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The Results Are In: Conservative States Prosper, While Liberal States Decline

Discussion in 'American Politics' started by Rion, May 3, 2012.

  1. Rion

    Rion Love the puppy; obey the puppy

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  2. Grizzly

    Grizzly Enemy of Christmas Supporter

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    Oh lord.

    There's a really tricky word used in the article. It's the word "growth". So instead of looking at actual GDP per capita, it looks at change.

    so what does the ACTUAL GDP per capita look like across the 50 states?

    List of U.S. states by GDP - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Make sure you sort by GDP per capita.

    Then just take a look at the top 10 states and the bottom 10 states. Then assign a red or blue color to them.
     
  3. Rion

    Rion Love the puppy; obey the puppy

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    Yes, yes, and the whole moving thing, totally a non-issue, right?
     
  4. NightHawkeye

    NightHawkeye Work-in-progress Supporter

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    Hmm ... me wonders about GDP now.

    District of Columbia GDP = $174,500 per person

    The next highest is Delaware GDP = $69,667 per person


    One logical conclusion one might reach is that the entire country needs to emulate whatever it is that is happening in Washington, D.C.

    Another would be that GDP doesn't necessarily mean what it appears to. :doh:
     
  5. kermit

    kermit Legend

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    Most red states have their state budgets heavily subsidized by money coming from blue states. The appearance of gain or decline is really just a redistribution of weath. Funny that the right applauds redistribution when it makes their policies appear valid. Of course, the reality is that their policies work fine as long as someone else can foot the bill.
     
    Archaeopteryx likes this.
  6. Grizzly

    Grizzly Enemy of Christmas Supporter

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    Oooh. Check out this list of the most and least tax friendly states!

    Tax Friendly States

    Check out the least tax friendly states in the union (I've listed the 10 least friendly states in order). In parens, I have put their state GDP ranking per capita).

    1) New Jersey (8th)
    2) New York (7th)
    3) Connecticut (4th)
    4) Maryland (13th)
    5) Hawaii (18th)
    6) California (12th)
    7) Ohio (33rd)
    8) Vermont (30th)
    9) Wisconsin (29th)
    10) Rhode Island (26th)

    I mean check this out. These the the top 10 WORST states for tax friendliness. Yet none of them are at the bottom - in fact most of them are above average in GDP.
     
  7. Grizzly

    Grizzly Enemy of Christmas Supporter

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    It's misleading.
     
  8. Grizzly

    Grizzly Enemy of Christmas Supporter

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    So true

    Federal Tax Dollars Per State [infographic]
     
  9. Grizzly

    Grizzly Enemy of Christmas Supporter

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    Or maybe there is a third option? Maybe DC because its so small and not actually a state, that its GDP estimate means something different?

    Don't through out the baby with the bathwater, NHE. If GDP doesn't mean what it appears to, then most of the argument from the OP is null and void.
     
  10. acropolis

    acropolis so rad

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    Federal subsidies might be helping a bit with those growth figures:

    [​IMG]
    And since the above data is 7 yrs old, here's a more recent bit showing the trend continuing: http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2012/02/14/how_blue_america_subsidizes_red_america.html

    edit: For the record I have no issue with wealthy states subsidizing less-wealthy states, since they are all part of the same system and deserve support even if their contributions to society don't earn as much cash. This policy does go against conservative economic principles, however.
     
  11. Grizzly

    Grizzly Enemy of Christmas Supporter

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    So. Red states get more in federal tax dollars than they give to the Feds. It's total wealth redistribution. I wonder why they aren't complaining about it?
     
  12. acropolis

    acropolis so rad

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    Probably because they mostly aren't aware of it. I imagine they would still go after that redistribution on principle even if it undermined their own local economies since they oppose many other things that could/do help them.
     
  13. kermit

    kermit Legend

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    I have no doubt the people in government in those states are well aware. I also have no doubt that their fiscal policies are built around an outside influx of money. To be completely fair it's not actual cash coming in, but rather federal money (funded by blue states) paying for all or part of state or local programs/agencies meaning that the full funding doesn't need to come from the state or local budget.

    As I wrote this I was reminded or Scott Walker's shell game to "lower" the state budget. He did lower it, by forcing costs that were state costs onto local governments.
     
  14. acropolis

    acropolis so rad

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    Yes the folks in state government certainly know it, but their constituents probably don't. I don't think it's common knowledge for any group outside of government.
     
  15. MattRose

    MattRose Guest

    You need to look at things with a more discerning eye. Just because it's shiny you shouldn't pick it up. Most often you'll just cut yourself on a broken piece of glass like in this instance. Please let us know when you find the magic article that shows how much better conservatives are than those evil liberals. This article was a real let-down.

    Hey, you're not really a liberal trying to make conservatives look bad are you? Sneaky sneaky.
     
  16. citizenthom

    citizenthom I'm not sayin'. I'm just sayin'.

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    Raw GDP and raw GDP per capita don't. What matters is how far that money goes. Look at comparative cost of living in those high-GDP states and you find that in general, the working class is able to live within its means much more easily in those low-tax, high-growth states.
     
  17. NightHawkeye

    NightHawkeye Work-in-progress Supporter

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    Kinda the direction I was leaning, Grizzly.

    If GDP is simply measuring money changing hands, which appears to be the case, then it's not a real good measure.

    My previous understanding was that it measured goods and services ... however, it's hard to see that services in Washington, D.C. are much more than money changing hands. We know with certainty there is plenty of that there. :doh:
     
  18. Daniel25

    Daniel25 New Member

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    i'd say

    1) First we ought to compare adjusted per capita income rather than just gdp per capita. 49k in Iowa is a very different cat than 57k in new york, which is different from 65k in Alaska. Although I wouldn't describe either Alaska or Iowa as "conservative"; Iowas politics are pretty populist and Alaskan politics are just plain strange compared to the bottom 48.

    2) Second I think a more interesting figure, rather than the average is the average of the bottom 30%; having a large underclass leads to an unbalanced, unsustainable and unhealthy society imo.

    3) As for wealth transfers to the heartland from northeast via pork, you aren't seeing the whole story from just looking at spending outlays. When the government locates all of its banks and financial industries in coastal and intermodal port cities, and the federal government runs a peremenent deficit, the surplus cash (if the government is spening 40k gazillion dollars and only taxing 10k gazillion dollars, its still pulling goods even if in accounting world they are "borrowing") doesn't hit all the states at the same time or in the same places. It hits the financial/blue states first, and is just a permicious wealth transfer as direct pork.
     
  19. Vylo

    Vylo Stick with the King!

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    That's because states like mine (NJ) are subsidizing their growth. In general, it wouldn't be good for some states to drag too far behind.
     
  20. Veritas

    Veritas 1 Lord, 1 Faith, 1 Baptism

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    The GDP in DC is a result of a concentration of overpaid gov workers. DC also has the lowest unemployment in the Union.

    So does this mean that you support Red States being the beneficiary of Blue States?

    Wow! You mean the most liberal, highest taxed states give more than conservative, lower taxed states? Pure rocket science!
     
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