The "Nephilim" what were/are they?

Godfixated

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Nobody wants to realize the fact that the Nephilim were just men great in sin which is mentioned in my original post. This makes total sense in the Biblical context. Women did not mate with angels. That notion is extremely absurd as angels are spiritual beings and woman are physical beings and they cannot in any way copulate. This kind of stuff keeps people away from the true meat of the Word.
 
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PureDose

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These tend to be the reasons we believe they are fallen angels:

Numbers 13:32-33

New International Version (NIV)

32 And they spread among the Israelites a bad report about the land they had explored. They said, “The land we explored devours those living in it. All the people we saw there are of great size. 33 We saw the Nephilim there (the descendants of Anak come from the Nephilim). We seemed like grasshoppers in our own eyes, and we looked the same to them.”




Genesis 6:4

New International Version (NIV)

4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.

One of the most bizarre verses by Paul, if not the most bizarre, states that women should cover their heads when praying "because of the angels":

1 Corinthians 11:10

New International Version (NIV)

10 It is for this reason that a woman ought to have authority over her own head, because of the angels.




That could mean something else, I do not know. From my own observation, women are very attractive with their heads uncovered, and that gets really toned down when they wear hats.

Not exactly a non-universal understanding, we are all well aware of the head covering beliefs of Muslims.

Christians generally ignore this as it was a signal of the times.


The term used for "sons of God" is "ben elohiym" in the original hebrew (Blue Letter Bible).

This same term is used for angels in the Old Testament:

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Gen 6:2 That the sons 1121 of God 430 saw 7200 the daughters 1323 of men 120 that they 2007 [were] fair 2896; and they took 3947 them wives 802 of all which they chose 977.
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Gen 6:4 There were giants 5303 in the earth 776 in those days 3117; and also after 310 that 3651, when 834 the sons 1121 of God 430 came in 935 unto the daughters 1323 of men 120, and they bare 3205 [children] to them, the same 1992 [became] mighty men 1368 which [were] of old 5769, men 582 of renown 8034.
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Job 1:6 Now there was a day 3117 when the sons 1121 of God 430 came 935 to present 3320 themselves before the LORD 3068, and Satan 7854 came 935 also among 8432 them.
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Job 2:1 Again there was a day 3117 when the sons 1121 of God 430 came 935 to present 3320 themselves before the LORD 3068, and Satan 7854 came 935 also among 8432 them to present 3320 himself before the LORD 3068.
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Job 38:7 When the morning 1242 stars 3556 sang 7442 together 3162, and all the sons 1121 of God 430 shouted 7321 for joy?



Enoch, whether true or not, is dated very old and says they were angels as well, so this is not some manner of new interpretation.


Peter and Jude both report this, though it could just be a coincidence Peter mentions the condemnation of the flood after mentioning "the angels who fell".

2 Peter 2:4-5

New International Version (NIV)

4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell,[a] putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment; 5 if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others;




This also seems to tie into the ones imprisoned in what Peter says here.

1 Peter 3:18-20

New International Version (NIV)

18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive,[a] he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,



Many died before Christ, why did Jesus specifically go and preach to the spirits imprisoned after dying in the flood?

Because they were a special case. They were fallen angels.


So, there are many reasons why we tend to believe that these were angels.


The term "sons of God" in the Old Testament is never used for people.

If the Bible said, "men went and slept with women and bore them children who were giants"... that would be very different.


There is also a great deal of evidence of the ancient world that there were phenomenal people who lived back then... people who were able to build and do things which seem very impossible for ordinary mortals.
 
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ViaCrucis

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And yet the seeming majority of Jewish and Christian scholars throughout history have tended toward the interpretation that these were mere human beings. Not bizarre angel-human hybrids.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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DrBubbaLove

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If we added Homer's Illiad with other ancient writings then we could add some really detailed descriptions of what "fallen angels" must look like.

The Children repeatedly demonstrated a reluctance to do what God told them and a penchant for complaining, bemoaning their current condition. They needed a reason to not invade and take over a land they were being told God was giving to them. The inhabitants were tall, big and fierce warriors, yeah giants. Let's go some place where they are not instead. Good idea. Write that down so century laters imaginative people can believe we saw "fallen angels".
 
