The Devils Greatest Trick

[Pozessed]

Some say the Devils greatest trick was to convince man he doesn't exist. Though that may be true, I think a better trick may be more worrisome and worth consideration.

I perceive all religious texts to draw conflict with one another. Sometimes the conflicts are tolerable, other times the conflicts led to boundless disagreements and possibly bloodshed.
One way or another, all religious texts can be interpreted differently. So even if 2 people read the same text, they can perceive it to have opposite meanings.
All of this translation of which each doctrine depicts as truth, leads to conflict and diversity. The conflict and diversity appears to become segregation and intolerance. The intolerance seems to lead to frustration and devastation.
This may not always be the case, but it appears to happen a lot, especially over the course of human history in ways that could be considered atrocious.

I don't think the Devils greatest trick was getting humans to believe he does not exist. I think Satans best trick was getting people to believe they needed indoctrination when God was nothing but a thought away. People not believing Satan exists would be his second greatest achievement. Strategically speaking, if my goal was to keep people from communicating with a presence that is always with them, I would distract them from that presence. There has been no better distraction from God, than people believing God can be found in a book. That is, if my premise of God being present with everyone were true, because then a book would not be required.

 

[com7fy8]

There has been no better distraction from God, than people believing God can be found in a book. That is, if my premise of God being present with everyone were true, because then a book would not be required.

Then also it would not be needed for you to write something about this.

My philosophy about God is that He is personal; so yes He does share personally. But this can be by means of words and writing, but not limited to words.

And He communicates deeper than words >

"God resists the proud,
.But gives grace to the humble."
. . . . . . . . . (in James 4:6, 1 Peter 5:5)

So, even the proud have God personally communicating with them, by means of His resistance. And this can be deeper than words > His action can speak louder than words

In His love we have deeper-than-words communication. He proves Himself, no matter what people say

 

[Pozessed]

Then also it would not be needed for you to write something about this.

My philosophy about God is that He is personal; so yes He does share personally. But this can be by means of words and writing, but not limited to words.

And He communicates deeper than words >

"God resists the proud,
.But gives grace to the humble."
. . . . . . . . . (in James 4:6, 1 Peter 5:5)

So, even the proud have God personally communicating with them, by means of His resistance. And this can be deeper than words > His action can speak louder than words

In His love we have deeper-than-words communication. He proves Himself, no matter what people say

It would be needed if the influence of indoctrinated deception can persuade a person to ignore their innermost companionship with God. Do you agree?

I hope I didn't come across as arrogant or bigoted.
I wanted to add substance to my thoughts and consider other peoples opinions. I apologize if I seem to implicate anything more than that.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I think Satan's greatest trick is getting people to believe that God doesn't exist.

 

[Pozessed]

I think Satan's greatest trick is getting people to believe that God doesn't exist.

I don't think it matters to the creator whether or not people believe in the creators existence. I think a creators only priority would be that the divine plan is fulfilled.
I think it is obvious our creator is a humble character. Why else would there be so much controversy over how/why/if a divine creator exists?
I think it would be contradictory to the evidence of a humble creator to assume the creator is an exalted character.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I don't think it matters to the creator whether or not people believe in the creators existence. I think a creators only priority would be that the divine plan is fulfilled.
I think it is obvious our creator is a humble character. Why else would there be so much controversy over how/why/if a divine creator exists?
I think it would be contradictory to the evidence of a humble creator to assume the creator is an exalted character.

I would argue the opposite. Recall that Jesus humbled himself only to his Father, not to men. The capstone of God's plan is the restoration of his glory. Christ will return in power and glory. The transfiguration showed the coming glory of Christ.

 

[Pozessed]

I would argue the opposite. Recall that Jesus humbled himself only to his Father, not to men. The capstone of God's plan is the restoration of his glory. Christ will return in power and glory. The transfiguration showed the coming glory of Christ.

How do you know Christs story isn't one of many indoctrinations influenced by Satan to divide and conquer people. As I said, strategically that would be the best means of distraction from an ever present creator.

 

[Messy]

How do you know Christs story isn't one of many indoctrinations influenced by Satan to divide and conquer people. As I said, strategically that would be the best means of distraction from an ever present creator.

Maybe because you can kick him out in His Name.

 

[Pozessed]

Maybe because you can kick him out in His Name.

Considering humanities faults, I'd assume our ability to suspect the deception to be quite miniscule. Especially if we acted on behalf of the deception in the name of the creator.

 

[com7fy8]

In post #7 >

It would be needed if the influence of indoctrinated deception can persuade a person to ignore their innermost companionship with God. Do you agree?

