The Mystery of The False Prophet.

[MithrandirOlorin888]

If you can argue that those revers refer to End Times without changing what Geographical locations they refer to, then maybe I'll take you seriously. But if you have King of the North as anyone other then Syrian ruler,s or King of the South as anyone other then Egyptian rulers, your torturing the data endlessly.

Jeremiah 51 and 52 and Isaiah 13-14 are all still yet future, the "Medes' in those verses are the Kurds. They won't be fulfilled until after a Kurdistan is formed.

 

[Douggg]

If you can argue that those revers refer to End Times without changing what Geographical locations they refer to, then maybe I'll take you seriously. But if you have King of the North as anyone other then Syrian ruler,s or King of the South as anyone other then Egyptian rulers, your torturing the data endlessly.

Jeremiah 51 and 52 and Isaiah 13-14 are all still yet future, the "Medes' in those verses are the Kurds. They won't be fulfilled until after a Kurdistan is formed.

Hi M8, I started a thread last February regarding the historic northern and southern kings in Daniel 11 and the future northern and southern kings after Daniel 11:36.

The historic northern and southern kings are the Seleucids and the Ptolomeys, regional kings from the four directions of the compass.

When it gets to the end times, because of the global nature of all the countries of the world being drawn into the mideast right before Armageddon, the kings of the north and south, east and west are again representative as being the four directions of the compass, but they are not the regional powers, but continental powers.

Here's the link, and I show on some maps I made up to convey the differences.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7723728/

 

[MithrandirOlorin888]

No, I reject any interpretation that changes what geographies they represent for one part of the Prophecy. Just as I reject making Babylon into Rome or America.

If the King of the north is Russia how can he latter have trouble from even further north?

BTW it doesn't discus kings of the East or West at all. The King being discus in verses 36-45 seems to like Israel be located between Kings of the North and South.

 

[Choose Wisely]

MithrandirOlorin888;64187705]

If you can argue that those revers refer to End Times without changing what Geographical locations they refer to, then maybe I'll take you seriously. But if you have King of the North as anyone other then Syrian ruler,s or King of the South as anyone other then Egyptian rulers, your torturing the data endlessly.

Well, can you tell me what verse or verses tell you that Egypt is the King of the South and Syria is King of the North.

Jeremiah 51 and 52 and Isaiah 13-14 are all still yet future, the "Medes' in those verses are the Kurds. They won't be fulfilled until after a Kurdistan is formed.

(Jer 50 and Jer 51)Bravo..........I have never seen anyone that understood that. The Kurds are the third part of a three part prophecy. Gulf War I and Gulf War II are the first two parts of the prophecy being recently fulfilled.

 

[MithrandirOlorin888]

The context is entirely about the relationship between Israel and the pieces of Alexander's divided kingdom. Only Egypt was South of Israel, but regardless Egypt is mentioned as synonymous with the South both before and after verse 35. And then only Seleucid Syria has the described relationship with the Ptolemies, starting with Seleucus I having once served under Ptolemy.

Back to the actual topic, I've made some new discoveries.

What if among the lies told by this Pseudo-Jesus is verifying the claims of The DaVinci Code, Holy Blood, Holy Grail, The Bloodline of the Holy Grail by Lawrence Gardiner, and many others that he had children and that they became ancestral to various Royal houses of both Europe and the Middle East? Including ancestors of this political leader he's now promoting? It'd be one thing to make that claim, but what if he offered to prove it with a DNA test?

Judas would have to have had kids for that to have any chance of working. Well another detail Psalm 109 tells us about him in verse 9 is "Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow." So Judas did have a wife ant at least two children. Could it have been his family who traveled to southern France and became ancestors of the Merovingian Dynasty?

Iscariot means "of Kerioth". There were actually 2 cities named Kerioth, both however make Judas the only of the Twelve who wasn't Galilean. Most people assume the Kerioth in southern Judah is what's meant here. It has been identified with the ruins of el-Kureitein, about 10 miles south of Hebron.

But there was also the Kerioth (sometimes call Kirioth) that was in Moab, mentioned in Jeremiah 48 and Amos 2:2. In New Testament times most of Moab including this city was part of the region called Peraea. Simon of Peraea was one of a couple of Messianic claimants to revolt soon after Herod's death in 1 B.C. Judas is called "son of Simon" or "Simon's son" in John's Gospel three times, 6:71, 13:2 and 13:26.

Josephus doesn't tell us where exactly in Peraea he came from. But if he is the same would be Messiah of The Gabriel Revelation Stone, it was found pretty close to Kerioth if I recall correctly. So I shall hypothesize that Simon of Peraea (Who is also know as Simon ben Joseph) was the father of Judas.

