The mistranslation into the English of the act of Faith that saves ...

[sdowney717]

Please address the facts i've presented that you don't agree with.

I did, you said there are no believers, but scripture says there are 'believers'

Clearly you are blinded. Your ideology is as bad as if you say there is no water, yet the ocean is full of it.

 

[watchman 2]

I did, you said there are no believers, but scripture says there are 'believers'

Clearly you are blinded. Your ideology is as bad as if you say there is no water, yet the ocean is full of it.

 

[sdowney717]

Please address the facts i've presented or show some basic respect .

Here are the facts again.


Here's the facts i'm presenting.

The English has no verb for the noun Faith as the Greek does. fact.

The translators chose to use the words believe, believer, and believing. those words are only a part of pisteuo , but taken alone are a mistranslation. fact

The strongs gives a disclaimer in it's definition that "pisteuo means not just to believe." fact

The Vines defines pisteuo as " A personal surrender to Him, and a conduct inspired by such surrender." fact

The words the English language "should" have had to translate pisteuo are , faithe, faither , and faithing. fact

Because pisteuo was mistranslated "into" English, it's also mistranslated back out of the English. fact

The writers could not have intended that pisteuo was just "belief" in Gods Word , because when they were writing the letter s, there was no Gods Word. fact

The word pisteuo in it's correct definition (continual surrendering of our lives) could not only work and be fulfilled today , but could work and be fulfilled before the 1500's when Gods Word started to be circulated to the masses. That means , that God could call anyone He pleases , and they could re pond with saving Faith ( pisteuo ) that would result in the sealing of the Holy Spirit. They couldn't have "believed" in Gods Word because it would not have been available to them. fact

What works for saving Faith today , had to work the same for the people before Gods Word was available . Saving Faith in the application of is, "A personal surrender to Him, and a life inspired by such surrender." fact

Unless these facts can be proven false, this is the truth and will stand as such.

Again your blinded in your mind saying there are no believers, when clearly scripture call them believers.
You are simply redefining the words of scripture to suit your opinion.

 

[watchman 2]

I have a One New Man bible and in the Shema when it says Hear O Isreal next to hear it says Obey. I think it's a constant theme throughout the Bible (taking action). I find it fascinating that you discovered this truth and were brave enough to share it like James (Yaacov) states faith without works is dead. Faith is trusting and doing Gods word no matter how unpopular you become.

 

[1John2:4]

God works in mysterious ways. I can't take any credit for a discovery , when i was at a low point 30 years ago , drowning , it was the only thing available to grab hold of. I was told the only way to get out of the drowning state i was in , is to make a covenant with God. To make a decision, to turn my life and will over to God, every day all day if needed. I've done that exact thing every day for 30 years. As the result ive had and still am having a personal relationship with Christ. I know His Spirit and what it does , i know what its like to have His Mind . Over that 30 years, i happened across a "Bible teachers Bible teacher" , maybe the best the world has ever known. I knew this because what he was teaching about Faith, and the Holy Spirit , i was experiencing , and had experienced it before i heard him teach it. It took about 20 years of thinking about what was happening to me before i started to put 2 and 2 together, what i had and am fulfilling is the true act of saving faith used 248 times in the NT. Pisteuo! I told you i made a decision to turn my life and will over to God? Pisteuo defined in the Greek is "A personal surrender to Him, and a life inspired by such surrender." It's the same thing.

I'd love to be a brave man , but the truth is i just can't contain what He's done and is still doing to me. I have been trying for the better part of 10 years to find a way to prove what saving Faith is intellectually, or with facts that can be seen , and not violate the personal things Jesus has done in me. I think i'm making perfect sense , but i've never had one person "ever" understand or agree with what i'm trying to share. Although i'm extremely sad about that and have taken nothing but ridicule for it. I never stop surrendering myself to Him.

Wonderful testimony thanks so much for sharing it. I too was saved, drugs alcohol, I was so deep in the trenches of the world I was saved by Jesus and He has been working on me to turn from more and stuff. Hopefully I can truly walk as Yeshua did at some point if I can stay humble in spirit. After all For Christ is the end (goal)of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes”

 

[EmSw]

Again your blinded in your mind saying there are no believers, when clearly scripture call them believers.
You are simply redefining the words of scripture to suit your opinion.

Now sdowney, believers can be believers or unbelievers according to you.

 

[watchman 2]

Wonderful testimony thanks so much for sharing it. I too was saved, drugs alcohol, I was so deep in the trenches of the world I was saved by Jesus and He has been working on me to turn from more and stuff. Hopefully I can truly walk as Yeshua did at some point if I can stay humble in spirit. After all For Christ is the end (goal)of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes”

 

[watchman 2]

w2

 

[1John2:4]

When you say "to everyone who believes ", that makes me think either you missed the message of this thread , or you disagree with it. But i don't want to ruin a friendly post , so i'm rooting for you.

