The evils of sexualizing our youth

[gurneyhalleck1]

Jay-Z has a connection to Aleister Crowley...who knew?

 

[Dorothea]

My 20 year old niece looks all American, as apple pie. You would think, by her appearance she is so sweet and well behaved. Then she opens her mouth and I do not jest, she sounds like the love child of a drunken sailor and a construction worker. Even when she is complimenting someone or saying something, out come a series of four letter words. Then there is the crude sex and bathroom humor that she thinks is hilarious. I suppose that fits with the entertainment today though, because every TV show or film advertised as a comedy, seems to be nothing but one crude sex or bathroom joke after another.

Have you noticed the increase in people talking with food in their mouth and smacking on their food. I cannot get over how many adults do this today. I was on a business trip this past fall and visited a parish in that area, where a woman did this the whole time through the agape meal. Then when she would ask me a question and I would gesture that I had food in my mouth some of them would mimick me like it was a joke I would talk while eating. My priest actually says it is because we live in a post Christian society and basic manners like belching and closing your mouth while chewing all come from our faith. He had a whole homily on the subject this past fall, which I found quite fascinating.

Yes, I noticed most of the comedies nowadays are that way. The word that comes to my mind is "tacky." I really don't find that type of talk humorous. I find it classless and tacky, as I said.

Yes, I noticed there is more of smacking one's food. When I was growing up, boy was my dad strict on table manners. I distinctly remember one time when I shoveled my food, not holding my fork right, and I got the handle end of a butter knife wrapped against my knuckles by dad. He said to quit shoveling my food and to hold my fork right. He also did not tolerate smacking food or elbows on the table. Wow. Nowadays, nobody cares if you are leaning one or both elbows on the table, whether you talk with a mouth full of food, or belch afterwards loudly, or smack your food. It's pretty gross to listen and see. I noticed it mostly when I am around my son's school friends, and when I had lunch duty a couple years ago. It doesn't seem parents are teaching their children manners at the table any longer. Really, when you think about it....when was the last time you heard someone say "excuse me" when they would have to leave the table or when they were finished? I'm even guilty of not doing that, even though I was brought up to do so. I hardly ever do it. I've become lax in that department as well, and of course, the society isn't helping me or motivating me or others to remember to do so.

That's very interesting what your priest said. I hadn't thought about that. That could go along with the indifference of people these days and apathy.

It truly is a shame that girls talk like that. I find it offensive enough when males talk like that. When girls do so, it's downright classless and unladylike, if you ask me. But nobody seems to care anymore.

I remember waiting in line to pick up my son at the school he was attending a couple years ago, and the windows were down as I waited in my car. I then heard someone use the "MF" terrible curse word, and thought it was some teenaged boy. Nope, it was a girl from the middle school next to the elementary school my son was attending at the time. My gosh, I was totally shocked.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

oh Jay-Z. I know some folks were up in arms because he does that handsign where he looks through the opening of his index fingers and thumbs, with folks thinking that is a Masonic All seeing eye connection. but I never saw a Crowley connection until now. yeesh.

Yeah, some folks say it's just for stage presence/entertainment. Or making things up. But some things are not easily explained away - and you don't make a song praising the Devil as being the one who was worth respect and say "I was just messing"..

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I am vaguely aware that she had claimed she was a Christian years ago when my friend was talking about how Beyonce had veered off the path and was saying things like "What are you doing, Beyonce?!". And continued by telling me her disappointment in Beyonce.

Your friend had a lot of the same sentiments I relate to - as I've said the same thing for awhile. More frustrated at the Christian musicians/artists who befriended her and never confronted her on her lifestyle and yet still said she was a fellow believer..

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Yeah, it's unfortunate a lot of the "kid" movies and tv shows do have that underlying sexual bit. Innuendo is quite obvious in some kids' movies. I've been told, and I don't know if it's because they don't really care or don't think it's of concern, but some ppl will say that it's over the child's head so since they don't know what's going on or what it's about, it's ok. For me, it depends on how it's displayed in movies and if crude behavior is surrounding it.