Since he proclaimed himself King and had some decent backing at first, I think it's likely he either had Davidic descent (possibly an Exilarch), or some connection to the Hamsonean Dynasty. Or perhaps both. John Hyrcanus had five sons, but only three are well known, the other two who where imprisoned with Alexander simply went on to live normal lives after they where freed.

Hyrcanus's sons Aristobulus and Alexander where the fist Hasmoneans to truly rule as Kings. While Alexander's wife was the first Hansonean woman to rule actually hold civil governmental power. Hyrcanus's will intended the same for his wife who we know nothing about, not even her name. But Aristobulus didn't like that idea. Maybe she had Davidic descent, John married her to give the family more legitimacy.

He might have had good reason to seek better legitimacy. Josephus records in The Antiquities of the Jews, 13:292 that the Pharisees said to Hyrcanus that his mother had been a salve of Antiochus Ephanies. And this was said with the intend to question his legitimacy. Jospehus himself seems to reject this, but I find it interesting.

 

[Douggg]

No, I reject any interpretation that changes what geographies they represent for one part of the Prophecy. Just as I reject making Babylon into Rome or America.

If the King of the north is Russia how can he latter have trouble from even further north?

BTW it doesn't discus kings of the East or West at all. The King being discus in verses 36-45 seems to like Israel be located between Kings of the North and South.

I'm not sure of what you are implying with Russia. Russia ally's with the muslims in a pre-70th week Gog/Magog invasion of Israel, Ezekiel 38-39.

A sixth of their army will survive but be turned back. Then Gog/Magog is followed by 7 years of the Antichrist. At the end of the 7 years, a new batch of fighting men have come of age, which will replenish their ranks which will have been decimated by the Gog/Magog defeat 7 years earlier, for the battles in Daniel 11.

Regarding the other directions, in Daniel 11:44, news out of the east and north troubles the king spoken of in Daniel 11:36 (the Antichrist-beast, the king of the West). The east is the 200,000,000 strong army, the Chinese lead Asian countries, marching to the middle east, destroying a third of mankind along the way - which would indicate that India and perhaps Pakistan will be loyal Antichrist-beast followers - to attack the Antichrist.

This will be when the Euphrates dries up to make their way easier, the kings of the east in Revelation 16:12, the sixth seal right at the end of the 7 years. Which again is to draw all the nations of the world into the middle east as a prelude to the Armageddon assembly of nations of the world to try and stop Jesus from returning.

The regional kingdoms of the historic Ptolemies and the Seleucid's are insignificant in scale. Plus they no longer exist. The geographic directions of the Daniel 11 prophecy are maintained as being from the directions of the north, south, east, west. It is the powers coming from those four directions that is the basis of the prophecy - not the regional kingdoms.


Doug

 

[MithrandirOlorin888]

"news out of the east and north" is a vauge term. There is no King of the Eats of West mentioned.

NO the Anitchrist is NOT the King of the West, he's clearly like Israel south of the King of the north and north of the King of the South before his war with them starts. Your reading your desire for him to rise to power in Europe into it. He's revives the Roman Empire, but the Eastern Empire outlasted the West.

Those Dynasties no longer exist, but Egypt and Syria do. Why does it even begin by Talking about Alexander if to you Alexander's divided Kingodm is irrelevant to the Context?

 

[Douggg]

"news out of the east and north" is a vauge term. There is no King of the East of West mentioned.

News out of the east and north is not so vague, when Revelation is taken into consideration.

The Antichrist himself is not mentioned. It takes putting together prophecies of found elsewhere, to identify the king in Daniel 11:36 as the Antichrist-beast.

It does say news of the east troubles him in the text. Daniel 11 is not a stand alone prophecy. It takes the other prophecies to go with it to make the complete picture.

In Zechariah 14, God draws all nations against Jerusalem for battle. Which God Himself takes direct part in the battle. The battles in Daniel 11 are a prelude to Armageddon by drawing the nations into the middle east.

NO the Anitchrist is NOT the King of the West, he's clearly like Israel south of the King of the north and north of the King of the South before his war with them starts. Your reading your desire for him to rise to power in Europe into it. He's revives the Roman Empire, but the Eastern Empire outlasted the West.

Well, it is not a revival of the Roman Empire, but an end times version of it. The word revived, as some use in saying "revived" Roman Empire is misleading because it could be taken to mean the wounded and recovered (revived) head in Revelation 13 is referring to the Roman Empire, which it is not.

The former eastern portion of the Roman Empire, simply does not have the military strength to impose the Antichrist's will. The little horn in Daniel 8 waxes strong to the south and east toward Israel. So the direction he originates from is north and west of Israel. And he comes to Israel in great strength. The former eastern portion of the Roman Empire from that direction, Greece and Turkey perhaps - don't have the military strength to broadly impose the Antichrist-beast's will.

Those Dynasties no longer exist, but Egypt and Syria do. Why does it even begin by Talking about Alexander if to you Alexander's divided Kingodm is irrelevant to the Context?

