The order of events in one's salvation.("ordo salutis")

[-57]

What is the order ("ordo salutis") of events in one's salvation?

Does it go faith, repentance, regeneration, belief, justification, sanctification...

Or does it go regeneration, justification, faith, repentance sanctification...

How does it fit with Romans 8:29For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;30and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified

Do any of the events pertaining to salvation happen simultaneously?

Thoughts?

 

[nobdysfool]

Temporally, they happen simultaneously or nearly so, but when we're talking of the ordo salutis, we are speaking of the LOGICAL order of events, a concept which many seem to not be able to grasp.

I have been involved in these kinds of discussions ever since I started posting here in 2003. The "I can't understand logic" crowd will never be convinced, until they are in heaven (assuming that's their destination).

They hate Calvinism because it robs them of their "Jesus saved me, an' I helped!" Shake-n-Bake theology. It also robs them of their warm and fuzzy view of God as a kindly old grandfather who wouldn't hurt anyone. They hate having the inconsistencies in their theology pointed out. Instead of doing the hard thing and changing their theology, they transfer the hate to Calvinists, as has often been seen here. some mask the hatred more than others, but the non-0calvinists here clearly hate the Doctrines of Grace, because they are humbling, and lift God up and put man in his rightful place.

 

[-57]

I ask that this thread not be turned into a "Calvinism" debate but rather a discussion of the "ordo salutis".

To add to post 1....I left out baptism. I personally don't believe baptism is a requirement for salvation but I do understand some people do. Where would that be in the "ordo salutis"?

 

[sdowney717]

Since we are justified by Grace and also Faith in Jesus Christ, Grace and Faith precede being Justified by God.
Romans 3:24
being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,

Romans 3:28
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.

Repentance must come before salvation
2 Corinthians 7:10
For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death.

So then,

1. Grace-Love for His elect whom He foreknew ( not what He foreknew they did)
2. Regeneration
3. Repentance
4. Faith
5. Justification
6. Sanctification
7. Glorification

 

[sdowney717]

I ask that this thread not be turned into a "Calvinism" debate but rather a discussion of the "ordo salutis".

To add to post 1....I left out baptism. I personally don't believe baptism is a requirement for salvation but I do understand some people do. Where would that be in the "ordo salutis"?

Baptism would come after Faith - Belief, and baptism does not save you is true as you said.

 

[ZacharyB]

What is the order ("ordo salutis") of events in one's salvation? Thoughts?

My thoughts are ...
God's gift of faith (but not the super-powerful one in 1 Cor 12)
Belief
Repentance
Regeneration
Justification
Righteousness
Sanctification (positional, set apart)
... then, hopefully and successfully:
Sanctification (process, unto holiness).

This last one depends on the believer's free-will:
-- to endure in his faith until the end of life
-- to co-operate with the Holy Spirit re: obedience, etc.

 

[-57]

Since we are justified by Grace and also Faith in Jesus Christ, Grace and Faith precede being Justified by God.
Romans 3:24
being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,

Romans 3:28
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.

Repentance must come before salvation
2 Corinthians 7:10
For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death.

So then,

1. Grace-Love for His elect whom He foreknew ( not what He foreknew they did)
2. Regeneration
3. Repentance
4. Faith
5. Justification
6. Sanctification
7. Glorification

 

[-57]

Since we are justified by Grace and also Faith in Jesus Christ, Grace and Faith precede being Justified by God.
Romans 3:24
being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,

Romans 3:28
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.

Repentance must come before salvation
2 Corinthians 7:10
For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death.

So then,

1. Grace-Love for His elect whom He foreknew ( not what He foreknew they did)
2. Regeneration
3. Repentance
4. Faith
5. Justification
6. Sanctification
7. Glorification

sdowney717,
Thanks for the reply.
"Term issue" Can you describe repentance. Is it turning from your sin...something we completely never do....or is it turning from trying to save yourself and letting God save you? Or something else in your view?

 

[Isaiah55:6]

Since we are justified by Grace and also Faith in Jesus Christ, Grace and Faith precede being Justified by God.
Romans 3:24
being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,

Romans 3:28
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.

Repentance must come before salvation
2 Corinthians 7:10
For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death.

