveness because of what God has done through Jesus on the cross. Romans 1 is referring to those in the past, before the cross, who knew of God but refused to turn to Him.

 

[Ariellamb]

What you and Robertz are saying smacks of the "God causes a person to repent" theology". While the Holy Spirit may call a person to repent that person still has the freedom to refuse. That person must make the choice to turn to God and the instant he does he has turned from his sinful ways and is saved. Will he ever sin again? Yes. But the difference is after he has made that decision he has forgiveness because of what God has done through Jesus on the cross. Romans 1 is referring to those in the past, before the cross, who knew of God but refused to turn to Him.

Agree

The other angle is dangerous and not of Gods word, or of His offer to sinners that they can accept or reject what He says He will do for them,in taking away their sin & giving eternal life.

 

[Cassidy]

What you and Robertz are saying smacks of the "God causes a person to repent" theology". While the Holy Spirit may call a person to repent that person still has the freedom to refuse. That person must make the choice to turn to God and the instant he does he has turned from his sinful ways and is saved. Will he ever sin again? Yes. But the difference is after he has made that decision he has forgiveness because of what God has done through Jesus on the cross. Romans 1 is referring to those in the past, before the cross, who knew of God but refused to turn to Him.

Well that's what I believe, since we are unable to repent as we are without first being drawn and regenerated and given the gift of faith. How can we believe when we don't have the ability to believe?

I feel that you are right in the sense that one must turn to God and make that choice, but I believe that we 'choose' because God gives us the ability and the will to choose. That makes our salvation about God and not us. It's christ that saves, not us.

I believe that Romans 1 is talking about the unregenerated....the Christless.

 

[revrobor]

Well that's what I believe, since we are unable to repent as we are without first being drawn and regenerated and given the gift of faith. How can we believe when we don't have the ability to believe?

I feel that you are right in the sense that one must turn to God and make that choice, but I believe that we 'choose' because God gives us the ability and the will to choose. That makes our salvation about God and not us. It's christ that saves, not us.

I believe that Romans 1 is talking about the unregenerated....the Christless.

For God to give Us the will to turn to Him makes us puppets. It is God the Holy Spirit who draws us but does not make us will to accept. Our salvation IS indeed of God in that He provided the Way - Jesus Christ.
Yes, Romans 1 is ultimately referring to the "Christless" those who know about God but MAKE A CHOICE TO REJECT His salvation.

 

[Cassidy]

They are unable to NOT make that choice though. They can only ever reject Christ because they do not have the ability or the will to accept him.

So I ask you this....what makes one person choose God and not another?

 

[revrobor]

They are unable to NOT make that choice though. They can only ever reject Christ because they do not have the ability or the will to accept him.

So I ask you this....what makes one person choose God and not another?

Nothing "makes" them. Of their own free will they are responding to the drawing of the Holy Spirit. God will not save anyone against their will.

 

[Ariellamb]

Agree

The other angle is dangerous and not of Gods word, or of His offer to sinners that they can accept or reject what He says He will do for them,in taking away their sin & giving eternal life.

Upon reflection

Both veiws are correct imho,i was wrong to assume so quickly upon reading the for and against posts on this subject.

Like many other subjects in Scripture i am coming to understand that there may not always be a deciding vote one way or the other. But that Both veiws will hold 'some'of the truth.

 

[holyrokker]

They are unable to NOT make that choice though. They can only ever reject Christ because they do not have the ability or the will to accept him.

So I ask you this....what makes one person choose God and not another?

Unbelief is not a matter of inability to believe. Unbelief is a rejection of the truth. It is a refusal to believe even when faced with clear truth.

Unbelief is a matter of volition: "the cognitive process by which an individual decides on and commits to a particular course of action."

 

[VCViking]

Upon reflection

Both veiws are correct imho,i was wrong to assume so quickly upon reading the for and against posts on this subject.

Like many other subjects in Scripture i am coming to understand that there may not always be a deciding vote one way or the other. But that Both veiws will hold 'some'of the truth.

Amen!

God draws us, we are elected onto salvation and at the same time we have to make a choice.

As John MacArthur was asked this question, he responded:

"Are we chosen to be saved, or do we choose ourselves to be saved?" Right? Did I come to Jesus Christ because I was irresistibly drawn by God and had nothing to do with it, or did I come to Christ because my heart said, “I want to come to Christ?” And, the answer is yes. Isn’t that simple?"

 

[Cassidy]

Nothing "makes" them. Of their own free will they are responding to the drawing of the Holy Spirit. God will not save anyone against their will.

Let me reword it then. Why do some choose to be saved and some don't? And saving doesn't happen against anyone's will, but where do they get the 'will' to be saved?

Unbelief is not a matter of inability to believe. Unbelief is a rejection of the truth. It is a refusal to believe even when faced with clear truth.

Unbelief is a matter of volition: "the cognitive process by which an individual decides on and commits to a particular course of action."

And Romans 1 says that he shows his glory through his creation so that there is no excuse. The lack of belief is lack of belief full stop. They are faced with the clear truth through his creation and yet they don't believe. They also can't believe either unless they are given the ability through the drawing of the Holy Spirit.

 

[revrobor]

Let me reword it then. Why do some choose to be saved and some don't? And saving doesn't happen against anyone's will, but where do they get the 'will' to be saved?

No one can answer why some choose to follow God and some don't. That's between them and God. Those who don't, of course, have made the wrong choice. But it's their choice. Where do you get the will to make these posts? Where do you get the will to get up in the morning and go to work? Where do you get the will to take a shower? It is part of the freedom God has created us with - to make choices. We can choose to follow God or we can choose to reject Him. It's up to us. I can see the word game you are trying to play. You may be part of a group that believes God chooses who will be saved, I don't know. But I have answered this question repeatedly in many different ways and I'm not interested in playing any longer.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

I agree with the OP

I was involved with a campus ministry that was really focused on getting people to say the 'sinners prayer'.. but sometimes people would say the prayer and then just assume they're "saved" and not do anything else, just go back to their old ways.