Because the prophecy covers from the time of the Persian kings, Daniel 11:2, to the end times. Alexander and the resultant divided kingdoms are addressed as part of that overall time period. And even so, only two of the divided kingdoms are spoken of, although there were a total of four.

The two divided kingdoms spoken of, the Ptolemies and the Seleucid's, and the other two not detailed, are relevant to the historic timeframe. When the prophecy gets to the end times in Daniel 11:36, it is the powers from the four directions of the compass on a global scale that all the end times prophecies supported elsewhere in the bible that must be part of the understanding.

Your idea of a Mahdi Antichrist is not workable because the Muslim are not to worship the Mahdi. Which the Antichrist-beast claiming to be God will be worshiped. You are interpreting the latter passages in Daniel 11 within the paradigm of the Mahdi or a Muslim being the Antichrist, which is a flawed basis.


Doug

 

[MithrandirOlorin888]

The Anitchrist will be the "Mahdi" of Islam, porbably of the hashemite dynasty that has intermarried wiht Westenr royalty and is very invovle din the U.N. and Club of Rome. The "King of the North" who attacks him is Sufyani.

God doesn't change what he means Geographically in 1 single vision, King of the North is Syria, Period. The latter reference to troubles "out of the north' could refer to something further North.

 

[Choose Wisely]

The context is entirely about the relationship between Israel and the pieces of Alexander's divided kingdom. Only Egypt was South of Israel, but regardless Egypt is mentioned as synonymous with the South both before and after verse 35. And then only Seleucid Syria has the described relationship with the Ptolemies, starting with Seleucus I having once served under Ptolemy.

I see no mention of Egypt or Syria in the text Jimmy.

 

[John S]

Neither the antichrist nor the false prophet are going to be Islamic. They will be "Christian".

 

[dfw69]

Neither the antichrist nor the false prophet are going to be Islamic. They will be "Christian".

Lol your joking right?? Haha

Anyway in case your not you can't be antichrist and christian at the same time .. But thanks for the good laugh

 

[John S]

Lol your joking right?? Haha

Anyway in case your not you can't be antichrist and christian at the same time .. But thanks for the good laugh

Both of them will PRETEND to be Christian.
Keep laughing.

 

[dfw69]

Both of them will PRETEND to be Christian.
Keep laughing.

O so you were not joking well I'm sorry I misunderstood you

So what your saying is antichrist and false prophet pretend to be Christians.
So not christian but false Christians. Ok I got ya

 

[MithrandirOlorin888]

"Honor not the God of his Father" implies he could be a former Christian who converted to Islam.

 

[Choose Wisely]

"Honor not the God of his Father" implies he could be a former Christian who converted to Islam.

If you understood about the 7 heads you would not believe this.

 

[dfw69]

An anti-christ 'false christ' doesn't have to come in the literal name of Christ.
Ever heard of, "Yahweh Ben Yahweh?" He's a false Christ. The Buddha, he's a false Christ. The Muslim jesus. He's a false Christ. Mohammad. He's a false Christ. The Mahdi. He's a false christ.

There are many scriptural reasons why the man of sin will come in Islam.
But if you believe what the experts teach you'll never see it.

Jesus said Israel will receive another messiah who comes in his own name and not from god. Do you think the Jews will receive a messiah from the Islamic nation? No they will only accept one from the sons of David as promised

 

[Douggg]

"Honor not the God of his Father" implies he could be a former Christian who converted to Islam.

Daniel 11:37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

It is the God of his Fathers. His fathers are Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob. He will be a Jew. Who will sell out to Satan, near the middle of the 7 years.

He has to be a Jew for the Jews to for a short period believe that he is their promised King Messiah, promised great King of Israel to lead them into the messianic age. He will have such an ego to fancy himself to be the one.

He is not going to a Muslim, nor Mahdi. There is not going to be a Mahdi, except the possibility of some perceived Mahdi being the personification of Gog.

Doug

 

[Choose Wisely]

It is the God of his Fathers. His fathers are Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob. He will be a Jew. Who will sell out to Satan, near the middle of the 7 years.

He has to be a Jew for the Jews to for a short period believe that he is their promised King Messiah, promised great King of Israel to lead them into the messianic age. He will have such an ego to fancy himself to be the one.



Doug

The scripture does not say his fathers are Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. You are adding that.

 

[Douggg]

The scripture does not say his fathers are Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. You are adding that.

Matthew 22:31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

So, that's my interpretation of what it means God of his fathers, Daniel 11. It is a common saying in Judaism, theirs is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. They consider those three to be their fathers. You can look it up on the internet. The Antichrist is going to be a Jew.

You think the Antichrist is going to be a muslim, who doesn't honor Allah? So that the muslims will all worship the mahdi who claims he is God and has not honor of Allah?


Doug