The Nephilim...

[Mr_Hursh]

It is my understanding that the was once a race of giants on the earth - (Genesis 6:4 NIV) "The Nephilimwere on the earth in those days when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown."
So my question is, were the 'sons of God' fallen angels, and if so, what has prevented the Nephilim from appearing again and again throughout history? You would think that if they did it once they could do it again.


Also, there is a theory that the Nephilim were sent to pervert the true race of men, so that the Messiah could not come. The theory says that it was beacuse all men except Noah and his family were 'inter-bred', God sent the flood to destroy the earth to prevent further pervertion of the Human Race.
This seems plausible enough to me, but from what I see in the Genesis 6, that had no part in it.

What are your thoughts?

 

[rmwilliamsll]

this question comes up so often that i tried to start a FAQ at:
http://www.dakotacom.net/~rmwillia/nephilim.html

i think i got the various sides represented and captured a few dozen good webpages to read.

if you find more information that ought to be added to this, post here and i'll get it posted there.

 

[Willtor]

This has been interpreted a couple of different ways. One way is the view that "sons of God" are angels (possibly fallen angels) who have sex with human women and supernaturally impregnate them. The women give birth to giants who dominate the world around them. The other major interpretation is that the "sons of God" are the descendants of Seth, who remained true to God. They married into Cain's descendants, who were decidedly unbelieving, for the sake of political power (this is another possible translation of the Hebrew).

I tend towards the second interpretation since it directly relates to their exploits at heroism. In this case, "renown" cannot be understood to have positive connotations. This interpretation also has direct applicability to the Israelites, who were commanded not to marry outside of the nation. No doubt, some might have been tempted to marry the daughters of pagans in an effort to increase their wealth or power. Finally, there is direct application to us, as Christians, as it is the initial passage that calls into question our reasons for choosing mates.

It is certainly the case that the only other "choosing" of a wife that is explicitly discussed, this early in the Bible, is that of Adam and Eve. In Adam's case, his marriage to Eve was the will of God. This story shows the opposite case where men marry for their own purposes.

 

[Mr_Hursh]

But what about the giants? Where did they come from?

 

[KerrMetric]

But what about the giants? Where did they come from?

They didn't exist. Come on, 21st century now.

 

[nephilimiyr]

this question comes up so often that i tried to start a FAQ at:
http://www.dakotacom.net/%7Ermwillia/nephilim.html

i think i got the various sides represented and captured a few dozen good webpages to read.

if you find more information that ought to be added to this, post here and i'll get it posted there.

The only webpage you have that speaks the truth, The Companion Bible site, has been off line for several months now. Therain site was one that I had liked once before but the link on your page did not work. I have a few sites I could share.

http://www.michaelsheiser.com/
http://www.khouse.org/6640/BP052/
http://www.stevequayle.com/

 

[rmwilliamsll]

The only webpage you have that speaks the truth, The Companion Bible site, has been off line for several months now. Therain site was one that I had liked once before but the link on your page did not work. I have a few sites I could share.

http://www.michaelsheiser.com/
http://www.khouse.org/6640/BP052/
http://www.stevequayle.com/

rats to therain being off line. i didn't mirror it either, so i don't have a copy.

added your links to my faq. thanks.

 

[Willtor]

But what about the giants? Where did they come from?

It's all a question as to how Nephilim is translated. Even then, it's a question of how it's understood.

Here's a page I Googled: Who are the sons of God and the Nephilim?

It has a good outline of the various positions, but it doesn't discuss implications of any of them.

 

[jabechler]

But what about the giants? Where did they come from?

In Genesis 6:4 KJV " There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that......" This was written by Moses well after the flood and much degradation in humanity since the fall. I believe that Adam and eve where possibly 12-14 ft tall and in relation so were the animals and plant life. sin and meat eating brought a " de-evolution" of the physical and mental characteristics of the life on earth.

 

[Mr_Hursh]

It's possible. There is fossil evidence to suggest it. They find a ton of skeletons that are around 13 feet tall but it is always covered up or over looked.