For many parents, it seems the mindset is that children have to mentally understand something in order to recieve it, process it and live it out...and thus, if a movie has adult jokes in it, it's okay since the child won't recieve it.

My women's church grp got together this past Tuesday night and were discussing the changes in ppl over the past several generations and how being rude is no big deal these days. Examples Presbytera gave were girls speaking such foul language worse than boys and one of her fellow teachers burping loudly in front of her - younger woman - without trying to do so quietly or saying "excuse me." I'm wondering how it's going to be for our kids and their kids after them. I'm afraid I don't see it getting better.

The ways girls are busting out F-Bombs easily nowadays is wild - and some of the prettiest girls were quickly made unattractive by how foul they were in their language alone. The same with manners such as being extremely loud/obnoxious in public or having bad attitudes and thinking it's cute

 

[Dorothea]

Your friend had a lot of the same sentiments I relate to - as I've said the same thing for awhile. More frustrated at the Christian musicians/artists who befriended her and never confronted her on her lifestyle and yet still said she was a fellow believer..

I wonder if that's because trying to fit in and not wanting to say something that may make them feel less of a friend to her. You know what I mean? We lack courage sometimes in being honest in a loving manner when our friends need to hear it.

 

[Dorothea]

For many parents, it seems the mindset is that children have to mentally understand something in order to recieve it, process it and live it out...and thus, if a movie has adult jokes in it, it's okay since the child won't recieve it.
The ways girls are busting out F-Bombs easily nowadays is wild - and some of the prettiest girls were quickly made unattractive by how foul they were in their language alone. The same with manners such as being extremely loud/obnoxious in public or having bad attitudes and thinking it's cute

True. People would look at me and my views see me as "old fashioned" and "goody-goody," but that's fine with me.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

True. People would look at me and my views see me as "old fashioned" and "goody-goody," but that's fine with me.

Wouldn't let that bother you a bit - as it's all about the fruit and the proof is in the pudding. It's kind of like parents who talk on how helpful it is to not discipline your kids and how they are doing the right thing by being their child's friend all the time - with their kids continually raising a lot of heck for them The same goes for girls talking about the need for others to respect them and saying they respect themselves - despite the fact that their actions always attract the wrong kind of guys and don't help them out.

If people call you old fashioned, I'd say they're outdated - and it's not old fashioned as much as it is retro/classic

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I wonder if that's because trying to fit in and not wanting to say something that may make them feel less of a friend to her. You know what I mean? We lack courage sometimes in being honest in a loving manner when our friends need to hear it.

So true. I know many have said that their goal was to reach her by finding ways of working together with her and feeling that once a person confesses Christ/becomes saved, that's it....and that it'd be rude to call the salvation of another into question. Others felt that it was upon the Lord alone to speak to her heart and their role was to simply pray for her/let them know they love her - and others simply may've felt they were being a friend/speaking what was true but they were really decieved since they didn't know the scriptures/history - speaking more so out of cultural Christianity rather than Biblical Christianity.

But sometimes, you do risk friendship in speaking in disagreement with a lifestyle choic and not simply saying it's all good.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Yeah, some folks say it's just for stage presence/entertainment. Or making things up. But some things are easily explained away - and you don't make a song praising the Devil as being the one who was worth respect and say "I was just messing"..

yeah, not to sound all conspiratorial or anything, but I can't look at this and not think that there is some sinister spirit behind it all.

 

[Ignatius21]

So, since the cat has been out of the bag for a good long while in this land, what are practical things we can do to keep our kids from being sexualized when we're saturated in it?

For example, private schools aren't feasible for a good many people...and some of the most obscene things happen in those schools anyway.

I know people who forbid their daughters to wear things they consider provocative, only to end up with daughters who rebel in all kinds of other ways, and have problems with their friends whose parents do let them dress like that.

How do I teach my son not to objectify women, when so many women make a business of objectifying themselves? `

It always seems that one of the outcomes of "women's liberation" has been to enslave them even more to the oversexed passions of men (who are then chastized for not being respectful).

