The opposite of Love and can hate be a good thing?

razzelflabben

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thank you for your post. its not a core belief we are debating so you should be fine here.

I have not found anger come from pride at least with me. I get angry because i am hurt. Its either cry or get angry. pride has to do with the ego, the ego is the enemy of God.

We studied the Hebrew in class about Esau the word love is closer to accept and word hate is reject. Esau was rejected because he cared nothing for his birth right, he also had a big ego.
yep...let me point out one thing...in Biblical Love, the core, or spoke if you will where Love flows from, is humility. that being true, the opposite is pride, notice even in I Cor. 13 where we see the characteristics of Love, Love does not think of itself (humility). There are other characteristics listed that take us back to humility as well, but that one is pretty bold. We also know this about biblical love....Phil. 2:3; Romans 12:10; I Peter 3:8 to name a few.

Thanks for the warm welcome, there are only a few minor differences as I can tell from the Baptist to the Brethren beliefs, probably no more than between the Brethren and the non denominational I grew up in.
 
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98cwitr

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where do you get that from, I said reject, why do you love evil?

Because per the definition you posted hate is also defined as "to love less." If I reject something, can I still have any sort of emotion of feeling for it? Rejection seems to be the product/result of hating something: I hate X, therefore I reject X. I reject X because I am indifferent towards X. How do these two statements compare and contrast?
 
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98cwitr

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:confused: It appears you are applying the worlds definition here which is confusing if we are talking about the Biblical definition for Love. IOW's the above statements seem to be saying "a strong emotional connection to" which is a decent worldly definition of Love. But Biblically, Love is much more than an emotion, it is also an action and an attitude and much more. So how would I have a strong, favorable action toward pride or indifference? how about an attitude?

Love in the bible is always toward someone, whereas your comment is geared toward something...thus making it two different meanings of love.

Let's further apply some of the characteristics of Love to your comments above...I Cor. 13...Love is patient, how can we be patient with pride or indifference? Love is kind, love does not think of itself....see, the characteristics of Love listed in I Cor. 13 don't apply either, which is further evidence there is a problem with our understanding of love.

My attestation refers to love in the Biblical sense, simply as a conclusion :)
 
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razzelflabben

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My attestation refers to love in the Biblical sense, simply as a conclusion :)
:confused: so your comment about the opposite of love being hate and indifference by comparing love and hate to things like pride is attestation of Biblical Love that is always directed at someone, not something like pride....how is that exactly?

No matter what your conclusions are, your post compares apples to oranges and that simple isn't a good way to discover the truth of anything much less the bible.
 
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JLR1300

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Obviously when Jesus told us to hate our parents and siblings He was doing what He does all the time in the Synoptics... (Matthew Mark Luke) He was using hyperbole. (exaggerating) to make a point. He wasn't really wanting us to hate our family but rather He was demanding that those who believe in Him must begin to serve Him faithfully and to put Him above all others including family. Any truly born again person will be willing to do this and anyone who consistently refuses to do this possibly shows himself to be unregenerate.

(sorry I didn't notice that there were other pages so this response is not interjected into the conversation at the correct point thus making it either irrelevant or bothersome.)
 
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Bluelion

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yep...let me point out one thing...in Biblical Love, the core, or spoke if you will where Love flows from, is humility. that being true, the opposite is pride, notice even in I Cor. 13 where we see the characteristics of Love, Love does not think of itself (humility). There are other characteristics listed that take us back to humility as well, but that one is pretty bold. We also know this about biblical love....Phil. 2:3; Romans 12:10; I Peter 3:8 to name a few.

Thanks for the warm welcome, there are only a few minor differences as I can tell from the Baptist to the Brethren beliefs, probably no more than between the Brethren and the non denominational I grew up in.

Very good points, but would the opposite of humility be pride or arrogance?
 
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Bluelion

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Because per the definition you posted hate is also defined as "to love less." If I reject something, can I still have any sort of emotion of feeling for it? Rejection seems to be the product/result of hating something: I hate X, therefore I reject X. I reject X because I am indifferent towards X. How do these two statements compare and contrast?

Tell me again the good qualities of hate?

If you hate something you don't reject it it is an obsession, it is a focal point if you hate it. To reject something would be to forsake turn away from never to return, cast out, not think about put out of mind. if you hate something it is not out of mind now is. Maybe God wants us to not have evil as a focal point, to put it out of mind and focus on Good.


If I am indifferent I am neither cold nor hot am I? I am not on one side or thee other, I would be luke warm no? if I love and God is Love 1 john 4:8 then love is good because God is good the oppsite of good is evil no? or are you going to say luke warm?
 
