The Real meaning of the Wedding at Cana

[Nazaroo]

Much of your analysis is quite compelling, Nazaroo, and there is a lot there to recommend it. My own study of John 3 has yielded only slightly different results.
Given that John begins his Gospel with the words, "In the beginning..." it would appear that right off the start he is essentially saying to his readers, "As you read this, be thinking of Genesis 1." John's Gospel then begins to demarcate each short pericope with the words, "the next day" (Te epaurion) -- the only Gospel to do this -- which to my mind strongly indicates that this opening chapter constitutes John's 'creation week', which culminates with the Wedding Feast at Cana. Hence, I very much agree with Hairy Tic that this prefigures the Wedding Feast of the Lamb, or the great Messianic banquet.
I also agree with you that Jesus' miracle of turning copious amounts of water into wine -- and to essentially keep the party going -- was to show that the Messiah is more than capable of providing for his people (as was the job of any good king), but that this act in particular also possessed the added significance of being reminiscent of Moses' first miracle. I think this important since Jesus was also supposed to be the fulfillment of Moses' prophecy that God would eventually raise up from among his people a prophet like himself (Dt. 18.15; cf. Acts 3.22). As I'm sure you recall, Moses' first miracle -- and thus the beginning of his public ministry -- was turning the Nile into blood, and so here in John's Gospel, Jesus' first miracle -- and thus the beginning of his public ministry -- was to turn all that water into wine.

Excellent insights:
I wish I had noticed the Genesis connection and the Moses turning water into blood.

peace
Nazaroo

 

[Woldeyesus]

Only the following reservation, viz.: the passage does not at all show that Jesus turned "copious amounts of water into wine" not all 6 x 100 litres of it anyway (John 2: 1-12)!

 

[Studious One]

When did the "govenor of the feast" (the only person mentioned in John 2:9-10 to have tasted Jesus' miracle wine) become "everyone"? There's no indication in those verses that anyone other than the servants even saw, let alone tasted, that "wine".

Perhaps "the servants which drew the water knew" more than the writer of GoJ and those who canonized that Gospel wanted us to know

The words of Mary prove that the wine Jesus made was not for the governor of the feast alone. Her words?

"THEY have no wine."

Mary did not say, "He has no wine." 'They' indicates it was more than just the governor, even though we only read of the governor drinking of the wine.

Who were the 'they' that Mary was speaking of? 'They' indicates every person at the wedding feast... the whole group.

 

[Studious One]

As to the amount of water that was made wine, I believe every bit of it was turned to wine, not in the jars themselves, but rather in the vessels that were used to draw out of the jars.

Jesus told them to FILL the jars, then He told them to DRAW OUT. I believe all was drawn out... all was needed, else Jesus would not have had all six jars filled.

The reason I do not believe the water was made wine while still in the jars is because the servants were told to DRAW OUT and then we see that the servants that DREW the water knew. They drew water out of those jars of stone, not wine. The water was made wine upon being drawn out of the the jars.

 

[Nazaroo]

As to the amount of water that was made wine, I believe every bit of it was turned to wine, not in the jars themselves, but rather in the vessels that were used to draw out of the jars.

Jesus told them to FILL the jars, then He told them to DRAW OUT. I believe all was drawn out... all was needed, else Jesus would not have had all six jars filled.

The reason I do not believe the water was made wine while still in the jars is because the servants were told to DRAW OUT and then we see that the servants that DREW the water knew. They drew water out of those jars of stone, not wine. The water was made wine upon being drawn out of the the jars.

Interesting distinction.
It seems possible that the miracle occurred during the drawing.
If so, they must have seen it after it had changed to wine also,
because it says "the servants knew", i.e., it was no longer water,
and whether or not they had tasted it themselves,
they must have been tipped off that the miracle had already occurred.

 

[Studious One]

Interesting distinction.
It seems possible that the miracle occurred during the drawing.
If so, they must have seen it after it had changed to wine also,
because it says "the servants knew", i.e., it was no longer water,
and whether or not they had tasted it themselves,
they must have been tipped off that the miracle had already occurred.

The "tip off" may have been a sudden coloration of the liquid they had drawn out of the jars. It may have also been by a sudden odor of that of grape juice wine.

 

[Ronald]

Interesting distinction.
It seems possible that the miracle occurred during the drawing.
If so, they must have seen it after it had changed to wine also,
because it says "the servants knew", i.e., it was no longer water,
and whether or not they had tasted it themselves,
they must have been tipped off that the miracle had already occurred.

It was Jesus FIRST MIRACLE, an introduction to who He is and a demonstration of His power to the disciples. He was more than a prophet.
John the Baptist introduced Him as the Lamb who takes away the sins of the world but the disciples did not really know what they were about to experience beginning with this miracle.

