Discussion The heart is deceitful above all things

Presbyterian Continuist

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I am thinking that it has to do with the heart is always responding to what is best for us by following our emotions that are also based upon the individual.

I think it has more to do with our love of self. The need for us to feed our pride, or our emotions of love to other people when/if we place those things above what the Word of God says. People can and do justify almost anything inside their minds and hearts as an almost self-protection type of mechanism when they don't want to hurt their own pride or feel the pain of something.

I think that's where that saying that 'there is a real fine line between love and hate' comes from. Only when you love someone so deeply, can they in turn hurt you so deeply.

This shows me that you need to come to a clearer understanding that if you are in Christ then your old nature died with Christ and was buried with Him. If you have a love of self and feel the need to feed your pride then you are living below your privilege in Christ. Your sins and shortcomings are no an issue with God at all. They don't belong to you, because Jesus paid the full price for them. If you take back a love of self and pride you are grave robbing, because those things are in the tomb, left behind there by Jesus when He rose from the dead.
 
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ToBeLoved

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This shows me that you need to come to a clearer understanding that if you are in Christ then your old nature died with Christ and was buried with Him. If you have a love of self and feel the need to feed your pride then you are living below your privilege in Christ. Your sins and shortcomings are no an issue with God at all. They don't belong to you, because Jesus paid the full price for them. If you take back a love of self and pride you are grave robbing, because those things are in the tomb, left behind there by Jesus when He rose from the dead.

It is not "I" that I was talking about, it is what I think that the verse 'may' be talking about when it describes the heart as being decietful.

Jeremiah 17:9
"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?"



Are you speaking about the above verse in your response to my post?

I'm confused.
 
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It is not "I" that I was talking about, it is what I think that the verse 'may' be talking about when it describes the heart as being decietful.

Jeremiah 17:9
"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?"



Are you speaking about the above verse in your response to my post?

I'm confused.

This is talking about the heart that is at the centre of the old nature. We have been given a new heart which is not deceitful at all. The old nature with its deceitful heart could not be reformed, so God killed it by nailing to the cross with Jesus. You can't reform something that is dead.
 
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Ron Coates

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When my spirit was reborn, my heart wasn't. To deal with my heart, God has seen fit to lead me through the fire in order to purge my heart of the vileness in it. For me, the fire is mostly chronic health problems. I believe the above scripture says what it means. That being that the human heart is wicked. Sanctification is the process God uses to purify it. This includes taking up my cross daily. Peace.
 
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ToBeLoved

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This is talking about the heart that is at the centre of the old nature. We have been given a new heart which is not deceitful at all. The old nature with its deceitful heart could not be reformed, so God killed it by nailing to the cross with Jesus. You can't reform something that is dead.

This is talking about our heart in relation to sin, we still sin.


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ToBeLoved

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When my spirit was reborn, my heart wasn't. To deal with my heart, God has seen fit to lead me through the fire in order to purge my heart of the vileness in it. For me, the fire is mostly chronic health problems. I believe the above scripture says what it means. That being that the human heart is wicked. Sanctification is the process God uses to purify it. This includes taking up my cross daily. Peace.

Yes. Agree. It is daily. We constantly fight those things carnal


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Razare

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What do you think this verse means? How do you apply this to your life?

Jeremiah 17:9

"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?"

a) It is Old Testament, meaning everyone did not have the Holy Spirit in their heart, but rather the fallen spirit given to them by Adam. This spirit is actually the spirit subject in satan's kingdom. Ephesians 2:2

b) Even after you get born again, you can get junk in your heart which deceives you, or which is lusts, or things that oppose 1 Corinthians 13 love.

c) So then we can have good things come out of our heart since God is in there, but this happens by faith in God's word, by love. There is no deception in this. But deception can still find its way into the heart so we should avoid this.
 
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ToBeLoved

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This is talking about the heart that is at the centre of the old nature. We have been given a new heart which is not deceitful at all. The old nature with its deceitful heart could not be reformed, so God killed it by nailing to the cross with Jesus. You can't reform something that is dead.
Why does man still sin then?

Or are you saying you are sinless with your new heart that is Godly.
 
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ToBeLoved

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a) It is Old Testament, meaning everyone did not have the Holy Spirit in their heart, but rather the fallen spirit given to them by Adam. This spirit is actually the spirit subject in satan's kingdom. Ephesians 2:2

b) Even after you get born again, you can get junk in your heart which deceives you, or which is lusts, or things that oppose 1 Corinthians 13 love.

c) So then we can have good things come out of our heart since God is in there, but this happens by faith in God's word, by love. There is no deception in this. But deception can still find its way into the heart so we should avoid this.
That is what I was also saying, I was disagreeing with post #50 which says our new heart is perfect. Sin is still in us.
 
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AGTG

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What do you think this verse means? How do you apply this to your life?

Jeremiah 17:9

"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?"

I think it's a clear warning, even for New Covenant believers, to be careful even if things "feel" right. The only thing we can truly trust and hold tight to is the word of God. It will endure forever, it will not return void.
 