So how do you all deal with this?

 

[Gxg (G²)]

yeah, not to sound all conspiratorial or anything, but I can't look at this and not think that there is some sinister spirit behind it all.

A lot of artists have noted the sinister connection before. Even Michael Jackson noted the issue when saying the ways that the industry itself has used people on an extensive level/tried to hide it -noting how people behind the curtain were pulling the strings - and although some say it's conspiratorial, some things just seem like you're taking crazy pills when artists come out admitting things and people think "Nah...that's reading too much into it." Going through the lyrics of Jackson as well as seeing some of his other activities/what he admitted to myself, I don't see how anyone could explain things away.

That is in addition to seeing what was said by others in the media world such as movie stars - when sharing the ways that they gained influence on scales that stlll baffle many. Denzel Washington, for example) noted how he prayed to/channeled spiirts for his role in "Training Day" - and the way he portrayed Malcom X and even recited a speech from the man he had never studied after the scene was over. Jenifer Lopez has also noted how she saw a witch-doctor who'd prayed over her CDs to be successful....and a lot of other former artists who've since become saved have noted how many had witches come in - hired by the music businesses - to come in/pray over their material. The rap group "Bone Thugs & Harmony" is notorious for this - as they had Oujia boards/seances in their videos and I was floored seeing their album covers and how they wrote incantations as well....but because many never thought that rap could be used for that in the 90s, it was never considered seriously.

One of the men who used to be with the early 90s R&B group "Color Me Badd" and made the hit single "I Wanna Sex You Up" has since became saved and noted the extensive list of demonic things that he and his group did to achieve that hit single - praying that women would be willing to give up their virginity when they heard that song...and many did just that. Other groups have done the same thing - WuTang clan being chief amongst them in their views against Christ/videos made on the issue. Thank goodness that Kevin Thorton (the former member of "Color Me Badd") got out when he did and now testifies for Christ alongside so many others. Professor Griff , One of the former members of the popular rap group "Public Enemy" also noted the issue of how so many don't know what the music industry is into..

To me, it makes sense that there are sinister spirits behind the music industry in light of how our chief battle has and will always be the spiritual - Ephesians 6 ("For we wrestle not against flesh and blood...") - and it is interesting to see the ways cultures handled themselves historically with many never seeing music as a amoral issue or a venue that could not be open for demonic tranmission of ideas (as music can literally download things into others easier than conversation since it bypasses the critical/thinking side of your mind and goes automatically for your emotions).

There were others who were basically channelers of spirits - and many today who still are. There was a documentary on National Geographic where they were documenting a Hindu ceremony of some type in India where they were trying to help this man with bad dreams he was having and the ways he was manifesting demonic power - with the ritual itself being based with musical background to accompany it. Happens often - and If the music wasn't important for the platform of what was going on, they'd not do it - and it does seem in the Western world that there's a rationalistic mindset that often takes place to explain things even when they are very obvious...

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Yes, I noticed most of the comedies nowadays are that way. The word that comes to my mind is "tacky." I really don't find that type of talk humorous. I find it classless and tacky, as I said.It truly is a shame that girls talk like that. I find it offensive enough when males talk like that. When girls do so, it's downright classless and unladylike, if you ask me. But nobody seems to care anymore.

I remember waiting in line to pick up my son at the school he was attending a couple years ago, and the windows were down as I waited in my car. I then heard someone use the "MF" terrible curse word, and thought it was some teenaged boy. Nope, it was a girl from the middle school next to the elementary school my son was attending at the time. My gosh, I was totally shocked.

The humor nowadays is not even funny anymore overall. It's just dirty and crudeness for its own sake - and so many think that having raunchy humor makes things more memorable. Many of the movies that come out with girls/guys are outright disgusting and it's a trip.

 

[inconsequential]

Regarding manners, I get most of the things mentioned and stress them to my son. I never understood the elbows on the table thing though. Sure, slouching or almost lying on the table, but just letting it rest there between bites? I don't mind belching if you cover your mouth and say, "excuse me". Isn't it considered a compliment to the cook in some cultures or is that a myth?

