The Promised Restoration of Israel, In Her Own Land

[yeshuasavedme]

Ebed, you are equating circumcision with faith, and it never was. It is about obedience, as Paul said.


Circumcision is obedience for the flesh seed of Abraham through Isaac and Jacob until the 8th Millennial Day. It is a sign/a living oracle, and all male Jews who come into Christ are obligated to obey God and not depart the circumcision/Moses.
That is what the Jerusalem Council declared when they declared Gentiles come into Christ were not to come into Moses/the circumcision and not to keep the oracles of the Torah.

You keep repeating the same errors over and over again, and trying to undo the Acts 15 decision of the Apostles and, with the Holy Spirit.

Gentiles in Christ are not to come under Moses/into the circumcision, but Jews come into Christ are not to depart Moses/the circumcision.

For that reason, Paul circumcised Timothy after the Jerusalem council met and gave Paul & Silas the letter to deliver to the Gentile Churches, before he would take Timothy with him on that mission trip to the Gentile Churches!

Paul took a young male Jew who had a Jewish mother and Greek father but had never been circumcised, and Paul circumcised him with his own hands.
Paul had the letter to the Gentile Churches in his pocket, to deliver to the Gentile Churches which said believing Gentiles are not not to come into the circumcision/into Moses, but Paul circumcised a male Jew who was in Christ already.

Paul did that to teach the Jews not to depart Moses, who come into Christ. You have your doctrine all twisted up and you cast out the clear Word of God as it is written.

Paul taught it to the believing Jews by circumcising Timothy, a Jew, but Paul said it again to make it clear, in 1 Cor 7:17


1 Cor 7:17 But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches.
18 Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised.
19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
20 Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called.

To depart the circumcision when called into Christ is forbidden for the Jew, according to Moses/YHWH/Torah; and the council in Jerusalem did not and could not undo circumcision for believing Jews. That sign is not fulfilled and will not be until the 8th millennial Day, and the seventh Millennial Day will see all believers in Israel circumcised in the flesh, as well as in the heart.


Paul taught the same, for it is a commandment of God for the Jews to be circumcised in their flesh, until the 8th Millennial Day ends.

It is in effect for for Jewish believers who are to obey God by the circumcision of the flesh.

Obedience is required for Jews born in the circumcision. It is a commandment of God for all male Jews, believing Jews must not depart the circumcision/Moses.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Wow! In the millennial Sabbath for earth, not only will all Jews be circumcised in the flesh and in the heart, but absolutely no stranger in Israel will enter the Sanctuary of the LORD in the millennial reign unless they are circumcised in flesh and in heart!

So the flesh and the heart will both need to be circumcised as requirements for entering the sanctuary of the LORD in the Millennial Sabbath! -Amazing!

In the millennial reign, only the circumcised in flesh and circumcised in heart shall enter the Sanctuary of God.

Eze 44:9 Thus saith the Lord GOD; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel.

 

[ebedmelech]

Ebed, you are equating circumcision with faith, and it never was. It is about obedience, as Paul said.


Circumcision is obedience for the flesh seed of Abraham through Isaac and Jacob until the 8th Millennial Day. It is a sign/a living oracle, and all male Jews who come into Christ are obligated to obey God and not depart the circumcision/Moses.
That is what the Jerusalem Council declared when they declared Gentiles come into Christ were not to come into Moses/the circumcision and not to keep the oracles of the Torah.

You keep repeating the same errors over and over again, and trying to undo the Acts 15 decision of the Apostles and, with the Holy Spirit.

Gentiles in Christ are not to come under Moses/into the circumcision, but Jews come into Christ are not to depart Moses/the circumcision.

For that reason, Paul circumcised Timothy after the Jerusalem council met and gave Paul & Silas the letter to deliver to the Gentile Churches, before he would take Timothy with him on that mission trip to the Gentile Churches!

Paul took a young male Jew who had a Jewish mother and Greek father but had never been circumcised, and Paul circumcised him with his own hands.
Paul had the letter to the Gentile Churches in his pocket, to deliver to the Gentile Churches which said believing Gentiles are not not to come into the circumcision/into Moses, but Paul circumcised a male Jew who was in Christ already.

Paul did that to teach the Jews not to depart Moses, who come into Christ. You have your doctrine all twisted up and you cast out the clear Word of God as it is written.

Paul taught it to the believing Jews by circumcising Timothy, a Jew, but Paul said it again to make it clear, in 1 Cor 7:17


1 Cor 7:17 But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches.
18 Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised.
19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
20 Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called.

To depart the circumcision when called into Christ is forbidden for the Jew, according to Moses/YHWH/Torah; and the council in Jerusalem did not and could not undo circumcision for believing Jews. That sign is not fulfilled and will not be until the 8th millennial Day, and the seventh Millennial Day will see all believers in Israel circumcised in the flesh, as well as in the heart.


