The Mark of the Beast and How America Fits Into End Time Prophecy

cgaviria

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This is entirely false. God is almighty, omnipotent, infinite in terms of power. This means He can choose to occupy His creation if He so desires. As it happens, He took onto Himself our fallen human nature in order to glorify it.

Jesus Christ came to the earth, not the Father. Have you not read,
"But will God really dwell on earth? The heavens, even the highest heaven, cannot contain you. How much less this temple I have built! (1 Kings 8:27 [NIV])

Even in Acts it is said,
Yet the Most High does not dwell in houses made by hands, as the prophet says, (Acts 7:48 [ESV])

These things pertain to the Father, and a finite place cannot contain an infinite God, and to actually suggest that is an insult to God. So thus, any place that has been created by the Father, cannot contain him.
 
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cgaviria

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Show me in scripture. Otherwise this is just your opinion.

The Bible speaks of Simon Peter's house. It never speaks of him renting.

And there are several houses that are mentioned by name in which churches meet.

Beware of teaching as doctrines the rules of men. Most of all, beware of self-righteousness.

Here is the scripture,
For two whole years Paul stayed there in his own rented house and welcomed all who came to see him. (Acts 28:30 [NIV])

And clearly if the apostles were having everyone sell all their properties, they would not themselves later be acquiring houses to own, so Paul renting his home reflects what all the other believers also did if they lived in homes, they rented. This also reflects the mindset of a sojourner, or a traveler, as a traveler that is going to stay in one place for only one week doesn't buy a land to only stay in it for the week, he rents a room at a hotel for that week. Same concept here.
 
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civilwarbuff

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Jesus Christ came to the earth, not the Father. Have you not read,


Even in Acts it is said,


These things pertain to the Father, and a finite place cannot contain an infinite God, and to actually suggest that is an insult to God. So thus, any place that has been created by the Father, cannot contain him.
1 Cor 2:14.....again.....
 
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nomadictheist

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Here is the scripture,


And clearly if the apostles were having everyone sell all their properties, they would not themselves later be acquiring houses to own, so Paul renting his home reflects what all the other believers also did if they lived in homes, they rented. This also reflects the mindset of a sojourner, or a traveler, as a traveler that is going to stay in one place for only one week doesn't buy a land to only stay in it for the week, he rents a room at a hotel for that week. Same concept here.
That's Paul, not Peter. You claimed Simon Peter rented a house. Show it from scripture.

Paul rented houses or lived in the homes of the believers. That's because Paul was an apostle and an evangelist. He didn't stay in the same place very long (until he was imprisoned in Rome, of course).

So again, prove to me from scripture that Peter rented a house/apartment.
 
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Commander Xenophon

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Jesus Christ came to the earth, not the Father.

Jesus Christ, like the Father, and the Holy Spirit, is God. You simply edited your Bible to omit this fact.

Have you not read,

Creation cannot contain God, but God can contain Himself in creation. This is why we venerate the Theotokos amd regard the Temple as a Mariological prophecy according to type.

Even in Acts it is said,

The humanity of Jesus Christ is not "made by hands."
These things pertain to the Father, and a finite place cannot contain an infinite God, and to actually suggest that is an insult to God. So thus, any place that has been created by the Father, cannot contain him.

What is an insult to God is to deny His divinity, to blaspheme against the Holy Spirit, and to mock his followers.
 
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nomadictheist

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Here is the scripture,


And clearly if the apostles were having everyone sell all their properties, they would not themselves later be acquiring houses to own, so Paul renting his home reflects what all the other believers also did if they lived in homes, they rented. This also reflects the mindset of a sojourner, or a traveler, as a traveler that is going to stay in one place for only one week doesn't buy a land to only stay in it for the week, he rents a room at a hotel for that week. Same concept here.
Also, show me where it says the apostles were having people sell their properties. (And please don't go to Acts 8, as (1) this does not describe the apostles instructing anyone to sell property, but describes people selling it out of their own generosity, and (2) the property that was sold was said to be "a piece of property" he owned and not his home).
 
