The Parable of the Wedding Feast

[Glass*Soul]

A letter cannot contain a narrative?

Matthew is writing to Christians and it was copied and carried all over, but it was not thought of as being a book or part of a book, but a general letter to lots of people.
I might have conveyed that idea, but nonbelievers can figure some of the parables out especially when the parable was directed at them (Like the Pharisees figured out several times Jesus was talking about them, while I do not think others picked up on what Jesus was saying.



God has allowed/made the world to be the way it is to help willing individuals fulfill their earthly objective and this unpleasant world is the best it can be to help willing individuals.




God allowed His wonderful totally innocent son to be tortured, humiliated and murdered by wicked people to help willing individuals fulfill their objective. God will also allow wicked unwilling people that He has done as much as possible to help, to be tortured and killed to help willing individuals fulfill their earthly objectives. There were some innocent children in Jerusalem when the gates were closed, but they were probably killed quickly by the wicked (this shows how wicked they really were), which would have been a merciful end for the innocent. Like I said: “Death is not a bad thing.” I am sure the few Christians left in Jerusalem did try, up to the closing of the gates, to persuade their Jewish friend to join them.
To help understand this you need to look at “the parable of the rich man and Lazarus”.[/
Luke 16 19 "There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried
23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’
25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony
Lazarus was an innocent person and yet in lived in pain and died a cruel death. Lazarus was providing an easy daily opportunity for the rich man to experience true Godly type Love by showing mercy, but he never did. Lazarus never tries to steal from the rich man or cures God for his situation but did his “job” while here on earth providing the best opportunity for the rich man. God did make it up to Lazarus in the end by giving him an exalted place in heaven.
It would have been better for Lazarus and the rich man if the rich man turned to help Lazarus. What more could God have done to help the rich man?
Lazarus is like the innocent in Jerusalem when the gates were closed.

How bad is sin?

How long do you have?

Is it worth considering the alternatives?

Will God protect the lives of the innocent in this life if their death would help others?

I will not consider the alternative of collaborating with a Gospel of Merciless Destruction. I will not wear those garments.

 

[Glass*Soul]

Does god just default to carrying out his plans as violently as possible?

Is the whole idea to get some goodies from the Big Bad Guy?

 

[bling]

I will not consider the alternative of collaborating with a Gospel of Merciless Destruction. I will not wear those garments.

Please do not blame God, it is totally my fault. I am the one, who needed a world full of tragedies in order to see/experience/respond to/grow Godly type Love. If I ceased the opportunities around me, there would not be the need for so many opportunities.

 

[Glass*Soul]

Please do not blame God, it is totally my fault. I am the one, who needed a world full of tragedies in order to see/experience/respond to/grow Godly type Love. If I ceased the opportunities around me, there would not be the need for so many opportunities.

My rhetoric came out of sorrow in those last two replies.

Do not blame yourself for the tragedies of the world. I would be very sad indeed if I were to play a role in leaving you feeling responsible for sorrows that you did not directly cause. We all cause some sorrows, of course, but within a limited measure--within a human measure.

If we are wise we create some meaning out of life's tragedies--those we have caused, those that have caught us up, and those we have merely witnessed. The meaning comes after the tragedy. This is a very important point. Innocents don't die so that we can learn to love. We learn to love because we are touched so deeply by the death of innocents. It is a part of the human condition to make meaning. It is a part of what marks us as self-conscious beings. If we can grasp some tiny little bit of good in the midst of tragedies, that is hopeful. That is good. To turn it around and say that the tragedy has occurred so that we can grasp some little bit of good threatens to lessen us, to make us at least seem callous, and if we are theists to make our God seem callous.

I don't blame God because I cannot. I do not believe in God. But I know that you do and that many other good people do. I am simply challenging you to to imagine a God who can say to Jonah at the end of his adventures:

“Is it right for you to be angry about the plant?”
“It is,” he said. “And I’m so angry I wish I were dead.” But the Lord said, “You have been concerned about this plant, though you did not tend it or make it grow. It sprang up overnight and died overnight. And should I not have concern for the great city of Nineveh, in which there are more than a hundred and twenty thousand people who cannot tell their right hand from their left—and also many animals?”

