The Rod of Iron

BabylonWeary

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What is the rod of iron?

Psalms 2:9
"Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel."

Revelation 2:27
"And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father."

Iron is a strong metal, is magnetic or can be magnetized, and I've heard that it is also why blood is red. If it is about smashing pottery, that seems to be violent imagery, or what is the symbolism of that?

In Psalm 2, which is apparently being referenced in the Revelation, the rod of iron is a power used against kings and rulers who are plotting against God, and it's an almost comical situation they should believe it's even possible to do. In the Revelation, though, is no laughing matter, yet there is a blessing to those who overcome the devil's influences.

So it's not just about a violent action, swinging a stick and beating someone with it, but to rule with it. To rule is to make rules or to enforce rules, hence the question, what exactly is the rod of iron?
 

katerinah1947

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What is the rod of iron?

Psalms 2:9
"Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel."

Revelation 2:27
"And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father."

Iron is a strong metal, is magnetic or can be magnetized, and I've heard that it is also why blood is red. If it is about smashing pottery, that seems to be violent imagery, or what is the symbolism of that?

In Psalm 2, which is apparently being referenced in the Revelation, the rod of iron is a power used against kings and rulers who are plotting against God, and it's an almost comical situation they should believe it's even possible to do. In the Revelation, though, is no laughing matter, yet there is a blessing to those who overcome the devil's influences.

So it's not just about a violent action, swinging a stick and beating someone with it, but to rule with it. To rule is to make rules or to enforce rules, hence the question, what exactly is the rod of iron?

Hi,
Another amazing thing about Iron, it has the lowest amount of extractable nuclear energy, meaning it's nucleus, produces no usable energy if it is broken up, nor if it is added to, that also does not produce any usable energy.
I don't know the answer to your question.
LOVE,
...Mary., .... .
 
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katerinah1947

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Hi,
If I am allowed to guess, the rod of iron, is just capableness. I mean, that whether it is Jesus, written as my Lord or our Lord, or whether it is God The Father, written as The Lord in Psalms 2, it may just mean capableness, whether a real rod of Iron is used or not.
Oddly enough, I just purchased a rod of Iron from the store this week. It is one inch in diameter, or maybe an inch and a half, and about 6 feet long. I purchased it because shovels, do a poor job of lifting heavy stones, by prying using leverage.
This bar is heavy. If someone dashed me with it, there is no question in my mind, after hefting this around some, that it is quite capable on me or on objects of enforcing it's intended purpose, rather than yeilding.
Another interestng thing about iron, is that whether compressed or stretching forces are put on it, the strength is roughly the same. Few materials I'm told, act like that.
LOVE,
...Mary., .... .
 
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BabylonWeary

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Well, one insight is to be gained by looking at the figurative uses of the words as opposed to the literal:

Rod - " shebet " ( Strong's Hebrew # 7626 ) - tribe, clan, ( as a mark of authority )
Iron - " barzel " ( Strong's Hebrew # 1270 ) - harshness, strength, oppression

Does that imply the sign of the cross?
 
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BabylonWeary

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Hi,
If I am allowed to guess, the rod of iron, is just capableness. I mean, that whether it is Jesus, written as my Lord or our Lord, or whether it is God The Father, written as The Lord in Psalms 2, it may just mean capableness, whether a real rod of Iron is used or not.

Capableness... I think that makes sense. It takes a lot of effort to get the iron, to get the ore and process it, and to work it into shape. Clay pottery is less intense by comparison.
 
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CalmRon

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Psalm 2 is talking about the anointed of the lord reign as king over creation, the passage in revelation is saying the Jesus is the anointed one in psalms. I don't know about the imagery of the rod of iron though. It may well be connected to the image of kingship.
 
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BabylonWeary

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My sense of it, in Psalm 2 the rod of iron is given from the Father to the Son, and then in Revelation 2 it is given from the Son to His disciples, and includes with it the morning star. I've been told that the Word of God is the rod of iron, or that the Word of God is a double edged sword, or the scriptures are likened unto that in a manner of interpretation, something like the "it takes one to know one" effect. That makes sense in a way, but my understanding of the Word is all the plans and promises of God, even the very design of the cosmos, gone into the Creation. That would include all the true laws of physics and chemistry, so the ideal properties and characteristics of iron atoms, and how they react and interact with other molecules, ought to be in there.
 
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ViaCrucis

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What is the rod of iron?

Psalms 2:9
"Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel."

Revelation 2:27
"And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father."

Iron is a strong metal, is magnetic or can be magnetized, and I've heard that it is also why blood is red. If it is about smashing pottery, that seems to be violent imagery, or what is the symbolism of that?

In Psalm 2, which is apparently being referenced in the Revelation, the rod of iron is a power used against kings and rulers who are plotting against God, and it's an almost comical situation they should believe it's even possible to do. In the Revelation, though, is no laughing matter, yet there is a blessing to those who overcome the devil's influences.

So it's not just about a violent action, swinging a stick and beating someone with it, but to rule with it. To rule is to make rules or to enforce rules, hence the question, what exactly is the rod of iron?

