The Purpose of the 10 Commandments (The Law of Moses)

RyanC111

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In the contention between right vs. wrong, good vs. evil, Truth vs. deceit

We, as people, search for the highest form of knowledge in able to discern even the most perplexing situations. Historically and within certain current circles, The 10 Commandments has been the cornerstone for all ethical/religious doctrine and ethical/religious practice. However, in the pursuit of righteousness and a better Hope, this teaching will be confronted here today. Scriptures will be used from the King James Bible as it is the bases of this viewpoint; I encourage you to read the chapters of the selected Scriptures. Also, I want to highlight the importance of the wording within Scripture and this forum. The 10 Commandments will be referred to as 'The Law'.

What does The 10 Commandments teach?
Romans 3:20- by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 7:7- I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

The function of the law is to teach us what wrong and evil is. Seemingly,this is a good thing, that we know the evil tochoose the good. But there is a problem..

Romans 7:8- But sin, taking occasion by the law, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. (lust)

Romans 7:10&11- and the law which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. For sin, taking occasion by the law, deceived me, and by it slew me.

1 Corinthians 15:56- the strength of sin is the law.

You read in the law not to covet, then you look outside your window and see your neighbor driving your dream car, even the color you want. The practice is not to covet. Now you're practicing not to want something that you want and the stronger the desire is to have it makes it all more difficult. A lot of times the line of morality between right and wrong isn't so cut and dry. What seems good could end up being destructive and vise versa.
The law gives knowledge of sin, it teaches us what evil is but doesn't show us what the good is to choose.


What is the purpose of the 10 Commandments?
Galations 3:24- the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

The depiction of the word schoolmaster is a overseer. Like how a nanny would be to a child, the nanny will oversee and discipline the child until the parents return. However, once the parents return there is no need for the nanny; in this case the schoolmaster.

Galations 3:25- But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Romans 10:4- Christ is the end of the law to all who believe.

Hebrews 10 says that Jesus Christ came into the world to do the will of GOD. John 3:16, For God so loved the world He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever shall believe in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life. In Jesus, we have the hope of the forgiveness and love of God. God is love and the Will of God is good. If we wish to know and choose good we must believe in the goodness of GOD in Jesus Christ.

Romans 8:3- For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh.

There is no good that can be done apart for Christ that would be acceptable unto God. This is the start of the conversation of we are no longer under the The Law of Moses but under a new Law of the Spirit Of Jesus Christ our Lord.

John 13:34- A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you

I encourage everyone reading this to meditate on this conversation. Discuss it with your small group. Lets talk about it here. You cannot have old wine in a new wine skin.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to His abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.
1 Peter 1:3
 

VanillaSunflowers

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I read the Law of God as meant to reiterate what God expects of us as moral righteous people when we're later told the greatest of his commands is that we love one another as we love him.

If we love him we put no other faith's god's first before him. We do not bow before idols, graven images, when our God is an eternal and Holy Spirit.

If we love the Father, Abba, we do not invoke his name and then disobey his commands. Act contrary to his words that are what inspire in us righteousness.

If we love Abba Father we spend time with him and take a rest from toiling in the world that we are to overcome with his grace and compassion and eternal strength.

When we love Abba Father we see what he told us about ourselves in our self and others. As we were made just a little lower than his Angels. I believe that is why we honor those he entrusted to parent us in this world. This is why we do not take the life He has given. We do not betray our spouse through adultery with another. We do not steal from others what they labored to acquire for themselves. We do not lie to our neighbor, to or about anyone. And we do not covet, set our thoughts on those things that are forbidden us.

God's laws were in the beginning. I don't think those faithful to Abba Father need to be told the list of the ten commands in order not to disobey them. It is as I read them a matter of honor and respect for God, ourself, and others to whom we bear witness of God in our behaviors here.

I think God ordered those commands recorded for all time so that others would know in a world where it is largely and especially today, taught that anything goes, that there are right behaviors. And if we love God we would be remiss in not showing how that translates to love for those he created from himself.