The Bible doesn't say don't drink, it says don't get drunk. We don't know if people were getting drunk at this wedding. There's usually some at weddings but you have to remember, these are Jews who try to be obedient and keep the law so it's likely that these godly folks would have a higher level of self control then say the ungodly gentiles at their weddings. Everyone knew everyone in small towns and for all we know, there could have been a thousand guests at the wedding for whom 100 or 200 gallons would not intoxicate.

 

[Studious One]

It was Jesus FIRST MIRACLE, an introduction to who He is and a demonstration of His power to the disciples. He was more than a prophet.
John the Baptist introduced Him as the Lamb who takes away the sins of the world but the disciples did not really know what they were about to experience beginning with this miracle.

The Bible doesn't say don't drink, it says don't get drunk. We don't know if people were getting drunk at this wedding. There's usually some at weddings but you have to remember, these are Jews who try to be obedient and keep the law so it's likely that these godly folks would have a higher level of self control then say the ungodly gentiles at their weddings. Everyone knew everyone in small towns and for all we know, there could have been a thousand guests at the wedding for whom 100 or 200 gallons would not intoxicate.

Could have, should have, would have...

Where is the command by Jesus that guests were not to drink enough to get drunk? The guests had already 'well drunk," meaning they were already well on their way to drunkenness. (if indeed the wine the guests had consumed already were alcoholic) Had the wine Jesus provided been alcoholic in content, He would have been adding to their road to a drunken state.

I'm sorry, but I don't see how providing alcohol to a crowd who had already well drunk is manifesting God's glory.

 

[Nazaroo]

Could have, should have, would have...

Where is the command by Jesus that guests were not to drink enough to get drunk? The guests had already 'well drunk," meaning they were already well on their way to drunkenness. (if indeed the wine the guests had consumed already were alcoholic) Had the wine Jesus provided been alcoholic in content, He would have been adding to their road to a drunken state.

I'm sorry, but I don't see how providing alcohol to a crowd who had already well drunk is manifesting God's glory.

I agree with you:
If the beverages were alcoholic, then "well drunk" has a certain connotation that is hardly avoidable, and providing another 100 gallons of booze to a bunch of drunks or even borderline drunks is a foolish thing.

It seems that either the "oinos" (not 'wine' in the modern sense) was not alcoholic or else the miraculous "oinos" of Jesus was not alcoholic, or both.

But as you say, where is the "glory"?

The answer is not in taking the story so literally that we miss the spiritual message and point.
Its not given for the purpose of instructing Christians 2000 years later on rules for drinking alcoholic beverages.
If that were its purpose, that purpose would have hopelessly failed.

The purpose of the miracle and story must be entirely different.

 

[Studious One]

John 2:11 This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.

I honestly don't see how anyone can believe making alcohol is manifesting Jesus' glory when alcohol is responsible for so many broken homes, so many abused children and spouses, so many deaths on the highway.

 

[Ronald]

Where is the command by Jesus that guests were not to drink enough to get drunk?
I'm sorry, but I don't see how providing alcohol to a crowd who had already well drunk is manifesting God's glory.

"A feast is made for laughter and wine maketh merry..." Ecc. 10:19
The little wine at every table was common mentioned throughout the Bible. A feast wasn't a feast without it. It's good for the stomach and the heart as well, but not too much.

"For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty... "Prov.23:21
"Who has woe? Who has sorrow? Who has contentions? Who has babbling? Who has wounds without cause? Who has redness of eyes? They that tarry at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine. Prov.23:29,30

Jesus is God, so how can you say that anything He did was not manifesting God's glory. He didn't glorify Himself, but He was demonstrating the power of God miraculously.

Be careful not to assume that Jesus contributed to drunkeness ... or criticize His miracle at Cana, that's in effect judging the One who will judge all!

 

[Studious One]

"A feast is made for laughter and wine maketh merry..." Ecc. 10:19
The little wine at every table was common mentioned throughout the Bible. A feast wasn't a feast without it. It's good for the stomach and the heart as well, but not too much.

"For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty... "Prov.23:21
"Who has woe? Who has sorrow? Who has contentions? Who has babbling? Who has wounds without cause? Who has redness of eyes? They that tarry at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine. Prov.23:29,30

Jesus is God, so how can you say that anything He did was not manifesting God's glory. He didn't glorify Himself, but He was demonstrating the power of God miraculously.

Be careful not to assume that Jesus contributed to drunkeness ... or criticize His miracle at Cana, that's in effect judging the One who will judge all!