Just curious as I've seen folks derided and embarrassed by others for violating familial customs that weren't "self evident" as smacking or chewing with an open mouth are.

 

[gracefullamb]

.

 

[ArmyMatt]

A lot of artists have noted the sinister connection before. Even Michael Jackson noted the issue when saying the ways that the industry itself has used people on an extensive level/tried to hide it -noting how people behind the curtain were pulling the strings - and although some say it's conspiratorial, some things just seem like you're taking crazy pills when artists come out admitting things and people think "Nah...that's reading too much into it." Going through the lyrics of Jackson as well as seeing some of his other activities/what he admitted to myself, I don't see how anyone could explain things away.

That is in addition to seeing what was said by others in the media world such as movie stars - when sharing the ways that they gained influence on scales that stlll baffle many. Denzel Washington, for example) noted how he prayed to/channeled spiirts for his role in "Training Day" - and the way he portrayed Malcom X and even recited a speech from the man he had never studied after the scene was over. Jenifer Lopez has also noted how she saw a witch-doctor who'd prayed over her CDs to be successful....and a lot of other former artists who've since become saved have noted how many had witches come in - hired by the music businesses - to come in/pray over their material. The rap group "Bone Thugs & Harmony" is notorious for this - as they had Oujia boards/seances in their videos and I was floored seeing their album covers and how they wrote incantations as well....but because many never thought that rap could be used for that in the 90s, it was never considered seriously.

One of the men who used to be with the early 90s R&B group "Color Me Badd" and made the hit single "I Wanna Sex You Up" has since became saved and noted the extensive list of demonic things that he and his group did to achieve that hit single - praying that women would be willing to give up their virginity when they heard that song...and many did just that. Other groups have done the same thing - WuTang clan being chief amongst them in their views against Christ/videos made on the issue. Thank goodness that Kevin Thorton (the former member of "Color Me Badd") got out when he did and now testifies for Christ alongside so many others. Professor Griff , One of the former members of the popular rap group "Public Enemy" also noted the issue of how so many don't know what the music industry is into..

To me, it makes sense that there are sinister spirits behind the music industry in light of how our chief battle has and will always be the spiritual - Ephesians 6 ("For we wrestle not against flesh and blood...") - and it is interesting to see the ways cultures handled themselves historically with many never seeing music as a amoral issue or a venue that could not be open for demonic tranmission of ideas (as music can literally download things into others easier than conversation since it bypasses the critical/thinking side of your mind and goes automatically for your emotions).

There were others who were basically channelers of spirits - and many today who still are. There was a documentary on National Geographic where they were documenting a Hindu ceremony of some type in India where they were trying to help this man with bad dreams he was having and the ways he was manifesting demonic power - with the ritual itself being based with musical background to accompany it. Happens often - and If the music wasn't important for the platform of what was going on, they'd not do it - and it does seem in the Western world that there's a rationalistic mindset that often takes place to explain things even when they are very obvious...

yep, it is like the documentary They Sold Their Souls for Rock and Roll. scary stuff.

 

[27B6]

...

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I never understood the elbows on the table thing though. Sure, slouching or almost lying on the table, but just letting it rest there between bites? I don't mind belching if you cover your mouth and say, "excuse me". Isn't it considered a compliment to the cook in some cultures or is that a myth?

Just curious as I've seen folks derided and embarrassed by others for violating familial customs that weren't "self evident" as smacking or chewing with an open mouth are.

The culture you're in often makes a world of difference in the things you notice as not being good manners.

In the Indian, Pakistani, Arab and African cultures that shun silverware, eating with your hands is significant ...but it doesn’t mean that anything goes. Before the meal, the hands must be washed, wiped or even rubbed with sand, as desert Arabs do. But the foremost rule is that only the right hand may be employed for eating.

