The land of Israel, the land of God.

[ebedmelech]

Please.. Your doctrine existed long before you did..

You aren't original, your debates on here are backed by a doctrine that is so pathetically fallible, it caves on its own theories..


You are one of the few "Christians" Ive ever met who spin every known commonly understood at the baby level doctrine into something completely different, as long as it supports your beliefs.



Tell me, where in the Bible is a period of time given, and the fulfillment of that time was something other than what was stated.

You have no foundational support for your beliefs.


But then again, most Christians don't believe what your guiding "spirits" are so graciously filling your head with..

THANK GOD..

Shocker...save it...because as I said I'm NOT accountable to you, or anyone else in this forum.

If you disagree, fine...move on...because I will say what I believe the word of God says...not what you, or your pastor, or your particular view teaches.

Put that down!

 

[Shocker]

Shocker...save it...because as I said I'm NOT accountable to you, or anyone else in this forum.

If you disagree, fine...move on...because I will say what I believe the word of God says...not what you, or your pastor, or your particular view teaches.

Put that down!

But you do this alone, or from listening to other people, those who have had your doctrine before you bought into it..

I have no doubt in my mind that you actually believe that hot mess..


All you ever do is tell people what the Bible doesn't say, why don't start listening to what people are trying to tell you.

Your coming over to our way of thinking eventually, you just don't know it yet.. Soon enough..


Perhaps you can cover your head with a pillow and wish it all away.. Perhaps you can think away the coming tribulation, maybe you can convince yourself you are right so you don't have to think about what is coming..

I smell fear personally..

 

[Shocker]

Shocker...save it...because as I said I'm NOT accountable to you, or anyone else in this forum.

If you disagree, fine...move on...because I will say what I believe the word of God says...not what you, or your pastor, or your particular view teaches.

Put that down!

You also, yet again never answered my question.

I said to show me in the Bible where a period of time was given for a prophecy, and it was something else in reality.

That verse you used has nothing to do with a prophecy, its a contrast of time between earthly and heavenly..


Can you try at least to show me a verse where a period of time was given, and the prophecy unfolded in a different amount of time apart from what was stated?

If you cant, its because it doesn't exist.

 

[ebedmelech]

But you do this alone, or from listening to other people, those who have had your doctrine before you bought into it..

I have no doubt in my mind that you actually believe that hot mess..


All you ever do is tell people what the Bible doesn't say, why don't start listening to what people are trying to tell you.

Your coming over to our way of thinking eventually, you just don't know it yet.. Soon enough..


Perhaps you can cover your head with a pillow and wish it all away.. Perhaps you can think away the coming tribulation, maybe you can convince yourself you are right so you don't have to think about what is coming..

I smell fear personally..

I don't. As I've memorized Ephesians, I KNOW that Jesus has gifted people in His church. Ephesians 4;11-13:
11 And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers,
12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ;
13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ.
You too, listen to others...so look in the mirror again Shocker. Don't try to move me, I will only be move by the Holy Spirit of God, not a popularity of views.

The Pharisees and Sadducees were the most popular of their time. How did that end up?

trying to dissuade me, is a waste of your time. If you want people that agree with you...respond to them. I'm going to post what I believe God's word says.

Take a look at the day I joined this forum Shocker. It hasn't been a long time, but it's longer than you...and I've heard those who believe as you do LONG before you came to this forum.

I'm going to be here...

 

[Shocker]

I'm going to be here...

Don't threaten me with a good time..

I love your posts, they make people laugh, and we need that kind of comic relief around here..

So for that, I thank you..

 

[Interplanner]

Shocker, there may be lots of difficulties ahead with communism ever so popular in the West, but it is not The Tribulation, which was the events of the DofJ in the 1st generation ("this generation will not pass til it sees all this"). It was about Israel and wrapping up things with its purposes.

 

[Shocker]

Shocker, there may be lots of difficulties ahead with communism ever so popular in the West, but it is not The Tribulation, which was the events of the DofJ in the 1st generation ("this generation will not pass til it sees all this"). It was about Israel and wrapping up things with its purposes.

Israel still hasn't come to God, and Israel is still sinning...

Christ has yet to return as well..

 

[Interplanner]

There is nothing that has to happen with modern Israel. The NT is quite different from all that kind of notion. The futurism that thinks it does got going about the late 1800s and has very little basis--except for the loss of the past.

 

[Shocker]

There is nothing that has to happen with modern Israel. The NT is quite different from all that kind of notion. The futurism that thinks it does got going about the late 1800s and has very little basis--except for the loss of the past.

According to the Bible, all of Israel will be saved.

Right now, they are not saved.

How do you spiritualize and rape scripture to say anything else?


God wants me to show you this.

Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

 

[ebedmelech]

According to the Bible, all of Israel will be saved.

Right now, they are not saved.

How do you spiritualize and rape scripture to say anything else?


God wants me to show you this.

Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Well when you don't think about what you read you miss the fact that "all Israel" includes Gentiles.