Paul taught the same, for it is a commandment of God for the Jews to be circumcised in their flesh, until the 8th Millennial Day ends.

It is in effect for for Jewish believers who are to obey God by the circumcision of the flesh.

Obedience is required for Jews born in the circumcision. It is a commandment of God for all male Jews, believing Jews must not depart the circumcision/Moses.

Ok...keep with that thinking. It's obvious you're simply trying to win an argument at this point.

Paul said "CIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING and UNCIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING". Yeshuasavedme says the exact opposite...and is still trying to affirm something Paul is NOT teaching!!!

How many times does Paul have to say it?

1 Corinthians 7:19:
Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God. (We *should* know Paul isn't speaking of the OT Law, because that clearly commanded circumcision on the 8th day for a male. So the commandments Paul is speaking of are the New Covenant.)

Galatians 5:2
Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you.

Galatians 5:6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.

Galatians 6:15
For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation.

Colossians 2:11
and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;

 

[Bible2]

ebedmelech said in post 174:

...you actually think Jesus is going to come down and sit on a throne and run the world from Jerusalem...

Yes.

Presently the kingdom of God is in heaven (2 Timothy 4:18, Hebrews 12:22-24) and is on the earth spiritually within Christians (Romans 14:17, Luke 17:21). But in the future the kingdom will come fully upon the earth as it is in heaven (Matthew 6:10). It will also be physically (Luke 22:30, Matthew 19:28) on the earth (Revelation 5:10), first during the future millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 66:3-4, Psalms 72:8-11, Zechariah 14:3-21) and then on the new earth (Revelation 21:1-8).

Jesus' kingdom is Israel (John 1:49, John 12:13-15, John 19:19, Luke 22:30). That's why at his 2nd coming he will sit on the earthly throne of David (Luke 1:32-33, Isaiah 9:7) and restore the kingdom to Israel (Acts 1:6-7, Acts 3:20-21). Jesus is in his humanity the son of David (Matthew 1:1, Matthew 21:15-16, Romans 1:3), of the house of David (Luke 1:69). So at Jesus' 2nd coming he will restore the tabernacle, the house, of David (Isaiah 16:5, Amos 9:11) to its royal glory (2 Samuel 5:12) which it had lost (2 Kings 17:21a). And Jesus will fulfill the prophecy and prayer of 2 Samuel 7:16-29. And he will bring salvation to all the still-living unbelieving elect Jews of the house of David. For they (along with all other still-living unbelieving elect Jews) will come into faith in him when they see him at his 2nd coming (Zechariah 12:10-14, Zechariah 13:1,6, Romans 11:26-31). And so they will become part of the church at that time, for there are now no believers outside of the church (Ephesians 4:4-6).

After Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:3, Zechariah 14:3-5) will occur the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Zechariah 14:8-21) during which Gentile nations will come to seek the returned Jesus ruling the whole earth (Zechariah 8:22, Zechariah 14:9, Psalms 72:8-11) on the restored throne of David (Isaiah 9:7) in the earthly Jerusalem (Isaiah 2:1-4, Zechariah 14:8-11,16-19). And the bodily resurrected church will reign on the earth with Jesus during the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29). For the church is Israel (Romans 11:1,17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29, Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10).

 

[Bible2]

yeshuasavedme said in post 175:

You missed the message from the Apostles in Jerusalem by the Holy Spirit's instruction in Acts 15.

The meeting in Acts 15:6-29 was about whether or not believing Gentiles must keep the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Acts 15:5,6,24). The church leadership as a whole in Jerusalem wasn't ready at that time to say the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law didn't have to be kept by Jews either, because it had been abolished, even for Jews (Romans 7:6, Hebrews 7:18-19, Galatians 2:11-21, Galatians 4:21 to 5:8, Galatians 3:2-25; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18), on the New Covenant Cross of Jesus (Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17, Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 10). But this truth was known full well by Peter (Acts 15:5,10,11), even though he sometimes didn't act like he knew it, and so he was admonished one time by Paul away from the leaders in Jerusalem, while he was up in Antioch (Galatians 2:11-21). Paul and other apostles who knew the truth got it directly from Jesus and not from other apostles (Galatians 1:11-12; 2 Peter 1:16). That's why they could fend for themselves in arguing against those Jews who were pressuring believing Gentiles to keep the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Acts 15:2a).

But when they couldn't convince those Jews to stop their pressuring, they got yet other leaders (Acts 15:2b) (such as James) which those Jews' hopefully would obey (Galatians 2:12), to get them to stop, through a letter which showed believing Gentiles that none of the leaders of the church were commanding them to keep the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Acts 15:24).

