The Remnant Has Returned

[Time Watcher]

I will answer any reasonable question

I think that there is a mixing just above with questions and people

If any of you have individual questions I will respond , but one at a time please

I don't like confusion and prefer simplicity when discussing the prophetic scriptures with anyone

 

[Aijalon]

How many years has it been that people have been saying "Watch the Middle East"?

And how many years have you been ignoring it?

 

[Aijalon]

When did the remnant ever leave?

When do you date the start of the 70 years?
1) 1944 Bretton Woods agreements
2) 1945 Bretton Woods enacted
3) 1947 UN Charter for Israel Mandate
4) 1948 Israel-Arab war

 

[interpreter]

The remnant of 144,000 single male Jews were sealed from the great tribulation of WW II, and returned to the Holy Land. That's how many young men of fighting age were available to the the new Israeli army in 1948. 100,000 joined the army, while 44,000 were conscientious objectors, i.e., Ultra-Orthodox Jews.

 

[Time Watcher]

"The remnant of 144,000 single male Jews were sealed from the great tribulation of WW II, and returned to the Holy Land. That's how many young men of fighting age were available to the the new Israeli army in 1948. 100,000 joined the army, while 44,000 were concientous objectors, i.e., Orthodox Jews."


Is this just a joke?

If not what is your source of information?

 

[John S]

The remnant of 144,000 single male Jews were sealed from the great tribulation of WW II, and returned to the Holy Land. That's how many young men of fighting age were available to the the new Israeli army in 1948. 100,000 joined the army, while 44,000 were concientous objectors, i.e., Orthodox Jews.

This is ridiculous.

 

[Aijalon]

Did they have harps? Were they confirmed virgins?

LOL.

aaaaanyway.


To go a little deeper, the end of 70 years prophecy of Jeremiah coincided with the end of the first 7 weeks (49 years) of the 70 weeks prophecy of Daniel.

The start of those 49 years was the first destruction of the temple in 585 BC and the end was Cyrus' proclamation in 536 BC, and the 50 yr Jubilee was completed when the exiles reconsecrated the temple mount.

The final completion of the city in 434 BC during the 32nd year of Artaxerxes was the time when the 62 weeks begain, and they ended with the coming of Jesus the Messiah as a newborn child to Jerusalem for circumcision. This began another 70 years, and resulted in the destruction of Jerusaelm again in 70 AD (after 3.5 years siege)

If the current incarnation of Jerusalem from 1947 or 1948 to present day is yet one more 70 year incarnation of the destruction of Jerusalem, what do we make of the 1967 war to retake the Holy City?

If this is a mirror of what occured in Jeremiah's prophecy, then 21 years before this was the key to the date when Israel was captured and put into the service of Babylon. So that would be roughly 1946.

United States pressure to end the anti-immigration policy led to the establishment of the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry. In April 1946, the committee reached a unanimous decision. The Committee approved the American condition of the immediate acceptance of 100,000 Jewish refugees from Europe into Palestine. It also recommended that there be no Arab, and no Jewish State. US President Harry S. Truman angered the British government by issuing, without forewarning, a statement supporting the 100,000 refugees,
United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Interplanner]

TW wrote:
the Lord's focus has always been upon the Middle East

Not a chance, brother. "The distant shores and the islands will see your light." The Bible is structured A-B-A in which it begins with a global story, reduces to Israel and returns to the global. That's why Acts 2's "every nation under the sun" kicks off the resumption of the "A" theme just as Babel stands at the beginning of the "B".

You got a thick pile of homework to do!

 

[precepts]

The tribes of Dan and Ephraim aren't listed among the 144,000 in Rev 7, but interestingly enough, Joseph and Levi are.

 

[Time Watcher]

The tribal listings are different, but for good reason

I can explain this truth if you like .... however, you and I have a very different different perspective regarding the prophetic scriptures ..... so I doubt that you will see it

So unless you can convince me otherwise that you are really interested I see no purpose at this time

I do not like the current level of argumentation and wrangling that goes on at this forum and will qualify any situations before getting in volved

I have read most of your postings and can see that any conversation would most likely futile at this time

 

[Interplanner]

Precepts,
I like your sheep photo. I recently bought one as a mower of my huge back yard.

I followed your questions until I got to the Q: "Isn't it because there's none..." None what?

Are you familiar with the theology historian Latourrette? I think his 3 part history has been out since the 60s. In the early stages, he has a quote on Mt 24 which has been reprinted here as a thread, and he says that the NT itself reflects the adjustment to the fact that the end of the world did not happen 'immediately after' the trauma of 1st century Judea as expected. Jesus had always allowed for the 2nd coming to be distant--to be the Father's final decision--but they really thought it was to be soon.