 

[dad]

It is my understanding that the was once a race of giants on the earth - (Genesis 6:4 NIV) "The Nephilimwere on the earth in those days when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown."
So my question is, were the 'sons of God' fallen angels, and if so, what has prevented the Nephilim from appearing again and again throughout history? You would think that if they did it once they could do it again.


Also, there is a theory that the Nephilim were sent to pervert the true race of men, so that the Messiah could not come. The theory says that it was beacuse all men except Noah and his family were 'inter-bred', God sent the flood to destroy the earth to prevent further pervertion of the Human Race.
This seems plausible enough to me, but from what I see in the Genesis 6, that had no part in it.

What are your thoughts?

My thoughts are that the sons of God were angels. It was a time when the spiritual realm was very close. God made a coat of furs for Adam and Eve, for example a bit earlier. Also, the tower of Babel. They seemed to think the spiritual realm was real close. Sounds ridiculous now, our world is physical only. However then, apprently, there may have been a level that was spiritual much closer and real. The sons of God even married our girls, and had babies. That doesn't happen these days.
I think a big change happened in the fabric of the universe about that time, leaving us in this physical only part. That is why so much of the future (it will be reunited, in the new heavens coming, as these ones pass away) and past seems like fables now in the bible. WE wrongly assume (with NO proof) that the past and future is like our physical only present.

 

[notto]

It's possible. There is fossil evidence to suggest it. They find a ton of skeletons that are around 13 feet tall but it is always covered up or over looked.

What evidence have you used to uncover this conspiracy? How have you determined that they have found a 'ton' of skeletons that are aroudn 13 feet tall? I sure hope it isn't Hovind. His story is bogus.

 

[ChetSinger]

I also think the 'sons of God' in the OT were spiritual beings that we now call angels.

Job describes how they rejoiced when the earth was being created. Deuteronomy 32 describes how they were assigned as national 'guardian angels' when God divided up humanity after the Flood. And I think Psalm 82 describes God reading some of them the riot act after they messed up that job.

 

[Starcrystal]

There is a ton of online articles on the Nephs, and yes, they are angels, or ones that came down from heaven. Contrary to popular belief that they were & remained followers of Satan, actually they did leave heaven with satan but then did not want to follow him either so saw the earth and chose to establish a life on earth. In a sense they were in limbo, having rtejected God, then rejecting the one who caused the rebellion against God! Personally I believe some of them can be redeemed and their offspring redeemed as well, so long as they turn back to God....
Anyways, here's some links
http://www.mystae.com/restricted/streams/scripts/nephilim.html

http://www.returnofthenephilim.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nephilim

Actually what I believe is that like any sentient beings these have the capability for good or evil. Some did choose evil, especially in pre-flood days. But many of their offspring have chosen good paths and offspring that are mostly of human blood with ancestors that were of these Nephilim or Watchers are certainly not condemned to judgment because of their ancestors! That is where I tend to deviate from the most commonly held theories about the fate of these beings.

 

[dad]

There is a ton of online articles on the Nephs, and yes, they are angels, or ones that came down from heaven. Contrary to popular belief that they were & remained followers of Satan, ...

Why do you claim these sexy angels were satanists? I think that is ridiculous.

 

[Starcrystal]

Why do you claim these sexy angels were satanists? I think that is ridiculous.

Huh? I think you misunderstood what I wrote
I said that contrary to the popular belief (the belief held by many Christians) I do NOt think they are satanic followers of the devil. I think they followed satan out initially but then realized he was a jerk so they left him. In other words I think the poor 'sexy angels" as you call them ended up homeless so they came to earth. I cannot possible call them all bad... but many Christians claim they are all "demons" when in fact they are not demons at all.
I know some of those websites posted claim that the Nephilim will help usher in antichrist, are behind the UFO/alien abduction phenomenon, etc etc. Some of that may be true, but we cannot count all offspring of these angels to be bad, nor can we count all of the angels themselves to be bad...
A good example is found in the Book of Enoch where it said that 200 some odd angels bowed before God to repent and while God refused to grant them repentance at that time, he told them to pray for the people on earth.... now why would God tell someone to pray who had no hope of redemption, and why would they even bother to pray?
Also, WE will be able to judge angels according to the New Testement so I think God has set some things up that's end is not written in stone.
No, I don't think these angels will all be destroyed, I don't think their decendants are all bad, and I beleive some will be in paradise with the Lord.