I think it can be good to write things which help people to be attentive to God.

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

I think the Bible has things to warn us about what can keep our attention away from God. The Bible warns about false religion, yes, but also about "cares of this life" and "love of money" and self.

And "There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love." (1 John 4:18)

But does false indoctrination do the most to keep people from God? Well, if people aren't into religion, then no. Possibly, others may be distracted only on Sunday, but not even think about it during the rest of the week.

 

[Gottservant]

The Devil has tricks, better to focus on knowing God.

Thinking about the Devil's tricks can only be worry about humanity, but worrying about humanity achieves nothing.

Undoubtedly, if the Devil knew his own reasons, he would be furious.

 

[God's Child]

 

[God's Child]

This thread has been moved from the Philosophy forum

to the General Theology forum.

It has also undergone a clean up. Please remember

you must be a Christian in order to post here. Thank you.​

Mod Hat Off​

 

[Souldier]

satans greatest trick may be getting people to stop reading their bible. I dont understand this thing that people say about having a relationship with a book. It seems to lack understanding of what Christ and the apostles teach us. Jesus said if you love me you will keep my words. Paul urges us to meditate on the truth of scripture. David searched God with all his heart by examining his own ways and also by meditating on Gods word and hiding it in His heart.


Psalm 119:7 You are my portion, O Lord;
I have said that I would keep Your words.
58 I entreated Your favor with my whole heart;
Be merciful to me according to Your word.
59 I thought about my ways,
And turned my feet to Your testimonies.


Philippians 4:Meditate on These Things
8 Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy—meditate on these things. 9 The things which you learned and received and heard and saw in me, these do, and the God of peace will be with you.



6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

John 14:22 Judas (not Iscariot) said to Him, “Lord, how is it that You will manifest Yourself to us, and not to the world?”

23 Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. 24 He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me.

The Gift of His Peace
25 “These things I have spoken to you while being present with you. 26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you. 27 Peace I leave with you, My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

 

[Souldier]

And when i refer to reading the bible im not talking about reading 10 chapters every night necessarily. I think we need to meditate on the things we read throughout the day and the night. We should take those things that we dont understand and meditate on them, and compare them to other scriptures, and ask God to teach us what it means. It doesn't profit much to read many chapters and forget what we read. Sometimes just reading one verse and meditating on it will help us learn more than if we read 10 chapters and without meditating on it.

A computer is a very valuable study tool. We can do word searches on any particular topic and see many scriptures on that one topic. Holiness for example, if we wanted to understand holiness then we could seek out all New Testament scriptures that refer to the words holy and holiness. We can gain a lot of understanding that way.

 

[BobRyan]

I don't think the Devils greatest trick was getting humans to believe he does not exist. I think Satans best trick was getting people to believe they needed indoctrination when God was nothing but a thought away. People not believing Satan exists would be his second greatest achievement. Strategically speaking, if my goal was to keep people from communicating with a presence that is always with them, I would distract them from that presence. There has been no better distraction from God, than people believing God can be found in a book. That is, if my premise of God being present with everyone were true, because then a book would not be required.

In the first part of your post I agree that the super bad ideas expressed in LATERAN IV and the "extermination of heretics" that results in the inquisition - very bad ideas indeed.

But no need to toss the baby out with the bath water.

So then let us test that theory in the last paragraph.


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

That is a case of Christ demonstrating the way that the magisterium is hammered "sola scriptura" in the cases where it's traditions and "doctrines of men" are at odds with scripture.

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]The elders consisting of scrib[FONT=&quot]es and ph[FONT=&quot]arise[FONT=&quot]es [/FONT]are in fact the "magisterium" even Paul admits to this. And Jesus shows how they claim to "sit in the chair of Moses" as church magisterium[FONT=&quot].[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to his disciples, saying, “The scribes and the Pharisees have taken their seat on the chair of Moses. Therefore, do and observe all things whatsoever they tell you, but do not follow their example. For they preach but they do not practice. (Matthew 23:1-3)[/FONT]


============================

In that example above the theory does not hold up all that well -- since the text is all about worship being made void by certain false doctrines.

And then we have 1Tim 4
[/FONT]
4 But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron,


And 2 Cor 11
3 But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ. 4 For if one comes and preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted, you bear this beautifully.

 

[contratodo]

The devils greatest tricks:

1. The same lie he told Eve - Chappie, Transendence - same lie told in a modern way.
2. Aliens - The great lie yet to fully unfold, it is the one that leads up to the anti-Christ.

