The Lord Jeus Christ isn't your good buddy.

[ToBeLoved]

He created us with a will and Adam did have freedom to choose un-coerced but since Adam we are slaves to our sinful nature and our wills are not free. We love Him because He first loved us. He makes us love Him by giving us a new will and a new heart. It is His work in us and for us from first to last.

That is not what Romans says.

Romans 5:18-20
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous

Romans 6:2-4
How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life

Romans 6:6-8
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin

 

[twin1954]

That is not what Romans says.

Romans 5:18-20
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous

Romans 6:2-4
How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life

Romans 6:6-8
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin

You do err not knowing the Scriptures, Matt. 22:29. Rom. 5 is Paul showing the headship of Adam and the Headship of Christ. Is teaches original sin and that in exactly the same way all the seed of Adam became sinners in Adam by natural generation all the seed of Christ are made righteous by the obedience of Christ by spiritual generation.

Rom. 6 is speaking to and about those who have been born from above and believe. It is about believers not unbelievers.

Rom. 3:9-20 is a clear description of all men by nature. Paul clearly describes us in our natural state as dead in trespasses and sin in Eph. 2:1 and Col. 2:13.

Jer.17 :9 clearly says that the heart is deceitful above all things and we don't even know it.

The Scriptures declare that in our natural state we are slaves to sin and are as prisoners sitting in darkness.

Your idea of free will is an imaginary idol and you should quit bowing down to it.

 

[twin1954]

I wasn't suggesting that you were trying to hide something. What I said is that you have, unknowingly of course, revealed what you think of God. It seems you would rather make God to be as unable as man is in the accomplishment of His will than to give up a false notion of your free will. You make God to be less than He is in order to retain your imagined sovereignty in your eternal destiny. That, of course, is what you revealed by your statement that God hopes.

I ask you again to respond to this. Did you or did you not reveal how low a view of God you have when you said that He hopes?

 

[ToBeLoved]

You do err not knowing the Scriptures, Matt. 22:29. Rom. 5 is Paul showing the headship of Adam and the Headship of Christ. Is teaches original sin and that in exactly the same way all the seed of Adam became sinners in Adam by natural generation all the seed of Christ are made righteous by the obedience of Christ by spiritual generation.

Rom. 6 is speaking to and about those who have been born from above and believe. It is about believers not unbelievers.

Rom. 3:9-20 is a clear description of all men by nature. Paul clearly describes us in our natural state as dead in trespasses and sin in Eph. 2:1 and Col. 2:13.

Jer.17 :9 clearly says that the heart is deceitful above all things and we don't even know it.

The Scriptures declare that in our natural state we are slaves to sin and are as prisoners sitting in darkness.

Your idea of free will is an imaginary idol and you should quit bowing down to it.

You deny the power of the blood of the Son of God. In being born-again we die to sin. We are crucified with Christ to sin.

Romans 6:2-4
How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life

Romans 6:6-8
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin

Right there in the Word.

"We, that are DEAD to sin"

"The body of sin might be destroyed."

"He that is dead is FREE from sin"

Jesus CONQUERED sin. In Jesus Christ, we are DEAD to sin. Sin holds no sting.



Now we do still have our sin nature which is why we have the mind of Christ and the Holy Spirit to convict us of our sin.

HOWEVER. NO SIN that WE commit can UNDO that we have been sealed with the Holy Spirit as a guarantee of our inheritance in Christ Jesus.

That is where we disagree. You think that YOUR sin can UNDO what CHRIST DID.

NOTHING can UNDO A PROMISE OF GOD.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Your idea of free will is an imaginary idol and you should quit bowing down to it.

This is rude. Please do not be rude if you want to hold a conversation. This is not Christ-like. I do not have idols and I bow down to NO ONE but Jesus Christ.

 

[twin1954]

This is rude. Please do not be rude if you want to hold a conversation. This is not Christ-like. I do not have idols and I bow down to NO ONE but Jesus Christ.

I wasn't being rude I was being truthful. If your free will is not an idol then why defend it so vigorously? I apologize if I offended you but I find often that nothing but bluntness will do. You have avoided my question in every response you have given. Please, I ask you again, respond to my post and the question of whether my statement is true and why it isn't.

 

[twin1954]

You deny the power of the blood of the Son of God. In being born-again we die to sin. We are crucified with Christ to sin.

Romans 6:2-4
How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life

Romans 6:6-8
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin

Right there in the Word.

"We, that are DEAD to sin"

"The body of sin might be destroyed."

"He that is dead is FREE from sin"

Jesus CONQUERED sin. In Jesus Christ, we are DEAD to sin. Sin holds no sting.



Now we do still have our sin nature which is why we have the mind of Christ and the Holy Spirit to convict us of our sin.

HOWEVER. NO SIN that WE commit can UNDO that we have been sealed with the Holy Spirit as a guarantee of our inheritance in Christ Jesus.

That is where we disagree. You think that YOUR sin can UNDO what CHRIST DID.

NOTHING can UNDO A PROMISE OF GOD.

Please show me where I have even implied anything of the kind. You are putting words in my mouth and building a straw man. You are not refuting my posts, I have to wonder if you are even reading them, but going off on some tangent that you imagine is a rebuttal.