When Peter was away from Jerusalem living among the Gentiles in Antioch he rightly lived "after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews" (Galatians 2:14). It was only when some Jews came to Antioch who were "from James" (Galatians 2:12) that Peter reverted back to their (mistaken) practice. For James and those who followed him "zealously" (yet still mistakenly) held that the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law was still in effect for Jews (Acts 15:21, Acts 21:18-24). Such Old Covenant Mosaic law-zealous Jews griped to James over what Paul was telling Jews (Acts 21:21).

yeshuasavedme said in post 175:

Paul did not miss that message!

Paul taught both Jews and Gentiles not to keep the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Romans 7:6, Galatians 2:11-21, Galatians 4:21 to 5:8, Galatians 3:2-25; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18, Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17).

yeshuasavedme said in post 175:

Paul carried in his pocket the letter to the Gentiles who were come into Christ that they were not to come under Moses, but the Jews had Moses, who were in Christ, said the council in Jerusalem.

Acts 15:21 is a quotation of James (Acts 15:13-21), one of the people in the church at that early time who mistakenly thought the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law was still in effect (Acts 21:20).

yeshuasavedme said in post 175:

The believing Jews were not set free from Moses, said the council in Jerusalem, and Paul circumcised Timothy, who was an uncircumcised Jew who had come into Christ, before Paul would take that one with him on the mission trip to deliver the letter from the council in Jerusalem to the Gentile Churches.

Paul circumcised Timothy not because Paul thought the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law was still in effect for Jews, but simply so "the Jews which were in those quarters" (of what's today Turkey) would allow Timothy to enter synagogues with Paul during his journey (Acts 16:3).

On Jesus' Cross, for both Jews and Gentiles (John 11:51-52), of all times, the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law was abolished (Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18), disannulled (Hebrews 7:18), rendered obsolete (Hebrews 8:13, Galatians 3:2-25, Galatians 4:21 to 5:8), taken away and replaced (Hebrews 10:9) by the better hope (Hebrews 7:19), the better covenant (Hebrews 7:22, Hebrews 8:6-12), the 2nd covenant (Hebrews 8:7, Hebrews 10:9), of Jesus' New Covenant law (Galatians 6:2, John 1:17, Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 12:24, Hebrews 9:15), so that the law was changed (Hebrews 7:12).

All believers, both Jews and Gentles, of all times, are delivered from the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law and shouldn't keep it (Romans 7:6; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18, Galatians 2:11-21) or have any desire to keep it (Galatians 4:21 to 5:8, Galatians 3:2-25). Believers keep the spirit of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Romans 7:6) by loving others (Galatians 5:14, Romans 13:8-10), by doing to others as they would have others do to them (Matthew 7:12).

The New Covenant is a new law (Hebrews 7:12,18,19, Hebrews 10:1-23) consisting of Jesus' New Covenant/New Testament commandments (John 14:15) such as those he gave in the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5:19 to 7:29) and in the epistles of Paul the apostle (1 Corinthians 14:37). These commandments exceed in righteousness the abolished letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Matthew 5:20-48). So there's no reason why any believer should ever want to go back under the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Galatians 3:2 to 5:26). It was just a temporary schoolmaster (Galatians 3:24-25), a temporary shadow (Colossians 2:16-17), which God set up because of sins long after he'd set up the original promise of the Abrahamic Covenant and long before he brought that promise to fulfillment in Jesus' New Covenant (Galatians 3:16-29, Matthew 26:28).

The letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law has been made obsolete by the New Covenant (Hebrews 8:13). For example, the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law required an Aaronic priesthood (Exodus 30:30) whereas the New Covenant replaced the Aaronic priesthood with the Melchisedechian priesthood (Hebrews 7:11-28). And the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law required animal sacrifices for sin (e.g. Leviticus 23:19) whereas the New Covenant replaced these with the one-time sacrifice of Jesus (Hebrews 10).

The letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law is the Hagar to the New Covenant's Sarah (Galatians 4:22-25), so that those people, whether Jews or Gentiles, who try to keep the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law are like Ishmael, whereas those people, whether Jews or Gentiles, who keep the New Covenant are like Isaac (Galatians 4:22-31).

The letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (including the letter of the 10 commandments) written and engraven in stones (2 Corinthians 3:7, Deuteronomy 4:13, Deuteronomy 27:8) was the ministration of death and condemnation (2 Corinthians 3:7,9). For example, see Leviticus 20:10, Exodus 31:14 and Numbers 15:32-36; and contrast these with the New Covenant's John 8:4-11 and Matthew 12:1-8. The letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law has been done away (2 Corinthians 3:11), abolished (2 Corinthians 3:13b). But it's still able to spiritually blind some people as with a veil from beholding Jesus (2 Corinthians 3:14-16) whereas the New Covenant is the ministration of the spirit and righteousness (2 Corinthians 3:6,8,9b) which remains (2 Corinthians 3:11b) and which permits believers to remove the veil and to behold Jesus (2 Corinthians 3:16-18, Mark 15:38, Hebrews 7:18-19, Ephesians 2:15-18, Colossians 2:14-17).

