The killing of Cecil the Lion...

[ChristsSoldier115]

The hunt seems to be well outside of law and I am curious as to why he would not have gone for a legal hunt.

Yeah that is the big problem right there. There is nothing wrong with hunting. i have no problem with hunters. Poachers on the other hand. I do have a problem with.

 

[Vylo]

One day I will rent a trailer and go up there to take all the deer I can!

I think we only have a limit on the bucks, unsure though, I'm a fisherman, not a hunter. (though the deer have tempted me).

We have to manage a lot of animal populations here. We have the highest population density of any state, but also the highest % of woodlands. It becomes intertwined and you can end up with deer, bear, coyotes, right in the middle of a major city sometimes. I live in a development and a bear was casually crossing the road a quarter mile away.

 

[Vylo]

Yeah that is the big problem right there. There is nothing wrong with hunting. i have no problem with hunters. Poachers on the other hand. I do have a problem with.

Yeah limits are in place for a reason, to preserve populations.

Also why did he leave the meat? Even if you didn't eat it yourself someone could have used it. I don't mind if people hunt for sport IF they give the meat to someone else, but the animal should be used. That's the base purpose for hunting.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

Yeah limits are in place for a reason, to preserve populations.

Also why did he leave the meat? Even if you didn't eat it yourself someone could have used it. I don't mind if people hunt for sport IF they give the meat to someone else, but the animal should be used. That's the base purpose for hunting.

yeah that is another pet peeve of mine, if I am not going to eat it I am not going to kill it, but I am not everyone.

 

[PatrickT]

It can't be murder, you can't murder an animal.

says who? It is even worse than murder for me. There are much less lions than humans.

 

[Lavendar Frog]

One day I will rent a trailer and go up there to take all the deer I can!

I'd do the same thing if I had the land to make it a sanctuary for them. Land owners in my home state have caught hunters taking down the "NO HUNTING" signs they put up in their woods. They're just that bold. To trespass and remove the signs that tell them they're not allowed to kill anything there. Why would they care? When they don't bother trespassing in the first place.

I have a huge problem with trophy hunters. The Big 10 Club is particularly despicable.

 

[Desk trauma]

says who?

Murder is a legal term and only applies to the killing of humans.

 

[TheQuietRiot]

Cats can and should be kept inside, anyway. I don't think any pets should be outside unless supervised.

Why?

Cats shouldn't live their lives enclosed in a house.

On the OP, I find little sympathy for the lion. They are often brutal, merciless killers. A male lion like Cecil taking over a pride will butcher the previous males young to further assert his dominance and to encourage the females to breed with him.

My only objection is that the hunting of any animal should be done with respect, and the fatal shot should be a high velocity round to the head or heart to kill the animal as quickly and as painlessly as possible.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

says who? It is even worse than murder for me. There are much less lions than humans.

Says the courts that define murder in a legal sense.

While I agree with you that it is immoral, I disagree that it is murder on the basis that the definition of murder doesn't fit.

 

[Armoured]

Why?

Cats shouldn't live their lives enclosed in a house.

On the OP, I find little sympathy for the lion. They are often brutal, merciless killers. A male lion like Cecil taking over a pride will butcher the previous males young to further assert his dominance and to encourage the females to breed with him.

My only objection is that the hunting of any animal should be done with respect, and the fatal shot should be a high velocity round to the head or heart to kill the animal as quickly and as painlessly as possible.

Depending on where you are, of course, but domestic cats and their feral brothers are the leading cause of extinction, some places.

 

[Red Fox]

I don't approve of the death threats, but I'm certainly glad the man is getting all this massive backlash and I hope the pressure stays on him for a long time.

Cecil the Lion’s Killer, a U.S. Dentist and Avid Trophy Hunter, Gets Death Threats

 

[keith99]

From what I know, this is true. Especially in my area.

AFAIK, coyotes aren't protected where I live, but there are a lot of them. I think if we had a larger population of apex predators, we'd have fewer coyotes. We do have cougars in the area, but they are extremely rare and are never seen near any human habitation except for farms out in the more country areas.

But there's still a problem, in that coyotes are extremely adaptable to human environments. So we may have cougars in the country, but they wouldn't come close enough to where a lot of local coyotes like to hang out, like fields in between housing areas.

We've unfortunately done quite a job on the local ecosystem here, and I know it's also true in many other areas. I was just complaining to my friend about how I've never seen a deer locally, and we aren't in the city or suburbs! We're literally one step away from the pure country in a tiny town with woods surrounding and isolating us.

I live in the San Fernando Valley. 91367 area code near Pierce College. No bears, no pumas, no wolves. Coyotes is as far as it goes. Well except for an occasional large dog. The coyotes have gone after sheep at the college, it was originally an agricultural school and still has some remnants of that history. When I had the puppies I once did seriously think of seeing if I could work something out for them to guard the sheep. The coyotes would start working the sheep back and forth to isolate a lamb, campus security would respond because they saw it on their camera system. The coyotes would vanish. By the time they were back at the main office they coyotes would be back at it.

You are right the coyotes do adapt. The dogs did get out once when the coyotes were near, things went from sightings every other day to no sign of them for a few months. At least on my block.

