Discussion The great Contradiction of the apostate church .

[amariselle]

You implied it
And avoided the question.
what sin are you talking about which you cant stop doing because..in your own words you are "only human"
?i dont care what it is..but i do care that you try to self justify its continued practice.

Why are you still only human.?
Those born again are no longer only human.they died and are made a new creation in christ.
lets be honest ..blaming ones chosen action of sin upon ones humanism is huminism ..itd a copout.an excuse ..a lie.
Scripture states God does not allow you to be tempted beyond resistance
and thats the point. We cant blame sin on something else.we do an unrightous act by accident..we choose to do it when we love it more then we love the lord Jesus.if we love him more then we choose to obey him.not disobey him.
thats the point.
its not about he said you said i said..
if Jesus has set you free.. nothing can force you to do an action you know to be sin.you must rebel against god and choose to do that action.
so stop blaming your body.take sond responsibility and cut it out.
repentance is not doing the same thing and asking forgivness each time.thats rebellion.

The fact that you assume I struggle with some chronic, habitual sin is nothing more than conjecture. I said I make mistakes, I did not say there was some particular sin I keep willfully doing. YOU chose to assume that, I said nothing of the sort. All I said was I still mess up sometimes.

But I will say, there are those who are struggling, and they are trusting in God to deliver them. Sometimes it is a process, and it is not for you to condemn a fellow believer in whom God is working, just because that process doesn't fit your idea of how long it should take for them to conquer their sin in Christ.

The point is that we know we have a Saviour who has delivered us, and who is doing a "good work" in us, which He will bring to completion.

And also, remember, we are not all of the same spiritual maturity, it is a journey, and we should always be growing and learning.

So, stop assuming that you know what is or isn't going on in another Christian's life.

 

[Alithis]

The fact that you assume I struggle with some chronic, habitual sin is nothing more than conjecture. I said I make mistakes, I did not say there was some particular sin I keep willfully doing. YOU chose to assume that, I said nothing of the sort. All I said was I still mess up sometimes.

But I will say, there are those who are struggling, and they are trusting in God to deliver them. Sometimes it is a process, and it is not for you to condemn a fellow believer in whom God is working, just because that process doesn't fit your idea of how long it should take for them to conquer their sin in Christ.

The point is that we know we have a Saviour who has delivered us, and who is doing a "good work" in us, which He will bring to completion.

And also, remember, we are not all of the same spiritual maturity, it is a journey, and we should always be growing and learning.

So, stop assuming that you know what is or isn't going on in another Christian's life.

im assuming nothing .. im going on what your telling me .
you've downgraded sin to 'messing up sometimes ' .?? why mess up sometimes . what unambiguous sin do you do which you call "messing up" ?
i dont want to know .. what im emphasizing is what i has said all along .
if the lord Jesus has set you free from the power of sin ,and the word of god has stated you wont be tempted above your ability to resist .. then why go and do an action which you know to be a sin..
dont go projecting it onto others who are younger in the lord as if that some how excuses us . it doesn't .

so get real and stop doing it . it leads to death if it is not repented of .

 

[amariselle]

im assuming nothing .. im going on what your telling me .
you've downgraded sin to 'messing up sometimes ' .??

Actually, "messing up" is precisely what I originally said in my very first comment on this thread. Perhaps if you had read that comment carefully, you wouldn't have leapt up on your high horse of condemnation and judgement as you have.

Here, let me remind you of what I originally wrote:

And because we will still mess up, even as Christians, we need to continually come to God and repent, seeking Him in all areas of our lives.

Being a Christian and following Christ is a lifelong commitment. It's not a one time conversion experience and then we just go on our way, with no more need to repent and turn to God. It's a journey, and it's not exactly the same for any two people.

You seem to believe that I hinted at some habitual sin which I intentionally keep doing, so where in what I wrote did you get that?

why mess up sometimes . what unambiguous sin do you do which you call "messing up" ?
i dont want to know .. what im emphasizing is what i has said all along .
if the lord Jesus has set you free from the power of sin ,and the word of god has stated you wont be tempted above your ability to resist .. then why go and do an action which you know to be a sin..
dont go projecting it onto others who are younger in the lord as if that some how excuses us . it doesn't .

so get real and stop doing it . it leads to death if it is not repented of .