But a mistaken spirit of Pharisaism can still sometimes deceive even Christians into thinking they must keep the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law in order to be saved (Acts 15:1,5) or in order to become perfect (Galatians 3:2 to 5:26). This is a false, cursed gospel (Galatians 1:6-9). For if any believers are keeping any part of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law thinking they must do so in order to be saved or in order to become perfect, then Jesus will profit them nothing; they have fallen from grace (Galatians 5:2-8).

*******

yeshuasavedme said in post 177:

l circumcised Timothy, a saved but "Jewish" believer, after the Jerusalem Council, and Salvation is not nor ever was by circumcision, as the Law declares, but the signs delivered to the namesake people shall be kept until every jot and tittle of them is fulfilled.

Matthew 5:18 doesn't mean heaven and earth have to pass away before the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law's commandments can be abolished, but that Jesus had to fulfill the Old Testament prophecies regarding the Christ's first coming (Luke 24:44-46; e.g. Acts 3:22-26, Isaiah 53) before he could abolish the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law's commandments (for both Jews and Gentiles, of all times) on the Cross (Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17, Romans 7:6; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18, Hebrews 7:18-19).

yeshuasavedme said in post 177:

So circumcision of the flesh is not fulfilled and will not even be fulfilled unto after the Millennial Sabbath, for no uncircumcised in heart or flesh Jew will ever enter the Sanctuary of YHWH in the Millennial reign of His Peace on earth!

If Ezekiel 44:9 is referring to Old Covenant circumcision, Ezekiel chapters 40 to 48 aren't necessarily a prophecy of future events which must happen, like those in Revelation must happen (Revelation 1:1), but could have been a conditional vision which Israel had to fulfill while it was still in Old Testament/Old Covenant times (Ezekiel 43:11). For the vision refers to animal sacrifices for sin (e.g. Ezekiel 43:21-22), which were abolished by Jesus on the Cross, along with all the rest of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17, Hebrews 7:18-19, Romans 7:6; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18). Jesus' New Covenant sacrifice for sin (Matthew 26:28) completely and forever replaced all the Old Covenant animal sacrifices for sin (Hebrews 10:1-23).

If Ezekiel 44:9 is referring to a future time under the New Covenant, then its "flesh" circumcision could be figurative, like the New Covenant "flesh" circumcision in Colossians 2:11 (for both Jews and Gentiles) is figurative (cf. also Romans 2:28-29).

*******

yeshuasavedme said in post 181:

You keep repeating the same errors over and over again, and trying to undo the Acts 15 decision of the Apostles and, with the Holy Spirit.

Regarding "with the Holy Spirit", note that the historical account of the forbidding of believing Gentiles to eat certain foods at the time of Acts 15:29 isn't in line with the scriptural teachings which show under the New Covenant all foods are in themselves okay for all believers, whether Jews or Gentiles, to eat (1 Timothy 4:4-5, Romans 14:14,20, Mark 7:18-19; 1 Corinthians 10:25-30, Colossians 2:16-17, Hebrews 9:10). But it may have seemed good to the Holy Spirit (Acts 15:28) to allow Acts 15:29 as an only-temporary compromise among the church leaders at that time, so a schism wouldn't arise within the church (cf. 1 Corinthians 12:25) so shortly after its inception, between those leaders who at that time still (mistakenly) wanted to continue keeping the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Acts 15:21, Acts 21:20b) and those leaders who knew the truth that all believers, whether Jews or Gentiles, shouldn't try to keep the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Acts 15:10, Romans 7:6, Galatians 4:21 to 5:8, Galatians 3:2-25, Galatians 2:11-21; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18, Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17, Hebrews 7:18-19, Hebrews 10:9b).

yeshuasavedme said in post 181:

1 Cor 7:17 But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches.
18 Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised.
19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
20 Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called.

1 Corinthians 7:18-19 refers to physical circumcision, which under the New Covenant isn't required of believers, whether Jews or Gentiles (Galatians 5:6). There's also the spiritual circumcision of water-immersion (burial) baptism into Jesus (Colossians 2:11-13, Philippians 3:3, Romans 2:29) which is required of believers, whether Jews or Gentiles, if they're to attain ultimate salvation (Romans 6:3-8, Mark 16:16; 1 Peter 3:21, Acts 2:38, Galatians 3:27). Also, in 1 Corinthians 7:19 the "commandments of God" aren't the letter of the commandments of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, for in 1 Corinthians 7:19 the "commandments of God" don't include physical circumcision which was part of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Exodus 12:48).