We are made just a little lower than the Angels. When I think of Angels I think that's pretty fascinating. :angel:

This is a great topic. I hope it garners more attention. Thanks for opening it. :)
 
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Open Heart

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God's laws were in the beginning.
Not all of them. There was nothing in the beginning about honoring the Sabbath. There was nothing in the beginning about incest. There was nothing in the beginning about avoiding marital sex during a woman's period. There was nothing in the beginning about avoiding pork. You get the idea.
 
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roamer_1

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Not all of them.

I would take exception to that. Does Yahweh change?
I would submit that since Yahweh says Torah is forever, that it existed all the way along.

That it was not enumerated is a function of the people : laws are written for criminals - To effect good behavior in a society by making bad behavior criminal. a law is not 'created' until there is a need for it. Is it not reasonable to say that people's hearts just 'knew' in times past more of Torah than we do now? Just as most of us know natively that murder, assault, rape, and etc. are bad?

Abraham kept the commandments - But his children, coming out of 400 years of slavery in Egypt did not, even needing them to be established as law.

There was nothing in the beginning about honoring the Sabbath.

No. The seventh day was sanctified in the Garden. Shabbat has been ordained from the beginning. If you care to investigate the matter, the major events prior to the giving of the law take place on Yahweh's Holy Days... There is MUCH evidence that *all* the Holy Days are 'from the beginning'.

There was nothing in the beginning about incest.

Yet there is little to say that incest was sanctioned either. In fact, in the story of Lot's daughters, incest is an offense... Long before Moses. The function remains. What is the purpose behind the law?

There was nothing in the beginning about avoiding marital sex during a woman's period.

Yet the function remains the same - what is the purpose behind the law?

There was nothing in the beginning about avoiding pork.

Yet that which is good and bad for us to eat remains the same. What is the purpose behind the law?
 
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VanillaSunflowers

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Not all of them. There was nothing in the beginning about honoring the Sabbath. There was nothing in the beginning about incest. There was nothing in the beginning about avoiding marital sex during a woman's period. There was nothing in the beginning about avoiding pork. You get the idea.

We're talking about the 10 commands. Sex during a woman's menses isn't part of that. Nor is incest.
The Sabbath was in the beginning when God rested on the 7th day. The ten commands preceded the rest of the Mitzvot which contain those commands you mention.
 
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Open Heart

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I would take exception to that. Does Yahweh change?
Human society changes -- Hunter and gathering peoples became agricultural towns and then cities for the first time. Animals were domesticated. Pastoral peoples developed. Written language evolved for the first time. Israel as a people did not always exist, and so the Mosaic covenant did not always exist. Are you trying to say that the law to separate linen and wool existed from Adam's time? That's ridiculous!

1. There is universal law, which effects all humanity (example, don't kill someone because they look at you funny) and this law has existed since the beginning of humankind. Sometimes this is called Natural Law.
2. Then there is Mosaic law, which effects just Israel (example, don't have sex with your menstruating wife) and this law has only existed since Mt. Sinai.
 
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Open Heart

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We're talking about the 10 commands. Sex during a woman's menses isn't part of that. Nor is incest.
The Sabbath was in the beginning when God rested on the 7th day. The ten commands preceded the rest of the Mitzvot which contain those commands you mention.
1. While I view the 10 as having a special place because the Children of Israel heard them from God's mouth before we freaked out and insisted that God speak through Moses, I see them as part of the overall Mosaic Law, part of the 613. I think that refraining from sodomy is just as important as refraining from perjury.

2. The specialness of the Sabbath existed from the beginning. BUT the command to keep it holy by resting did not exist for Israel until after the Exodus. Never was Adam or Noah or any other Gentile ever commanded to rest on the Sabbath. The first mention of any rest *for any human beings* on the Sabbath was when manna didn't fall on the Seventh day.
 
