The Guardian Says Correcting Grammar Is Racist; Expression Of White Privilege

[civilwarbuff]

Maybe. But I doubt she was ever in danger of professional loss; just the opposite.

You are assuming she is a professional.....what?

 

[Dave-W]

Grammer? It don't make me no nevermind.

 

[SummerMadness]

Infowars link not working and the video has been removed. If the subject matter is grammar correction is bad, that's stupid. However, if the discussion is grammar correction used as a means to dismiss or embarrass someone, that is very true sometimes. Take the use of "ask" vs. "ax", neither usage is incorrect as the words are shortened versions of "ascian" and "acsian", which were later shortened to ask and ax. Ask became standard centuries years later, but ax is still used in parts of England, the American South and the Caribbean.

Somewhere along the way, the word became associated with African Americans and it's not uncommon to see on forums, like this one, people mocking African Americans for "poor grammar" for using the acsian form of ask. Yes, grammar can be employed as a means of advancing a racial narrative. This does not mean that all forms of correction are racist, but some clearly are. The irony of ask vs. ax is that neither is a grammatical mistake.

 

[Oafman]

 

[SummerMadness]

"I could care less about poor grammar."

"Alright, if you can, then care less."

 

[Oafman]

"I could care less about poor grammar."

"Alright, if you can, then care less."

That one is a pet hate of mine, purely because it means almost the exact opposite of what people who say it actually want it to mean.

 

[Albion]

This--

All too often, it’s a way to

is not the start of a proposition that is to be taken seriously.

 

[nightflight]

That one is a pet hate of mine, purely because it means almost the exact opposite of what people who say it actually want it to mean.

That drives me crazy too. That and "prolly".

 

[Albion]

"Alright, if you can, then care less."

You mean "all right," I suppose.

 

[nightflight]

Infowars link not working and the video has been removed. If the subject matter is grammar correction is bad, that's stupid. However, if the discussion is grammar correction used as a means to dismiss or embarrass someone, that is very true sometimes. Take the use of "ask" vs. "ax", neither usage is incorrect as the words are shortened versions of "ascian" and "acsian", which were later shortened to ask and ax. Ask became standard centuries years later, but ax is still used in parts of England, the American South and the Caribbean.

Somewhere along the way, the word became associated with African Americans and it's not uncommon to see on forums, like this one, people mocking African Americans for "poor grammar" for using the acsian form of ask. Yes, grammar can be employed as a means of advancing a racial narrative. This does not mean that all forms of correction are racist, but some clearly are. The irony of ask vs. ax is that neither is a grammatical mistake.

Here's the Guardian link:

http://api.viglink.com/api/click?fo...nising-pretentious-and-just-plain-wrong-video

 

[SummerMadness]

One I associate with writing on the Internet is writing "loose" instead of "lose." I never saw that until it popped on Internet forums. The worst I've seen was it appearing in a news article for a website.

 

[trunks2k]

"I could care less about poor grammar."

I always read "I could care less about...." in a sarcastic tone.

 

[keith99]

Here's the link to the guardian article with the video (which I should have posted).
http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...nising-pretentious-and-just-plain-wrong-video

In the comments, Mona Chalabi seems to regret the way she put all this, saying:

"A lot of commenters have pointed out that they’re frustrated that I said grammar snobs are more likely to be white. In retrospect, I’m annoyed I said it too. I was thinking of people who come to the UK from countries like Jamaica, people who speak English as a first language and speak it perfectly but don't necessarily follow the rules of British grammar. Actually, it would have been much more relevant to have said that grammar snobs are more likely to be native speakers who don’t know what it’s like to live abroad and struggle with a different set of language rules. Race doesn’t necessarily come into it at all."

Maybe she just reflexively attributed grammar-correcting to white privilege, since it seems to be the default explanation for many things these days.

Ignoring the fact that a Jamaican is more likely to speak perfect Oxford English than a Cockney.

Who is racist now?

 

[SummerMadness]

I think this video is apt.

Watching the Chalabi video, it seems like it's a rehash of Stephen Fry.

Maybe she just reflexively attributed grammar-correcting to white privilege, since it seems to be the default explanation for many things these days.

She never mentions white privilege in the video.

 

[keith99]

I think this video is apt.

Watching the Chalabi video, it seems like it's a rehash of Stephen Fry.

Quite, and entertaining.

But Fry made it quite clear that grammar has a place and decent grammar is useful or should I say vital. Decent is not the same as perfect and Fry is disputing those who insist on perfect, not those who desire decent or even merely intelligible.

 

[SummerMadness]

Quite, and entertaining.

But Fry made it quite clear that grammar has a place and decent grammar is useful or should I say vital. Decent is not the same as perfect and Fry is disputing those who insist on perfect, not those who desire decent or even merely intelligible.

Fry is not just targeting perfect grammarians, he targets the "decent" ones too. He targets those that use grammar to bludgeon other people not because they're perfect themselves, but because they wish to show their superiority. That's why he "corrects" himself several times in the video, not because perfectionists would demand it, but because many self-proclaimed perfectionists use incorrect or informal grammar (that is now accepted). No one is confused by less or fewer in the colloquial sense, that doesn't stop pedants from correcting others. What is more decent or intelligible by this being correct? Less or fewer is a single example of something seen in many aspects of language. Considering the amount of slang, repurposed and altered words in the English language, when you look at the attitude of people that wince at new slang or slight misuse of grammar, it's obvious their issue is not lack of decency, it's about classifying people as inferior to themselves. So go ahead, conversate.

 

[Dave-W]

The irony of ask vs. ax is that neither is a grammatical mistake.

No - it is a pronunciation mistake. It is a reversal of the K and S sounds.

Just like my step dad. He could NEVER pronounce the City of Brotherly Love correctly. It always came out Philadelthia.

 

[Dave-W]

Ignoring the fact that a Jamaican is more likely to speak perfect Oxford English than a Cockney.
Who is racist now?

Yahh mon!!!

 

[nightflight]

She never mentions white privilege in the video.

No, she didn't say "privilege"; she did go out of her way to mention "white". Have to feed that Narrative.

 

[Dave-W]

But just remember no matter how much someone harps on "Proper English," it is not even in the same league with how France reigns in the French Language worldwide.