If we don't (re-)calculate that into reading Paul, then, yes, you will think there are no universal doctrines.

My 2nd comment is: almost no one here seems to realize the role of Acts 13's sermon. It is a sample sermon, in a synagogue, outside Judea, without any duress (like being thought of as gods Acts 14, or filling in the blank god of the Athenian philosophers Acts 17). It makes quite clear that the resurrection of Christ is the fulfillment of the promises to the fathers, that the purposes of the previous promises are done, and that this fulfillment of promises is so that the nations can receive the message of justification from their sins. He even quotes Isaiah saying that David's promises (writing way after the life of David) were transfered to Christ, and are the resurrection and its benefits to the nations.

Most people here don't realize what this is saying; some people here don't even realize this is in their NTs--a sample sermon of what Paul would teach. Acts as a theological development, and eschatology, make no sense without it.

 

[Interplanner]

BW wrote:
The current return to the land was necessary, for the end time prophetic scenario opens with an unbelieving and rebellious Judah in her ancient homeland. But this return was not prophesied in the scriptures even one time.

BW, this paragraph fell apart on me. How was such not prophesied? You just said it was.

 

[interpreter]

"The remnant of 144,000 single male Jews were sealed from the great tribulation of WW II, and returned to the Holy Land. That's how many young men of fighting age were available to the the new Israeli army in 1948. 100,000 joined the army, while 44,000 were concientous objectors, i.e., Orthodox Jews."


Is this just a joke?

If not what is your source of information?

No joke. It is a historical fact. And the fact that we are now experiencing the 7 last plagues (such as skin cancer, red tides and global warming) proves the previous chapters have already been fulfilled.

 

[Time Watcher]

"No joke. It is a historical fact. And the fact that we are now experiencing the 7 last plagues (such as skin cancer, red tides and global warming) proves the previous chapters have already been fulfilled."


But what is your source and evidence that the 144000 were who you say they were?

 

[precepts]

The tribal listings are different, but for good reason

I'll bet for unscripted reasons.

I can explain this truth if you like .... however, you and I have a very different different perspective regarding the prophetic scriptures ..... so I doubt that you will see it

I don't see why when facts are facts. This can only happen if one of us don't accept scriptural facts.

So unless you can convince me otherwise that you are really interested I see no purpose at this time

I do not like the current level of argumentation and wrangling that goes on at this forum and will qualify any situations before getting in volved

With all due respect, it sounds like a cap out. The facts outweighs all false doctrine? The only thing that would cause friction is illogical understanding.

I have read most of your postings and can see that any conversation would most likely futile at this time

If you've read what I've written and still think that way, then you're probably right. Besides that, I interpret the 144,000 to be the singers and players of instrument, sealed by David and Solomon when the temple was constructed, for the service of song (the Levites).

 

[precepts]

Precepts,
I like your sheep photo. I recently bought one as a mower of my huge back yard.

I followed your questions until I got to the Q: "Isn't it because there's none..." None what?

What questions?

Are you familiar with the theology historian Latourrette? I think his 3 part history has been out since the 60s. In the early stages, he has a quote on Mt 24 which has been reprinted here as a thread, and he says that the NT itself reflects the adjustment to the fact that the end of the world did not happen 'immediately after' the trauma of 1st century Judea as expected.

That's because he's thinking carnally. God's kingdom is not of this world. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God because it's spiritual.

Dan 7:7-27 and Mat 24 is connecting prophecy to Revelation. Dan 7:7, the 4th beast with the ten horns, is Rome. Dan 7:27 is showing the 11th horn being thrown into the lake of fire (the false prophet), and Mat 24 and Revelation is showing the 8th horn of this 4th beast (Rome) as the antichrist/the Beast/the "destroyer" of the temple, and the beginning of the birth pains prophecied in Mat 24. The tribulation is the reign of the Beast with his two sons (the Flavian Dynasty), plucked up the scriptural 11th Roman Emperor, and the secular institution of the "mark and worship" of the 8th Roman Emperor by Nerva, the 11th Roman Emperor. These men/kings/horns are Beast (Dan 7:17), the fallen angels; the Beast from the bottomless pit, and the 4 released Euphrates angels. The days are cut short when the scriptural 11th horn reigns for only two yrs (96 ad to 98 ad) when he, the Beast, and the kings of the earth attack the heavenly Shalem and temple which is Revelation 4-20. This is the spiritual interpretation of the message/parable Mat 24, anything else is carnal.

