The evidence for Evolution.

[-57]

My position is that I do not believe your claim at a God exists. My position is that you have not met a sufficient burden of proof for this claim of existence. I have seen no positive evidence for such, and I continue to see plentiful evidence for the absence of any deity with the properties traditionally assigned to the Judaeo-Christian deity.

At least admitt the possibility for a diety..I'll show why it is the God of the bible later.

 

[-57]

I have not claimed there is no God/gods.

Then change your faith tag fro atheist to seeker.

 

[Gene2memE]

Where is it a logical contradiction? You say this rhetoric...but never say why.

It's special pleading and circular.

Essentially the argument goes:
There is nothing that started without a creator, except the creator itself. How do we know there was a uncreated creator? Because there is a creation and creation can't start without a creator.

I don't pretend to have an answer to the telological argument - I just find the 'uncreated creator'/god of necessity argument logically incomprehensible/rationally unjustified.

 

[-57]

It's special pleading and circular.

Essentially the argument goes:
There is nothing that started without a creator, except the creator itself. How do we know there was a uncreated creator? Because there is a creation and creation can't start without a creator.

I don't pretend to have an answer to the telological argument - I just find the 'uncreated creator'/god of necessity argument logically incomprehensible/rationally unjustified.

You are still dodging thie issue as to where stuff came from

 

[Gene2memE]

Then change your faith tag fro atheist to seeker.

No.

Atheist means without belief. I lack belief in God or gods. I have no belief in the Abrahimic God, nor the Norse or Greek pantheons, nor Shiva, or Vishnu, or Ahura Mazda.

Ergo, I am an atheist.

And please, don't make the claim that atheists believe there is no God/gods. That's a belief held by one small subset of atheists - known variously as anti-theists or 'hard' atheists - and is not the position I hold to.

I make no claims about existence. I'm fine with the concept that a God/gods could exist. I'm also fine with the concept that god/Gods might not. My lack of belief in the positive existence of deities is provisional, based on a lack of evidence for the claim. Much like I lack a belief as to whether there is a small, beautifully decorated teapot in orbit around Mars.

I'm also not making any knowledge claim about the existence of deities. I am, in this sense, agnostic.

So, I am both an atheist, and an agnostic. These are not mutually exclusive positions. When I was a theist, I believed that God existed, but I never took the position that I knew whether God existed or not.

Atheism answers my question concerning belief. It is a response to the claim of theists that 'There is a God/gods'. This response is: "I don't believe you, show me some evidence."
Agnosticism answers my question concerning knowledge. It is the position about my uncertainty over whether a God/gods exist. I don't know whether there is a God/gods, I don't know whether there isn't. I'm not in a position of knowledge regarding either.

 

[Gene2memE]

You are still dodging thie issue as to where stuff came from

Not dodging. I've already admitted that I don't know, and I don't think that anyone else does either.

I'm fine with 'I don't know' until some sufficiently persuasive evidence comes along - and no, I don't consider the cosmological argument, the teleological argument, the fine tuning argument or any of the other 'how did we get here' arguments sufficiently persuasive arguments for deism, let alone the interventionist Abrahimic deity.

 

[SteveB28]

Let me repeat:
1) If the universe existed from eternity past....today would never arrive. Yet, here we are.

Then your god has the same problem, since you assert that it has existed forever.........are you sure you want to promote that argument....?

 

[Jimmy D]

Then your god has the same problem, since you assert that it has existed forever.........are you sure you want to promote that argument....?

Yeah, but that doesn't count, he's like, eternal.

 

[USincognito]

Then your god has the same problem, since you assert that it has existed forever.........are you sure you want to promote that argument....?

Again, apologetics is not appropriate for this subforum.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

When you can demonstrate how something can self create itself from nothing....get back to me.

Why would I do that?
I'm not making any claims about "nothing".

You are the one doing that.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Let me repeat:
1) If the universe existed from eternity past....today would never arrive. Yet, here we are.
2) If the universe existed from eternity past then through entropy it would have lost all it's energy eons ago.

Again... these what if's are useless because we know that time doesn't stretch into an infinite past.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I agree...which is a major problem for you and how stuff got here.

It is not at all a problem for me, because I'm not making any claims about the origins of the universe.

I'm content being honest about the question of origins... and that honest answer is that we simply do not know.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Or you like to think...there is no God.

I lose about as much sleep over the (in)existance of gods as I do about the (in)existance of undetectable pixies.

 

[-57]

Then your god has the same problem, since you assert that it has existed forever.........are you sure you want to promote that argument....?

Absolutly. It just shows you don't understand the argument.

 

[SteveB28]

Absolutly. It just shows you don't understand the argument.

I understand it to the point that you are able to extend it....

You claim that the universe cannot have existed eternally, as it would be part of an infinite regress which means that 'now' could never arrive.

Fine. If you are going to postulate an eternally existing god, then it runs into the same problem.

Unless you are going to specially plead for an exception, of course.......



.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

Do you believe them?

If you don't, do you object if I don't either?

Of course not. I posed the question because both your positions (and thousands of other unsupported positions about gods & religion) have exactly the same support & evidence going for them. I find it perplexing that you've picked this particular religious narrative over all the ones available and profess 100% conviction in it.

 

[AV1611VET]

Of course not.

Thank you, sir!

 

[-57]

I understand it to the point that you are able to extend it....

You claim that the universe cannot have existed eternally, as it would be part of an infinite regress which means that 'now' could never arrive.

Fine. If you are going to postulate an eternally existing god, then it runs into the same problem.

Unless you are going to specially plead for an exception, of course.......



.

No problem....God existed in an eternity...dimension(s) before He created time.

 

[SteveB28]

No problem....God existed in an eternity...dimension(s) before He created time.

What a load of rubbish!

Please explain how ANYTHING can exist without the element of time!



.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

What a load of rubbish!

Please explain how ANYTHING can exist without the element of time!

It's a miracle!!