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VanillaSunflowers

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Human society changes -- Hunter and gathering peoples became agricultural towns and then cities for the first time. Animals were domesticated. Pastoral peoples developed. Written language evolved for the first time. Israel as a people did not always exist, and so the Mosaic covenant did not always exist. Are you trying to say that the law to separate linen and wool existed from Adam's time? That's ridiculous!

1. There is universal law, which effects all humanity (example, don't kill someone because they look at you funny) and this law has existed since the beginning of humankind. Sometimes this is called Natural Law.
2. Then there is Mosaic law, which effects just Israel (example, don't have sex with your menstruating wife) and this law has only existed since Mt. Sinai.

You refer very often to the prohibition of sex with a menstruating wife.

You believe the Mitzvot did not come into existence until Mt. Sainai. You are then saying the Jews had no law before Moses.
 
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roamer_1

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Human society changes -- Hunter and gathering peoples became agricultural towns and then cities for the first time. Animals were domesticated. Pastoral peoples developed. Written language evolved for the first time.

Not really. Prior to the last 250 years, Humans have pretty much been the same... a blend of hunter/gatherer with agrarian since the beginning of proven history. Cities go back equally as far.

Israel as a people did not always exist, and so the Mosaic covenant did not always exist.

The character of YHWH has always existed. What he says is good for his creation and for his people cannot have changed. His preferences in worship cannot have changed. What HE sees as lawful and right cannot have changed. Because YHWH does not change.

Are you trying to say that the law to separate linen and wool existed from Adam's time? That's ridiculous!

Tell me what the commandment against mixing wool and linen is for. What does it mean?

1. There is universal law, which effects all humanity (example, don't kill someone because they look at you funny) and this law has existed since the beginning of humankind. Sometimes this is called Natural Law.
2. Then there is Mosaic law, which effects just Israel (example, don't have sex with your menstruating wife) and this law has only existed since Mt. Sinai.

Then how did Abraham walk in YHWH's commandments and obey all his statutes?

There is only Torah. And according to the prophets, the whole world will walk in Torah before it is done.
 
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Open Heart

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You refer very often to the prohibition of sex with a menstruating wife.
I refer to laws that I know my Gentile Christian brethren (and sistren :) ) don't keep, like not having clothing with both wool and linen, or not lighting a stove on Sabbath. That's why I refer to family purity laws.
 
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VanillaSunflowers

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I refer to laws that I know my Gentile Christian brethren (and sistren :) ) don't keep, like not having clothing with both wool and linen, or not lighting a stove on Sabbath. That's why I refer to family purity laws.
OK. :) Are those prohibitions in the Torah? Or the Talmud?
 
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Open Heart

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Not really. Prior to the last 250 years, Humans have pretty much been the same... a blend of hunter/gatherer with agrarian since the beginning of proven history. Cities go back equally as far.
That is SO not true. The neolithic revolution only began 9000 years ago in the Fertile Crescent. Evidence indicates Hunter Gatherer human peoples go back 200,000 years.
 
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roamer_1

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That is SO not true. The neolithic revolution only began 9000 years ago in the Fertile Crescent. Evidence indicates Hunter Gatherer human peoples go back 200,000 years.

I said proven history. There is so very little anthropological evidence extending beyond 4000BC that it is hardly worth mention. I would rather work in the history that we actually know (albeit even that imperfectly) than to be subject to archaeological fancy.
 
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Open Heart

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OK. :) Are those prohibitions in the Torah? Or the Talmud?
TORAH! :) (Athough based on Deuteronomy 17:8-13, Oral Torah (Talmud) carries God's authority as well for Jewish law. Talmud functions like case law, recording all arguments for and against, so you have to be trained how to read it. Jesus supported Oral Torah in Matthew 23:2, and Matthew 23:23.)

There are five verses forbidding wool and linen together. Here is one:
Do not wear clothes of wool and linen woven together. Deuteronomy 22:11 (Today some linen is used in the manufacturing of some wool suits -- it's in the button thread -- Orthodox Jews therefore buy suits specially certified to be 100% wool.)

