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The Global Flood

Discussion in 'Creation & Evolution' started by Jase, Jul 28, 2006.

  1. AV1611VET

    AV1611VET Galatians 3:26 Supporter

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    I definitely believe in miracles, and I definitely believe Noah's Flood was a literal world-wide flood.

    Let me ask you this: if it was only a local flood---
    • Why was Noah aboard the Ark for over a year?
      Why did birds board the Ark?
      Why was this Ark so big?
      What was the containment wall that kept the water localized?

     
  2. BeamMeUpScotty

    BeamMeUpScotty Senior Veteran

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    Here is something I did by myself. I have yet to have one YEC refute my simple (less than 6th grade) math. So take me on and show me your math.

    According to Panda.org, which is part of the WWF, there are two types of elephants: the Asian and the African. Obviously if we believe the Bible, there would have been at least four elephants on the ark.

    The Asian elephant eats around 300kg of fodder per day (see above source), while fully grown African elephants eat up to 200kg of food/day.

    Now, we know from Gen 6:21 that Noah was commanded to take food for all the animals and his family, thus nullifying a possible miracle explanation for not needing to bring food. However, in the interest of being conservative, lets assume that Noah had younger elephants and thus needed less food than a full grown adult (although growing children need their vegetables!!!). So lets assume that the elephants needed half of their adult counterparts.

    Therefore, collectively, the Asian and African elephants would need approximately 500 kg of food/day. That’s 1,102.31 pounds a day!! In the interest of simplicity and being conservative in our estimates lets just say 1,000 pounds of food/day. For the (approximate) year that they were on the ark, that would mean NoahCo would have needed 365,000 pounds of food just for the elephants!!! This is 182.5 tons.

    Next step, calculating how much space was in the ark. This has been done repeatedly so I hope there is little contention here. Gen. 6:15 says, "The length of the ark shall be 300 cubits (aprx. 450 feet), the breadth of it 50 cubits (aprx. 75 feet), and the height of it 30 cubits (aprx. 45 feet-ed.)." This is 1,518,750 cubic feet. Let’s also assume for the sake of simplicity and being conservative that the ark was a perfect box with these dimensions (i.e., no space lost at the front or back due to needing to actually float, no need for going through sea/waves, no keel, etc). Also for the sake of simplicity and conservatism, lets assume by some miracle that there was no need for floors, which would take up even more space (this directly contradicts Gen 6:14, which instructs Noah to build rooms on the ark). This means the area of the ground floor would have been 33,750 sq. feet and that the total interior cubic feet are as stated above. Of course this is absurd as the animals, food, and NoahCo would have been stacked on top of each other for a year. I also assume that the animals do not have much chance to walk around and exercise. But let’s continue.

    Next we need to know approximately how much space the food for the elephants would have taken up (and ignoring the fact that most of it would have gone bad eventually in a hot damp environment—remember there was only one door and a small window—I would have hated to be on waste removal duty!). This also assumes that the food for only the elephants is being stored on the ground floor, and also ignoring the fact that many animals are carnivores. That would mean that many more than just a pair of many types of animals would have been needed to have been brought aboard to feed any given “chosen pair”. Of course these "feed" animals also needed to be kept alive, many of which were carnivores also, which meant that even more animals would have been needed. It’s a geometrically unsolvable problem for such a situation.

    Given that, Elephants are vegetarians; so lets assume that they were fed hay for the entire year (again ignore the monumental task of growing, harvesting, and storing of such an immense amount of hay by one family). According to this website, "Regardless of bale size and stacking method, any building with 16' sidewalls will accommodate at least 1 ton of hay in every 20 square feet of floor area." This means one ton of hay needs 320 cubic feet of storage. But it does say 'at least', and of course this is assuming ideal conditions. So again for simplicity and conservatism, lets assume one ton of hay needs 300 cubic feet of storage. That means the 182.5 tons of hay needed for just the 4 elephants alone would have take up 54,750 cubic feet!! That’s about 3.6% of the space available on the ark, again assuming ridiculously conservative (and sometimes impossible, i.e., no floors) conditions. If we have adult elephants that eat twice as much (again at a very conservative estimate) that’s 7.2% of the space in the ark for just 4 animals!!!! There is no physical possibility that Noah's ark ever happened. Considering there are anywhere from 1.5-1.8 million KNOWN species, I would love to know how NoahCo ever took care of even the smallest fraction of them. Thank you for reading.
     