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cgaviria

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Jesus Christ, like the Father, and the Holy Spirit, is God. You simply edited your Bible to omit this fact.



Creation cannot contain God, but God can contain Himself in creation. This is why we venerate the Theotokos amd regard the Temple as a Mariological prophecy according to type.



The humanity of Jesus Christ is not "made by hands."


What is an insult to God is to deny His divinity, to blaspheme against the Holy Spirit, and to mock his followers.

The Father can indeed contain himself in creation by having an image of himself inhabit creation, which is why he sent his very own representation into creation, Jesus Christ, who is a finite being that can inhabit creation, in full representation of the Father, and thus in Jesus Christ inhabiting creation the Father is inhabiting creation, although the Father himself is not inhabiting it, as creation itself cannot be inhabited by him.
 
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cgaviria

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Also, show me where it says the apostles were having people sell their properties. (And please don't go to Acts 8, as (1) this does not describe the apostles instructing anyone to sell property, but describes people selling it out of their own generosity, and (2) the property that was sold was said to be "a piece of property" he owned and not his home).

Read this short study,

There are many who do not understand the teachings of Jesus concerning humility, and why he told people to sell all their possessions, and then follow him, as we see in this verse,
Jesus said to him, If you want to be perfect, go away and sell your possessions, and give to poor ones! and you shall have treasure in heaven. And come, follow me! (Matthew 19:21 [ABP])

Is this a teaching that has become obsolete in favor of a modern luxurious and decadent life? First, before answering this, let us look at this old proverb that was written even before Jesus was born in the flesh,
Keep deception and lies far from me, Give me neither poverty nor riches; Feed me with the food that is my portion, (Proverbs 30:8 [NASB])

In mentioning "feed me with food" as opposed to giving me riches or poverty, this proverb is referring to the nourishment of the body as the most basic need we should ask for. The two most basic needs related to the nourishment of the body for the body to live are food and water. The third and final need, although not necessary to live, but instead, needed to cover our nakedness, is clothing. These three things are the most basic needs, and they are food, water, and clothing. Even Jesus made mention of these same three basic needs here,
Do not then be anxious! saying, What shall we eat, or what shall we drink, or what should be worn? (Matthew 6:31 [ABP])

Yet even before he made mention of these three basic needs of life, he spoke concerning this,
No one is able to serve two masters; for the one he will detest, and the other love; or the one he will hold to, and the other he will disdain; you are not able to serve God and mammon. (Matthew 6:24 [ABP])

What is mammon? Mammon is wealth, riches, and excess of possessions. So here we have two polar opposites, which are,
  • Sell all your possessions as Jesus instructed, and believe in God to provide you with the basic needs of life, which are food, water, and clothing. This is the way involving serving God.
  • Or, continue having wealth, riches, and excess of possessions. This is the way involving serving mammon.
What are possessions? Possessions is anything you own, which also includes property. Your clothes, your house, your car, your furniture, your television, these are all possessions you own. Not only did Jesus instruct whomever he encountered to sell all their possessions, but this was also the same instruction the apostles gave to anyone who came to the belief of Jesus,
And the possessions and the things of substance they sold, and they divided them to all in so far as anyone had need. (Acts 2:45 [ABP])

Notice how this scripture makes a distinction between "possessions" and "things of substance". As we said earlier, "possessions" includes everything you own, but "things of substance" is something more specific than possessions. "Things of substance" is property, or houses. The Greek word for "things of substance" is "huparxis", which specifically conveys "property". The same word is used in the following verse, although this translation renders the word as "possession" as well, losing its actual meaning of "property" specifically,
For both in my bonds you sympathized; and the seizure of your possessions with joy you accepted, knowing to have in yourselves a better possession in heavens, and abiding. (Hebrews 10:34 [ABP])

What is this better possession in the heavens? It is a house, a property, a mansion, in the heavens, prepared and given to each true believer that is chosen. This is why Jesus says,
In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. (John 14:2 [KJV])