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LantanaAnna

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The Nephilim were not mere mortals. There is a great amount of information about them on the internet. Very interesting reading. I hope all will proceed with this subject.

They were Satan's attempt to corrupt the bloodlines of Christ. They failed,the flood was sent to rid the earth of them, thats why God killed everyone but Noah and his family. Noah was perfect in his generations , meaning his dna.

God bless all.
 
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gasman64

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The Nephilim were not mere mortals. There is a great amount of information about them on the internet. Very interesting reading. I hope all will proceed with this subject.

They were Satan's attempt to corrupt the bloodlines of Christ. They failed,the flood was sent to rid the earth of them, thats why God killed everyone but Noah and his family. Noah was perfect in his generations , meaning his dna.

God bless all.

Ahhh...the holy internet....please forgive me my dear for doubting. I only have the scriptures to go by and can't afford the internet....how will I ever be a christian with only the Bible as my guide??? Woah is me........:p
I will have to change everything that I believe now. Aliens are real...Bigfoot is alive and well and there were 2 men on the grassy knoll. :doh:
"Jesus loves me this I know...for the internet tells me so..." ;)

They say sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, but they just aren't very good at it....peace my sister...:cool:
 
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ViaCrucis

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The Nephilim were not mere mortals. There is a great amount of information about them on the internet. Very interesting reading. I hope all will proceed with this subject.

Yes. The internet. Where anyone with a wild imagination and a penchant for paranoia can say anything they like and pass it off as factual information.

The internet is a fantastic resource, if one can navigate the wasteland of silliness and find legitimate, credible facts. But, there's still that wasteland.

They were Satan's attempt to corrupt the bloodlines of Christ. They failed,the flood was sent to rid the earth of them, thats why God killed everyone but Noah and his family. Noah was perfect in his generations , meaning his dna.

God bless all.

No.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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PureDose

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And yet the seeming majority of Jewish and Christian scholars throughout history have tended toward the interpretation that these were mere human beings. Not bizarre angel-human hybrids.

-CryptoLutheran

I have read a great deal of the old writers, and Jewish writers, and do not recall this being a matter of contention. But, then again, I was not very interested in this subject until studying Revelation which describes what sounds like Satan and his angels falling to earth and maybe becoming as mortal humans.

I have no problem in admitting, either, that nothing of what I posted proves those are angels. It just seems to say that. It could say something else. But, I do feel it is dishonest to say "Nephilim mated with daughters of men and bore children who became giants, the heroes of old" as though that does not very much sound like Nephilim were something other then sons of men.

As for "the heroes of old", just as we find the flood account in cultures all across the world, even in cultures that were separated by far from other civilizations, it does not strike me as odd at the language. Because we do have many similar stories of "great heroes of old" whose stories seem to say they were hybrids.

Today, most of us are familiar with these stories through the Greek stories, popularized in modern movies.

But, I do have a problem with people assuming "angels mating with humans would make bizarre hybrids". I find that thoroughly unfair and discriminatory against both angels and mortals.

Jesus came from Heaven himself, and I do not think he was any manner of monster. He was different, but not so much. And the same is found in any account of angels who appear to people in disguise.

As for the term "giant" - especially that it is used in reference with the term "hero" - I think this is very well explained. There are plenty of people who were giants inside through history. Michelangelo, Leonardo Da Vinci, are two who might quickly come to mind to me.

Jesus was clearly an enormous giant, himself, if one uses that concept.

A giant of consciousness is to be expected, as an acceptable anomaly, even if they are limited to what they can do on the mortal plane.
 
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PureDose

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If we added Homer's Illiad with other ancient writings then we could add some really detailed descriptions of what "fallen angels" must look like.

The Children repeatedly demonstrated a reluctance to do what God told them and a penchant for complaining, bemoaning their current condition. They needed a reason to not invade and take over a land they were being told God was giving to them. The inhabitants were tall, big and fierce warriors, yeah giants. Let's go some place where they are not instead. Good idea. Write that down so century laters imaginative people can believe we saw "fallen angels".