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Error, Bible 2, so much so that it is tiring to try to even begin, but for one, the "New Covenant" is the cup of salvation drunk at the Passover meal. You twisted the words in Acts 15 and the letter to the Gentiles but the Jews have Moses, which they do not forsake, and Paul's words and doctrines and the Apostles doctrines, to something not even in the Word.


Jesus did not invent a new thing at Passover, but showed that the "Cup of Salvation" drunk after the meal was the New covenant in His blood. They always had been drinking the cup, and reciting the blessings, and now, they were told what it meant in relation to Christ's salvation for them, as prophesied in Psalm 118, as "Our God", Yeshua, the "Sacrifice bound to the horns of the altar".


Psa 118:21 I will praise thee: for thou hast heard me, and art become my salvation/Yeshua.

Psalm 118:19- Open to me the gates of righteousness: I will go into them, and I will praise the Lord: 20 This gate of the Lord, into which the righteous shall enter.
21 I will praise thee: for thou hast heard me, and art become my salvation/Yeshua.
22 The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner.
23 This is the Lord's doing; it is marvellous in our eyes.
24 This is the day which the Lord hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.
25 Save now, I beseech thee, O Lord: O Lord, I beseech thee, send now prosperity.
26 Blessed be he that cometh in the name of the Lord: we have blessed you out of the house of the Lord.

27 God is the Lord, which hath shewed us light: bind the sacrifice with cords, even unto the horns of the altar.
28 Thou art my God, and I will praise thee: thou art my God, I will exalt thee.

29 O give thanks unto the Lord; for he is good: for his mercy endureth for ever.

 

[ebedmelech]

Yes.

Presently the kingdom of God is in heaven...

No. The kingdom of God is more than heaven! Paul tells us we are FELLOW CITIZENS with the saints. Believers are in the kingdom and strangers and aliens here. Rethink that.

Jesus' kingdom is Israel (John 1:49, John 12:13-15, John 19:19, Luke 22:30).

Once again, you have to let the bible tell you the answer. You're going to have all kinds of problems when Paul makes the clear statement "THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL THAT ARE DESCENDED FROM ISRAEL..."

After Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:3, Zechariah 14:3-5) will occur the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Zechariah 14:8-21) during which Gentile nations will come to seek the returned Jesus ruling the whole earth (Zechariah 8:22, Zechariah 14:9, Psalms 72:8-11) on the restored throne of David (Isaiah 9:7) in the earthly Jerusalem (Isaiah 2:1-4, Zechariah 14:8-11,16-19). And the bodily resurrected church will reign on the earth with Jesus during the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29). For the church is Israel (Romans 11:1,17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29, Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10).

No again. The millennium started when Jesus uttered Matthew 28:18. No matter what you say, the scripture says this:
1 Peter 2:9-12:
9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;
10 for you once were not a people, but now you are the people of God; you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.
11 Beloved, I urge you as aliens and strangers to abstain from fleshly lusts which wage war against the soul.
12 Keep your behavior excellent among the Gentiles, so that in the thing in which they slander you as evildoers, they may because of your good deeds, as they observe them, glorify God in the day of visitation.
Let God be true...

 

[shturt678s]

No. The kingdom of God is more than heaven! Paul tells us we are FELLOW CITIZENS with the saints. Believers are in the kingdom and strangers and aliens here. Rethink that.


Once again, you have to let the bible tell you the answer. You're going to have all kinds of problems when Paul makes the clear statement "THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL THAT ARE DESCENDED FROM ISRAEL..."

No again. The millennium started when Jesus uttered Matthew 28:18

Only my view, ie, millennium began a little earlier loosely speaking at Jesus' last temptation, Lk.11:21-22, ie, Jesus defeated Satan where at the Cross absolutely conquered Satan where technically the millennium began.

No matter what you say, the scripture says this:
1 Peter 2:9-12:
9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;
10 for you once were not a people, but now you are the people of God; you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.
11 Beloved, I urge you as aliens and strangers to abstain from fleshly lusts which wage war against the soul.
12 Keep your behavior excellent among the Gentiles, so that in the thing in which they slander you as evildoers, they may because of your good deeds, as they observe them, glorify God in the day of visitation.
Let God be true...

Old Jack, ie, not a good liar

 

[ebedmelech]

Only my view, ie, millennium began a little earlier loosely speaking at Jesus' last temptation, Lk.11:21-22, ie, Jesus defeated Satan where at the Cross absolutely conquered Satan where technically the millennium began.

I won't quibble with that Jack...I just prefer to go with when Jesus verbally stated He had received all authority, which was Matthew 28:18.

 

[shturt678s]

I won't quibble with that Jack...I just prefer to go with when Jesus verbally stated He had received all authority, which was Matthew 28:18.

Always have appreciated Matt.28:18, etc. with you as Jesus already had the power and authority as the Son of God from eternity, and now also in His human nature, ie, pretty powerful Lord we have only for openers.