Do not light a fire in any of your dwellings on the Sabbath day." Exodus 35:3 It is in the same passage where the death penalty is given for violating the Sabbath.

Do not approach a woman to have sexual relations during the uncleanness of her monthly period. Leviticus 18:19 This is in the same passage of Scripture that forbids incest, adultery, inappropriate behavior with animals, sodomy, and sacrificing children to Molech--it's a list of "abominations."
 
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You believe the Mitzvot did not come into existence until Mt. Sainai. You are then saying the Jews had no law before Moses.
They had universal law before Sinai, but did not have Mosaic law. IOW, they were not to murder, but they could eat pork before Sinai.
 
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Open Heart

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I said proven history. There is so very little anthropological evidence extending beyond 4000BC that it is hardly worth mention. I would rather work in the history that we actually know (albeit even that imperfectly) than to be subject to archaeological fancy.
Obviously you don't value real scholarship. Real science which begins with evidence and ends with conclusions. You seem to begin with conclusions and filter the evidence to support it. Not only do we have the remains of tools and fossils from the Paleolithic Era, but we have a plethora of new evidence from the field of Genetics.
 
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VanillaSunflowers

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They had universal law before Sinai, but did not have Mosaic law. IOW, they were not to murder, but they could eat pork before Sinai.
Prior to Sinai there was the Edenic, the Adamic covenant, the Noahic covenant, and the Abrahamic covenants.
 
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roamer_1

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Obviously you don't value real scholarship. Real science which begins with evidence and ends with conclusions. You seem to begin with conclusions and filter the evidence to support it. Not only do we have the remains of tools and fossils from the Paleolithic Era, but we have a plethora of new evidence from the field of Genetics.

I am happy to entertain real scholarship and real science. The comparatively few tools and fossils evident prior to 4000BC are widely scattered, and far too few to conclusively declare that hunter/gatherer was the only societal form - Largely a presupposition that fits the preferred evolutionary model.

Farmland would necessarily be near to water. Rivers and streams meander over many centuries, and could wipe away evidence of 'towns' and farming. We see this in contemporary history, where evidence of known habitation is scoured away completely.

Which is why I pointed directly to anthropology rather than archaeology.
 
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In the contention between right vs. wrong, good vs. evil, Truth vs. deceit

We, as people, search for the highest form of knowledge in able to discern even the most perplexing situations. Historically and within certain current circles, The 10 Commandments has been the cornerstone for all ethical/religious doctrine and ethical/religious practice. However, in the pursuit of righteousness and a better Hope, this teaching will be confronted here today. Scriptures will be used from the King James Bible as it is the bases of this viewpoint; I encourage you to read the chapters of the selected Scriptures. Also, I want to highlight the importance of the wording within Scripture and this forum. The 10 Commandments will be referred to as 'The Law'.

The Law refers to 613 commands, not just 10 of them and sin is disobedience to God, so it is disobedience to any of them.

Romans 7:8- But sin, taking occasion by the law, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. (lust)

Romans 7:10&11- and the law which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. For sin, taking occasion by the law, deceived me, and by it slew me.

1 Corinthians 15:56- the strength of sin is the law.

Romans 6:14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

There is something about that law that we are not under that has to do with sin no longer having dominion over us. Paul also talked about death no longer having dominion over us in the preceding verses, so the law that we are not under is the law of sin and death. In Romans 7:12-23, Paul said that God's law was holy, righteous, and good, that it was the good that he sought to do and delighted in doing, but contrasted that with a law of sin and death that was working within him to cause to not do the good that he wanted to do, so the law of sin and death is the law that stirs up sin and death and is the opposite of God's law.