So I agree with you, it is rediculous to say that those angels were satanists

 

[Starcrystal]

The Redemption of Angels

In ancient times a part of the angelic host fell from their estate in heaven; Watchers they were called. Among these a portion chose to marry amongst mortals and bore children by them. It is written in the book of the prophet Enoch that these angels were driven into the realm of seven stars, and that they would be bound upon earth; terrestrial spirits (15:10, 18:13 – 16) never to ascend to heaven. (14:5 - 6). It is written that these angels, the Watchers, took the secrets of heaven, things they themselves had not yet fully understood, and taught them to men (9:6 – 7, 10:6 – 8, 16:3). These were the secrets of magic, the working of energies and the knowledge of forces by will. The secrets of magic belonged to God from the beginning and the laws of the energies and knowledge of forces belongs to God.

It is written in the book of the prophet Enoch, the seventh from Adam who tread upon the young earth, that the angels who had left their abode in heaven to marry mortals did beg forgiveness with much weeping and in great dread of the doom pronounced upon them by God. (13:3, 4, 9 – 10). At that time Enoch moderated between God and angel, and the verdict was that pardon would not be granted to the Watchers, nor to their offspring, but that the spirit of their offspring would be evil spirits of the earth. (14:3 – 7, 15:8 – 10). But to the Watcher named Azazel was ascribed all sin (10:8 – 9), and the number of those who transgressed the commandment of the Lord was seven, and they were to be bound 10,000 years (21:3 – 7). Yet there were many more than seven that had taken wives among mortals. In all there were 200 angels that descended and swore together with their leaders to wed amongst mortals. (6:5 – 7).

It was told that the Watchers ought to pray for men and not men to pray for the Watchers. (15:2 – 3). Yet why would God tell angels to pray for men, angels who had been judged without pardon and their petition for forgiveness rejected? Could God truly expect these beings to pray unto the One who had delivered such a sentence? Or perhaps there was redemption if that sentence was to be eternal, and that redemption could be obtained by their supplications in time.

These events of which we now consider took place long before Yeshua the Christ was conceived of a mortal woman: the seed of God by Spirit and the seed of flesh by Mary the virgin. Yeshua was born to die for the sins of the world, and to redeem creation from the sin that man, not angel, had brought upon all creation. Yeshua was both flesh and Spirit, conceived by divine seed and not the seed of men. Were not the offspring of the angels also conceived of the seed of the inhabitants of heaven and thereby partly divine by nature?

Has Yeshua the Christ died for the entire world or only a part of it? This question is central in our consideration of the Watchers. Whosoever believeth in Christ should not perish, but have eternal life, for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life, for God sent not his son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through him might be saved. (John 3:15 – 17). Does not the scripture also tell us the whole creation groans and travails in pain together until now, and that the creature itself waits for the manifestation of the sons of God, and that the creature shall be delivered? (Romans 8:19 – 22). Ktisis, translated “creature” is defined as “creation, individual beings or creatures, anything that is created.” Ktisis is also the same word translated “creation” in Romans 8:22.

It is also written and accepted by most in the Christian church that the saints shall judge the world, and that the saints shall also judge angels. (1 Corinthians 6:2 – 3). These are not the saints chosen by men, but the saints that comprise of all the true children of God; anyone who believes and knows God on a personal level, not only as an abstract and disassociated entity.

Herein is a paradox: for God once passed judgment on the angels who sinned and refused to pardon them though they sought pardon with tears. But God told them to pray for men and not that men should pray for them. In the process of time God sent Yeshua to be conceived of the essence of both the divine and the mortal, and after Yeshua the Christ atoned for all sin (for there is no manner of sin that cannot be forgiven, save blasphemy against the Holy Spirit), God then revealed that the saints would be the judges of angels. And if saints are to be the judges of angels, the judge has the power to pardon, for God has committed such judgment and power to them in wisdom. Did not Yeshua tell all his disciples, and emphasize that whosoever shall humble themselves as a little child will be greatest in the kingdom of heaven, and, that whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven? (Matthew 18:4 & 18).