These mansions are the "better properties" of those that are elect, which are kept safely in heaven so that they may not be broken into as properties on the earth are. That same verse Hebrews 10:34 I quoted earlier, describes this same reasoning, and is translated more clearly in the ESV than the APB in referencing earthy "properties" that are broken into,
For you had compassion on those in prison, and you joyfully accepted the plundering of your property, since you knew that you yourselves had a better possession and an abiding one. (Hebrews 10:34 [ESV])

So because properties on earth can be broken into, is another reason to store treasures in heaven, where thieves are not able to go up there and steal. And Jesus even said here,
Sell your possessions, and give charity! Make to yourselves bags not growing old! a treasure unceasing in the heavens, where thief shall not approach nor moth ruin. (Luke 12:33 [ABP])

So when are these mansions given to elect? When the new heavens and new earth is brought forth into existence, and the New Jerusalem comes down from heaven, which is the new heavenly city that will have these mansions and treasures that are prepared for the elect. Now, why is this distinction between possessions and properties of importance? Because Jesus was instructing to sell all your properties. The selling of properties coincides with this verse in the Book of Acts,
For neither anyone lacking existed among them; for as many as were owners of places or houses existing to them, by selling they brought the value of the things being sold, (Acts 4:34 [ABP])

These believers were selling all their properties, as no believer should own property, which is why they sold all their properties. So if indeed they sold all their properties, where did they live? Some of them became apostles, such as Paul, going city to city, spreading the gospel and staying in someone's house for a short while until they went off to the next house, and others, rented their homes. We see evidence of renting even with Paul,
And Paul stayed a whole space of two years in his own hired house, and gladly received all the ones entering to him, (Acts 28:30 [ABP])

So while these early believers were selling all their properties, what were the possessions that they were also selling, since Acts 2:45 above made a distinction between the two? It was all the possessions they didn't need. This coincides with this scripture,
And answering he says to them, The one having two inner garments, share with the one not having! And the one having foods, in like manner do! (Luke 3:11 [ABP])

So in selling all properties, and selling all unnecessary possessions, what was left over to be had? Only the things that were needed, which goes back to the beginning of this study, concerning the most basic "needs". Bringing yourself down to these basic needs of only food, water, and clothes is possibly the lowest you can go in terms of humility, and this is indeed necessary for the ministry of apostleship, as Jesus also gave these instructions to the apostles,
[3] Go! behold, I send you as lambs in the midst of wolves. [4] Do not bear a bag, nor provision, nor sandals! and no one in the way should you greet. [5] And into which ever house you should enter, first say! Peace to this house. [6] And if there might be there a son of peace, your peace shall rest upon him; but if not, unto you it shall return. [7] And in the same house abide! eating and drinking the things of theirs; for the worker is worthy of his wage! Do not cross over from house to house! [8] And into what ever city you should enter, and they should receive you, eat the things being placed near to you!
(Luke 10:3-8 [ABP])

Bringing yourself down to the basic needs of life is also why Jesus says,
For I say to you, a greater born among women than the prophet John the baptist no one is. But the lesser in the kingdom of God is greater than he. (Luke 7:28 [ABP])

The less you become, the greater you will become in the kingdom of God. This lessening of yourself by selling off of possessions and all properties is what humbling yourself truly means. There are many who think that humbling yourself is just a state of mind, or merely just praying constantly, but humbling yourself is in fact having all to do with ridding yourself all properties and possessions you don't need, which coincides with this proverb,
The LORD resists the proud, but gives favor to the humble. (Proverbs 3:34 [ABP])

Meaning that when you truly humble yourself, then God show you favor, but while you are still in your excess, he will resist you. This is why the early believers sold all their possessions and all their properties, so that they can then be favored by God to be granted repentance and thus receive the gift of his holy spirit. This is why Jesus also said,
"So the last will be first, and the first will be last." (Matthew 20:16 [NIV])