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Alithis

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A sin is a sin. 'Willful' sin is an excuse to use the opposite word non-willful sin. It's all sin brother.
there are people who do things which are not a sin unto them due to their innocence in the mater .. but once it comes to thier knowledge thsat it is sin they are then responsible to turn away from it .
if a man ran bouncing through your assembly laughing an naked ..you would say he is acting shamefully and sinfully for he knows it should not be done .
if a 2 year old runs bouncing through the room naked you wold not accuse the two year old of sin due to their lack of knowledge of it . they act in innocent ignorance .. it is this behaviour in people that god graciously covers .. but one we have grown and once the holy spirit makes known to us what is sin .. THEN.. if we go and do it he will chastise us and if we continue in it there is no more sacrifice for sin .
that is the difference between a sin .. and a sin unto death . willfully doing that which we absolutely know to be sin.. is willful sin . it is acting under the action of our own wil choosing to do a thing we know to be wrong . if this is not repented of we will perish in it . this is what happened to ananias and saphira .
 
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ToBeLoved

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there are people who do things which are not a sin unto them due to their innocence in the mater .. but once it comes to thier knowledge thsat it is sin they are then responsible to turn away from it .
if a man ran bouncing through your assembly laughing an naked ..you would say he is acting shamefully and sinfully for he knows it should not be done .
if a 2 year old runs bouncing through the room naked you wold not accuse the two year old of sin due to their lack of knowledge of it . they act in innocent ignorance .. it is this behaviour in people that god graciously covers .. but one we have grown and once the holy spirit makes known to us what is sin .. THEN.. if we go and do it he will chastise us and if we continue in it there is no more sacrifice for sin .
that is the difference between a sin .. and a sin unto death . willfully doing that which we absolutely know to be sin.. is willful sin . it is acting under the action of our own wil choosing to do a thing we know to be wrong . if this is not repented of we will perish in it . this is what happened to ananias and saphira .
Your use of willful sin is your own man made thing. There is sin and not sin. That's how God see's it. This is leaning on your own understanding.

Also, the part in red is from Hebrews and has nothing to do with this subject. It refers to the Levitical priesthood in the OT making sacrifice for sin. Totally out of context here brother.
 
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Alithis

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Your use of willful sin is your own man made thing. There is sin and not sin. That's how God see's it. This is leaning on your own understanding.

Also, the part in red is from Hebrews and has nothing to do with this subject. It refers to the Levitical priesthood in the OT making sacrifice for sin. Totally out of context here brother.
my use of the term willful sin is very simple and correct .. it is when you ,by and act of your OWN WILL ,do something .it is a wilful act . when we do something that is a sin and the holy spirit is telling us dont do that .but we do it any way .. it is a willful act of sin . thus this verse could not be MORE IN context.
when you were child and your mum said do not draw on the wall and then even while she still watched you put the pen on the wall and you made a mark on it .. that was a willful act of disobedience ,you sinned against your mother (and against god who says children obey your parents )-it is so simple .

If we deliberately go on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no further sacrifice for sins remains ,but only a fearful expectation of judgment and raging fire that will consume all adversaries.… -you dont like it ,but it states what it states .
 
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ToBeLoved

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my use of the term willful sin is very simple and correct .. it is when you ,by and act of your OWN WILL ,do something .it is a wilful act . when we do something that is a sin and the holy spirit is telling us dont do that .but we do it any way .. it is a willful act of sin . thus this verse could not be MORE IN context.
when you were child and your mum said do not draw on the wall and then even while she still watched you put the pen on the wall and you made a mark on it .. that was a willful act of disobedience ,you sinned against your mother (and against god who says children obey your parents )-it is so simple .

If we deliberately go on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no further sacrifice for sins remains ,but only a fearful expectation of judgment and raging fire that will consume all adversaries.… -you dont like it ,but it states what it states .
Again your using the verse in Hebrews out of context. The 'sacrifice' for sin was from the OT Levitical Priesthood that no longer existed after Christ.

That is what the writer is telling the Hebrews. There is no more a Levitical Priesthood to do sacrifices for sin. Context, context, context, even if it takes one of your favorite verses away.
 
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Alithis

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Again your using the verse in Hebrews out of context. The 'sacrifice' for sin was from the OT Levitical Priesthood that no longer existed after Christ.

That is what the writer is telling the Hebrews. There is no more a Levitical Priesthood to do sacrifices for sin. Context, context, context, even if it takes one of your favorite verses away.


actually it is speaking of those who go on to wilfully sin after coming to a knowledge of chrsit jesus -ie they refuse to repent .
If we deliberately go on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no further sacrifice for sins remains, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and raging fire that will consume all adversaries.…-
after we have received the knowledge of the truth.. Thats Jesus .
- id say nice try , but its not even remotely close to a try ..its a blatant attempt to oppose the plain word
 
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Jezmeyah

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What do you think this verse means? How do you apply this to your life?

Jeremiah 17:9

"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?"
I would not apply it directly to my personal life, but rather to interaction with others.. describing in general and not speaking of any specific person of course. And perhaps the description is in it's most extreme sense. And, all use of the word 'you' is used in the universal sense.

The word wicked is closely related to crooked, as opposed to straight. So, I look at a deceitful heart, a wicked heart that cannot be known, as a person that is unstable, undisciplined in areas that might pertain to general relationships or joint projects of some kind.
It also reminds me of the phrase, "the artful dodger". They do this, they do that, they say this, then they say that., so you never can tell what they'll do next. There's nothing to rely on about what they're like, except that they are unstable.
Who can know for sure about such a person? They have their fears, anxieties, selfishness that motivates them. But all you would want out of that person is that they be straight with you,.. that they would say for instance commit to something productive and not back out of it for some flippant or their deemed important reason, but their inclination is such that it just won't happen.
Don't you just love people like that? Well, yes, even they need the love of God expressed through us.
 
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