Wow! Stop being so obstinate! And stop making presumptions. I have no idea what sin you THINK it is that I am caught up in. And I have no idea why you insist that I have not repented or been saved by Jesus Christ. It's absolutely horrendous actually, that you would believe that about someone you don't know ANYTHING about.

And I am not "projecting" anything onto others. Do you think Paul was "projecting" onto others when he spoke of spiritual maturity?

I seriously have nothing else to say to you. Thankfully this thread is not about any supposed sin you believe I am committing habitually.

I sincerely hope that you are not so high and mighty in your judgements of your brothers and sisters in Christ in your day to day life. If you are, you may want to ask yourself if what you are doing is helping or hindering your witness for Christ.

Blessings,

~Amariselle

 

[Alithis]

Actually, "messing up" is precisely what I originally said in my very first comment on this thread. Perhaps if you had read that comment carefully, you wouldn't have leapt up on your high horse of condemnation and judgement as you have.

Here, let me remind you of what I originally wrote:



You seem to believe that I hinted at some habitual sin which I intentionally keep doing, so where in what I wrote did you get that?



Wow! Stop being so obstinate! And stop making presumptions. I have no idea what sin you THINK it is that I am caught up in. And I have no idea why you insist that I have not repented or been saved by Jesus Christ. It's absolutely horrendous actually, that you would believe that about someone you don't know ANYTHING about.

And I am not "projecting" anything onto others. Do you think Paul was "projecting" onto others when he spoke of spiritual maturity?

I seriously have nothing else to say to you. Thankfully this thread is not about any supposed sin you believe I am committing habitually.

I sincerely hope that you are not so high and mighty in your judgements of your brothers and sisters in Christ in your day to day life. If you are, you may want to ask yourself if what you are doing is helping or hindering your witness for Christ.

Blessings,

~Amariselle

Are you then saying you never sin ..you just mess up?

 

[Alithis]

Good old Romans 7, the justification chapter for holding on to the old man.....

When read correctly, then you will notice who it is addressing, man under the law,
walking in carnality.

According to Romans 6, the old man, the carnal man, the flesh was crucified, dead and buried
with Christ, then we are raised with Him to newness of life, a new creation, born anew.
When dead, we are freed from sin.

Let me ask you a simple question.....

According to Romans 6, is one raised to newness of life before one is crucified, dead and buried?


Or as Jesus taught...

If one does not lose his life (old man dead and buried), he will not have life (raised to newness of life,
a new creation, a new man).


2 Corinthians 5
Therefore, if any one is in Christ, he is a new creation, THE OLD HAS PASSED AWAY.
Behold the NEW has come.


Let us take old of TRUTH, instead of listening corrupt doctrines from preacher and teachers who
speak from their own understanding.


May God open our eyes and ears to understand.

Well exactly

 

[Alithis]

Its often telling in this contradiction.
That when one presents "the scripture" to highlight the "contradiction many live in continuing to practice their favorite sin unrepentant.
That the accusation of condemnation and judgment start flying..yet that is also a contradiction of the word of God... There is no condemnation to those who ARE in christ... But if they be in christ .they will not continue to practice sin..

 

[amariselle]

Its often telling in this contradiction.
That when one presents "the scripture" to highlight the "contradiction many live in continuing to practice their favorite sin unrepentant.
That the accusation of condemnation and judgment start flying..yet that is also a contradiction of the word of God... There is no condemnation to those who ARE in christ... But if they be in christ .they will not continue to practice sin..

Perhaps if you weren't being condemning and judgmental, you wouldn't have been accused of being so.

But you're right about one thing, there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ.

The issue is, you took it upon yourself to tell me I'm not "in Christ", for absolutely no reason.

 

[amariselle]

Are you then saying you never sin ..you just mess up?

Go back and read what I've already written. You haven't been reading my responses carefully it would seem. It all started when you chose to accuse me of being guilty of som habitual sin, and then demanded to know which sin I apparently keep committing.

If you're not going to be respectful, and actually read what I write, there is nothing more I can say.

 

[Alithis]

Go back and read what I've already written. You haven't been reading my responses carefully it would seem. It all started when you chose to accuse me of being guilty of some habitual sin, and then demanded to know which sin I apparently keep committing.