The first are those who are in excess of possessions, and the last are those who humble themselves and make themselves have little. When the time comes, those that made themselves first, will be made last, and those that made themselves last, will be first. Again, Jesus says here,
For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted. (Matthew 23:12 [NIV])

Those who exalt themselves are the ones who make themselves first and give themselves more than what they need, and those who humble themselves are those who make themselves last and sell of all properties and also all possessions they do not need. Yet even so, should all that are called sell absolutely everything and bring themselves down to only food, water, and clothes? No, because just as each has a measure of belief given to him, so each has a measure of how much they will humble themselves,
For I say by the favor being given to me, to every one being among you, to not be high-minded above what you must think; but to think to be of a sound mind; to each as God portioned a measure of belief. (Romans 12:3 [ABP])

And even so, there were members of the early assemblies that still lived in homes, and did not make themselves "homeless" as the apostles were, going city to city, as we read here,
You greet the brethren in Laodicea, and Nymphas, and the assembly in his house! (Colossians 4:15 [ABP])
and the assembly at their house. Greet Epaenetus my beloved, who is a first-fruit of Achaia for Christ! (Romans 16:5 [ABP])
and to Apphia the beloved, and Archippus our fellow-soldier, and to the assembly at your house. (Philemon 1:2 [ABP])

The assembling of the brethren, or what we call "churches" in today's time, was done in the homes, and it still must be done this way, but this is another topic entirely that I will explain in a another study. Going further, Jesus also says, the least among you, is the greatest, which also indicates that there is a measure of how "least" you become, and this even coincides with,
Amen I say to you, There has not been arisen among ones born of women greater than John the Baptist; but the lesser in the kingdom of the heavens is greater than he. (Matthew 11:11 [ABP])

Again, indicating that there are those who become lesser than others, yet in being lesser, they are indeed greater. How are they greater? Because the lesser you become, the greater your reward will be, which coincides with this saying,
But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. (Matthew 6:20 [NIV])

"Storing up" conveys the truth that these "treasures" in heaven can be accumulated by how "less" you become. Yet not even in lessening and humbling yourself are treasures stored in heaven, but also in sufferings as well, as it is even said here,
Women received back their dead, raised to life again. There were others who were tortured, refusing to be released so that they might gain an even better resurrection. (Hebrews 11:35 [NIV])

All these things, how far down you humble yourself, and the amount of sufferings you endure as well, in this present time, all relate to how great your reward will be. How far you humble yourself, and your measure of belief, also relate to what type of ministry you will undertake in the assemblies of God, which are,
And he gave some indeed for apostles, and some prophets, and some evangelists; but some shepherds and teachers, (Ephesians 4:11 [ABP])

Yet of all these, the ministry of apostleship specifically involves the bringing yourself down to the lowest basic needs of life, which are food, water, and clothes, and going city to city spreading the gospel and calling people to repentance. This type of ministry could be what we call today as the "missionary", yet an apostle does not always necessarily have to go to remote parts of the earth to be an apostle. An apostle can do the work of an apostle even in America. So, going back, these believers were selling their possessions, and their properties, and then in this verse we also read,
And the multitude of the ones believing was of one heart and soul; and not even one said anything existing to him to be his own; but all things were in common to them. (Acts 4:32 [ABP])

So if indeed these believers were selling their possessions and their properties, what was then left over that was said to be shared among all believers, as it says, "not even one said anything existing to him to be his own"? After they sold their possessions and all their properties, they were left with basic possessions they needed, such as needed clothes, needed furniture, needed things around the house, like needed utensils, and even also money of the things that were sold. This is the base level of humility all believers must come down to at the very least, yet if God has put it in your heart to go even lower in humility, then you ought to go even lower than this to the level of just basic needs of life, to thus receive a greater reward and possibly go into ministry of apostleship. In keeping the money of the things they sold, they then shared as each had need, which even those that were "rich" having alot of money did as well, which coincides with this verse,
Command them to do good, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share. (1 Timothy 6:18 [NIV])