I take the time to respond to you line by line and address each of your points and I would appreciate the same diligence.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I wasn't being rude I was being truthful. If your free will is not an idol then why defend it so vigorously? I apologize if I offended you but I find often that nothing but bluntness will do. You have avoided my question in every response you have given. Please, I ask you again, respond to my post and the question of whether my statement is true and why it isn't.

Well what proof have you offered that we do not have free-will.

I was very detailed in why Adam & Eve having the ability to choose to eat the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil gave them free will.

You never disputed that with anything, so where is YOUR TRUTH?

Dispute it then.

Instead of petty insults I ask only for the Word of God to show me what you have said. Is that what this conversation has come to? Petty insults because you cannot prove your stance?

 

[ToBeLoved]

dup.

 

[ToBeLoved]

You said that there are sins that lead to spiritual death.

But Romans says that we are dead to sin. It no longer has a hold over us. We died with Christ to sin. He that is dead is free of sin.

So we cannot die a spiritual death because of sin. Period.

Romans 6:2-4
How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life

Romans 6:6-8
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin

 

[twin1954]

Well what proof have you offered that we do not have free-will.

See pose #302.

I was very detailed in why Adam & Eve having the ability to choose to eat the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil gave them free will.

You never disputed that with anything, so where is YOUR TRUTH?

Apparently you are not reading my posts or are ignoring the main points of them.

Dispute it then.

I have and will.

Instead of petty insults I ask only for the Word of God to show me what you have said. Is that what this conversation has come to? Petty insults because you cannot prove your stance?

I have proven my stance time and again. You have not dealt with any of the Scriptures I have given from the beginning of this conversation. It isn't me that refuses to deal with the Scriptures.

I ask what was it that God promised to Adam would happen when he ate of the fruit? Gen. 2:17.

Did that result follow with all Adam's posterity?

 

[twin1954]

You said that there are sins that lead to spiritual death.

But Romans says that we are dead to sin. It no longer has a hold over us. We died with Christ to sin. He that is dead is free of sin.

So we cannot die a spiritual death because of sin. Period.

Romans 6:2-4
How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life

Romans 6:6-8
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin

Please show me where I ever said such a thing. Again you are putting words in my mouth.

Is your stance that every person in the world is born again?

 

[ToBeLoved]

See pose #302.
Apparently you are not reading my posts or are ignoring the main points of them.

Just to show you that I am going to reply to all of your posts, I will go back and reply to post #302.

Just for you, because you are one of CHrist's own.

 

[twin1954]

Well what proof have you offered that we do not have free-will.

I was very detailed in why Adam & Eve having the ability to choose to eat the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil gave them free will.

You never disputed that with anything, so where is YOUR TRUTH?

Dispute it then.

Instead of petty insults I ask only for the Word of God to show me what you have said. Is that what this conversation has come to? Petty insults because you cannot prove your stance?

Again no answer. You are deflecting and throwing up red herrings in order to not deal with the truth. If we are to come to some conclusion you must actually deal with my points rather than avoiding them. I do not give petty insults I merely say what I believe clearly and bluntly when it seems to be required. If you can, deal directly with my posts and answer the Scriptures given in them. I answered the ones you gave didn't I?

 

[ToBeLoved]

You do err not knowing the Scriptures, Matt. 22:29. Rom. 5 is Paul showing the headship of Adam and the Headship of Christ. Is teaches original sin and that in exactly the same way all the seed of Adam became sinners in Adam by natural generation all the seed of Christ are made righteous by the obedience of Christ by spiritual generation.

Rom. 6 is speaking to and about those who have been born from above and believe. It is about believers not unbelievers.

Rom. 3:9-20 is a clear description of all men by nature. Paul clearly describes us in our natural state as dead in trespasses and sin in Eph. 2:1 and Col. 2:13.

Jer.17 :9 clearly says that the heart is deceitful above all things and we don't even know it.

The Scriptures declare that in our natural state we are slaves to sin and are as prisoners sitting in darkness.

Your idea of free will is an imaginary idol and you should quit bowing down to it.

I agree with original sin. I agree that we have a sin nature.

So much more do we need the forgiveness of Jesus Christ.

That's my response to paragraph one.

Romans 6 IS talking about believers. That is what I have been saying. That believers have died with Christ to sin and have been crucified with Christ to sin. That is why I listed these verses from Romans 6.

Romans 6:2-4
How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life

Romans 6:6-8
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin

So these verses in Romans 6 pertains to US. YOU AND I.

Then you go back to Romans 3:9-20 and yes we have a sin nature. And yes we do not loose that sin nature, but HE is fair and just to forgive us our sins when we fall. However that DOES NOT mean that our sin nature can cause spiritual death, because Romans 6:2-4 and Romans 6:6-8 CLEARLY states that sin has no dominion over us under the blood of Christ. So SIN CANNOT CAUSE SPIRITUAL DEATH because Jesus Christ has paid that sin debt IN FULL.

That's where you are going wrong. Our sin and our sin nature cannot UNDO what Christ has done under the New Covenant.