Why do you think Paul calls the church the "True Circumcision"? Philippians 3:1-4:
Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things again is no trouble to me, and it is a safeguard for you.
2 Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the false circumcision;
3 for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh,

 

[Interplanner]

It's very simple and its not rape. The passage quoted from Isaiah is historic. He is referring to the Gospel. Once we realize that, we realize that 11:26 is not a sound byte about futurism. The phrase "And so" (kai houtos) is poorly translated. All it means is "in this manner" (of partial disbelief which is very unfortunate) the real Israel will be saved. The two thoughts go together very well. Israel will always be partially believing (it always was) and much of Rom 9-11 is about what that is.

The reason it is that way is because God's Israel never was the race. It is always the ones who have faith, and now Paul realizes what that means in his missions: that Gentiles who have the same faith are also saved, for ex., Eph 2-3.

We know this passage is not future because of quote from Isaiah, and because of how the paragraph ends: there are 3 "nows." All mankind are now under sin, so that God may now have mercy on them all, which is found in the Gospel.

Ch 11, which sounds like it is about the future, is the rhetorical answer 'if Israel was to believe and be the missionaries that they should be.' It is not a prediction. It is an urging, a hope that they will be what the OT said they should be. This began half way through ch 10 with the 'staircase' of questions about how the nations will ever hear the message. Which also ends with an Isaiah quote about what should happen.

The reason Paul needed to urge Israel to do the work of the Gospel...was precisely because they only partially believe, as it has always been (11:1-4).

Watch out for 'sound byte' preachers and theologians!

 

[Shocker]

Well when you don't think about what you read you miss the fact that "all Israel" includes Gentiles.

Why do you think Paul calls the church the "True Circumcision"? Philippians 3:1-4:
Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things again is no trouble to me, and it is a safeguard for you.
2 Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the false circumcision;
3 for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh,

Here you go again Ebed..

I never once said Gentiles aren't saved.. you should know better..


Get on board with the conversation before you post..

Jews really bug you don't they...

 

[Interplanner]

The new Israel Paul is talking about is transnational and transcultural.

 

[Shocker]

The new Israel Paul is talking about is transnational and transcultural.

Show me that in the Bible.

I already showed you that Israel will be saved and forgiven of their sin against God..

 

[ebedmelech]

Here you go again Ebed..

I never once said Gentiles aren't saved.. you should know better..


Get on board with the conversation before you post..

Jews really bug you don't they...

You missed the entire point as usual. It was you citing Romans 11...and it is Romans 11 that says the Jews and Gentiles are grafted into ONE olive tree. That is how all Israel is saved...it is because (as Paul labors to demonstrate in his writings)...that the two groups become one.

Do the study of that statement "and so all Israel shall be saved", the actual rendering should be "and in this way, all Israel shall be saved".

The more you try to assert I have a problem with the Jews...the more ridiculous you sound. It is because of the Jews that we have God's word, so why would they bug me?

What the real issue is, is that you cannot see that in the NT after Christ is raised Israel is the church made up of Jews and Gentiles. Something Paul makes plain as day in Ephesians 2:11-22.

Now also understand Peter also makes this point in 1 Peter 2:9: 10:
9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;
10 for you once were not a people, but now you are the people of God; you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

Now...for some reason, it never registers that Peter is calling the church everything God called Israel in the OT!

I wonder why...

 

[Old Timer]

Now also understand Peter also makes this point in 1 Peter 2:9: 10:

9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;
10 for you once were not a people, but now you are the people of God; you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

Now...for some reason, it never registers that Peter is calling the church everything God called Israel in the OT!

I wonder why...

Maybe because Peter is the apostle to the circumcision (as Paul is to the Gentiles).. and because Peter understood the grace which shall be brought to them at the revelation of Jesus Christ..

And the restitution of all things..when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the LORD..

After all of Paul's letters to the churches of God.. the holy scriptures turn once again to a completely Jewish context.. with Peter James and John taking the NT to its ultimate conclusion..

The Day of the LORD, the Day of Jesus Christ..

As I often like to say..

It's that simple..

 

[Shocker]

You missed the entire point as usual. It was you citing Romans 11...and it is Romans 11 that says the Jews and Gentiles are grafted into ONE olive tree. That is how all Israel is saved...it is because (as Paul labors to demonstrate in his writings).

Do the study of that statement "and so all Israel shall be saved", the actual rendering should be "and in this way, all Israel shall be saved".

The more you try to assert I have a problem with the Jews...the more ridiculous you sound. It is because of the Jews that we have God's word, so why would they bug me?

What the real issue is, is that you cannot see that in the NT after Christ is raised Israel is the church made up of Jews and Gentiles. Something Paul makes plain as day in Ephesians 2:11-22.

Now also understand Peter also makes this point in 1 Peter 2:9: 10:
9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;
10 for you once were not a people, but now you are the people of God; you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

Now...for some reason, it never registers that Peter is calling the church everything God called Israel in the OT!

I wonder why...

Can you show me where he calls the Christian church "Israel"?

 

[Old Timer]

To confound the church of God with the Israel of God is to not understand the difference between earthly things and heavenly things.. so how can one possibly understand heavenly things, if they haven't understood earthly things?

 

[Shocker]

**frantically searches google for answers**

I wondered why it takes them so long to reply to me..

lol

 

[Shocker]

Ebed is working on a long drawn out reply about how Christians are "Israel" with verses that wont actually say it.

Watch..