The God who can say this is not a God who would waste pregnant women and nursing mothers with their babies on their hips as if they were used Kleenex's for the sake of the destruction of some paperwork that he could destroy as handily and bloodlessly as he destroyed the curtain before the Holy of Holies at Jesus' death. It is a human trait to say that despite the pure horror of the deaths in Jerusalem that at least the early church used the circumstances to put away an enmity between its Jewish and Gentile members. That sheds some light on a darkness. A very little light on a very great darkness. But it is something and we cling to it as we should.



Seize every opportunity this world offers you to grow and become your best self, but do not darken your life by imagining that the sorrows you encounter are of your making simply because you have failed to be perfect and require more instruction. Know when you are at fault and when you are not.

“Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothes? Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life?
“And why do you worry about clothes? See how the flowers of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you—you of little faith? So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

It is from Matthew 6 (which I imagine you already know). Read the whole chapter. It is a bold challenge to re-imagine God. It is one of the passages that keeps me lurking on the edges of Christianity. These are garments I would willingly wear--those so generously and unconditionally given that even the humblest grass of the field unknowingly wears them.



Do not fret.

 

[bling]

My rhetoric came out of sorrow in those last two replies.

Do not blame yourself for the tragedies of the world. I would be very sad indeed if I were to play a role in leaving you feeling responsible for sorrows that you did not directly cause. We all cause some sorrows, of course, but within a limited measure--within a human measure.

If we are wise we create some meaning out of life's tragedies--those we have caused, those that have caught us up, and those we have merely witnessed. The meaning comes after the tragedy. This is a very important point. Innocents don't die so that we can learn to love. We learn to love because we are touched so deeply by the death of innocents. It is a part of the human condition to make meaning. It is a part of what marks us as self-conscious beings. If we can grasp some tiny little bit of good in the midst of tragedies, that is hopeful. That is good. To turn it around and say that the tragedy has occurred so that we can grasp some little bit of good threatens to lessen us, to make us at least seem callous, and if we are theists to make our God seem callous.

I don't blame God because I cannot. I do not believe in God. But I know that you do and that many other good people do. I am simply challenging you to to imagine a God who can say to Jonah at the end of his adventures:




The God who can say this is not a God who would waste pregnant women and nursing mothers with their babies on their hips as if they were used Kleenex's for the sake of the destruction of some paperwork that he could destroy as handily and bloodlessly as he destroyed the curtain before the Holy of Holies at Jesus' death. It is a human trait to say that despite the pure horror of the deaths in Jerusalem that at least the early church used the circumstances to put away an enmity between its Jewish and Gentile members. That sheds some light on a darkness. A very little light on a very great darkness. But it is something and we cling to it as we should.

A lot of what you say I agree with, but from a Christian perspective.

Yes, we do try and look at every tragedy and explain it away, which is human nature.

You mention the story of Jonah which is a wonderful analogy, but we might have a different take on the tragedy and Love being shown. The story of Jonah is about Jonah and not Nineveh. God is always working on an individual level that can affect nations, even today. Jonah has the problem, God is working on and look at all God does to help solve Jonah’s problem (the loving of his neighbors [Nineveh]). Other prophets at the time may have already gone to Nineveh, but Jonah is the one needing to have the opportunity to initiate the change. We do not know if the tragedy was avoided or not since we do not know in the end if Jonah repented and felt Love for the innocent of Nineveh.

Seize every opportunity this world offers you to grow and become your best self, but do not darken your life by imagining that the sorrows you encounter are of your making simply because you have failed to be perfect and require more instruction. Know when you are at fault and when you are not.

What keeps me from being caught up in the tragedies of this life is the fact God has forgiven me. The “tragedies” I have directly caused actually become assets for me since I can use them in my witness to show people the huge change God has made in my life.

It is from Matthew 6 (which I imagine you already know). Read the whole chapter. It is a bold challenge to re-imagine God. It is one of the passages that keeps me lurking on the edges of Christianity. These are garments I would willingly wear--those so generously and unconditionally given that even the humblest grass of the field unknowingly wears them.



Do not fret.

Who do you think “frets” the most over: “what am I going to wear”, “where are we going to eat supper”, “which wine goes best with this meal”, and “what are we going to watch on TV”?

I worked with an amazing group of true Christians in prison and they never wondered what they were going to wear (that orange overalls is all they had), they knew what they would be eating and drinking everyday for the next month, and they did not waste time watching TV. They did not “fret” the small stuff.

 

[Glass*Soul]

I worked with an amazing group of true Christians in prison and they never wondered what they were going to wear (that orange overalls is all they had), they knew what they would be eating and drinking everyday for the next month, and they did not waste time watching TV. They did not “fret” the small stuff.