Having alot of money is not evil, but rather, it is how you live where the evil is. You can have alot of money, yet live like a poor and humble man. Yet it is indeed harder for someone who is wealthy to come into the kingdom of God, because many who have an abundance, do not want to bring themselves down to live like a poor man. This is why Jesus said,
Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God. (Matthew 19:24 [NIV])

Going further, the basic necessities that the early believers had left over after they sold their possessions and all their properties were the things they then shared with each other, which also coincides with this verse,
And all the believers met together in one place and shared everything they had. (Acts 2:44 [NLT])

So what are the reasons that one must humble themselves in this literal way? First because it reflects the mindset of a traveler, or also called, a sojourner. Does a traveler visiting a city for a few days never coming back to that city buy a house to only stay in it for those few days or does he merely just reserve a hotel room? Does a traveler going to this same city for a few days bring his entire house of furniture and possessions or does he merely travel lightly? This is indeed the same reasoning behind those that are true believers, who travel lightly with the things necessary, and also rent if living in a home is necessary. True believers are indeed sojourners of the present eon, as it is even said here,
Beloved, I appeal to you as sojourners and immigrants, to be at a distance from the fleshy desires, which soldier against the soul; (I Peter 2:11 [ABP])

So therefore, renting is the mindset of a sojourner, knowing very well that living in the present eon is temporary and short, and that an incorruptible property will be given to those who remain faithful in Jesus Christ and are humble sojourners in the present eon. Yet those who become poor now, will be made wealthy in the time to come. This is also why Jesus said,
Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth. (Matthew 5:5 [ESV])

The meek, the poor, the humble, the last, these are the ones that will inherit the kingdom of God. Going further, Paul also says,
For a root of all the evils is the fondness of money, of which some reaching for were led astray from the belief, and pierced themselves on all sides with many griefs. (I Timothy 6:10 [ABP])

The love of money is what leads any man to go beyond what all true believers are called to do, to humble themselves by having the basic necessities of life. This is also why the Book of Revelation calls the roman catholic church the "prostitute of Babylon", because her existence as a church relates to her giving herself over to money, to have abundance of possessions and wealth. Look at the Vatican, and the wealth that exists in St. Peter's Basilica, and within Vatican City, and even in all the catholic churches. These are visible signs that correspond to a church given over to money and wealth, hence a "prostitute". And not only her, but all the megachurches, even the regular churches, and also denominations that stem from her, whether catholic or protestant, who do the same things the catholic church does in making themselves wealthy, and are thus the "daughter prostitutes of the great prostitute". These are all things that relate to money and having excess of possessions, and being given over to pleasures of life.
 
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Commander Xenophon

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The Father can indeed contain himself in creation by having an image of himself inhabit creation, which is why he sent his very own representation into creation, Jesus Christ, who is a finite being that can inhabit creation, in full representation of the Father, and thus in Jesus Christ inhabiting creation the Father is inhabiting creation, although the Father himself is not inhabiting it, as creation itself cannot be inhabited by him.

Jesus Christ is finite only according to His assumed humanity; otherwise He would not be known as Emmanuel, for God would not be with Him. Jesus Christ is infinite according to His uncreated divinity.
 
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cgaviria

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Jesus Christ is finite only according to His assumed humanity; otherwise He would not be known as Emmanuel, for God would not be with Him. Jesus Christ is infinite according to His uncreated divinity.

Jesus Christ is not infinite, only the Father is infinite and that glory belongs to the Father only.
 
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Commander Xenophon

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Jesus Christ is not infinite, only the Father is infinite and that glory belongs to the Father only.

No, God is infinite and Jesus Christ, being God (John 1:1-14) participates in that infinity along with the Father and the Holy Spirit. One God, uncreated, almighty, all knowing.
 
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cgaviria

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No, God is infinite and Jesus Christ, being God (John 1:1-14) participates in that infinity along with the Father and the Holy Spirit. One God, uncreated, almighty, all knowing.