That's ok, I was quoting Paul I know his writings have a tendency to cause confusion, this one works too " He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;" Ephesians 1:5

 

[watchman 2]

That's ok, I was quoting Paul I know his writings have a tendency to cause confusion, this one works too " He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;" Ephesians 1:5

 

[1John2:4]

The Bible teacher i spoke of was a paulinist , To say he taught about his writings in depth would be an under statement. He taught on the first three chapters of Romans for three years.

What i don't know is anything about the Messianic Faith . Would you mind telling me a little about it and how it pertains to Jesus Christ?

I am pretty new to MJ so I would probably not be the best person to sum it all up for you but I can give you the reasons I choose to believe in it. I choose MJ because they want to keep the commandments of God and have faith in Jesus (Yeshua). I think that those 2 things are essential to not just believe but to work out in front of others, be the light. I believe the whole word of God to be inspired and relevant today. and I have not heard any teachers of MJ teach contrary to that. I use the name Yeshua not because Jesus is wrong, I use the name because it means He Saves. I respect the name Jesus, he saved me from the pit of drugs and alcohol. Also my mother is a Jew and hopefully God will help me to bring her to Yeshua through my walk. That's all I have, like I said I am pretty new you may want to ask one of the others on MJ forum some have been in it for 30+ years. They would definitely have more answers than I have. What about you what do you indetify with and why?

 

[watchman 2]

I am pretty new to MJ so I would probably not be the best person to sum it all up for you but I can give you the reasons I choose to believe in it. I choose MJ because they want to keep the commandments of God and have faith in Jesus (Yeshua). I think that those 2 things are essential to not just believe but to work out in front of others, be the light. I believe the whole word of God to be inspired and relevant today. and I have not heard any teachers of MJ teach contrary to that. I use the name Yeshua not because Jesus is wrong, I use the name because it means He Saves. I respect the name Jesus, he saved me from the pit of drugs and alcohol. Also my mother is a Jew and hopefully God will help me to bring her to Yeshua through my walk. That's all I have, like I said I am pretty new you may want to ask one of the others on MJ forum some have been in it for 30+ years. They would definitely have more answers than I have. What about you what do you indetify with and why?

 

[watchman 2]

w2

 

[watchman 2]

Here's the facts i'm presenting. None of which have been challenged.

The English has no verb for the noun Faith as the Greek does. fact.

The translators chose to use the words believe, believer, and believing. those words are only a part of pisteuo , but taken alone are a mistranslation. fact

The strongs gives a disclaimer in it's definition that "pisteuo means not just to believe." fact

The Vines defines pisteuo as " A personal surrender to Him, and a conduct inspired by such surrender." fact

The words the English language "should" have had to translate pisteuo are , faithe, faither , and faithing. fact

Because pisteuo was mistranslated "into" English, it's also mistranslated back out of the English. fact

The writers could not have intended that pisteuo was just "belief" in Gods Word , because when they were writing the letter s, there was no Gods Word. fact

The word pisteuo in it's correct definition (continual surrendering of our lives) could not only work and be fulfilled today , but could work and be fulfilled before the 1500's when Gods Word started to be circulated to the masses. That means , that God could call anyone He pleases , and they could re pond with saving Faith ( pisteuo ) that would result in the sealing of the Holy Spirit. They couldn't have "believed" in Gods Word because it would not have been available to them. fact

What works for saving Faith today , had to work the same for the people before Gods Word was available . Saving Faith in the application of is, "A personal surrender to Him, and a life inspired by such surrender." fact

Unless these facts can be proven false, this is the truth and will stand as such.

 

[Dave-W]

The fact that the English did not have a word in it's dictionary to communicate the most important word in the Scriptures is just mind boggling.

Why? English is not a good language - especially for biblical texts.

Mostly because the English language does not have a word to communicate the Greek word "pisteuo." Did God allow this to happen? Of coarse He did ! Why did He allow this to happen should be the real conversation.

Perhaps to get us all up off the couch and start learning Hebrew and Greek.

 

[Dave-W]

Because pisteuo was mistranslated "into" English, it's also mistranslated back out of the English. fact

Why is anyone translating FROM English? That is just dumb.

 

[Dave-W]

The words the English language "should" have had to translate pisteuo are , faithe, faither , and faithing.

Not sure those would be the right words or the only words; but they are a viable option.

 

[watchman 2]

Why is anyone translating FROM English? That is just dumb.

 

[watchman 2]

Not sure those would be the right words or the only words; but they are a viable option.

 

[watchman 2]

Why? English is not a good language - especially for biblical texts.

Perhaps to get us all up off the couch and start learning Hebrew and Greek.