Old Jack repenting of his wind and quibbling

 

[ebedmelech]

Always have appreciated Matt.28:18, etc. with you as Jesus already had the power and authority as the Son of God from eternity, and now also in His human nature, ie, pretty powerful Lord we have only for openers.

Old Jack repenting of his wind and quibbling

Well no Jack! Now you've raised a point that needs to be addressed. Jesus submitted Himself to the Father in coming to earth, and even stated "The Father is Greater than I" (John 14:28).

Then we have Philippians 2:5-8 expresses this clearly as we are to humble ourselves as Christ did:
5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus,
6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,
7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.
8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

Philippians 2:9-11 tell us THAT is WHY God exalted Jesus:
9 For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name,
10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Now...that's what it is! Christ humbles Himself to the Father in coming to earth, therefore, He subjects Himself to the Father, and in doing so as the sacrifice for sin, God exalts Him.

I would agree before coming to earth Christ is co-equal with the Father. What we have is agreement in the Godhead, which God gives a peak in Psalm 40:6-9:
6 Sacrifice and meal offering You have not desired; My ears You have opened;
Burnt offering and sin offering You have not required.
7 Then I said, “Behold, I come; In the scroll of the book it is written of me.
8 I delight to do Your will, O my God; Your Law is within my heart.”
9 I have proclaimed glad tidings of righteousness in the great congregation;
Behold, I will not restrain my lips, O Lord, You know.

 

[shturt678s]

Well no Jack! Now you've raised a point that needs to be addressed. Jesus submitted Himself to the Father in coming to earth, and even stated "The Father is Greater than I" (John 14:28).

Well no ebed! Well yes, before the Cross, eg, Jn.14:28, Jesus in His human nature was limited to a narrow range in exercising His divine attributes; well no, after the Cross, Jesus had no limitations of any kind in His human nature still united to His divine nature as the Son of course (Matt.28:18)

Then we have Philippians 2:5-8 expresses this clearly as we are to humble ourselves as Christ did:
5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus,
6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,
7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.
8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

Philippians 2:9-11 tell us THAT is WHY God exalted Jesus:
9 For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name,
10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Phil.2:5, etc. Well no again my friend. This is Paul's great passage on the humiliation and the exaltation of Christ, on these two states, after the Cross. Here both deal with Christ's human nature, ie, His divine nature can undergo neither humiliation nor exaltation, it's immutable of course.

Now...that's what it is! Christ humbles Himself to the Father in coming to earth, therefore, He subjects Himself to the Father, and in doing so as the sacrifice for sin, God exalts Him.

I would agree before coming to earth Christ is co-equal with the Father. What we have is agreement in the Godhead, which God gives a peak in Psalm 40:6-9:
6 Sacrifice and meal offering You have not desired; My ears You have opened;
Burnt offering and sin offering You have not required.
7 Then I said, “Behold, I come; In the scroll of the book it is written of me.
8 I delight to do Your will, O my God; Your Law is within my heart.”
9 I have proclaimed glad tidings of righteousness in the great congregation;
Behold, I will not restrain my lips, O Lord, You know.

Old Jack really agreeing with you broadly speaking; however quibbling for sure.

btw rough areas and you did well not condescending in any shape or form.

 

[ebedmelech]

Well no ebed! Well yes, before the Cross, eg, Jn.14:28, Jesus in His human nature was limited to a narrow range in exercising His divine attributes; well no, after the Cross, Jesus had no limitations of any kind in His human nature still united to His divine nature as the Son of course (Matt.28:18)

That's the point..."before the cross". Did I not say before Christ came to earth He was co-equal with the Father? He subjected Himself to the Father for our benefit.

Phil.2:5, etc. Well no again my friend. This is Paul's great passage on the humiliation and the exaltation of Christ, on these two states, after the Cross. Here both deal with Christ's human nature, ie, His divine nature can undergo neither humiliation nor exaltation, it's immutable of course.

Well let's examine that. Explain how Jesus is made a "little lower than the angels for a little while"? (Hebrews 2;7, 8). What these deal with is both, Christ coming as the Messiah, and also his exaltation by the Father after the sacrifice of Himself.

The point is Christ subjected Himself to the Father for a specific purpose...ie salvation in the New Covenant. After doing so, the Father exalts Christ.

It's right there Jack.

 

[shturt678s]

That's the point..."before the cross". Did I not say before Christ came to earth He was co-equal with the Father? He subjected Himself to the Father for our benefit.

In His human nature of course, with you.

Well let's examine that. Explain how Jesus is made a "little lower than the angels for a little while"? (Hebrews 2;7, 8). What these deal with is both, Christ coming as the Messiah, and also his exaltation by the Father after the sacrifice of Himself.

Only a head's up, Heb.2:7, 8 does not refer to Christ, but only to men.

The point is Christ subjected Himself to the Father for a specific purpose...ie salvation in the New Covenant. After doing so, the Father exalts Christ.