Jesus Christ is not infinite, hence why he doesn't even know the hour of his coming. Jesus Christ also does not know the numbers of hairs on everyone's heads. Jesus Christ also does not know how many atoms are composed in every person on earth. This is only knowledge that the Father has, as he alone is infinite. Jesus Christ also does not predetermine things, the Father alone does this, because he alone is infinite, and can even predetermine this very moment happening. Jesus Christ cannot.
 
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Commander Xenophon

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Jesus Christ is not infinite, hence why he doesn't even know the hour of his coming.

Only according to His humanity. He could access this information according to His divinity.

Jesus Christ also does not know how many atoms are composed in every person on earth.

An unscriptural claim. I can't believe how you expect us to just discard actual scripture based on your opinions about what it should say or how its contradictory, and then ask us to believe something like that.

This is only knowledge that the Father has, as he alone is infinite. Jesus Christ also does not predetermine things, the Father alone does this, because he alone is infinite, and can even predetermine this very moment happening. Jesus Christ cannot.

Not true; since Jesus Christ created all things (yes, all things), He predetermines as much as the Father or the Spirit.
 
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cgaviria

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Only according to His humanity. He could access this information according to His divinity.



An unscriptural claim. I can't believe how you expect us to just discard actual scripture based on your opinions about what it should say or how its contradictory, and then ask us to believe something like that.



Not true; since Jesus Christ created all things (yes, all things), He predetermines as much as the Father or the Spirit.

It's not unsciptural, Jesus Christ said, only the Father knows the hour of the coming of the son of Man, so right there, do you see a limitation of knowledge. And why? Because Jesus Christ is a finite being. And its evident that he is finite, because he inhabited the earth. A finite creation cannot be inhabited an infinite being. Its like trying to fit unlimited amount of megabytes into a 100 MB disk drive. The 100 MB disk drive cannot contain unlimited storage. Even Jesus Christ, has a certain limit of storage, he cannot know every granular detail of everything, as he is finite. Only the Father has unlimited knowledge, and it is from him that all, including Jesus Christ, receive knowledge.
 
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supersoldier71

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Are you stalking my comings and goings from my house?
No, I'm noticing that your theology is abysmal.

I mean, the stuff you spout would LITERALLY send somebody to the abyss.

Perhaps if you unlocked your OODA loop, you could, you know, gain insight into what is actually said in the Word of God rather than your deeply (critically, fatally, would-be-comically-if-it-weren't-so-important) flawed conclusions.
 
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cgaviria

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No, I'm noticing that your theology is abysmal.

I mean, the stuff you spout would LITERALLY send somebody to the abyss.

Perhaps if you unlocked your OODA loop, you could, you know, gain insight into what is actually said in the Word of God rather than your deeply (critically, fatally, would-be-comically-if-it-weren't-so-important) flawed conclusions.

And I should take advise from you why? If you wish to refute anything I have said, then provide scriptures. Otherwise, what is your sarcastic heresay to me?
 
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supersoldier71

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And I should take advise from you why? If you wish to refute anything I have said, then provide scriptures. Otherwise, what is your sarcastic heresay to me?

Take it as you wish, bro.

You dropped this stuff on an internet forum, you know that it's provocative if not thought-provoking, you've spammed about a zillion of these in the controversial theology section over the last week, and then act funky when somebody (and God knows, I'm not the only one doing it) calls you on this crap.

Might want to think about a hobby also, when you get a minute.
 
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cgaviria

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Take it as you wish, bro.

You dropped this stuff on an internet forum, you know that it's provocative if not thought-provoking, you've spammed about a zillion of these in the controversial theology section over the last week, and then act funky when somebody (and God knows, I'm not the only one doing it) calls you on this crap.

Might want to think about a hobby also, when you get a minute.

Then dont read what I have to say. And if you don't care about what I have to say, then why should you care about what hobbies I undertake? Perhaps you should just get lost, bro, and not give me this pathetic rant, because it is a rant, not a response providing scripture to try to refute what I have said.
 
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