I don't criticize Jesus at all. The fact is those at the wedding feast drank the supply of wine that was provided by the governor of the feast. Jewish history will reveal that for a bridegroom not to provide enough for his guests was a disgrace. The guests had drank the supply and wanted more.
Jesus provided more wine through His first miracle. Now, if they had already drank well as the Bible states they did, and Jesus gave them more, if the wine was alcoholic Jesus helped them further down the road to drunkenness.

Jesus making an alcoholic beverage and giving it to man would not manifest God's glory no matter how many times you insist it would.

Jesus came to seek and save that which was lost, not to poison their bodies with toxins.

 

[Ronald]

I don't criticize Jesus at all. The fact is those at the wedding feast drank the supply of wine that was provided by the governor of the feast. Jewish history will reveal that for a bridegroom not to provide enough for his guests was a disgrace. The guests had drank the supply and wanted more.
Jesus provided more wine through His first miracle. Now, if they had already drank well as the Bible states they did, and Jesus gave them more, if the wine was alcoholic Jesus helped them further down the road to drunkenness.

Jesus making an alcoholic beverage and giving it to man would not manifest God's glory no matter how many times you insist it would.

Jesus came to seek and save that which was lost, not to poison their bodies with toxins.

You say you don't criticize Jesus but what is this: "Jesus helped them further down the road to drunkeness."???
Did not God prepare beforehand this miracle and therefore set the stage and orchestrate what was occurring on that day for His glory?
This is a question that a non-believer would ask, one that is not saved yet. If so, I understand. God knows what He is doing and you are in a sense stating that act was wrong and a disgrace. ???

ARE YOU A BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN? It seems that you do not have basic spiritual insight and discernment of scripture. I take it you have many other doubts. That's OK too. Keep studying, God will answer those too. But don't be adament about your opinions especially concerning what GOD ordains to come to pass.

This is basic stuff. Everything that Jesus did was good!

 

[Studious One]

You say you don't criticize Jesus but what is this: "Jesus helped them further down the road to drunkeness."???
Did not God prepare beforehand this miracle and therefore set the stage and orchestrate what was occurring on that day for His glory?
This is a question that a non-believer would ask, one that is not saved yet. If so, I understand. God knows what He is doing and you are in a sense stating that act was wrong and a disgrace. ???

ARE YOU A BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN? It seems that you do not have basic spiritual insight and discernment of scripture. I take it you have many other doubts. That's OK too. Keep studying, God will answer those too. But don't be adament about your opinions especially concerning what GOD ordains to come to pass.

This is basic stuff. Everything that Jesus did was good!

God did prepare beforehand the miracle. Problem is, in a feeble attempt to justify drinking that which God expressly forbids, man tries to miraculously turn the nonfernented wine that Jesus made into a fermented wine. Habakkuk pronounces a woe upon those who put alcoholic beverage to another man's lips. Had Jesus created an alcoholic wine, He would have been inviting a woe upon Himself. disqualifying Him from being the sinless, spotless Lamb of God.

Everything that Jesus did was good, but many want to slander Jesus character by identifying Him with the world and worldly pleasures.

God has already answered any questions i had concerning alcohol in His Word. He states,

Proverbs 23:31 Proverbs 23:31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.

Notice it does not say, 'Look not thou upon the wine after you have drank a glass or two.' Nor does it say 'Look not thou upon the wine when you begin to feel lightheaded." No, it says "Look not thou upon the wine "WHEN IT..."

When the wine is fermented, we are not to look upon it. The Hebrew word for "Look not" is the word "ra'ah". It carries with it the meaning, do not experience it, do not approve of, do not consider, do not enjoy, do not be near, do not perceive, do not present, do not provide, do not have respect for, etc.

In other words, do not approve of fermented wine, do not be near fermented wine, do not consider fermented wine, do not enjoy fermented wine, do not experience fermented wine, do not perceive fermented wine , do not present fermented wine to others, do not provide fermented wine to others, do not have respect for fermented wine.

Those who present fermented wine to others invite upon themselves woe as declared in Habakkuk 2:15.

My Jesus did not give an alcoholic beverage to man, He came to seek and save that which was lost, not give them license to sin.

 

[plmarquette]

or it is literally what it say....

poor couple didn't buy enough food or drink for their guests, Mary asked Jesus to help, as he did with feeding 3000...so that the couple / family would not be humiliated ...at the wedding feast [which lasted for several days to a week]...what is literally written, if you ever drank beer / wine... once you have a buzz going, can't tell if it is buckhorn, oldstyle or guiness ...micalobe...chivas regal or old crow...