A rod, staff, or scepter has been a symbol of rulership for much of ancient civilization (and even up to and including modern civilization). For example in ancient Egypt we often see gods and pharaohs depicted with a was, a staff, it symbolized their royal authority. Examples of rods, scepters, and similar things can be found in pictures and artifacts throughout much of the ancient world--not exclusive to Western civilization. A rod of iron would be a symbol of strength and dominion.

Psalm 2 and its allusion in the Apocalypse point to the one who has the rod as one with real authority. In this case it is Christ. Christ is true King, true Lord, and is the One who truly reigns and has power and dominion over all things. All rulers, powers, authority, and dominion is subject to Jesus Christ who reigns at the right hand of the Father as King of kings and Lord of lords--with all things subjected to Him, for He has authority over all things.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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BabylonWeary

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A rod, staff, or scepter has been a symbol of rulership for much of ancient civilization (and even up to and including modern civilization). For example in ancient Egypt we often see gods and pharaohs depicted with a was, a staff, it symbolized their royal authority. Examples of rods, scepters, and similar things can be found in pictures and artifacts throughout much of the ancient world--not exclusive to Western civilization. A rod of iron would be a symbol of strength and dominion.

Psalm 2 and its allusion in the Apocalypse point to the one who has the rod as one with real authority. In this case it is Christ. Christ is true King, true Lord, and is the One who truly reigns and has power and dominion over all things. All rulers, powers, authority, and dominion is subject to Jesus Christ who reigns at the right hand of the Father as King of kings and Lord of lords--with all things subjected to Him, for He has authority over all things.

-CryptoLutheran

This is very informative, thank you. It's tempting, though. Do the symbols of authority ever seem cartoonish? There is one like a disc with wings, I can't remember what it's called. I think the state highway patrol has a similar logo, like a flying wheel. Iron scepter, strength and dominion, but in a heavenly, spiritual way. If the Bible is made of paper and ink, doesn't quite match, though it could be a good metaphor. Is ink made of iron?

Definitive answers are hard to come by, and this way of royal instrumentation, or whatever it's called, I don't know. I think if the governor came out with some ornamental stick his career would be over as people accuse him of not having a mind in tune with reality, even though there are all kinds of these symbols and coats of arms and heraldry throughout the country. People can say what they mean, but asking where is the immediate source?

So there is a great throne in heaven, and there is seated God, and there He carries an iron rod... that is easy enough to comprehend, but is iron the same substance in the heaven as it is in the earth, if one is spirit and the other is physical, material?
 
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BabylonWeary

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Yup. Temptation got the better of me just now. Somebody says, "whoever has the rod of iron is the one with real authority," even while I have open the Revelation to chapter 11 which mentions a reed to measure the temple, the alter, and the worshipers therein. Please forgive me, I mean no disrespect, but if the apostle Paul, who is also called Saul, can set a house divided by turning the gospels of Messiah against the laws of Moses, does it matter what he wrote himself or even believed because so many Christians do that anyways by him, very well, should I be so humble or should I proclaim that one greater than Saul is here? We are in this world, but we are not of this world, and to illustrate this fact, what can I say?

iron2.png


Anyone who is able to translate that into English is welcome to discuss with me, but I am tired of this world, but I am thankful to God for what small comforts I've received. I am especially thankful for chapter 5 of the book of Daniel.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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*snip*
Yup. Temptation got the better of me just now. Somebody says, "whoever has the rod of iron is the one with real authority," even while I have open the Revelation to chapter 11 which mentions a reed to measure the temple, the alter, and the worshipers therein. Please forgive me, I mean no disrespect, but if the apostle Paul, who is also called Saul, can set a house divided by turning the gospels of Messiah against the laws of Moses, does it matter what he wrote himself or even believed because so many Christians do that anyways by him, very well, should I be so humble or should I proclaim that one greater than Saul is here?..................
If I may make a correction.
The greek word for "Temple" is never used in the Jewish/Hebrew book of Revelation. Rather it is the "Sanctuary" which resided inside the Temple which only the Priests could enter:

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G3485&t=YLT
Strong's Number G3485 matches the Greek ναός (naos),
which occurs 46 times in 40 verses in the Greek concordance
Outline of Biblical Usage
  1. used of the temple at Jerusalem, but only of the sacred edifice (or sanctuary) itself, consisting of the Holy place and the Holy of Holies (in classical Greek it is used of the sanctuary or cell of the temple, where the image of the god was placed which is distinguished from the whole enclosure)
Revelation 11:1
And was given to me a reed like-as rod saying "rouse! and measure! the Sanctuary/naoV <3485> of the GOD and the altar and those worshipping in it

Reve 15:8
And is being replete the Sanctuary/naoV <3485> of smoke out of the Glory of the God and out of the power of Him.
And no one was *able to be entering into the Sanctuary/naon <3485> until should be being finished the seven blows of the seven Messengers.