The primary verse in question is what the problem is:

Genesis 6:4

4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.


Now, say "the Nephilim" were "just corrupt people". Why are they then called in the very same breath, "the sons of God".

And why are they called "the sons of God" and the women called "daughters of men".

And why is it said that they great children?


There is nothing remarkable about people sleeping together and having children.

There is no sin, nor fallen state for a mortal "son of God" to sleep with even a "unbelieving woman" and have children.

The New Testament says that our children are saved for our sakes by default.


Why would it have been different then.


From what it appears it does not make sense to state that this verse is saying anything different.

As for language difficulties, these are with only the exception of the word "Nephilim" completely ordinary and very often used - and so well defined - words and terms.

Though, perhaps, it is true, the term "sons" used as "sons of God" is only used in one other place in the Old Testament. And that is in Job 1:6 when they are angels spoken of presenting themselves before the throne of God.


This simply then leave the "illogical" problem of what it says is not being normal or possible, according to mortal people. That angels can not sleep with mortals.

But, this is not something based on fact or knowledge, there is no proof anyone has that this is not the case.

One can only make an assumption. Not have facts.

If anyone has personal experience, only then could they have facts. But this is ruled out as well, as it is impossible to prove personal experience to anyone else. So, effectively, one can only make an assumption without facts.

Therefore, that leaves that argument out of the equation entirely except as a intellectual possibility in their own mind.


I, can not absolutely prove the verse says one way or the other, as well, simply that it is not reasonable to argue it seems to say the Nephilim were just regular mortals, or even "fallen" sons of man.


It might also be noted, with the exception of the reference of "sons of God" to angels in the book of Job -- the next time anywhere hears that manner of phrase is when Satan asks Jesus if he is really the son of God.
 
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PureDose

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Ahhh...the holy internet....please forgive me my dear for doubting. I only have the scriptures to go by and can't afford the internet....how will I ever be a christian with only the Bible as my guide??? Woah is me........:p
I will have to change everything that I believe now. Aliens are real...Bigfoot is alive and well and there were 2 men on the grassy knoll. :doh:
"Jesus loves me this I know...for the internet tells me so..." ;)

They say sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, but they just aren't very good at it....peace my sister...:cool:


This is the internet, so it is great we have found people who know for a fact what angels can and can not do.

Try and ask them where they have proof of their statements about what angels can and can not do, and what will they say?


That in their own mind they have reasoned it out, perhaps. Or maybe that they have first hand knowledge of the "fact" that angels can not procreate with mortals.

Unless they themselves are angels or were angels, they can not state such a thing.
 
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PureDose

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Yes. The internet. Where anyone with a wild imagination and a penchant for paranoia can say anything they like and pass it off as factual information.

The internet is a fantastic resource, if one can navigate the wasteland of silliness and find legitimate, credible facts. But, there's still that wasteland.



No.

-CryptoLutheran

I am not saying the verse proves angels fell and procreated with humans. But I am saying it does seem the verse states that.

What I am hearing from people on the internet is that angels can absolutely not procreate with human beings.

This means they are assuming they know all about what angels can and can not do. They likely got this from their own imaginings. They do not have sources for this, because if they did, they would be able to provide references and their references would likely be online.


So, unless anyone here is an angel, I do not think they can state for sure what angels can and can not do.


The verse under question by every means seems to say angels fell and slept with women and bore great children. One has to twist it to say something else. The verse does not prove that the Nephilim are angels, but it definitely implies it.


To state otherwise, I can not help but feel would be patently dishonest, because there are two terms used for the very same creatures: one is that they are Nephilim, "fallen", and the other is that they are "sons of God". Another point that would imply it would be dishonest to state this is that it says the children were "heroes of old" or "giants", which means they were different and superior to ordinary children by at the very least very direct inference.

There is even another point on this very same verse that infers these were angels, and that is the term "sons of God" was used for them while "daughters of men" were used for the women. This term "sons of God" was used only twice else in Hebrew, in the Old Testament, and that is in Job where in both cases it clearly means "angels".


So, what else can angels definitely do or not do? And where did one poster get his "fact" that angels are neither male nor female? Because they are "spirits"? Is the Spirit of Jesus neither male nor female?
 