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Bluelion

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Obviously when Jesus told us to hate our parents and siblings He was doing what He does all the time in the Synoptics... (Matthew Mark Luke) He was using hyperbole. (exaggerating) to make a point. He wasn't really wanting us to hate our family but rather He was demanding that those who believe in Him must begin to serve Him faithfully and to put Him above all others including family. Any truly born again person will be willing to do this and anyone who consistently refuses to do this possibly shows himself to be unregenerate.

(sorry I didn't notice that there were other pages so this response is not interjected into the conversation at the correct point thus making it either irrelevant or bothersome.)

accuracy it is on topic, what you are saying is just because the word hate is used it is not telling us to hate, and that is the point i have been pointing at.
 
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razzelflabben

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Very good points, but would the opposite of humility be pride or arrogance?
arrogance is a form of pride so it could be said both, however, as I understand pride and arrogance, arrogance is only an extreme form of pride, so I would still go with pride, any degree. Further consider what scripture tells us about pride...God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble....

I think a lot of people don't understand pride, so let me also say this. CS Lewis defines pride about as well as anyone I have heard, when he says, humility is not thinking less of yourself, but thinking of yourself less. This understanding fits with scripture as well, especially when we consider that Love which is rooted in humility, is putting another above yourself in an act of humility creating a covenant whose intent/purpose is reconciliation/restoration. Some passages say it like this..."Love as yourself" or "your own body".
 
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Bluelion

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arrogance is a form of pride so it could be said both, however, as I understand pride and arrogance, arrogance is only an extreme form of pride, so I would still go with pride, any degree. Further consider what scripture tells us about pride...God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble....

I think a lot of people don't understand pride, so let me also say this. CS Lewis defines pride about as well as anyone I have heard, when he says, humility is not thinking less of yourself, but thinking of yourself less. This understanding fits with scripture as well, especially when we consider that Love which is rooted in humility, is putting another above yourself in an act of humility creating a covenant whose intent/purpose is reconciliation/restoration. Some passages say it like this..."Love as yourself" or "your own body".

Yeah very interesting. I think we all struggle with pride at some point. God does work against the prideful, and proverbs says pride and arrogance before a great fall. I guess this is our cross, the things we battle daily.
 
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razzelflabben

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Yeah very interesting. I think we all struggle with pride at some point. God does work against the prideful, and proverbs says pride and arrogance before a great fall. I guess this is our cross, the things we battle daily.
In my quest to understand Biblical Love better, the issue of pride/humility has come up a great deal and it is little wonder given that it is the core of Love. There were two specific times my own pride was challenged to uncomfortable levels...let me just give you the quick version so that you can see what I am talking about, as in degree of humility we are asked to have in our becoming Christ like.

One Sat. night, I was sick in bed with lung spasms. (painful, draining, etc.) In fact, when I have lung spasms, I try not to move at all. Got a phone call from someone I have been mentoring for a couple of years now. Her daughter who had been wayward, wanted to come to church and sit with us. Now I wasn't going to go to church because of the lung spasms, but humility/Love puts that teen girls needs above my own, so the challenge for humility/pride was whether or not I was going to put myself through the agony of going so she felt comfortable with someone to sit with, or whether I was going to stay home, sick in bed. Most of us make excuses for our pride especially when it comes to things like food or health. Our own son faced this one day when he shared all that he had with a homeless kid and ended up not eating for 3 days because this kid needed food, needed help, needed Love. There can be NO excuses if our comparison is the humility of Christ.

Another time was when someone said something very hurtful and damaging to me. I was angry with a righteous anger. What was said was way out of line, in fact, it isn't the first time something like that has happened. When people spread rumors, gossip, slander, lies about you, especially when they bring up memories of the abuse you have been asked to live through, anger can prevail and it is an anger that is shared by God. But, humility dictates, that angry with a righteous anger or not, we share their pain before we even think about delving into our own, licking our wounds like the abused. Consider Christ, if anyone had a right to righteous anger, to licking His own wounds before Loving others, if anyone had the right to take care of Himself before Loving with the humility that marked His call to all people, it was Christ. But what did He do instead? He prayed that His will would become the will of the Father, then willingly gave HIs life that we, the object of God's wrath and anger, might live. That is the humility we are called to have when we are commanded to Love. It's a humility that is totally foreign to man, who is taught from birth to "look out for number one". Maybe, that is why Gal. tells us that Love is a fruit of the Spirit and not a fruit of man?
 
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98cwitr

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Tell me again the good qualities of hate?

If you hate something you don't reject it it is an obsession, it is a focal point if you hate it. To reject something would be to forsake turn away from never to return, cast out, not think about put out of mind. if you hate something it is not out of mind now is. Maybe God wants us to not have evil as a focal point, to put it out of mind and focus on Good.