 

[ghendricks63]

Jesus making an alcoholic beverage and giving it to man would not manifest God's glory no matter how many times you insist it would.

Jesus came to seek and save that which was lost, not to poison their bodies with toxins.

These statements are contrary both to clear scripural revelation and to medical science. You obviously have a strong personal bias...but I do not believe it is grounded in either science or God. It is nothing but personal opinion and as such is only authoritative for YOU.

BTW - If consuming alcohol is sinful...why was it suggested in one the the OT tithes? (Look it up)

 

[Ronald]

God did prepare beforehand the miracle. Problem is, in a feeble attempt to justify drinking that which God expressly forbids

You got that wrong. Drinking is aloud especially oh let's see, THE LAST SUPPER. We drink the wine which symbolizes HS BLOOD. Nevertheless, wine is aloud with self control. But of course, if you don't have self control, please don't.

Habakkuk pronounces a woe upon those who put alcoholic beverage to another man's lips

Hab 2:5 is what you are referring to. Read the previous verse!!! You are taking this out of context which many do. It states: His soul is not upright, he is proud and he does not live by faith. This is abviously referring to an unbeliever who sins by drinking too much.

Had Jesus created an alcoholic wine, He would have been inviting a woe upon Himself. disqualifying Him from being the sinless, spotless Lamb of God.

Leaning on your own understanding, misinterpretations and lack of discernment.

Everything that Jesus did was good, but many want to slander Jesus character by identifying Him with the world and worldly pleasures.

Well, yes but aren't you implying that He contributed to drunkeness?

When the wine is fermented, we are not to look upon it.

You don't have to look upon it, but judge not lest you be judged.

Hab. 2:15 is also talking about those who get their neighbors "drunk" so as to look upon their nakedness. Yes woe to them.

What church do you attend? One that constantly points their holy finger at sin. A small one maybe that doesn't grow because they are too judgmental, focusing on sin too much and not grace, love and forgivenness.???

 

[Studious One]

You got that wrong. Drinking is aloud especially oh let's see, THE LAST SUPPER. We drink the wine which symbolizes HS BLOOD. Nevertheless, wine is aloud with self control. But of course, if you don't have self control, please don't.

Nice try, but your theory doesn't fly. Scripture reveals they drank the fruit of vine.. not alcohol. Alcohol deceives and mocks (Prov 20:1). Jesus would not give man that which deceives and mocks and say "Drink ye all of it." That which deceives and mocks does not represent the pure blood of Christ.. no matter how much you want it to.

Hab 2:5 is what you are referring to. Read the previous verse!!! You are taking this out of context which many do. It states: His soul is not upright, he is proud and he does not live by faith. This is abviously referring to an unbeliever who sins by drinking too much.

No, I was referring to Hab 2:15. Try again.

Leaning on your own understanding, misinterpretations and lack of discernment.

There is nothing wrong with my discernment whatsoever. It is not me that likens the blood of Christ to mockery and deceit.

Well, yes but aren't you implying that He contributed to drunkeness?

Not at all, I never said He made alcohol. I said IF He made alcohol. I know He didn't, so again, m not implying He added to man's drunkenness.

You don't have to look upon it, but judge not lest you be judged.

Jesus tells us to judge righteous judgement.. Paul tells us to judge as well.

Hab. 2:15 is also talking about those who get their neighbors "drunk" so as to look upon their nakedness. Yes woe to them.

Notice the word 'also' in that verse? It reveals that the woe isn't just for getting one drunk, but ALSO for putting the bottle to another's lips.

What church do you attend? One that constantly points their holy finger at sin. A small one maybe that doesn't grow because they are too judgmental, focusing on sin too much and not grace, love and forgivenness.???

I'd rather be in a small Church that believe's God's Holy Word, than to be a member of large church that twists God's Word into a lie.

 

[sheina]

Proverbs 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

James 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

James 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

James 1:16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.

 

[Studious One]

These statements are contrary both to clear scripural revelation and to medical science. You obviously have a strong personal bias...but I do not believe it is grounded in either science or God. It is nothing but personal opinion and as such is only authoritative for YOU.

BTW - If consuming alcohol is sinful...why was it suggested in one the the OT tithes? (Look it up)

Shekar (strong drink) does not necessarily mean fermented. For instance, whole milk is a stronger drink than 2% milk. Coffee is stronger than tea. Neither of these are alcoholic in content, but are strong drinks.

Actually, my statements line up perfectly with Scripture. Jesus did come to seek and save that which was lost.

When one drinks alcohol, one is poisoning his or her system with toxins. Alcohol is called an intoxicant for a reason.... because it is a toxin. It's very root word is the word 'toxic'.