If you're not going to be respectful, and actually read what I write, there is nothing more I can say.

well you are the one who used paul's words taken out of context to say your a prisoner to sin.. and so implied you cant stop doing it .
all i did was ask " what sin are you referring to?- so that we may clarify .
after all, the contradiction is in the statement that "your just a sinner saved ".. and how that statement is used repeatedly to self justify the continued practice of sin. even though the scriptures state if a person continues to practice sin that they are not born of god .

you see its the point i have been making .its not about you .but about the contradiction.(you made it about you )
lets be honest .. you ,or any one, cannot do an action which they know is sinful ,by accident ,nor by coercion ,nor outside their own will . so when a person says .."oh well i'm just a sinner saved", as a softening excuse for their sin ,they show there is no genuine repentance and remain in their sin and are not saved yet from it .

Jesus states of and to those those who "do works of iniquity " depart from me ,i do not know you . so we see it is a very very serious matter .

the entire concept that sin is ever excusable is based on unbelief the entire concept that a person cannot Cease from their sin, when the very thing Jesus came to do was FREE us from SIN , is a concept based entirely upon unbelief in his ability to do that which he has promised to do .

 

[Alithis]

i will add: in one spot I got your post mixed with another persons and half replied to his response .. yeh confused me too haha

 

[Alithis]

Perhaps if you weren't being condemning and judgmental, you wouldn't have been accused of being so.

But you're right about one thing, there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ.

The issue is, you took it upon yourself to tell me I'm not "in Christ", for absolutely no reason.

you will find i have nether condemned nor judged but only responded. but the warning to all is the same today as it was when Jesus said it ... repentance for the forgiveness of sin is to be preached .

and repentance is not a one off act where you get forgiven then go back, turn back ,backslide ,draw back rebel.. and carry on doing it over and over .

 

[amariselle]

you will find i have nether condemned nor judged but only responded. but the warning to all is the same today as it was when Jesus said it ... repentance for the forgiveness of sin is to be preached .

and repentance is not a one off act where you get forgiven then go back, turn back ,backslide ,draw back rebel.. and carry on doing it over and over .

And yet, it is YOU who presumed to tell me that is what I'm doing.

How do you know? What do you know about me? NOTHING.

You come across as extremely self-righteous and condescending. You also seem to be suggesting that you never make any mistakes anymore. Must be nice.

 

[Alithis]

And yet, it is YOU who presumed to tell me that is what I'm doing.

How do you know? What do you know about me? NOTHING.

You come across as extremely self-righteous and condescending. You also seem to be suggesting that you never make any mistakes anymore. Must be nice.

yet again you avoid the point and leave the topic to make it about you ..

The contradiction is in the statement that "your just a sinner saved ".. and how that statement is used repeatedly to self justify the continued practice of sin. even though the scriptures state if a person continues to practice sin that they are not born of god .

you see its the point i have been making .its not about you .but about the contradiction.(you made it about you )
lets be honest .. you ,or any one, cannot do an action which they know is sinful ,by accident ,nor by coercion ,nor outside their own will . so when a person says .."oh well i'm just a sinner saved", as a softening excuse for their sin ,they show there is no genuine repentance and remain in their sin and are not saved yet from it .

Jesus states of and to those those who "do works of iniquity " depart from me ,i do not know you . so we see it is a very very serious matter .

the entire concept that sin is ever excusable is based on unbelief the entire concept that a person cannot Cease from their sin,when the very thing Jesus came to do was FREE us from SIN , is a concept based entirely upon unbelief in his ability to do that which he has promised to do .

 

[amariselle]

yet again you avoid the point and leave the topic to make it about you ..

It was you who made it about me with your false accusations and presumptions. I have no idea actually why you decided to target me, but for some reason you did.

The contradiction is in the statement that "your just a sinner saved ".. and how that statement is used repeatedly to self justify the continued practice of sin. even though the scriptures state if a person continues to practice sin that they are not born of god .

