The 'Demon Dilemma'.

[he-man]

The question is: do these terms exist in the Bible and do they offer that the entity known as Satan EXISTS and that there are 'evil spirits' that do his bidding?

And the great dragon was cast out,.... From heaven, or from power and authority in the Roman empire, namely, the devil, where he had long presided; it is observable that Constantine himself speaks of "the dragon" being removed from the government of the commonwealth by the providence of God, and by the ministry, or means of him (m); and he had his own effigies on a table placed before the porch of his palace, with the cross over his head, and a dragon under his feet thrust through with darts, and falling headlong (n);[GILL]
The simple answer is that the whole book of Revelations is symbolic and written to hide the real identity of the Anti-Christ, symbolic of the Roman Empire, and the scribes and false teachers who have kept the word of God secret until it was revealed as meaning the Empires of the world today. The USA, Syria, Iran, Persia, Russia. All are the owners of the title Old Serpent, devil, satan, which simply means they are now and will be opposing the plans of God in the near future at Armageddon (from Ancient Greek: αρμαγεδων, Harmagedon, Late Latin: Armagedon) will be, according to the Book of Revelation, the site of gathering of all the armies of the world for a battle against Christ during the end times,

While the original Greek used in translation used NO distinction between capital and small letters, English DOES and when translating the YLT from Greek to English, even those translators used a CAPITAL letter in English when referring to the Devil.

How does that make your or their assumptions any different or correct? We are using the Bible for an explanation not what translators said.. Why did those translators ignore the MAN in which YLT called the enemy if it did not refer to the scribes and leaders in the church except for YLT ?
Mat 13:28 And he saith to them, A MAN, an enemy, did this; and the servants said to him, Wilt thou, then, that having gone away we may gather it up?

the overwhelming majority would openly admit to the recognition of Satan as an ENTITY, a FALLEN angel

.

What verse do you think that qualifies you to use that assumption? Do you know what future tense means? Rev 12:7 "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels," because John says: Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass;

YES. Satan is an entity. And YES, there ARE indeed 'evil spirits', DEMONS that do the bidding of their master: Satan.

Do you believe in Witches and do you think they should be burned at the stake?
Devil — the Greek, for "accuser," or "slanderer."
Satan — the Hebrew for "adversary," especially in a court of justice. The twofold designation, Greek and Hebrew, marks the twofold objects of his accusations and temptations, the elect Gentiles and the elect Jews.

So it would SEEM that the principle is present in almost ALL 'religions' that have ever existed that we could make such determinations. Babylonians recognized both GOOD and EVIL entities as 'gods'.

Yes, and that would be an overly polythestic belief, and would violate the command "That there is One God and Him only shall you recognize."
And the great dragon was cast out,.... From heaven, or from power and authority in the Roman empire, namely, the devil, where he had long presided; it is observable that Constantine himself speaks of "the dragon" being removed from the government of the commonwealth by the providence of God, and by the ministry, or means of him (m); and he had his own effigies on a table placed before the porch of his palace, with the cross over his head, and a dragon under his feet thrust through with darts, and falling headlong (n); [GILL]
Mat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

And I have often wondered: "Can one TRULY believe in God without believing that the Devil EXISTS?I did notice that instead of Satan, the YLT uses the word 'adversary'.

And it is capitalized as in a PROPER noun. A NAME for the adversary.

When there is more than one possible way of dividing the words in a sentence or paragraph, or when there is more than one possible set of punctuation, we must look for clues as to what the author intended in order to correctly determine which is the correct division and what punctuation the author would have used if it had been available. Πιψτθρε λινκ http://greek-language.com/grklinguist/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Philippians1_1-2.
The image is from Codex Sinaiticus, Philippians 1:1-2
Notice in addition to the lack of punctuation and spacing, the regular use of abbreviations for the words God (ΘΕΟΥ =ΘΥ), Lord (ΚΥΡΙΟΥ = ΚΥ), Jesus (ΙΗΣΟΥ = ΙΥ), and Christ (ΧΡΙΣΤΟΥ = ΧΥ). In Codex Sinaiticus as in all of the early manuscripts, such abbreviations are marked by a macron (  ) over the letters. http://greek-language.com/grklinguist/?p=667

That God has been unable to preserve His Word: the truth, for two thousand years until YOU were born and learned how to translate Greek into English. And I personally believe that any and everyone following this discussion would agree.