Revelation 21:22
And a Sanctuary/naon <3485> I did not see in it, for the Lord God, the Almighty, is its Sanctuary/naoV <3485> and the Lamb

http://www.nsbible.org/sits_ts/v0s1.htm
The Camp--The Court--The Tabernacle--The Brazen Altar--The Laver-- The Table--The Lampstand--The Golden Altar--The Mercy Seat and Ark--The Gate--The First Veil--The Second Veil--The Significance of These and Their Antitypes.

http://www.bible.ca/pre-destruction70AD-george-holford-1805AD.htm

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover; and it is deserving of the very particular attention of the reader, that this was the anniversary of that memorable period in which the Jews crucified their Messiah!.......................

The Temple now presented little more than a heap of ruins; and the Roman army as in triumph on the event, came and reared their ensigns against a fragment of the eastern gate, and, with sacrifices of thanksgiving, proclaimed the imperial majesty of Titus, with every possible demonstration of joy.................
 
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BabylonWeary

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That is interesting. I am unfamiliar with Tengwar, but I know that is a fiction, meant for entertainment. There will always be the profane who assume this is fantasy. I use a design that resembles letters of the alphabet because that is more comfortable, but this has much more in common with the periodic table of elements, hence the discussion of iron.
 
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BabylonWeary

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If I may make a correction.
The greek word for "Temple" is never used in the Jewish/Hebrew book of Revelation. Rather it is the "Sanctuary" which resided inside the Temple which only the Priests could enter:

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G3485&t=YLT
Strong's Number G3485 matches the Greek ναός (naos),
which occurs 46 times in 40 verses in the Greek concordance
Outline of Biblical Usage
  1. used of the temple at Jerusalem, but only of the sacred edifice (or sanctuary) itself, consisting of the Holy place and the Holy of Holies (in classical Greek it is used of the sanctuary or cell of the temple, where the image of the god was placed which is distinguished from the whole enclosure)
Revelation 11:1
And was given to me a reed like-as rod saying "rouse! and measure! the Sanctuary/naoV <3485> of the GOD and the altar and those worshipping in it

Reve 15:8
And is being replete the Sanctuary/naoV <3485> of smoke out of the Glory of the God and out of the power of Him.
And no one was *able to be entering into the Sanctuary/naon <3485> until should be being finished the seven blows of the seven Messengers.


Revelation 21:22
And a Sanctuary/naon <3485> I did not see in it, for the Lord God, the Almighty, is its Sanctuary/naoV <3485> and the Lamb

http://www.nsbible.org/sits_ts/v0s1.htm
The Camp--The Court--The Tabernacle--The Brazen Altar--The Laver-- The Table--The Lampstand--The Golden Altar--The Mercy Seat and Ark--The Gate--The First Veil--The Second Veil--The Significance of These and Their Antitypes.

http://www.bible.ca/pre-destruction70AD-george-holford-1805AD.htm

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover; and it is deserving of the very particular attention of the reader, that this was the anniversary of that memorable period in which the Jews crucified their Messiah!.......................

The Temple now presented little more than a heap of ruins; and the Roman army as in triumph on the event, came and reared their ensigns against a fragment of the eastern gate, and, with sacrifices of thanksgiving, proclaimed the imperial majesty of Titus, with every possible demonstration of joy.................

Thank you for pointing this out, it's a bit ahead of where I'm at. Whether it's a whole temple or whether it's a sanctuary, I'm still trying to work out how does one get an accurate measurement of something, anything, that is not a physical substance. If it were, then I could use a measuring tape and know the dimensions of the structure, but something in heaven is beyond the firmament. The best I can think of is if there might be some way to indicate the amount of impact that the spirit has on the material world, so I'm hoping that people with experience in the charismatic movement might come along and help me decipher these things some day. Seems they're real go-getters in that, when it rains it pours, so to speak. I tried looking at Kabbalah, which is very logical, but I don't see how that can work without Messiah because of the rod of iron. All I can say so far is that everything in the Revelation is literally true, and it's happening in the present like the omnipresence of God, so more perfect translations of it doesn't make it any less true.
 
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Tangible

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That is interesting. I am unfamiliar with Tengwar, but I know that is a fiction, meant for entertainment. There will always be the profane who assume this is fantasy. I use a design that resembles letters of the alphabet because that is more comfortable, but this has much more in common with the periodic table of elements, hence the discussion of iron.
Well, Tengwar was created to be a part of a fictional world, but as a writing system it works just as well as any alphabet. There are even computer fonts for it.

Didn't know if you were aware of it, but there is a whole genre of hobbyists out there interested in constructed languages and writing systems. Some of them hang out on line at http://www.incatena.org They would probably get a kick out of your writing system and a presentation of how it works. One caveat: they are mostly non-Christian.
 
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Vollbracht

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That is interesting. I am unfamiliar with Tengwar, but I know that is a fiction, meant for entertainment. There will always be the profane who assume this is fantasy. I use a design that resembles letters of the alphabet because that is more comfortable, but this has much more in common with the periodic table of elements, hence the discussion of iron.

Call me profane, but Gnostic alchemy is a vain pursuit.
 
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