In sin, we are dead to our sin, but Jesus FORGIVES sin. In forgiveness Jesus casts our sin AS FAR as the east is from the west. To not be spoken of again.

So how can my sin lead to spiritual death?

 

[ToBeLoved]

Again no answer. You are deflecting and throwing up red herrings in order to not deal with the truth. If we are to come to some conclusion you must actually deal with my points rather than avoiding them. I do not give petty insults I merely say what I believe clearly and bluntly when it seems to be required. If you can, deal directly with my posts and answer the Scriptures given in them. I answered the ones you gave didn't I?

Ok. You are on an insult kick. I'm going to go away so I do not insult you back, because you are really ticking me off now.

I went back to your post #302, but you cannot give me 10 minutes to respond, in two minutes you are insulting me.

How often do you not sin? You are long suffering in your patience I see. Way to follow God's Word bud.

If you gave me 50% of the respect I have given you we would get along fine. But I see that you are not capable of that. Sad but true.

 

[twin1954]

I agree with original sin. I agree that we have a sin nature.

So much more do we need the forgiveness of Jesus Christ.

That's my response to paragraph one.

Romans 6 IS talking about believers. That is what I have been saying. That believers have died with Christ to sin and have been crucified with Christ to sin. That is why I listed these verses from Romans 6.

Romans 6:2-4
How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life

Romans 6:6-8
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin

So these verses in Romans 6 pertains to US. YOU AND I.

Then you go back to Romans 3:9-20 and yes we have a sin nature. And yes we do not loose that sin nature, but HE is fair and just to forgive us our sins when we fall. However that DOES NOT mean that our sin nature can cause spiritual death, because Romans 6:2-4 and Romans 6:6-8 CLEARLY states that sin has no dominion over us under the blood of Christ. So SIN CANNOT CAUSE SPIRITUAL DEATH because Jesus Christ has paid that sin debt IN FULL.

That's where you are going wrong. Our sin and our sin nature cannot UNDO what Christ has done under the New Covenant.

In sin, we are dead to our sin, but Jesus FORGIVES sin. In forgiveness Jesus casts our sin AS FAR as the east is from the west. To not be spoken of again.

So how can my sin lead to spiritual death?

Now I begin to see where you misunderstand my statements.

Sin cannot lead to spiritual death for the believer. The sin of the believer has been put away by the sacrifice of Christ, Heb. 9:26.

But you seem to suggest that the sin of unbelievers was put away as well and that they are not spiritually dead. Is that your contention? Do you believe that all men are alive spiritually because Christ has put away their sins?

Rom. 3, Eph. 2:1 and Jer. 17:9 teach what our natural state is. Unbelievers are in their natural state and sit in darkness. They are slaves to sin and are not free. The natural man, unbelievers, have no free will.

It is true that they have a will but it is bound to their sinful nature and cannot come to Christ unless they have been born of God. Faith is the result of the new birth not the cause of it.

 

[twin1954]

Ok. You are on an insult kick. I'm going to go away so I do not insult you back, because you are really ticking me off now.

I went back to your post #302, but you cannot give me 10 minutes to respond, in two minutes you are insulting me.

How often do you not sin? You are long suffering in your patience I see. Way to follow God's Word bud.

If you gave me 50% of the respect I have given you we would get along fine. But I see that you are not capable of that. Sad but true.

I was writing that post while you were posting that you would go back and answer post 302. I didn't see your post until after I had posted.

Again I wasn't insulting you but being blunt and clear. I will give you the respect that your earn when you actually respond to what I have written instead of what you think I have written.

As for following the Word of God I am very jealous of the honor and glory of God. I follow the Word and do my best to show the error of those who do not understand the Word. I am blunt when I need to be blunt in order to contrast the truth against false beliefs. If it insults you the problem isn't with me but with why you are insulted by truth. Rather than be insulted show where my blunt statements are untrue. If they are untrue I will recant and apologize.

BTW, I am doing nothing less than the Apostles did when they confronted false doctrine. There were usually two responses to what the Apostles preached and spoke: some believed and the rest wanted to kill the Apostles. Were the Apostles not following the Word when they preached and people were insulted by their bluntness?

 

[ToBeLoved]

If it insults you the problem isn't with me but with why you are insulted by truth. Rather than be insulted show where my blunt statements are untrue. If they are untrue I will recant and apologize.

But see, I'm not insulting you and I am not insulted by the truth of God's Word.

I am insulted because you are writing insulting words. Let's get that straight.

I do not find God's Word insulting in the least. You are writing your own words that are insulting.

You need to own what you write. Not blame it on God's Word.

 

[twin1954]

But see, I'm not insulting you and I am not insulted by the truth of God's Word.

I am insulted because you are writing insulting words. Let's get that straight.

I do not find God's Word insulting in the least. You are writing your own words that are insulting.

You need to own what you write. Not blame it on God's Word.

I own every word I write. I do not write without thought or intention. I am not writing insulting words I am writing truthful words in a blunt way to get to the point instead of dancing around it. I am sorry if you are insulted but the insult isn't in my words but in the truth that they convey. Show me where and why they are not true and I will apologize and recant.