Devil — the Greek, for "accuser," or "slanderer."
Satan — the Hebrew for "adversary," especially in a court of justice. The twofold designation, Greek and Hebrew, marks the twofold objects of his accusations and temptations, the elect Gentiles and the elect Jews.[JFB]
Mat 13:28 And he saith to them, A MAN, an enemy, did this; and the servants said to him, Wilt thou, then, that having gone away we may gather them up?
.
　

 

[Imagican]

Once again, it is clear that what you offer is from YOUR own created THEOLOGY. It does not FIT what we are offered in the Bible. I have shown over and over that it cannot be but ONE way in order to be the TRUTH. And your way doesn't FIT. I have shown over and over that YOUR idea of Satan being nothing other than 'adversary' does not FIT. Satan is the NAME of an ENEMY. Not an ALL contained SYMBOLIC word for 'adversary'.

And I have already pointed out and POSTED scripture from the YLT that USES the word DEMON. Scripture from THAT version of the Bible that practically EXACTLY mirrors the KJV in what it offers concerning Christ CASTING OUT demons. If DEMONS exist, then so TOO does THE Devil: Satan.

And for someone that is as ANTI Catholic Church as I have perceived YOU to be, how do you come to the conclusion that ANYTHING was 'defeated' by the 'creation' of the Catholic Church. If ANYTHING was defeated by the Catholic Church it was the TRUTH. They certainly didn't in any manner of REASON, defeat EVIL or Satan or The Devil or that 'great dragon'. If anything, they became a PART of that 'entity' in UNDERSTANDING and practice.

You flip flop in ways that are hard to fathom. You openly profess to recognize how 'twisted' the RCC's dogma and doctrine are and then try to indicate that Constantine was responsible for 'defeating' that 'old serpent' or 'great dragon'. A PAGAN emperor responsible for the DEFEAT of 'evil'? You really ARE joking, right? You're REALLY 'playing with me' and don't REALLY believe any of that which you are offering?

I don't believe the translators of the Bible I read ignored ANYTHING. I believe that the translators of the YLT 'made up' stuff that isn't REALLY there in the original manuscripts. They have ALTERED the translation to FIT what they want to BELIEVE. So there's a big difference in translators IGNORING what is offered in TRUTH and MAKING up what one WANTS to believe and then using THAT influence to translate a NEW addition of the Bible.

And once again, to listen to YOU, YOU are MORE capable of correctly interpreting and translating the Greek manuscripts than 47 scholars that spent seven years of their lives doing so. I have NO idea what YOUR competence in the language is. Nor do I have ANY idea of your inspiration. But these men were PROFESSORS of theology at Universities that spoke FLUENT Greek, understood EVERYTHING ABOUT it, BEFORE being commissioned to translate the manuscripts from Greek to English. Common sense would DICTATE that 47 men who debated the issues would have a much BETTER chance of discerning the TRUTH than ONE man ON HIS OWN. I am not a big follower of the concept of NUMBERS being the indication of the TRUTH. But in this case, I would say, without any hesitation, I would place MY trust in a GROUP of men rather than ONE. Especially KNOWING that the GROUP were ALL fluent in Greek AND English. They were TEACHERS of these languages.

So, IF we agree that God IS capable of inspiring men to PROPER understanding, and that is EXACTLY what these men STATED. That their effort was NOT for 'gain' or any other reason than to DO THEIR BEST to translate the manuscripts from Greek to English, what reason do I have to DISBELIEVE them. I have found absolutely NO evidence that their agenda was anything BUT to fulfill their commission: 'create an UNBIASED Bible for ALL people. To translate from Greek to English those manuscripts that THEY believed were the CLOSEST to the original as existed. And then at the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls, it is now PROVEN that most parts when compared are closer to the KJV translation than ANY other, well, that's just ICING on the cake. For it is clear that the Dead Sea Scrolls are MUCH older than any of the previous manuscripts used in the translation. To find that they basically MATCH is evidence enough for ME.