So then,

1. Grace-Love for His elect whom He foreknew ( not what He foreknew they did)
2. Regeneration
3. Repentance
4. Faith
5. Justification
6. Sanctification
7. Glorification

I fully agree with this. The best analogy I've ever heard is in terms of a lightbulb. In order for light to be present you first need electricity. With out first having electricity there won't be light. For light is the result of the electricity. In the same way we must first be regenerated before faith and repentance can occur.

 

[-57]

My thoughts are ...
God's gift of faith (but not the super-powerful one in 1 Cor 12)
Belief
Repentance
Regeneration
Justification
Righteousness
Sanctification (positional, set apart)
... then, hopefully and successfully:
Sanctification (process, unto holiness).

This last one depends on the believer's free-will:
-- to endure in his faith until the end of life
-- to co-operate with the Holy Spirit re: obedience, etc.

Not knowing exactly where you're coming from....where does the endure to the end come from?

 

[-57]

Lets add Christ righteousness to the list....when is Christ righteousness imputed to the believers?

 

[nobdysfool]

Lets add Christ righteousness to the list....when is Christ righteousness imputed to the believers?

At the point of justification.

 

[sdowney717]

sdowney717,
Thanks for the reply.
"Term issue" Can you describe repentance. Is it turning from your sin...something we completely never do....or is it turning from trying to save yourself and letting God save you? Or something else in your view?

Jesus says this here
Luke 24
46 Then He said to them, “Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day,
47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Repentance is a rending of your heart towards God, a coming to Him in humility and appreciation for His love for what He has done for you to save you from your sins.
It is seeking after God, acknowledging your errors and sins to Him. Repentance is also understanding that God will forgive you your sins and cleanse you from all unrighteousness, so it is no worldly sorrow of no hope which results in death. Godly repentance is a gift from God that allows you to repent, believe and be saved.

God works-grants to and in you a godly repentance for you to be forgiven your sins,

Acts 5:31
Him God has exalted to His right hand to be Prince and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.

Acts 11:18
When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, “Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life.”

People who are faithless do not demonstrate repentance towards God, not believing in God's promises means you need to repent of your unbelief. There is a lot more to repentance than just some formula. People who do not bear good fruit to God do not show they have repented.
As John and Paul teach, they need to bear fruits worthy of repentance.
Good fruits as not just good works, they are the fruits of the Holy Spirit shining out from the inside of those who are saved. Faithfulness is just one fruit. Love, joy peace patience kindness goodness gentleness faithfulness self-control are all fruits shown in the life of persons who demonstrate their repentance.

 

[ZacharyB]

Not knowing exactly where you're coming from....where does the endure to the end come from?

In only about 8 verses in the NT.

Righteousness is in my list.

 

[Gary the Kid]

First walk up to the living Blood and living Water flowing from the side of Jesus. Mark yourself with the Blood and wash your self with the water. Then go to the Open Temple Mark 15:38. Then you walk in.............end of story. Onto the Father then you will be. Don't believe me. Try to enter on your own educated accord...............won't happen.........won't even see that the Temple is open............no way..........

 

[ToBeLoved]

1. Grace-Love for His elect whom He foreknew ( not what He foreknew they did)
2. Regeneration
3. Repentance
4. Faith
5. Justification
6. Sanctification
7. Glorification

The BIG problemo with your little scenario is that "God so loved the world" and "died for the sins of ALL mankind"

So, grace is open to all.

His love has always been for all.

And Calvinism and this elect thingy is straight up nonesense.

Then the other question is how can one repent without faith? Who are you repenting to, someone that you have no belief or faith in?

 

[ToBeLoved]

Since we are justified by Grace and also Faith in Jesus Christ, Grace and Faith precede being Justified by God.

Grace is not something that we do. Grace is what God has done in dying for all of our sins. Loving us before we loved Him. Giving us the ability to come to Him in faith.

Grace = unmerited favor

 

[ToBeLoved]

Since we are justified by Grace and also Faith in Jesus Christ, Grace and Faith precede being Justified by God.
Romans 3:24
being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,

Romans 3:28
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.

Repentance must come before salvation
2 Corinthians 7:10
For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death.

So then,

1. Grace-Love for His elect whom He foreknew ( not what He foreknew they did)
2. Regeneration
3. Repentance
4. Faith
5. Justification
6. Sanctification
7. Glorification

I would describe it this way.