  3. JohnR7

    JohnR7 Well-Known Member

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    What is your interpretation?
     
  4. BeamMeUpScotty

    BeamMeUpScotty Senior Veteran

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    Are you asking JohnR7 this? Because I don't believe it was either.
     
  5. JohnR7

    JohnR7 Well-Known Member

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    Nullify nothing.
    We have seen God's miracle of supply.
    So if it is a miracle we see a lot of today,
    why would God not perform the miracle of supply back in the days of Noah?
     
  6. JohnR7

    JohnR7 Well-Known Member

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  7. AV1611VET

    AV1611VET Galatians 3:26 Supporter

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    Jesus is in charge of the Strong Nuclear Force that holds protons together within the nucleus of atoms - (Colossians 1:17).

    Thus, when the time comes, Jesus is simply going to relax His hold on the elements (of the Periodic Table), and the protons are going to fly apart - (2 Peter 3:10,12).
     
  8. BeamMeUpScotty

    BeamMeUpScotty Senior Veteran

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    So why did God bother to tell Noah to gather food for the animals if he was just going to poof it into existence during the "trip"?
     
  9. Self Improvement

    Self Improvement New Member

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    Where is your evidence that birds were aboard the Ark, Noah was on it for over a year, the Ark was "so big", and there would have to be a containment wall for a local flood, or that there was a global flood in the first place?

    Also, if there is a flood in New Orleans, does there need to be a containment wall to keep it from spreading to the entire world? No, there would not be enough water to flood the entire world in a local flood.
     
  10. AV1611VET

    AV1611VET Galatians 3:26 Supporter

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    No, I was asking you; and who said you had to believe it? Can't you explain it anyway, given the variables from the Bible? Or is it too tough?
     
  11. Self Improvement

    Self Improvement New Member

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    What miracle of supply? 850 million people go to bed hungry every night in the developing world.
     
  12. BeamMeUpScotty

    BeamMeUpScotty Senior Veteran

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    But you assumed that I believed it to be true. See my post about the elephants and their food. It would be scientifically impossible for the ark story to happen. I would only be possible through miracles.
     
  13. JohnR7

    JohnR7 Well-Known Member

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    The only thing that got poofed into existance seems to be you. For some reason you just showed up out of no where here on these boards.

    My wife says we have to do our part, and then we can be sure that God will do His part. The Bible talks about different covenants and they use to have Bible classes on covenant theology. Still my wife has a simple way of saying what the theology people can tend to make complicated. We have to do our part of the covenant. Then we can be sure that God will perform His part of the covenant.

    For example we read that "God shall supply all your need" (Philip. 4:19) We can be sure that God will provide for all we need, even if He has to perform a miracle to do it.

    There are lots and lots and lots of promises like this in the Bible. There is vast wealth and provision there for those who want to claim the promises of God.
     
  14. JohnR7

    JohnR7 Well-Known Member

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    We have no problem to receive the miracles of God.
     
  15. JohnR7

    JohnR7 Well-Known Member

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    No one goes to bed hungry that is trusting in God to provide for them.
     
  16. BeamMeUpScotty

    BeamMeUpScotty Senior Veteran

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    I don't quite understand your first statement. Please check my join date. These are public forums and anyone is allowed to join, yes? Sometimes I might not post for a while because I have other things to do than check out a web forum, or there just isn't anything interesting to post about.

    You also avoided answering my question by shifting the goal posts.
     
  17. Self Improvement

    Self Improvement New Member

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    So maybe their just not trusting in God enough, right?
     
  18. Self Improvement

    Self Improvement New Member

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    I guess none of those poeple trust in God, makes sense to me...not.
     
  19. BeamMeUpScotty

    BeamMeUpScotty Senior Veteran

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    You said your wife is from the Philippines, where a majority of the people are Christian. Yet why is there such widespread poverty and deprivation? These people are trusting in God to provide for them, but they are still poor and hungry.
     
  20. JohnR7

    JohnR7 Well-Known Member

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    The Bible answers this, it took that long for the water to go down.

    Birds can not fly forever, they would have to land on something sooner or later.

    There were a lot of animals in Eden, mostly domesticated animals. God wanted to save them to repopulate the world.

    Science tell us that they were created by the glaciers. As they ice pushed land before them.
     
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