Yet even that which was found in the Dead Sea Scrolls is contrary to what YOU offer. As a matter of FACT, those that profess to be UR are the ONLY one's other than YOURSELF that I have ever encountered that INSIST that Satan is nothing other than ADVERSARY. YOU and those of UR are the ONLY people I have ever encountered that CLAIM to be followers of Christ but DENY the existence of THE Devil and his demons.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[he-man]

Satan is the NAME of an ENEMY. Not an ALL contained SYMBOLIC word for 'adversary'.

Answer me first, Do you believe in Witches and do you think they should still be burned at the stake?
Mat 13:28 And he saith to them, A MAN, an enemy, did this; and the servants said to him, Wilt thou, then, that having gone away we may gather them up?

I have already pointed out and POSTED scripture from the YLT that USES the word DEMON. Scripture from THAT version of the Bible that practically EXACTLY mirrors the KJV in what it offers concerning Christ CASTING OUT demons. If DEMONS exist, then so TOO does THE Devil: Satan.

If you don’t like YLT then try the TYNDALE Bible:
Mk 5:15 And they came out to Jesus, and they saw him that was vexed with the fiend and had the legion sit, both clothed and in his right mind, and were afraid.
Lk 8:29 Then he commanded the foul spirit to come out of the man. For often times it caught him, and he was bound with chains, and kept with fetters: and he brake the bonds, and was carried of the fiend, into wilderness
9:42 As he yet was a coming, the fiend rent him, and tare him. Jesus rebuked the unclean spirit, and healed the child, and delivered him to his father. THE NEW TESTAMENT W TYNDALE Bible

And for someone that is as ANTI Catholic Church as I have perceived YOU to be, how do you come to the conclusion that ANYTHING

It seems an awfully weak way to defeat such an opponent and Supernatural being by simply dying and if the last enemy is death then where does that leave your Fallen Angel?.I thought you said he has existed from the beginning and that would mean he had to be immortal? But Luke says we are to be equal to the Angels and can die no more. If Angels cannot die where does that leave your perpetual Fallen Angel?

Luk 20:36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death Matthew 13:47 "Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a dragnet that was cast into the sea and gathered some of every kind, 48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, 51 Jesus saith unto them, Have ye understood all these things? They say unto him, Yea, Lord

I don't believe the translators of the Bible I read ignored ANYTHING. I believe that the translators of the YLT 'made up' stuff that isn't REALLY there in the original manuscripts..

Funny, but if you could read Greek you would have already seen it in the Manuscript.Mat 13:28 ο δε εφη αυτοις εχθρος ανθρωπος τουτο εποιησεν οι δε δουλοι λεγουσιν αυτω θελεις ουν απελθοντες συλλεξωμεν αυτα
http://www.codex-sinaiticus.net/en/manuscript.aspx?=Submit Query&book=33&chapter=13&lid=en&side=r&verse=28&zoomSlider=0

But in this case, I would say, without any hesitation, I would place MY trust in a GROUP of men rather than ONE. Especially KNOWING that the GROUP were ALL fluent in Greek AND English. They were TEACHERS of these languages.

I would put my trust in one man, Jesus Christ, and then follow what he says and not what the men who are saturated with the thoughts of this world. Mar 7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. 7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

So, IF we agree that God IS capable of inspiring men to PROPER understanding, and that is EXACTLY what these men STATED. That their effort was NOT for 'gain' or any other reason than to DO THEIR BEST to translate the manuscripts from Greek to English, what reason do I have to DISBELIEVE them.

The Dead Sea Scrolls does not match what the Bible teaches but were written buy a group not associated with Christianity. Over the years questions have been \fs24softlineraised about the scrolls' authenticity, about the people who hid them away during the period in which they lived, about the secrets the scrolls might reveal, and about the intentions of the scrolls' custodians in restricting access. The Library's exhibition describes the historical context of the scrolls and the Qumran community from whence they may have originated in the wilderness retreat of the Essenes, a separatist Jewish sect of the Second Temple Period, a portion of whom had formed an ascetic monastic community founded in the second half of the second century B.C.E., during the time of the Maccabees . trans2.html http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/scrolls/late.html#obj3

Y et even that which was found in the Dead Sea Scrolls is contrary to what YOU offer to be followers of Christ but DENY the existence of THE Devil and his demons.

