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QUOTE="Imagican, post: 68872112, member: 137539"]Remember what I stated from the beginning? IN CONTEXT. And if the words of Paul are taken IN CONTEXT, his reference to 'tongues of Angels' is nothing more than an allusion to something that may well have no actual validity whatsoever. You know, like saying, "If I could FLY but have no charity..................". or "If I were the richest man on the planet but have no charity...............". There is NOTHING offered that would indicate what you have tried to offer as VALID. If there WERE 'tongues of Angels' and they sounded like gibberish, I am quite SURE that it would be KNOWLEDGE, not something 'made up'.
The first evidences of tongues re-emerged among men were at Azusa Street. These were spontaneous and real glossolalia for a large part. You get carried along by Spirit and say what came not from you.
You obviously IGNORED all that I offered and instead chose to try and defend the use of gibberish as 'unknown tongues', not from a biblical perspective, for that's IMPOSSIBLE without taking words out of the Bible OUT OF CONTEXT, but instead, tried to defend a BELIEF system that is utterly opposed to the TRUTH offered IN the Bible. Not surprising. Because you probably believe in being 'slain in the spirit' and a number of other specific behavior that exists in certain denominations formed and perpetuated by MEN who chose to ignore what they are offered in the Bible.
So you don't believe a person can be "slain" either. This is in fact an observed event, and not even COVERED by the Bible, unless that was what happened when Jesus was about to be taken and they "fell down."
I observed a young girl who was visiting our congregation. AofG, and there was no impetus to DO THIS for anyone. Some might end up on the ground but by volition usually as a prostration. But she really did get slain and "saw heaven" without any personal volition to do so. I saw her eyes, smile and expression of wonder and knew it really did happen to her.
Also the in-law of the pastor said to me he was often slain. No drama, for he was never dramatic. No pride or foolishness at all. I've seen him on his back once, and he seemed to me supremely happy.
If someone was truly 'slain the spirit', why would someone stand behind them to catch them? If it was 'God's will' that someone FALL DOWN backwards, wouldn't it be contrary to His will to CATCH THEM? What if God's will was for someone to DIE from their fall in order to save their soul? And YOU caught them and prevented it?
Em, since you watch too much TV? That isn't the real deal, sir. Ain't no catchers in any congregation I've seen. Someone may be fallin' over backwards and another might try to keep their heads from bangin'. But oddly enough I've never seen an injury. Some specific times there COULD have been one. But alas God is behind the Spirit and no one gets hurt.
But back to gibberish being called 'unknown tongues'.
What makes you think you know a SINGLE thing about real tongues, sir? Ever seen it? Heard it? Nope.
There is absolutely NOTHING to gained from speaking in gibberish that YOU don't even understand or anyone around you. Other than 'self edification'. According to those that practice it, it is a SIGN of being 'born in the Spirit'. So it would certainly be of significance to those that wanted others to THINK that they were truly 'born again'. And it would indicate that those that speak in such a manner were MORE 'spiritual' or MORE acceptable to God.
Most times we keep our tongues to ourselves. Like I said you watch Benny Hinn TOO MUCH.
But Paul's words of rebuke to those in Corinth FALSELY using tongues in such a manner are PERFECTLY clear to those that are capable of discernment.
You aren't pentecostal so you HAVE no discernment, sir.
Unknown Tongues were FOR A SIGN. NOT to them that BELIEVE, but to them that BELIEVE NOT. And if gibberish doesn't offer a COMPREHENSIBLE sign to NON BELIEVERS, then whatever gibberish one is speaking is NOT the 'unknown tongues' being referenced. Doesn't take a Rocket Scientist to CLEARLY see the TRUTH of the words above. But it does take a willingness to understand and ACCEPT them.
Blah blah and blah. Rocket scientists also have no idea under this sun what CAN happen.
And then Paul plainly states that tongues would CEASE. So all we need to discern is WHEN. And he answers that question as well. "When that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away". Now the only question left is: what IS that which is perfect? And some stumble at this like it's a railroad tie.
Tongues HAVE ceased and they will wane and come back. Mark my words.
All one needs to do is place these words in context. Determine WHAT Paul is talking about. And the answer is CLEAR to those that are capable of proper discernment.