The devil is a liar, aliens are the devils lie.
alien = a - lie - (n)

2nd Thess 2:2-11
Revelation 13:6

 

[contratodo]

The Devil has tricks, better to focus on knowing God.

Thinking about the Devil's tricks can only be worry about humanity, but worrying about humanity achieves nothing.

Undoubtedly, if the Devil knew his own reasons, he would be furious.

The devil knows his own reasons.
The devil comes to steal, kill and destroy.

The devil seeks the non-existence of all things except himself.
He will be granted the destruction of every current physical thing -
2nd Peter 3:10-12, Isaiah 65:17, Revelation 21:1
and to forever try to cause those in the lake of fire to give up and choose non-existence.

 

[Bible2]

Pozessed said in post 1:

The Devils Greatest Trick

The devil's greatest trick is to contradict God's Word with something which sounds better to humans, in order to deceive them into rejecting God's will (Genesis 3:1-6, Matthew 16:21-23; 1 Timothy 4:1; 2 Timothy 4:3-4).

This will come to a climax in our future. For Christians need to be aware that during the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18), even though the world will consciously and openly worship Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) and the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) (Revelation 13:4-8, Revelation 12:9), this won't require that the Antichrist's one-world religion will say that Jesus is evil, or will turn the world against Jesus. For almost the entire world reveres Jesus, at least as being a good man. The Antichrist could confirm this basic world belief, but simply (in his words) "clarify" that while Jesus is indeed a good man, he isn't the Christ or the Son of God (1 John 2:22). No doubt the Antichrist will also deny that Jesus died on the Cross for our sins, as this, just as believing that he is the Christ and the Son of God (John 20:31, John 3:36), is one of the core beliefs of the gospel by which people become saved (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

So what the Antichrist could do is keep the idea of a good Jesus, but strip it of everything by which Jesus saves people from hell. And this wouldn't require that the Antichrist deny Jesus' 2nd coming. Indeed, the Antichrist and his False Prophet (Revelation 19:20) could even try to employ to their own ends the Biblical prophecy of Jesus' 2nd coming, as well as the Muslim prophecy which says that the miracle-working prophet Jesus will return bodily from heaven in the last days to bring the whole earth into the worship of the true God. For the False Prophet could claim that he is Jesus returned. And he could perform amazing miracles (Revelation 13:13) as purported proof of his claim (cf. John 3:2). This is one reason why it is important to know when and how the real Jesus' 2nd coming will happen (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Zechariah 14:3-21).

Once the False Prophet by his amazing miracles has brought the world under his spell (Revelation 13:13-18, Revelation 19:20), including many Muslims and Christians who may not care much for scriptural dogma, but could go wild over his signs and wonders, he could begin to (in his words) "restore to the world the real message which was spoken by me (Jesus) at my first coming, and by the great prophet Mohammed, but which message became corrupted by power-hungry men when they copied and changed the early manuscripts of the Bible and the Koran". He could then gradually initiate the world into the Antichrist's Gnostic Luciferianism (1 John 4:3, Revelation 13:4-6), a religion which could have existed since ancient times in some "mystery" cults, and which still exists today in the highest degree of initiation of a worldwide secret society. The False Prophet could present his miraculously calling fire down from heaven (Revelation 13:13) as purported proof that Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) and the Antichrist are the true God (Revelation 13:4-8, Revelation 12:9), in an inversion of how back in Old Testament times, Elijah miraculously called fire down from heaven to prove that YHWH is the true God (1 Kings 18:37-39).

The person whom the Antichrist will revile is YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36), whom many people mistakenly think of as being (in their words) "the God of only the Old Testament, that cruel and hateful God who commanded people to commit genocide and kill babies (1 Samuel 15:3), whereas Jesus came and preached love for everyone (Matthew 5:44)". The truth is that Jesus confirmed that the God of the Old Testament, YHWH (Deuteronomy 6:4-5, Leviticus 19:18), is the same as the God of the New Testament (Mark 12:29-31), and that the Old Testament is true (Matthew 5:17-18, Luke 24:44-48). Jesus died for our sins in fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy from YHWH (Isaiah 53; 1 Peter 2:24). And he rose from the dead in fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy from YHWH (e.g. Psalms 16:10, Acts 2:31). Jesus died to establish the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28), which YHWH had foretold in the Old Testament (Jeremiah 31:31-34). And Jesus died to bring about the defeat of Satan (Hebrews 2:14), which YHWH had foretold from even the first book of the Old Testament (Genesis 3:15).