Ever hear of Sir Isaac Newton? Is the Dragon emblematic of both pagan Rome and the devil who uses the empire as his instrument to oppress and corrupt the Church, or does the Dragon refer univocally to Rome and hence not at all to a supernatural fallen angel? The first reference to a serpent in the Bible is found in the account of the first human sin committed in the Garden of Eden, and it is to this account that Newton turns when tracing the origin of the serpentine imagery of the "spirit of error."
Newton saw the serpent that tempted Eve to eat the fruit of the Tree of the
Knowledge of Good and Evil as symbolic of the fleshly lust for her husband
that filled her heart. The spirits of God of fals Prophets & of Antichrist are [in 1 John 4] plainly taken not for any substantial Spirits but for ye good or evil dispositions & true or fals perswasions of mens minds; & the spirits of all men who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is called in the singular number the spirit of Antichrist, & said to be come into the world as if it were an evil spirit wch was to reign therein & deceive all the followers of Antichrist. And such an evil spirit is the Dragon in the Apocalyps.

Thus, the Dragon of Revelation is a spirit of deception, not a spirit being. 16 Newton, Keynes MS 5, fol. 48r. Similarly, Newton identifies Lucifer in the prophetic dirge of Isaiah 14, another helpful litmus test for belief in the devil, not as Satan, or as Satan working through the King of Babylon, but simply as the King of Babylon (Newton, Keynes MS 5, fol. 98r.)This Dragon being the old serpent called the Devil & Satan, is that who hath his seat in Pergamus, that is the Greek empire in the reign of the last horn of Daniel’s He Goat.. straightforwardly as "the heathen Roman Empire in respect to its religion.
13 Newton, Yahuda MS 1.2, fol. 11r.
14 Newton, Yahuda MS 10.2, fol. 15v.

 

[Colter]

If Satan wasn't a real being then it's the writings of the Bible books that have lead (or mislead) people to believe that he was, not a general ignorance of the hidden, parabolic intent not aparent to a common reading, perpetuated by every author of scripture. 66 books that say something other than what they meant? That's rich!

 

[Imagican]

Thank you Colter. Where he-man has found HIS particular 'religion' is beyond me. And it's not JUST 'Christianity'. Just about EVERY 'religion' that has EVER existed has recognized the existence of 'evil spirits'. Heck, there are some religions that have ended up WORSHIPING 'evil spirits' in order to appease them. Worried that if they do NOTHING to appease them that they will end up suffering from their influence.

But the Bible explains the actual ENTITY of Satan in some pretty minute detail. Not only that he is an ENTITY, but an entity that basically has dominion over this 'world'.

And the Bible is CLEAR about Christ 'casting out demons'. And it is SPECIFIC in noting the difference between physical or mental AILMENTS and 'demons'.

He man, other than some I have encountered that are UR, is the ONLY person I have ever encountered that claims to be 'Christian' that DOESN'T understand the existence of Satan and his 'fallen angels': demons.

But I appreciate your candor and placing the TRUTH in perspective.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Imagican]

Newton THOUGHT he was CHOSEN to unlock the secrets of 'Revelation'. All this shows is his UTTER confusion about certain aspects that he was UNABLE to accept within 'reason'. He began to THINK that because of his accomplishments that he was someone 'overly special' when it came to ALL that he endeavored. But the truth is that he often stumbled way beyond one's normal capacity due to his own conceit.

I will offer this: the ONLY means that one is capable of denial of Satan and his demons is to REFUSE to accept what is offered in the scriptures. As you have tried to insist over and over: the Bible is FLAWED in every MENTION of Satan or demons. That leads ME to believe that you simply don't BELIEVE in the Bible. For if you are forced to CHANGE every mention of Satan in YOUR interpretation of the Bible, you believe in a DIFFERENT Bible.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[he-man]

Newton THOUGHT he was CHOSEN to unlock the secrets of 'Revelation'.He man, other than some I have encountered that are UR, is the ONLY person I have ever encountered that claims to be 'Christian' that DOESN'T understand the existence of Satan and his 'fallen angels': demons.

