The Reason Why Job Suffered?

[VanillaSunflowers]

God wasn't in the whirlwind.

He spoke from out of the whirlwind. Job 38.

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

The new age is coming
And with it a strong delusion

I would submit it is already here.

 

[miknik5]

I would submit it is already here.

Yes

 

[Achilles6129]

In post 327 You quoted off me bouncing off another post of mine and said "he repented of something" I simply clarified "that something" is written, "being of the evil" he thought to do them and showed likewise if they turned from their evil as he said (in Jeremiah) as is demonstrated in Jona he would repent of it. But in 1 Ch 21:15 the one before it when he sent an angel in to destroy, it was David who sinned and ordered the numbering not them 1 Ch 21:17 David was given a choice of three things to choose from, you would have to read up to that place.

2 Ch 21:17 And David said unto God, Is it not I that commanded the people to be numbered? even I it is that have sinned and done evil indeed; but as for these sheep, what have they done? let thine hand, I pray thee, O LORD my God, be on me, and on my father's house; but not on thy people, that they should be plagued.

OK, so then why would God plague the Israelites in the first place if the reason he repented was because they hadn't sinned (if I'm understanding you correctly)?

 

[Achilles6129]

God never told Job why. The answer was not the answer but the answerer.

It's probable that the answer is God himself. Since God is outside of human nature human beings can never understand the answer unless it is revealed through divine revelation. That's what happened in the whirlwind. Simply put, words can never express the answer because the answer is a form of knowledge that can only be understood through divine revelation.

 

[Fireinfolding]

OK, so then why would God plague the Israelites in the first place if the reason he repented was because they hadn't sinned (if I'm understanding you correctly)?

Which verse arent you understanding?

 

[Achilles6129]

Which verse arent you understanding?

The reason God plagued the Israelites was because of David, right?

 

[Fireinfolding]

How about we try to answer the question of: If God allows something, is God guilty of it? Because it seems like that is the question people are asking concerning how God dealt with Job. Some folks think God can be guilty of evil for allowing evil.[a sin of omission?] I disagree with that idea. Perhaps we are just really limited in understanding God's nature. will stick with God being the unknowable known.

Amos 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?

How is this understood?

By the above I had this in mind

1Ch 21:15 And God sent an angel unto Jerusalem to destroy it: and as he was destroying, the LORD beheld, and he repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed, It is enough, stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD stood by the threshingfloor of Ornan the Jebusite.

God "sent to destroy"

What's also interesting about this passage is that God repented of something.

He repented of the evil he thought to do to them,

As He says in Jeremiah...

Jerm 18:7 At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it;

Jerm 18:8 If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them. (snip)

An example of the above is also found in Jonah

Jonah 3:4 And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown.

God spake by the prophets, and continues

Jonah 3:5 So the people of Nineveh believed God, and proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them even to the least of them.

Here it is

Jona 3:10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

Which shows again the same...

Jerm 18:8 If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them. (snip)

Then you are asking this about the people in 1Ch 21:15

Sure, but why did he repent of the evil that he thought to do to them? They didn't turn from their wickedness, as far as I am aware. So why was it?

Because on that account David says it was his fault

(snips the first part)

2 Ch 21:17 And David said unto God, Is it not I that commanded the people to be numbered? even I it is that have sinned and done evil indeed; but as for these sheep, what have they done? let thine hand, I pray thee, O LORD my God, be on me, and on my father's house; but not on thy people, that they should be plagued.

So from the start I am asking about the HAND that falls upon Job (off of ChristsSoldier115's post) and according "the bringing in" of the evil in the city, even as the blowing of the trumpet and the evil in it is according to the LORD having done it (even as Job says/ as one man accordingly, "receiving the evil and the good at his hand) even though he himself (or a nation for example) would be given into anothers hand (whether that be into another nations hand, or Satan's hand or the Angel's hand (whether it was either allowed or sent of God for whatever purpose) . So I am asking according to the evil in the city, whether something is done against a man or a nation how is this understood, (according to that post) but I am getting no answers myself but bombarded with your endless questions that seem to grow everytime I point out a confirmation to you, whether in a word or verses in accord.