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PureDose

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The Nephilim were not mere mortals. There is a great amount of information about them on the internet. Very interesting reading. I hope all will proceed with this subject.

They were Satan's attempt to corrupt the bloodlines of Christ. They failed,the flood was sent to rid the earth of them, thats why God killed everyone but Noah and his family. Noah was perfect in his generations , meaning his dna.

God bless all.

There is much about them on the internet, and I will not be a hypocrite to state that this means a person is dumb or stupid because they say such a thing.

How often do people roll their eyes in their own sense of self-superiority and say the sarcastic remark, "Google it, maybe?"

Condemning sources on the internet entirely can condemn anyone's capability to cite sources at all.
 
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GrayAngel

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So, what else can angels definitely do or not do? And where did one poster get his "fact" that angels are neither male nor female? Because they are "spirits"? Is the Spirit of Jesus neither male nor female?

Matthew 22:30 - "At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven."

Angels do not marry or have children. They are each created from scratch by God. If they don't procreate with one another, then I doubt they can with us.
 
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Faulty

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Matthew 22:30 - "At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven."

Angels do not marry or have children. They are each created from scratch by God. If they don't procreate with one another, then I doubt they can with us.

That clearly specifies the angels in heaven only. It's implication is the angels not in heaven doing something differently.
 
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Faulty

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Amazon's book description for "Nephilim Stargates"

"One myth from the history of every great civilization spoke of beings descending from heaven and using human and animal DNA to create giant offspring. Rabbinical authorities, Septuagint translators and early church fathers understood this as a factual record of history. The phenomenon began with the “Watchers” who spawned “Nephilim” resulting in judgment from God. The ancients also knew Bible passages that predict the Nephilim will return when Iraq and Iran are invaded and destroyed. Is this prophecy about to be fulfilled? Is man, in his rush to play god through biological weapons, biotechnology, and genetic manipulation, opening gateways to a supernatural unknown? Nephilim Stargates and the Return of the Watchers is a glimpse into this past, present, and future phenomena, with an eye on what sages and scientists believe and what futurists and prophets may fear."

Emphasis mine.

I'm going to go ahead and say that, at least based on this description, this book isn't worth the paper it's printed on.

It might as well be reptilian aliens live in human skin and tin foil hats protect us from their mind-beams.

If one's biblical interpretation starts to look a bit more like a B-rated sci-fi novel, it should seriously cause pause.

-CryptoLutheran

That's up to you but one might actually want to see if such a claim is backed up in the book, which it is, before dismissing it out of ignorance concerning the books content.
 
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PureDose

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Matthew 22:30 - "At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven."

Angels do not marry or have children. They are each created from scratch by God. If they don't procreate with one another, then I doubt they can with us.

The verse merely says they will neither marry nor be given in marriage, and that angels neither marry nor are given in marriage.

Every being is created by scratch from God. Angels are persistently created, just as human beings are. Human beings from the earth, angels from "fire and wind".

Going from all this to argue that angels are "sexless", is something else. It also is implying that human beings are going to be sexless in the age to come, and that they will no longer have children.

This may be the case. It may even be the case that the original hebrew is wrong in the Old Testament. It could be the case that the angels who fell and "left their places of authority" did so not to walk the earth and have what women they wished.

But, it may not be.

God is Spirit and was able to have a child. That is known.

It is true, an angel did not mate with Mary to conceive that child, however.
 
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ViaCrucis

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God is Spirit and was able to have a child. That is known.

Wait. Wait. Wait a moment.

This isn't Christian teaching. We do not teach that Mary was impregnated by God, as though the Holy Spirit fathered Jesus.

We do teach that Mary, a virgin, by the miraculous power of the Spirit conceived a Child. Jesus, the man, was sired by no one; He is Mary's progeny uniquely in this capacity.

He is the Son of God, however, because from all eternity He is Son of the Father, the Son has always existed. This is why the Creed says, "begotten of the Father before all ages", there was never a time the Son was not, the Son has always been and has always been Son, only-begotten of the Father. Light of Light, true God of true God.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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