It's right there Jack.

Old Jack

 

[ebedmelech]

In His human nature of course, with you.

Indeed...and he came to do THE WILL of the Father. As we would say in the Navy..."Someone has to be in charge"...think on that one.

Only a head's up, Heb.2:7, 8 does not refer to Christ, but only to men.

O contraire...I suggest you carefully read it...carefully.

 

[shturt678s]

Indeed...and he came to do THE WILL of the Father. As we would say in the Navy..."Someone has to be in charge"...think on that one.

You're correct, ie, Jesus' divine God nature united to His human nature fully 'in charge' of His human nature.

O contraire...I suggest you carefully read it...carefully.

Maybe you're correct thus let's scrutinize the ol' Heb.2:7, 8 again.

Heb.2:7, 8 (Ps.8:4-6 appropriated), "Thou didst make him a little lower than angels;
With glory and honor thoiu didst crown him
And didst set him over the works of thy hands.
V.8, All things didst thou subject under his feet........." :o

V.6, Like Paul in Acts14:15-17, David sees that God ever remembers man and looks in upon him to supply his needs, and thus to attest Himself to man in a thousand ways, ie, over a million ways in my life for sure.

V.7, As if giving an answer to his own questions David continues: "Thou didst make him (only) a little lower than angels," literally, "thou didst lower him (only) a little as compared with angels." The next lines show where God ranks man and why He remembers and looks upon him: "With glory and honor thou dist crown him," and etc. Jesus not aboard yet, however maybe in v.8?

V.8, The final line makes this still plainer: All things didst thou subject under his feet." This verb "didst thou subject" significantly repeats the "didst he subject" occurring in v.5 and thus, as in a flash my friend ebed, reveals the connection between David's description of man and trhe opening statement of v.5 that God "did subject" all things beneath the feet of man.

My end point: Ps.8:4-6 does not refer to Christ, ie, some unknowingly fallaciously insert "Christ" in v.6, and note the sense of the passage; but the rest of the quotations's appropriation, in fact, through v.8 the pronouns refers to "man" contextually and grammatically and "son of man" without change.

Do a little more work with the ancient Jewish exegetical tradition removing the Messiah from Ps.8:4-6. If we keep to what David said and to what the writer of Hebrews adds, all remains both clear and sure.

Old Jack

 

[ebedmelech]

You're correct, ie, Jesus' divine God nature united to His human nature fully 'in charge' of His human nature.

Once more, John 5:30:
30 “I can do nothing on My own initiative. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

Once again, the pure example of our Lord putting Himself under the Father's authority!

Maybe you're correct thus let's scrutinize the ol' Heb.2:7, 8 again.

Heb.2:7, 8 (Ps.8:4-6 appropriated), "Thou didst make him a little lower than angels;
With glory and honor thoiu didst crown him
And didst set him over the works of thy hands.
V.8, All things didst thou subject under his feet........." :o

V.6, Like Paul in Acts14:15-17, David sees that God ever remembers man and looks in upon him to supply his needs, and thus to attest Himself to man in a thousand ways, ie, over a million ways in my life for sure.

V.7, As if giving an answer to his own questions David continues: "Thou didst make him (only) a little lower than angels," literally, "thou didst lower him (only) a little as compared with angels." The next lines show where God ranks man and why He remembers and looks upon him: "With glory and honor thou dist crown him," and etc. Jesus not aboard yet, however maybe in v.8?

V.8, The final line makes this still plainer: All things didst thou subject under his feet." This verb "didst thou subject" significantly repeats the "didst he subject" occurring in v.5 and thus, as in a flash my friend ebed, reveals the connection between David's description of man and trhe opening statement of v.5 that God "did subject" all things beneath the feet of man.

My end point: Ps.8:4-6 does not refer to Christ, ie, some unknowingly fallaciously insert "Christ" in v.6, and note the sense of the passage; but the rest of the quotations's appropriation, in fact, through v.8 the pronouns refers to "man" contextually and grammatically and "son of man" without change.

Do a little more work with the ancient Jewish exegetical tradition removing the Messiah from Ps.8:4-6. If we keep to what David said and to what the writer of Hebrews adds, all remains both clear and sure.

Old Jack

I did do the work...you're missing the point here because you don't work the point of the entire chapter...which is showing Jesus humanity in which he comes to earth.

This is why verse 9 is most important my friend Jack...watch this:
9 But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.

I hope it starts to register to you now, what the writer of Hebrews is saying here. This is David no doubt (who is a type of Christ, ...so the writer now takes David's prayer and applies it to Jesus at verse 9...

He then, having made the connection...thrust you to the antitype...NONE OTHER THAN OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST!!!

Having successfully made the transition, the writer speaks straightfoward...HOPING...the reader has made the connection!!!