And so after that post,

OK, so then why would God plague the Israelites in the first place if the reason he repented was because they hadn't sinned (if I'm understanding you correctly)?

From that "if" forward made no sense because David himself said he sinned there and I dont get your reason in that context there.

The reason God plagued the Israelites was because of David, right?

We are shown that David sure thought that, as I posted what he said here

2 Ch 21:17 And David said unto God, Is it not I that commanded the people to be numbered? even I it is that have sinned and done evil indeed; but as for these sheep, what have they done? let thine hand, I pray thee, O LORD my God, be on me, and on my father's house; but not on thy people, that they should be plagued.

 

[Achilles6129]

Hi,

You say that God repented of the evil that he thought to do to Jerusalem because David said it was his fault. But God already knew it was David's fault, so then why did God plague Jerusalem? He plagued them for some reason, and then repented. Why?

Remember that we're dealing with an omnipotent omniscient being here.

 

[Open Heart]

Hi,

You say that God repented of the evil that he thought to do to Jerusalem because David said it was his fault. But God already knew it was David's fault, so then why did God plague Jerusalem? He plagued them for some reason, and then repented. Why?

Remember that we're dealing with an omnipotent omniscient being here.

God often punishes or rewards Israel as a nation. We Jews function as a group, a people. When Achan disobeyed God's instructions and looted gold and hid it under the floor in his tent, God did not say "Achan sinned." God said, "Israel sinned," and God punished all the children of Israel.

 

[Achilles6129]

God often punishes or rewards Israel as a nation. We Jews function as a group, a people. When Achan disobeyed God's instructions and looted gold and hid it under the floor in his tent, God did not say "Achan sinned." God said, "Israel sinned," and God punished all the children of Israel.

OK, so why does God punish collectively instead of individually?

 

[miknik5]

God often punishes or rewards Israel as a nation. We Jews function as a group, a people. When Achan disobeyed God's instructions and looted gold and hid it under the floor in his tent, God did not say "Achan sinned." God said, "Israel sinned," and God punished all the children of Israel.

Open heart. That was how achan's sin was disclosed.
Joshua, who had been victorious in all his battles sent men to fight a small group and he didn't even send his whole army because he was so used to defeating all the battles. But this time he didn't win and asked GOD why


That was when GOD told him there was disobedience in Joshua's camp and GOD said HE would not be with Josnua until Joshua removed it

GOD did not hold the whole house of Israel responsible although it was clear that Josjua's whole army felt the effects of Achan's sin, HE held achan's house responsible

 

[Open Heart]

OK, so why does God punish collectively instead of individually?

So that we as Jews will take care for each other, be responsible for one another. When we see another Jew slipping into sin, we will approach him and try to bring him back onto God's Way, the way a family cares for one another. It's like when a Chabadnick in Israel stands on the street corner in Israel and says to Jews passing by, "Have you laid Teffilin today?" (Have you prayed today.) He then listens compassionately to whatever they have to say, even if it is bitter words about God. Then he gently asks, "So, would you like to lay Teffilin now?"

 

[Achilles6129]

Then why not just punish the Jew who knew about the sin but did nothing?

 

[Open Heart]

GOD did not hold the whole house of Israel responsible although it was clear that Josjua's whole army felt the effects of Achan's sin, HE held achan's house responsible

God delivered all of Israel into the hands of Ai. Not just Achan's family. When Joshua fell down and asked why, this is what God said:
10 And the Lord said unto Joshua, Get thee up; wherefore liest thou thus upon thy face?
11 Israel hath sinned, and they have also transgressed my covenant which I commanded them: for they have even taken of the accursed thing, and have also stolen, and dissembled also, and they have put it even among their own stuff.

 

[Open Heart]

Then why not just punish the Jew who knew about the sin but did nothing?

What Jew was that?

 

[Achilles6129]

What Jew was that?

The one in your example.

 

[miknik5]

I agree. However. Joshua had just witnessed the Battle of Jericho so when he went up to Ai he expected to win and did not know this hidden sin until taking his men into battle and being defeated. Which is why he cried out to GOD and was told there was one who was unclean/accursed in the camp

 

[miknik5]

Dup post

 

[miknik5]

Dup post