In Arab culture, hospitality is a big deal and to not give such is a grave insult...and very hurtful when hospitality is rejected. In many places, people may think neighbors giving food/gift baskets are doing so to bless others - and blessing is one factor - but it is often done as a means of setting up an account so that others can ask for favors later on...and to reject blessing back is deemed offensive as well as avoiding paying a debt. In Arab culture, a host should always offer snack foods to visitors and one should accept what is offered to you as a guest, but only after modestly refusing the first offer. It is assumed that guests will accept at least a small quantity of drink (tea usually or sometimes Arabic coffee) offered as an expression of friendship or esteem. It is considered rude to decline the offer of drink. Also, whereas it would be deemed rude in the West to leave food on the plate and deemed wasteful, not eating everything on one’s plate is considered a compliment. It is a sign of wealth when an Arab can afford to leave food behind. Additionally, Egyptians, especially the host, see it as an insult if you add salt to your food; it shows that you don’t like the food the way it was prepared for you (“Egypt-Language&#8221. That's something many Americans found out the hard way when chilling with Egyptian Americans for dinner - and surprised to see that keeping elbows off the table and having traditional manners they were used to didn't prevent insult.

Some were shocked to discover that when invited to an Arab home, it is expected that one leave shortly after dinner. The dinner is the climax of conversation and entertainment...and it is expected that one avoid discussions on political issues (national and international), religion, alcohol, and male-female relations over dinner or tea.

Some of the other cultural norms are fascinating to study - such as how some families find it offensive to not remove shoes before entering the house ( as occurs in Asian - especially Japanese - homes). And as shared in the thread entitled OT - Parents and Kissing Their Children ( #18 #17 ), even norms with physical body language can switch significantly depending on where you're at. For many, the desire is to keep their children from being sexualized needlessly - and some of the things they say which may seem extreme to many come from that basis...such as saying that men shouldn't hug other men because it's a sign of "same-sex attraction" and that women hugging men is crossing physical boundaries. And yet in many cultures, not hugging is deemed offensive.....and it's expected for men and women to hug one another as a greeting/sign of respect. The same even goes for certain levels of kissing. Because the culture has taken those things and perverted it, many have responded by rejecting it outright - but others are focused on redeeming those actions. Some things may never be an easy issue - such as the debates on kids, boys and girls, taking showers together ..examples being the kibbutz schools where boys/girls were raised together even though others felt it was best for them to be raised seperate so as to not be too comfortable with each other/become sexualized or unable to learn their proper gender roles..



Trippy enough to see that many older parents came from homes where the father/mother slept in seperate beds/bedrooms - and for many families seeking to avoid sexualization of children, they would advocate this...

Of course, it is not the rule for everyone nor has it always been. People forget that for so many thousands of years, parents and children slept together; parents and grandparents carried babies everywhere with some kind of babywearing device.. and we were not long separate from our children. It's only in recent years we have more than 1 room to our houses, or a dedicated "children's bed" in Western society. Many families lived in the same tent---with no seperate rooms...but they often slept by themselves in their own rugs. In many families, this is a reality---but its not as if it is always like that. Family sleeping was not something that happened only in eras from long ago...as it often occurs in Indian families...and many have noted that there needs to be distinction between those sleeping together out of cultural preferences and those doing so due to constraint. For more, some references:

• The Gaddi of India

• Exploring cultural differences and similarities

Amazing to see the ways all are trying to have good manners and avoid sexual objectification and yet all have differences on the issue...

 

[Gxg (G²)]

yep, it is like the documentary They Sold Their Souls for Rock and Roll. scary stuff.

Thankfully the Lord is in control and as messed up as it may be, in Him we know that He has won - and laughs at others trying to defy him (Psalm 2:2)

 

[Gxg (G²)]

LOL. You should see how Japanese slurp ramen or clean up a bowl of rice. Except in that situation it is considered strange to eat a bowl quietly, especially for men. I always enjoyed eating at a ramen shop because it's fun to make loud slurping noises and have it considered appropriate behavior. Actually, I did find that slurping improved the flavor, kind of like aeration improves wine.

That's awesome