Another good reason to visit prisoners.

What I like best about the parable of the Sheep and goats in Matthew 25 is that it is not only Christ to help, heal and provide. It is mystically Christ to be in need.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Glass*Soul,

Everything that God does serves a single purpose: the restitution of all things. Once this is understood everything else falls into place.

 

[Glass*Soul]

Glass*Soul,

Everything that God does serves a single purpose: the restitution of all things. Once this is understood everything else falls into place.

I have no argument with that, as long as the goal does not justify evil means. As human beings, we've had a belly full of that, I think. If the Gospel offers us no alternative, then we don't need it. It would simply be more of what we have only bigger and more tragic. If, as Job intuited, the Judge himself is unjust, to whom do we turn? Who can place his hand on our shoulders and on the shoulder of an implacable absolute and make intercession? Unless there is that intercessor, there is no further hope.

 

[Glass*Soul]

I'm interested in continuing to discuss the parable of the wedding feast. However, in order to go on making my point I need to turn to another parable--one that I think even more clearly demonstrates that the king or ruler in Jesus' parables does not always necessarily represent God and that we must look to textual and historical clues to determine who that character represents in each case. It's a meaty parable and I think it deserves its own topic. Once I post the OP, I'll link it here.

OK here is the link: http://www.christianforums.com/t7680078/#post61167464

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I have no argument with that, as long as the goal does not justify evil means. As human beings, we've had a belly full of that, I think. If the Gospel offers us no alternative, then we don't need it. It would simply be more of what we have only bigger and more tragic. If, as Job intuited, the Judge himself is unjust, to whom do we turn? Who can place his hand on our shoulders and on the shoulder of an implacable absolute and make intercession? Unless there is that intercessor, there is no further hope.

You, as do many others, object to what you perceive as unacceptable cruelty, or evil, by God. God does kill people, not out of cruelty, but righteous anger. He brings 'calamity' upon his enemies, not evil cruelty.

In the parable the Jews are the focus of God's (the King) anger. They were already under a curse but were being given a chance to return to God's favor by accepting his son, Jesus Christ. Of course they refused, killed his son, persecuted the church, which led to their deaths and the burning of Jerusalem by the Romans.

It should be noted that the Jews continued to be under God's curse, thus the (second) 'diaspora' ("I will scatterer you"..), and the persecution ("I will draw out the sword after you"...) which of course led to the holocaust.

The third element of the curse is the reviling, or hatred, of the Jews by the nations. So they would be scattered, reviled, and persecuted until such time that they repent. They have not repented thus far.

So the parable of the wedding feast is but one of many stories that must be knit together for understanding. Part of the 'restitution' of all things is the gathering of Israel, the tribe of Judah being the most wayward and thus the focus of God's anger.

 

[Glass*Soul]

You, as do many others, object to what you perceive as unacceptable cruelty, or evil, by God. God does kill people, not out of cruelty, but righteous anger. He brings 'calamity' upon his enemies, not evil cruelty.

In the parable the Jews are the focus of God's (the King) anger. They were already under a curse but were being given a chance to return to God's favor by accepting his son, Jesus Christ. Of course they refused, killed his son, persecuted the church, which led to their deaths and the burning of Jerusalem by the Romans.

It should be noted that the Jews continued to be under God's curse, thus the (second) 'diaspora' ("I will scatterer you"..), and the persecution ("I will draw out the sword after you"...) which of course led to the holocaust.

The third element of the curse is the reviling, or hatred, of the Jews by the nations. So they would be scattered, reviled, and persecuted until such time that they repent. They have not repented thus far.

So the parable of the wedding feast is but one of many stories that must be knit together for understanding. Part of the 'restitution' of all things is the gathering of Israel, the tribe of Judah being the most wayward and thus the focus of God's anger.

Wow. That was incredibly anti-Semitic.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Wow. That was incredibly anti-Semitic.

It might seem so to some. Blacks are still under the 'curse of Canaan', and the 'Canaanite' curse. These are not anti-Semitic or racist statements, but fulfilled prophecies supported by observable facts.

 

[Glass*Soul]

It might seem so to some. Blacks are still under the 'curse of Canaan', and the 'Canaanite' curse. These are not anti-Semitic or racist statements, but fulfilled prophecies supported by observable facts.

Well, you just outdid yourself.