You can't rationalize a supernatural event. This idea is hokey and awry. But many believe as you do. So what?
Paul spent an entire chapter taking about 'charity'. The ability and willingness to share with others. So what he's referring to is the LEARNING and PRACTICING of 'charity'. He even states that NOTHING one can DO means ANYTHING without 'charity'. This would INCLUDE the use of an 'unknown tongue'. Giving. Feeding. Whatever one DOES means NOTHING without it being done out of CHARITY.
Uh yes. The MAIN gift of the Holy Spirit baptism is actually the LOVE OF YHWH and in extension the love of his beloved Son.
This is because we FELT the pure touch of the Living God, sir. We have the jump and the LEAP to do Shema. Foretold in Deut 30 for many. Not you, apparently.
So, with this in mind, it then becomes apparent: that which is perfect isn't reference the return of Christ as many suggest. It means that when WE, as followers of Christ, come to a perfect understanding of 'charity' and the ability to practice it.
Yes, charity to others comes from the pure love that man CAN have for God. A supernatural love which makes a man relatively righteous.
He states that NOW, we see through a glass DARKLY. But then, (when we learn to understand and practice 'charity'), we will KNOW Christ as He already KNOWS us. And this is NOT referencing a RETURN. It's in reference to RIGHT THIS VERY MOMENT. Or the very moment in which Paul uttered these words which was two thousand years ago.
Nothing about any tongues, prophesies or inspiration which IS totally clear. It ain't something you can read in a textbook for instance. Maybe a prophet or two actually HEARD the voice of YHWH. MANY however had this mystical spirit relationship with God. BAT QOL voice of God isn't like me speaken to you sir. I don't know exactly WHAT it is, only that the prophets had this channel or way of communication.
And then there is the 'putting away of childish things'. This in DIRECT confrontation to the false use of 'unknown tongues'. For if those that were/are practicing such things EVER come to the truth, they will clearly recognize that it offers NO EDIFICATION of others and only to ONESELF. And that is about as childish as anything can be. We become ADULTS in Christ when we learn what it means to offer ourselves for the SAKE of others. The trivial pursuits of Baptism, speaking in tongues, eating wafers, ALL these things pale in comparison to the TRUTH of what it means to be a TRUE follower. For it's not ritual that Christ came to teach, but LOVE. And those that learn what love is and how to share it among each other don't NEED any such trivial things in the lives any longer. They 'put away such childish things'.
Do you think THIS is childish, sir?
The Talmud also says that "the Shekinah rests on man neither through gloom, nor through sloth, nor through frivolity, nor through levity, nor through talk, nor through idle chatter, but only through a matter of joy in connection with a precept, as it is said, But now bring me a minstrel. And it came to pass, when the minstrel played, that the hand of the Lord came upon him". [2Kings 3:15] [Shabbat 30b][
citation needed]
The Shekinah is associated with the transformational spirit of God regarded as the source of prophecy:
After that thou shalt come to the hill of God, where is the garrison of the Philistines; and it shall come to pass, when thou art come thither to the city, that thou shalt meet a band of prophets coming down from the high place with a psaltery, and a timbrel, and a pipe, and a harp, before them; and they will be prophesying. And the spirit of the LORD will come mightily upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man.
1 Sam 10.
For it is NOT about the first moment we are introduced to Christ, it's about what we LEARN and DO afterwards. Some insist that they NEED that original feeling and do whatever they are able seeking to repeat it for their own self edification. But the Bible tells us that we suppose to GROW UP instead of remaining BABES in Christ. And by growing up it means to PUT AWAY childish things so far as SELF edification and start DOING that which pertains to learning and practicing the LOVE that Christ has shared with US.
I agree. Baptism in Spirit is the ENTRY into Covenant. And faith has to be built upon faith. FROM faith to faith we grow.
By the way, this IS the "Free Gift" Paul spoke of. The ENTRY into Covenant is the promise of the Father. The Baptism in Spirit. But now and now we are just starting our Shema race for the Living God. And this race will COST a man all he has.
Have you just heard true gospel, sir? Clap your HANDS and shout HALLELUYAH!!
Roll in them aisles and SEE how far you can twirl around in circles. MEE HAW.