God always loved us, His creation. I do not think that there is a time when His love started or anytime that His love would end.
Grace is the Father sending His Son to die and pay the penalty of sin for the world, so through Jesus Christ we can be once again reconciled back to God. That grace is a free gift and unmerited favor towards us, who do not deserve it.

Faith in the person of Jesus Christ, being both fully God and man, living a perfect life yet dying and taking all sin upon Himself for the propitiation of all sin-debt that was needed to conquer sin.
Regeneration in Romans 5, 6, 7
Justification that Jesus Christ, the only righteous one has imputed His righteousness upon us, making us righteous through Him.
Sanctification living our lives to become more like Jesus. Living in relationship with Him and through the conviction of the indwelling Holy Spirit living to become more like our Lord, Jesus Christ.

Glorification is what I believe we will have when we receive our full inheritance in Jesus Christ. Our new spiritual bodies after death from this world and when we enter heaven to live eternally with Him.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

#1. God's Gift of Saving Grace (Jesus's death, burial, resurrection, and ascension).
(For God so loved the world, He gave his gift of grace freely to all people even though God knows that not all will accept it).

#2. Faith or Belief in God's Word & His plan of Salvation (That Jesus died & was risen to save us).
(The Receiving of God's Word is also known as being "Born by Water" or being born by the incorruptible Word, or the Receiving the Seed of the Word into your Heart).

#3. Repentance (Admitting your a sinner; Or seek to be forgiven of your sins with Jesus by prayer with a Godly sorrow).
(See "Side Note 1" below).

#4. Receiving of God's Mercy for Your Past Sins (Titus 3:5).

#5. Regeneration by the Holy Ghost (Titus 3:5).
(Born by the Spirit, i.e. to be born again).

#6. Justification, Initial Salvation, and the Receiving of Jesus Christ into your Heart.

#7. Receiving of the Holy Ghost.

#8. Fruits of Repentance or Sanctification
(Holiness, good works, obedience to God's Commands in the New Testament that God works thru the Believer when they surrender to Him).

#9. Glorification.
(The Lord takes the Believer home to be with Him either by them dying physically or by them being taken up in the upcoming Pre-Trib Rapture).

Side Note 1:

There are exceptions to Number 3 above (i.e. Repentance). John 1:12 says that one can be born of God by simply believing on the Lord's name so as to be saved. Well, there are many possibilities for this (even alluded to in Scripture), one such possiblity for John 1:12 are for those people who live in remote tribes or jungles whose language is primitive or limited. They may not understand forgiveness, but they may understand the need for a Savior over their sinful condition. In addition, I believe babies are automatically saved by God's grace. So salvation is obviously different for them, as well.

Side Note 2:

I also believe the Bible is clear that "baptism" is not done for salvation but it is a public declaration or symbol of one's faith. Granted, I believe baptism is important and I highly encourage that every true believer do so (as I have done).


...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

God foreknowing, Predestining (or Choosing) His Elect had taken place before the Foundation of the World. God knew who these Elect people are and how they would believe in Him of their own free will and endure in their faith to the End. The Lamb was also planned on being slain before the Foundation of the World, too (Which is how God could have any Elected or Chosen people). But God's Foreknoweldge and Predestination of His Elect Believers obviously took place long before #1 on my list above.

Romans 8 is talking about the Elect and their Calling, etc. But, that does not mean God does not Call everyone, though. For the Lord our God "Calls" all men to be saved. For God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. The Scriptures also say that Christ draws all men unto Himself, too. Anyways, this "Calling" takes place inbetween #1-#2 (On my list above).

But being "Called" does not automatically mean you are of the saved, though. For the Scriptures say, many are called, but few are chosen (Matthew 22:14).

Side Note:

As for the Old Testament Saint:

I do not believe salvation was all that much different for the OT saint. Granted, besides Abraham, most did not know about Jesus and His day. So they did not know who Jesus was. But the OT saint looked to the Messiah to one day take away their sin for good, though. The OT saint also repented of their sins and called out to God for salvation. The OT saint was also regenerated spiritually and God lived within them so as to keep His Commandments that was a part of the Old Covenant (See Ezekiel 36:26-27).


....