 

[Armoured]

I live in the San Fernando Valley. 91367 area code near Pierce College. No bears, no pumas, no wolves. Coyotes is as far as it goes. Well except for an occasional large dog. The coyotes have gone after sheep at the college, it was originally an agricultural school and still has some remnants of that history. When I had the puppies I once did seriously think of seeing if I could work something out for them to guard the sheep. The coyotes would start working the sheep back and forth to isolate a lamb, campus security would respond because they saw it on their camera system. The coyotes would vanish. By the time they were back at the main office they coyotes would be back at it.

You are right the coyotes do adapt. The dogs did get out once when the coyotes were near, things went from sightings every other day to no sign of them for a few months. At least on my block.

Sounds like an unnatural environment, and kind of demonstrates my point. When apex predators are removed, the mid range predators tend to balloon out of control, and you get things like coyote plagues.

No, I'm not suggesting reintroducing pumas to urban areas, I'm just noting the phenomenon. It's something we see over and over, removing apex predators skews whole ecologies, to the point that there are places where rangers have actually set up fake predators, like model eagles and sharks on a simple track to try to restore balance in creatures lower down the chain.

 

[KitKatMatt]

I live in the San Fernando Valley. 91367 area code near Pierce College. No bears, no pumas, no wolves. Coyotes is as far as it goes. Well except for an occasional large dog. The coyotes have gone after sheep at the college, it was originally an agricultural school and still has some remnants of that history. When I had the puppies I once did seriously think of seeing if I could work something out for them to guard the sheep. The coyotes would start working the sheep back and forth to isolate a lamb, campus security would respond because they saw it on their camera system. The coyotes would vanish. By the time they were back at the main office they coyotes would be back at it.

You are right the coyotes do adapt. The dogs did get out once when the coyotes were near, things went from sightings every other day to no sign of them for a few months. At least on my block.

There are more and more documentaries now about certain animals and their amazing ability to adapt to human surroundings. So far I have seen shows on coyotes, foxes, deer, crows, monkeys, and raccoons focusing on this ability to thrive where other animals can't.

It's very interesting how some animals are just made for stuff like this. It's sad that others aren't, though, and that we experience a drop in diversity because of it.

 

[Larniavc]

I am quite fond of my country, I think I will stay, but thanks for the invite.

Your life expectancy will literally increase by nearly three years if you come and live over here. /wry humour.

 

[Desk trauma]

Your life expectancy will literally increase by nearly three years if you come and live over here. /wry humour.

If nothing else it would seem longer...

I kid, I kid.

 

[TheQuietRiot]

Depending on where you are, of course, but domestic cats and their feral brothers are the leading cause of extinction, some places.

Thinking of my previous cat, I'm not surprised. She would bring home 'gifts' daily. Altough she was rather fond of the neighbours rabbit. In winter they would sit side by side in her hutch sharing warmth.

My current cat though is absolutely hopeless at hunting. The ol' dangly piece of string doesn't even entice him to play.

 

[Armoured]

Thinking of my previous cat, I'm not surprised. She would bring home 'gifts' daily. Altough she was rather fond of the neighbours rabbit. In winter they would sit side by side in her hutch sharing warmth.

My current cat though is absolutely hopeless at hunting. The ol' dangly piece of string doesn't even entice him to play.

We have two cats, one is a generic mog, and he depopulated our neighbourhood of all things small and furry in his youth. Dogs used to cross the road to avoid our house. Our other cat and her predecessor are/were ragdolls, and have the hunting instinct of a slow brick.

I used to have a siberian husky who had his own family of pet magpies, he would let them pick his fur to build their nests and shared his food with them. Any other bird ever came into the yard, met instant lupine death. Companion animals can be weird.

I'm not saying people shouldn't have them, please don't get me wrong. I've always had pets, and loved them all dearly. But it's time humans realised that we can't just do stuff because we like it, there are larger consequences. My moggy old cat was a fierce hunter, but at a max he only ever killed one or two things a day, which isn't really significant in the larger scheme of things. But "By 2006, 26 percent of Australian households had a domesticated cat." And as for ferals...
"Feral cats occur right across the continent in every habitat type including deserts, forests and grasslands. Total population estimates vary from 5 million to 18 million feral cats, with the Federal Government citing a figure of 18 million cats in its statutory Threat Abatement Plan.

Each feral cat kills between 5-30 animals per day. While they appear to prefer small mammals, they also eat birds, reptiles and amphibians. Taking the lower figure in that range (five) – and multiplying it by a conservative population estimate of 15 million cats – gives an estimate of 75 million native animals killed daily by feral cats.

- See more at: http://www.australianwildlife.org/field-programs/feral-cat-research.aspx#sthash.uycqpdcI.dpuf"

So, while I love cats, that, by itself, is hardly justification for keeping one and letting it roam wild.

 

[wing2000]

A "guide" who lures a lion out of a protected area by dragging bait behind his vehicle is a poacher IMO.

 

[Glass*Soul]

Around here, people hunt squirrels for food. I have no qualms about that as long as they do so safely and according to local ordinances. People need to eat, and things get pretty thin around here sometimes. But if someone lured half tame squirrels out of a state park with handfuls of peanuts and then blew their trusting little heads off just for giggles, I would be infuriated.

Cecil even more so, as his magnificence was a thing of inestimable value.