Before the atonement all creatures were bound by the grip of sin, but Yeshua’s atonement opened new possibilities should creatures seek pardon and act in a manner so as to live according to Gods established will. Gods established will is to walk in love and light. (Ephesians 5:2, 1 John 4:12, John 12:36, Ephesians 5:8, 1 Thessalonians 5:5).

Is it not true that God pronounced judgment upon the children of Israel in the desert and sought to destroy the race of Abraham from under heaven, telling Moses that he would become the father of a nation? (Exodus 32:9 – 14). Did not God pronounce judgment on Nineveh and send the prophet Jonah to proclaim judgment to their face? (Book of Jonah). Yet in both cases though judgment was pronounced, God turned and pardoned, and the judgment was stayed after the people petitioned God and expressed contrition.


Know then that it is not without hope that the Watchers pray, nor is it beyond hope that some of them can be redeemed. For as Origen of Alexandria so wisely said, the daemons that desire to regain the status of angels may become men and by their sufferings endured in mortal flesh, and by deeds worthy of honor, can change their estate from that which was to that which can be attained. (Origen on First Principles). Are not these same principles echoed by the prophet Ezekiel who said if God proclaimed the wicked shall surely die, and the wicked turn from his sin to do what is lawful and right, he shall surely live and shall not die? (Ezekiel 33:14 – 15).

And so the angels having their abode among the seven stars did procreate with men, and by their seed did bear children of spirits among mortals. And the women of the angels became sirens (Enoch 19:2 – 3) and it is recorded throughout history that the sirens have taken lovers and husbands from among men so to preserve their race on earth. The genes of these ancient Watchers and the spirits of their offspring who are able to take form of a physical nature, have run through the descendents of all who were born of the original unions and the unions after that the world was destroyed in the deluge. Hence we discover not only the sufferings endured by many of their descendents, but an awakening amongst those who follow pagan paths.

In the fullness of time, which is this present age, those once considered the children of darkness are become as the children of light – their deeds showing that they walk a path to God and their lives demonstrating love and light within. Though they may be not aware of what is taking place, the Spirit draws them, and the purpose of their ancestors quest for pardon is brought to fruition. For these are the children of the seven stars and of the seed of the Watchers, redeemed by the atonement of Christ, the same Christ who preached to the Watchers as it is written in Peter, “By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.” (1 Peter 3:19 – 20). Let us take notice that Yeshua the Christ preached to the spirits (angels) imprisoned by God, who of them it is said were sometimes disobedient, denoting at one time or formerly disobedient. Whereby now their sentence shall be proclaimed not by God but by men who are flesh and who are also redeemed by Christ.

As it is written “When he [Yeshua] ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?)” And we know from this that the Christ went into the realms of the dead, and to where the angels were bound, and the dead from among men. Consider Enoch, who told of four hollow places in a mountain of rock created for the souls of the dead where the souls should be assembled until the appointed time. (Enoch 22:1 – 4). Now we know that Yeshua descended into these hollows, and led some out, for this is plainly revealed in the scriptures. And we know also that it is written, “And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.” (Hebrews 9:22 – 23). Here we see two things; that almost all things can be considered purified by Christ’s atonement, and that heavenly things also are purified. But which heavenly things need purification but those which are corrupted? And which things of heaven were corrupted but the angels who joined with mortals? Hence we are made aware by the scriptures themselves that the atonement of Yeshua the Christ is sufficient for the angels as well as for mortals.


As the apostles Peter and Jude wrote, God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness to be reserved unto judgment: we may understand that these are restricted to their present habitations only until the time of judgment, at which time the saints shall be the judges among angels. Yeshua told us, “Be ye merciful even as your Father in heaven is merciful,” (Luke 6:36) “for with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged.” (Matthew 7:2) For Yeshua spoke of sheep who from their heart ministered unto him by their deeds of kindness, though they knew not wholly what they were doing (Matthew 25:33 – 40), and that he had other sheep that were not of this fold (John 10:16). We shall consider then “other sheep” to include not only gentile mortals but also angels who by their careful prayers and penitent actions find their place among the stars of God.

Hereby is known the revelation of the redemption of angels.

Written March - April 2005 and included in one of my college finals (which got an A)