If I am indifferent I am neither cold nor hot am I? I am not on one side or thee other, I would be luke warm no? if I love and God is Love 1 john 4:8 then love is good because God is good the oppsite of good is evil no? or are you going to say luke warm?

So would you say that to reject is to become indifferent toward?

Good qualities of hate are that if you hate bad things, you will naturally love good things. Right?

Luke warm is just a form of evil in my mind. Anything falling short of God is sin and sin is evil. Whole lot more evil than good in the world!
 
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razzelflabben

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Good qualities of hate are that if you hate bad things, you will naturally love good things. Right?
if you hate bad things couldn't you be indifferent to good things? or couldn't you hate good and bad things and just be hateful to everything? How does it stand to reason that just because I hate bad things I would automatically love good things? I don't follow this reasoning.
 
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Bluelion

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In my quest to understand Biblical Love better, the issue of pride/humility has come up a great deal and it is little wonder given that it is the core of Love. There were two specific times my own pride was challenged to uncomfortable levels...let me just give you the quick version so that you can see what I am talking about, as in degree of humility we are asked to have in our becoming Christ like.

One Sat. night, I was sick in bed with lung spasms. (painful, draining, etc.) In fact, when I have lung spasms, I try not to move at all. Got a phone call from someone I have been mentoring for a couple of years now. Her daughter who had been wayward, wanted to come to church and sit with us. Now I wasn't going to go to church because of the lung spasms, but humility/Love puts that teen girls needs above my own, so the challenge for humility/pride was whether or not I was going to put myself through the agony of going so she felt comfortable with someone to sit with, or whether I was going to stay home, sick in bed. Most of us make excuses for our pride especially when it comes to things like food or health. Our own son faced this one day when he shared all that he had with a homeless kid and ended up not eating for 3 days because this kid needed food, needed help, needed Love. There can be NO excuses if our comparison is the humility of Christ.

Another time was when someone said something very hurtful and damaging to me. I was angry with a righteous anger. What was said was way out of line, in fact, it isn't the first time something like that has happened. When people spread rumors, gossip, slander, lies about you, especially when they bring up memories of the abuse you have been asked to live through, anger can prevail and it is an anger that is shared by God. But, humility dictates, that angry with a righteous anger or not, we share their pain before we even think about delving into our own, licking our wounds like the abused. Consider Christ, if anyone had a right to righteous anger, to licking His own wounds before Loving others, if anyone had the right to take care of Himself before Loving with the humility that marked His call to all people, it was Christ. But what did He do instead? He prayed that His will would become the will of the Father, then willingly gave His life that we, the object of God's wrath and anger, might live. That is the humility we are called to have when we are commanded to Love. It's a humility that is totally foreign to man, who is taught from birth to "look out for number one". Maybe, that is why Gal. tells us that Love is a fruit of the Spirit and not a fruit of man?

very interesting. I learned things the hard way, I had it all at one point, and thought I was humble as I had trained martial arts, but I realize this was humbleness of man and not of God. I lost everything and I mean everything. I went through a time when I could not take care of my self. When things picked up I learned to let God take care of me. Every day I see how I am lacking in some way and every day I struggle not to do what everyone does build my ego up to feel good. God never said His ways were easy, Just they were best and perfect.
 
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Bluelion

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So would you say that to reject is to become indifferent toward?

Good qualities of hate are that if you hate bad things, you will naturally love good things. Right?

Luke warm is just a form of evil in my mind. Anything falling short of God is sin and sin is evil. Whole lot more evil than good in the world!

I don't think rejecting something makes you indifferent to it I think it makes you against it.

I don't think the spirit of hate produces love or anything good at all. I have never seen hate do one good thing, from hate comes murders, that is what hate does. Cain hated Abel and was Jealous. The world hates God and God's children. Sure doesn't seem like any good comes from hate.

Look at the crusades they hated evil look how much evil they did in God's name. How do you hate a evil man and love him at the same time?
 
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razzelflabben

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very interesting. I learned things the hard way, I had it all at one point, and thought I was humble as I had trained martial arts, but I realize this was humbleness of man and not of God. I lost everything and I mean everything. I went through a time when I could not take care of my self. When things picked up I learned to let God take care of me. Every day I see how I am lacking in some way and every day I struggle not to do what everyone does build my ego up to feel good. God never said His ways were easy, Just they were best and perfect.
amen....our measure is not other men, but the Christ who gave Himself that His enemies might live, not just live, but live in abundance and richness.
 
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Bluelion

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amen....our measure is not other men, but the Christ who gave Himself that His enemies might live, not just live, but live in abundance and richness.

The goal is to make God's ways our ways. This is what Jesus did as you said He prayed to do the Fathers will not His own.
 
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