Well, I'm certainly not about to say I'm perfect. But just because I admit that I don't get it all right, does NOT mean that I am trying to justify my sin, nor does it mean that there is some habitual sin I keep repeating, as you presumed.

you see its the point i have been making .its not about you .but about the contradiction.(you made it about you )
lets be honest .. you ,or any one, cannot do an action which they know is sinful ,by accident ,nor by coercion ,nor outside their own will . so when a person says .."oh well i'm just a sinner saved", as a softening excuse for their sin ,they show there is no genuine repentance and remain in their sin and are not saved yet from it .

Except I never said I did any of that, now did I? YOU jumped to conclusions and chose to pass judgment. Without even knowing me or anything about my life, you chose to accuse me of not repenting and of continuing to commit some habitual sin, even demanding to know what this assumed sin was. I am actually quite concerned by how quickly you seem to judge and condemn another person. (Especially somebody you know not ONE consequential thing about) Maybe being on the Internet, and more or less anonymous, makes you feel safer in doing so, I have no idea.

Jesus states of and to those those who "do works of iniquity " depart from me ,i do not know you . so we see it is a very very serious matter .

I never said it wasn't, but that doesn't change the fact that you have no basis for the accusations and judgements you leveled at me.

the entire concept that sin is ever excusable is based on unbelief the entire concept that a person cannot Cease from their sin,when the very thing Jesus came to do was FREE us from SIN , is a concept based entirely upon unbelief in his ability to do that which he has promised to do .

And here is more that I NEVER said. I can see you have come up with a whole host of presumptions about me.

But, as you've pointed out (despite choosing to attack me with false accusations), this thread is not about me. So, if you're finished with your unfounded assumptions, condemnations and judgements, we can move on.

Thank you.

 

[Alithis]

y

It was you who made it about me with your false accusations and presumptions. I have no idea actually why you decided to target me, but for some reason you did.



Well, I'm certainly not about to say I'm perfect. But just because I admit that I don't get it all right, does NOT mean that I am trying to justify my sin, nor does it mean that there is some habitual sin I keep repeating, as you presumed.



Except I never said I did any of that, now did I? YOU jumped to conclusions and chose to pass judgment. Without even knowing me or anything about my life, you chose to accuse me of not repenting and of continuing to commit some habitual sin, even demanding to know what this assumed sin was. I am actually quite concerned by how quickly you seem to judge and condemn another person. (Especially somebody you know not ONE consequential thing about) Maybe being on the Internet, and more or less anonymous, makes you feel safer in doing so, I have no idea.



I never said it wasn't, but that doesn't change the fact that you have no basis for the accusations and judgements you leveled at me.



And here is more that I NEVER said. I can see you have come up with a whole host of presumptions about me.

But, as you've pointed out (despite choosing to attack me with false accusations), this thread is not about me. So, if you're finished with your unfounded assumptions, condemnations and judgements, we can move on.

Thank you.

yeah ok .. its not about you, back to the topic

The contradiction is in the statement that "your just a sinner saved ".. and how that statement is used repeatedly to self justify the continued practice of sin. even though the scriptures state if a person continues to practice sin that they are not born of god .

you see its the point i have been making .its not about you .but about the contradiction.(you made it about you )
lets be honest .. you ,or any one, cannot do an action which they know is sinful ,by accident ,nor by coercion ,nor outside their own will . so when a person says .."oh well i'm just a sinner saved", as a softening excuse for their sin ,they show there is no genuine repentance and remain in their sin and are not saved yet from it .

Jesus states of and to those those who "do works of iniquity " depart from me ,i do not know you . so we see it is a very very serious matter .

the entire concept that sin is ever excusable is based on unbelief the entire concept that a person cannot Cease from their sin,when the very thing Jesus came to do was FREE us from SIN , is a concept based entirely upon unbelief in his ability to do that which he has promised to do .

 

[amariselle]

y

yeah ok .. its not about you, back to the topic

The contradiction is in the statement that "your just a sinner saved ".. and how that statement is used repeatedly to self justify the continued practice of sin. even though the scriptures state if a person continues to practice sin that they are not born of god .

you see its the point i have been making .its not about you .but about the contradiction.(you made it about you )
lets be honest .. you ,or any one, cannot do an action which they know is sinful ,by accident ,nor by coercion ,nor outside their own will . so when a person says .."oh well i'm just a sinner saved", as a softening excuse for their sin ,they show there is no genuine repentance and remain in their sin and are not saved yet from it .