Nonetheless, building on many people's misconceptions of YHWH as being (in their words) "the cruel God of the Old Testament", no doubt one of the Antichrist's chief blasphemies against YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36) will be that YHWH is an evil god. This is one of the ancient blasphemies of Gnosticism, another being the antichrist lie that Christ isn't in the flesh (2 John 1:7). The world will be deceived into completely rejecting YHWH, and worshipping Satan and the Antichrist instead (Revelation 13:4-8, Revelation 12:9). Satan may be worshipped not as "Satan", which most everyone sees as a bad name (it means "Adversary"), but as "Lucifer" (Isaiah 14:12), which means "the morning star". The Antichrist could falsely say that it is YHWH who is the true "Satan", the true "Adversary" of mankind.

Because the Antichrist and his False Prophet (possibly masquerading as Jesus) will deny that Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22), and will deny that Christ is in the flesh (1 John 4:3), and because they will bring the unsaved world into the worship of Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) instead (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9), they could falsely say that (the non-mortal flesh) Lucifer is the Christ, that the new name of Christ (Revelation 3:12c) is "Lucifer Christ". For just as "Lucifer" means "the morning star", so Christ is the morning star (Revelation 22:16b). Also, Christ identified himself with the serpent (John 3:14), and Lucifer is the serpent (Revelation 12:9). Also, Christ said "Ye are gods" (John 10:34), and it was the serpent who said "ye shall be as gods" (Genesis 3:5).

But the truth is that Lucifer fell from his office of morning star (Isaiah 14:12) and became Satan (cf. Luke 10:18). Jesus Christ has taken over the office of morning star (Revelation 22:16). And Jesus Christ identified himself with only the brass serpent on the pole in Numbers 21:8-9 (John 3:14), which typified Jesus Christ's crucifixion for our sins (John 19:16, Matthew 26:28). And in John 10:34, Jesus Christ (John 20:31) was quoting YHWH in Psalms 82:6-7, which shows that even though humans have knowledge of good and evil as gods do (Genesis 3:22), they will still die like humans (Psalms 82:7), contradicting the serpent's lie (Genesis 3:4). Nonetheless, the Antichrist could falsely say that Lucifer is the Christ and the true and beneficent God of mankind, and that the False Prophet is the miracle-working prophet Jesus (cf. John 3:2, Acts 3:22-24), returned to point the world to the true Christ/God. The Antichrist could falsely say he (the Antichrist) is the human/divine "Son" of Lucifer, who must be worshipped as God along with Lucifer (Revelation 13:4,8). This would be similar to how Biblical Christians rightly worship the human/divine Jesus Christ (John 1:1,14) as YHWH God (the Son) along with YHWH God the Father (John 20:28, Hebrews 1:8).

Near the end of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, unclean spirits like frogs will come out of the mouths of Lucifer, the Antichrist, and the False Prophet (Revelation 16:13). And these unclean spirits like frogs will go forth and perform amazing miracles to convince the world's armies to gather together at Armageddon (Har Megiddo: Mount Megiddo in northern Israel) (Revelation 16:16) in an attempt to fight and defeat YHWH himself (Revelation 16:14, Revelation 19:19). After gathering together at Armageddon, the armies will travel south and pillage Jerusalem, right before the real Jesus (who is YHWH: John 10:30) returns from heaven and defeats them completely (Zechariah 14:2-21, Revelation 19:20 to 20:3).

Pozessed said in post 1:

I think Satans best trick was getting people to believe they needed indoctrination when God was nothing but a thought away.

Christian faith mustn't be based solely on heart feelings, which can be very deceptive (Jeremiah 17:9, Proverbs 28:26, Proverbs 14:12), but must be also a rational/intellectual enterprise. For saving faith requires mental assent (Philippians 3:15-16, Romans 12:2; 2 Corinthians 4:4; 2 Timothy 2:25, Romans 8:6) to correct (i.e. Biblical) doctrine (2 Timothy 3:16 to 4:4; 1 Timothy 4:16; 2 John 1:9-10; 1 Timothy 6:3, Titus 1:9) and continuing to remember that doctrine (1 Corinthians 15:2; 2 Peter 3:1-2; 2 Corinthians 11:3).

For example, in order for people to be saved, they must believe (and continue to believe to the end: Hebrews 3:6,12,14, Colossians 1:23; 1 Corinthians 15:2) the correct doctrine that Jesus of Nazareth is the Christ and the human/divine Son of God (John 20:31, John 3:36, 1 John 2:23), and that he died on the Cross for our sins and physically resurrected from the dead on the 3rd day (1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Luke 24:39,46,47, Matthew 20:19, Matthew 26:28).