You read in the law not to covet, then you look outside your window and see your neighbor driving your dream car, even the color you want. The practice is not to covet. Now you're practicing not to want something that you want and the stronger the desire is to have it makes it all more difficult. A lot of times the line of morality between right and wrong isn't so cut and dry. What seems good could end up being destructive and vise versa.
The law gives knowledge of sin, it teaches us what evil is but doesn't show us what the good is to choose.

What is the purpose of the 10 Commandments?
Galations 3:24- the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

The depiction of the word schoolmaster is a overseer. Like how a nanny would be to a child, the nanny will oversee and discipline the child until the parents return. However, once the parents return there is no need for the nanny; in this case the schoolmaster.

Galations 3:25- But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Romans 10:4- Christ is the end of the law to all who believe.

God has always been holy, righteous, and good, so the way to have such a conduct has existed from the beginning and will remain the same as long as God's holiness, righteousness, and goodness does not change. God's law is holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:12) because it is His instructions for how to have such a conduct and to act in line with God's character, so the only way for God's law to come to an end would be for God's holiness, righteousness, and goodness to first come to an end. However, in Romans 10:4, the word "telos" can be better translated as saying that Messiah is the goal of the law because the law is all about him. In other words, if you read the law and don't see that it is all about building a relationship with Messiah based on faith, then you've missed the point of it. In Philippians 3:8-9, Paul had been keeping the law without its focus on Messiah, so he had been missing the point of it, which is why he considered it to be rubbish.

In regard to Galatians 3, is it your understanding that when you go under a tutor and reach that point where they are no longer needed that the intention is then disregard everything that they taught you? Or is the point when a tutor is no longer needed when you've learned everything they had to teach and taken their lessons to heart? When a student goes from middle school to high school and comes under a new teacher, is the intention for them to forget everything their previous teachers taught them and start fresh? Or is the intention for the new teacher incorporate and build upon what they have been previously taught? Having no more need for a teacher is not at all the same as having no more need for what they taught you. The Spirit is a superior teacher, but the Spirit still has the role of leading us to live in accordance with God's law (Ezekiel 36:26-27).

Romans 8:3- For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh.

There is no good that can be done apart for Christ that would be acceptable unto God. This is the start of the conversation of we are no longer under the The Law of Moses but under a new Law of the Spirit Of Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 8:3-4: For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin,[c] he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Jesus came to set us free from sinning in disobedience to the law so that we would be free to obey it and meet its righteous requirement. The Spirit and the Son and not in disagreement with the Father about what conduct we should have, but rather the law of the Spirit is the same thing as the law of Christ, which is the same thing as the law of the Father, which was given to Moses. God's law is spiritual (Romans 7:14) and it is those who have a carnal mind who refuse to submit to it (Romans 8:7), so walking in according to the flesh is not walking in obedience to God's law, but rather it is walking in disobedience to it. Again, the law that we are no longer under is not the Law of Moses, but rather it is the law of sin and death.

John 13:34- A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you

I encourage everyone reading this to meditate on this conversation. Discuss it with your small group. Lets talk about it here. You cannot have old wine in a new wine skin.

The Greek uses two different words that are often translated as "new", with one meaning brand new with respect to time and the other meaning restored with respect to quality. The parable of the wineskins is a perfect example to demonstrate this difference because it used both words in that it is talking about putting wine that has just been made into wineskins that have been restored. Jesus was being asked about his selection of disciples and essentially responded that you can't teach an old dog new tricks. He was teaching a way of following God's law that was different than the way that the other teachers of the law were teaching (See Matthew 5), so if he had selected disciples who had already been educated in following the mountains of Jewish traditions, then they would first have to unlearn what they had been taught.

http://biblehub.com/text/luke/5-37.htm

In regard to John 13:34, the word use is new with respect to quality, and indeed there is nothing brand new about the command to love one another because it can be found in Leviticus 19:18. What is new is the quality of the example by which we should love one another. However, we should not say we just need to obey this one command to love, so we can disregard all of God's other commands for how He wants us to love.

http://biblehub.com/text/john/13-34.htm
 
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