Jesus had always allowed for the 2nd coming to be distant--to be the Father's final decision--but they really thought it was to be soon.

Eze 12:22 Son of man, what is that proverb that ye have in the land of Israel, saying, The days are prolonged, and every vision faileth?
Eze 12:23 Tell them therefore, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will make this proverb to cease, and they shall no more use it as a proverb in Israel; but say unto them, The days are at hand, and the effect of every vision.
Eze 12:24 For there shall be no more any vain vision nor flattering divination within the house of Israel.
Eze 12:25 For I am the LORD: I will speak, and the word that I shall speak shall come to pass; it shall be no more prolonged: for in your days, O rebellious house, will I say the word, and will perform it, saith the Lord GOD.

There's no 2,000 yr old prophecy. Christ didn't rise from the dead to wait 2,000 yrs in limbo.

If we don't (re-)calculate that into reading Paul, then, yes, you will think there are no universal doctrines.

You're trying to create doctrine. You would incorporate that into doctrine because you can't interpret what's written. You don't understand the parable. You're making up an excuse for what you can't explain. That is not sound doctrine but guessing, unfactual and unscripted.

My 2nd comment is: almost no one here seems to realize the role of Acts 13's sermon. It is a sample sermon, in a synagogue, outside Judea, without any duress (like being thought of as gods Acts 14, or filling in the blank god of the Athenian philosophers Acts 17). It makes quite clear that the resurrection of Christ is the fulfillment of the promises to the fathers, that the purposes of the previous promises are done, and that this fulfillment of promises is so that the nations can receive the message of justification from their sins. He even quotes Isaiah saying that David's promises (writing way after the life of David) were transfered to Christ, and are the resurrection and its benefits to the nations.

Most people here don't realize what this is saying; some people here don't even realize this is in their NTs--a sample sermon of what Paul would teach. Acts as a theological development, and eschatology, make no sense without it.

I really don't see the significance. From my understanding, Paul's sermon was just the way the Israelites would speak. They would rehearse their history when speaking to and audience of Ewes. Moses and Stephen did it, etc..

 

[Time Watcher]

"With all due respect, it sounds like a cap out"


That is exactly what I though you would say

Do you think I can?

 

[precepts]

I know you can't, not with scriptures atleast.

 

[Time Watcher]

Well that is your opinion isn't

Can you prove that the Lord has no say with His personal choice regarding a rearrangement of the tribes in Revelation?

Do you know anything about the tribe of Dan and Manas'-ses and why the tribe of Dan was replaced by the same

Do you know anything about the tribes of Joseph and Ephraim and why the tribe of Ephraim became a part of the tribe of Joseph?

See if you can find out

Also let me tell you this, it really makes no difference

Do you not believe that the Bible is the inspired Word of God? and if you do, why would you use Revelation 7:1-8 to claim that the 144000 are not the children of Israel of the 12 tribes listed .... I really cannot see you logic

Are you saying that the inspired scriptures are flawed with error?

By the way .... what is a "cap" out?

 

[precepts]

Well that is your opinion isn't

Isn't that what you asked for?

Can you prove that the Lord has no say with His personal choice regarding a rearrangement of the tribes in Revelation?

It's scripturally unfound. God doesn't do things without explaining. He did defne the arrangement of the tribes when he first separated them, right? You don't rearrange them in the middle of Revelation without explaining, just my opinion.

Do you know anything about the tribe of Dan and Manas'-ses and why the tribe of Dan was replaced by the same

There's nothing scriptural, except for the Levites were never numbered among the twelve, muchless a tribe of Joseph.

Do you know anything about the tribes of Joseph and Ephraim and why the tribe of Ephraim became a part of the tribe of Joseph?

How can the tribe of Ephraim become part of the tribe of Joseph when Manassah and Ephraim were the sons of Joseph?

See if you can find out

Also let me tell you this, it really makes no difference

Your opinion, no doubt?

Do you not believe that the Bible is the inspired Word of God? and if you do, why would you use Revelation 7:1-8 to claim that the 144000 are not the children of Israel of the 12 tribes listed .... I really cannot see you logic

Anyone that calls themself a christian, and doesn't know the scriptures well enough to know they have contradictions, are baby christians, blind guides. I have read thru the entire book atleast 7 times to get my greater understanding of what's written.

To claim scripture is infallible is to ignored Rev 22:18-19's warning of adding or taking away from it.

Are you saying that the inspired scriptures are flawed with error?

That's a baby christian question, a blind guide question.

By the way .... what is a "cap" out?

A goat in leopard skin.