--

Pozessed said in post 5:

I don't think it matters to the creator whether or not people believe in the creators existence.

Actually, it does matter to him (Hebrews 11:6).

Pozessed said in post 5:

Why else would there be so much controversy over how/why/if a divine creator exists?

People can know God exists by seeing everything else that exists (Romans 1:20, Psalms 19:1-4). The universe couldn't have created itself from nothing by physics, because of the 1st law of thermodynamics. So something outside of physics had to have created the universe. The term spirit is used to refer to that which exists but is outside of physics. So what created the universe was a spirit (John 4:24, John 1:3). And this has to be an uncreated spirit, because nothing, not even a spirit, can create itself from nothing, for in order to create itself, it would have to already exist. So just by being able to see the universe, people have no excuse for denying the existence of an uncreated spirit, also known as God (Romans 1:20, John 4:24, Psalms 19:1-4). And God must have eternal power (Romans 1:20), because the 1st law of thermodynamics requires that the energy in the universe is eternal.

Because knowing that God exists is the only reasonable response to seeing the existence of the universe (Romans 1:20), when educated and intelligent people refuse to admit God exists, this is only because they are intentionally choosing to be unreasonable, choosing to be foolish, regarding God's existence, because of their human pride, their unthankfulness to God, and their desire to continue in sinful actions (Romans 1:21-22, Psalms 14:1). But there is no salvation in simply believing God exists (James 2:19). Believing in Jesus Christ, the human/divine Son of God, and his sacrifice on the Cross for our sins, and his rising physically from the dead on the 3rd day, is the only way for people to have their sins forgiven so they can avoid having to go to hell when they die (John 3:16,36, Romans 3:25; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

--

Pozessed said in post 7:

How do you know Christs story isn't one of many indoctrinations influenced by Satan to divide and conquer people.

God has purposely made it so that there is no way to scientifically prove that the gospel of Christ is true (1 Corinthians 1:18 to 2:16). Yet Biblical Christians nonetheless (rightly) believe that the gospel is true, just as they (rightly) believe that the ancient Biblical manuscripts which we have match the original manuscripts in doctrine, and that all this doctrine is God's Word (2 Timothy 3:15 to 4:4, John 8:31). For Biblical Christians have been granted God's miraculous gift of Christian faith (Ephesians 2:8, John 6:65; 1 Corinthians 3:5b) and some measure of God's Spirit (1 Corinthians 2:11-16). And so they are able to spiritually recognize if something is said by God (John 10:4,27; 1 Corinthians 14:37), or only by some "stranger" (John 10:5).

And Biblical Christians know the Bible is God's Word not only because of the spiritual evidence of faith (Hebrews 11:1), but also because Jesus confirms that the entire Old Testament is true (Matthew 5:17-18, Luke 24:44-48). And the entire New Testament was written by eyewitnesses of Jesus (2 Peter 1:16; 1 John 1:1-4; 1 Corinthians 9:1, John 19:35, John 21:24; 1 Peter 5:1, Luke 24:48, Revelation 1:17-19), or their immediate followers (Luke 1:1-2, Hebrews 2:3). And Jesus' New Testament death for our sins and his resurrection from the dead (1 Corinthians 15:3-4) fulfilled Old Testament prophecy (Acts 26:22-23, Isaiah 53, Psalms 16:10, Acts 2:31). Also, no doctrine in the Bible has ever been proven false, so there is no reason for any Christian to reject any doctrine taught by the Bible.

It is the Bible which is able to make people wise unto salvation through faith which is in Jesus Christ (2 Timothy 3:15; 1 Peter 1:23-25, Romans 10:17, Acts 13:48, James 1:18). All the Bible's teachings were given by the inspiration of God, and so they are all true and God's Word (2 Timothy 3:16 to 4:4). Jesus says: "If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed" (John 8:31). Christians must be willing to die before they would deny any part of his Word (Mark 8:35-38). One of Satan's prime aims is to get people to reject all or parts of God's Word and start believing something else which sounds better to them as humans (Genesis 3:1-6, Matthew 16:21-23; 1 Timothy 4:1; 2 Timothy 4:3-4), but which can't save their souls, so that they will end up suffering in fire and brimstone with Satan and his fallen angels forever (Matthew 25:41,46, Revelation 20:10,15, Revelation 14:10-11).

 

[Bible2]

OldWiseGuy said in post 6:

Jesus humbled himself only to his Father, not to men.

To both (John 13:4-14).