Jesus states of and to those those who "do works of iniquity " depart from me ,i do not know you . so we see it is a very very serious matter .

the entire concept that sin is ever excusable is based on unbelief the entire concept that a person cannot Cease from their sin,when the very thing Jesus came to do was FREE us from SIN , is a concept based entirely upon unbelief in his ability to do that which he has promised to do .

I never once said sin was excusable, now did I? Of course it isn't.

Nor did I ever dispute the fact that Jesus has set us free from sin. He has redeemed us and saved us.

My point is that we should not be arrogant and look down our noses at others, believing that we are perfect and somehow deserving of all Jesus has done for us.

We DO NOT deserve it, and we cannot earn it. And when we do "mess up", we must seek forgiveness and repent.

 

[Alithis]

Lol wow how are we going to move on when youkeep making it about you..im not talking or speaking too or of you individualy.
This is to every reader..
back to the topic

The contradiction is in the statement that "your just a sinner saved ".. and how that statement is used repeatedly to self justify the continued practice of sin. even though the scriptures state if a person continues to practice sin that they are not born of god .

you see its the point i have been making .its not about you .but about the contradiction.(you made it about you )
lets be honest .. you ,or any one, cannot do an action which they know is sinful ,by accident ,nor by coercion ,nor outside their own will . so when a person says .."oh well i'm just a sinner saved", as a softening excuse for their sin ,they show there is no genuine repentance and remain in their sin and are not saved yet from it .

Jesus states of and to those those who "do works of iniquity " depart from me ,i do not know you . so we see it is a very very serious matter .

the entire concept that sin is ever excusable is based on unbelief the entire concept that a person cannot Cease from their sin,when the very thing Jesus came to do was FREE us from SIN , is a concept based entirely upon unbelief in his ability to do that which he has promised to do .

 

[Alithis]

Again ..the scripture in 1john does not sayp .."when"you sin ..or watering itdown..mess up, You must confess.
It says "if".
By changing it to the word "when" a person is declaring that they have the will to sin in the future .they are showing outwardly that they fully intend to commit that certain sin again.
This displays that there is no repentance yet.they have not yet changed thier minds towards God to agree with him and follow him..those that love him obey him.
If your attending to sin ..and by saying "when" you simply show that intent.your showing you havnt yet made up your mind to follow Jesus.
James says a double minded man is unstable in ALL his ways..

If a person does not settle this in thier heart and repent then they will to go back and do what the flesh desires .simplybecause they have not yet decided to take up the cross..crucify the flesh and walk in the freedom Christ has already won for us.
This not condemning ..it is the truth that sets you free.

 

[amariselle]

Lol wow how are we going to move on when youkeep making it about you..im not talking or speaking too or of you individualy.
This is to every reader..
back to the topic

The contradiction is in the statement that "your just a sinner saved ".. and how that statement is used repeatedly to self justify the continued practice of sin. even though the scriptures state if a person continues to practice sin that they are not born of god .

you see its the point i have been making .its not about you .but about the contradiction.(you made it about you )
lets be honest .. you ,or any one, cannot do an action which they know is sinful ,by accident ,nor by coercion ,nor outside their own will . so when a person says .."oh well i'm just a sinner saved", as a softening excuse for their sin ,they show there is no genuine repentance and remain in their sin and are not saved yet from it .

Jesus states of and to those those who "do works of iniquity " depart from me ,i do not know you . so we see it is a very very serious matter .

the entire concept that sin is ever excusable is based on unbelief the entire concept that a person cannot Cease from their sin,when the very thing Jesus came to do was FREE us from SIN , is a concept based entirely upon unbelief in his ability to do that which he has promised to do .

You need to start actually reading responses. Maybe then you will stop making false assumptions and unfounded accusations.

Have fun with the continued discussion, if anyone else answers later. I'm out.

Blessings,

~Amariselle

 

[Alithis]

You need to start actually reading responses. Maybe then you will stop making false assumptions and unfounded accusations.

Have fun with the continued discussion, if anyone else answers later. I'm out.

Blessings,

~Amariselle

Great.. Because your being so self defensive your not adressing the topic at all.