 

[shturt678s]

Once more, John 5:30:
30 “I can do nothing on My own initiative. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

Once again, the pure example of our Lord putting Himself under the Father's authority!

Not the Lord Jesus Christ (human nature united with the divine) does not put Himself under the Father's authority, however in His human nature, ie, "Jesus,"

I did do the work...you're missing the point here because you don't work the point of the entire chapter...which is showing Jesus humanity in which he comes to earth.

This is why verse 9 is most important my friend Jack...watch this:
9 But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.

Heb.2:9-18 Now we can bring Jesus aboard, ie, not vs.5-8 for sure.

[QUOTEI hope it starts to register to you now, what the writer of Hebrews is saying here. This is David no doubt (who is a type of Christ, ...so the writer now takes David's prayer and applies it to Jesus at verse 8... [/QUOTE]

V8

He then, having made the connection...thrust you to the antitype...NONE OTHER THAN OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST!!!

Having successfully made the transition, the writer speaks straightfoward...HOPING...the reader has made the connection!!!

Old Jack that appreciates you and the connection

Trying to get connected to our Creator

 

[Notrash]

Re Jer 30 & 31;
Jacob is a representation of pre mosaic covt.monotheistic God fearing humanity. Deut 32 says 'jacob' is the lot of his inheiritance in contrast with the end of the national covt entity (jeshurun)

In jer 31 the 'seed of Israel" are the new covt entity of christians (not the religion, but the faith). "Israel" is a representatice name of the 3rd licatiin of the Spirit of God as foretyped by Abraham / Isaac / jacob/Israel. Those who recieve Jeaus as the repreaentation and teacher of the life-creator recieve the intent (spirit) of the father.

Thus these are fulfilled in the "Israel of Gid" or "all Israel" as we are called in Gal and Rom 9 & 11.
The restoration was to individual 'sons of God' from the mosaic covt way; Not to national Israel of the temporary mosaic covt.

Jacob/Israel roamed the land without opposition and fear as did his forefathers.

But we've changed the new covt ordinances of being sons/daughters of the creator; adopted in our natural man through faith and added spiritual blessings, to conditional, temporary 'ordinances of a church age'

 

[random person]

New Testament Israel any different from Old Testament Israel? If so, how?

The Israel of the New Covenant is made up of:

1. those descendants of Jacob who believed in the Messiah (Mt. 10:6; 15:24; Acts 2:36-41; 21:20, etc.),

and,

2. those who joined Israel through spiritual circumcision and the keeping of the new “law” (Rom. 2:28-29; 13:10; 1 Tim. 1:5).

With the establishment of the New Covenant, physical descent was no longer a determining factor for entrance into Israel. Only those who believed in the Messiah could enter or remain a part of Israel. Let us examine what the Bible has to say on the subject: “The Lord called you [Israel] a thriving olive tree with fruit beautiful in form. But with the roar of a mighty storm He will set it on fire, and its branches will be broken.” (Jer. 11:16). Verse 17 says this was directed to “the house of Israel, and the house of Judah.” Hosea says of Israel: “His branches shall spread, and his beauty shall be as the olive tree....” (Hos. 14:6).

Paul picks up the olive tree motif in Rom. 11:17-24. He says those Jews who rejected the Messiah were themselves rejected and “broken off” (or cut off, to use the O.T. term) from the “olive tree” of Israel (v. 20). The apostle showed that the only possible way to remain a citizen of Israel was to believe in Jesus as Messiah. This citizenship was also offered to the Gentiles on the same condition. If they would put their faith in the Messiah of Israel, they would be made fellow citizens of Israel (cf. Eph. 2:19). “Christ created His Church, not beside Israel, but as the faithful remnant of Israel that inherits the covenant promises and responsibilities. Christ’s Church is not separated from the Israel of God, only from the Christ-rejecting Jewish nation.”

The identification of the Church with Israel is explicit in Peter’s first epistle: “But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God....” (1 Pet. 2:9). Here, Peter definitively states that those who “believe” in Christ Jesus (1 Pet. 2:7) were the “chosen race” and the “holy nation” (1 Pet. 2:9; compare Ex. 19:6; Deut. 7:6; and 14:2). “Only in Christ could Israel as a nation have remained the true covenant people of God.” God’s covenant people are no longer distinguished by racial or territorial characteristics, but exclusively by their faith in Christ. And the land we have inherited is a spiritual one. The spiritual blessings of citizenship in the Israel of God are ours as Christians, but what of the “unconditional” land promises of the so-called “Palestinian Covenant”?

There is no more “Jew” and “Gentile” racial distinctions. All nations are now a part of Spiritual Israel in Christ. Christ’s kingdom is here now in fullness. All (who were a part of the true spiritual) Israel were saved and given the inheritance (Rom. 11:26).

- Kenneth J Davies