Dan 4:22 It is thou, O king, that art grown and become strong: for thy greatness is grown, and reacheth unto heaven, and thy dominion to the end of the earth. Dan 4:25 ...
the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will.
I thought you said satan already had dominion over the earth? Do you see the word demon, devil. satan here> Revelation 6:8 So I looked, and behold, a pale horse. And the name of him who sat on it was Death, and Hades followed with him. And power was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword, with hunger, with death, and by the beasts of the earth.
Job 38:33 Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth? 41 Who provideth for the raven his food? when his young ones cry unto God, they wander for lack of meat.

Newton laid the blame for the rise of the pagan doctrines about demons in the Church at the door of his ecclesiastical nemesis Athanasius, whom he also saw as responsible for introducing Trinitarianism Paradoxical questions concerning Athanasius
According to most scholars, Newton was a monotheist who believed in biblical prophecies but was Antitrinitarian. In Newton's eyes, worshipping Christ as God was idolatry, to him the fundamental sin. (British Journal for the History of Science) (Avery Cardinal Dulles. The Deist Minimum. January 2005)

 

[Imagican]

Dan 4:22 It is thou, O king, that art grown and become strong: for thy greatness is grown, and reacheth unto heaven, and thy dominion to the end of the earth. Dan 4:25 ...
the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will.

And the words above plainly illustrate exactly what I have offered. God has GIVEN dominion of this planet TO Satan. For you see, God loved Satan. Satan wanted to be GOD. So, for a time, God is going to ALLOW Satan to influence men to worship him AS God.

It's pretty simple really. If Satan was defeated in heaven, it is my firm belief that God could have destroyed him THEN. But He didn't. He cast Satan down to this earth and has given him dominion over this earth until it's time for Christ to defeat him.

And there is only ONE reason that I can fathom that God didn't DESTROY Satan: LOVE. Even though Satan rebelled against Him, He still loved Satan.

Isn't it OBVIOUS that there must be some REASON that Satan WASN'T destroyed?

I thought you said satan already had dominion over the earth? Do you see the word demon, devil. satan here> Revelation 6:8 So I looked, and behold, a pale horse. And the name of him who sat on it was Death, and Hades followed with him. And power was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword, with hunger, with death, and by the beasts of the earth.
Job 38:33 Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth? 41 Who provideth for the raven his food? when his young ones cry unto God, they wander for lack of meat.

Newton laid the blame for the rise of the pagan doctrines about demons in the Church at the door of his ecclesiastical nemesis Athanasius, whom he also saw as responsible for introducing Trinitarianism Paradoxical questions concerning Athanasius
According to most scholars, Newton was a monotheist who believed in biblical prophecies but was Antitrinitarian. In Newton's eyes, worshipping Christ as God was idolatry, to him the fundamental sin. (British Journal for the History of Science) (Avery Cardinal Dulles. The Deist Minimum. January 2005)

And like Martin Luther, Newton was a visionary of extraordinary talent. But that doesn't mean he was incapable of making mistakes. I am in utter agreement with his deduction that 'trinity' created a 'false Christ' or 'Christ of man's design'.

But Newton also thought that he was the KEY to unlock the mystery of Revelation and that didn't work out so well. So it is my belief that he began to believe in HIMSELF more than God and that led to much 'false understanding' so far as the Bible is concerned. His misunderstanding of Satan and demons is but ONE of the areas in which he faltered.

And isn't it like this with MOST men? They can see SOME but not ALL. They are often gifted with GREAT revelation and then are still capable of being LED ASTRAY. For any that would argue the point, I offer King David as a PRIME example. A man after God's own heart that STILL made monumental MISTAKES. Adultery, murder, disobedience.

So let's assume that Newton was JUST as capable of being led astray as David was. While David's weakness was obviously a WOMAN, perhaps Newton's weakness was SCIENCE. Believing he was capable of answering ALL things and this VICE led to his misunderstanding of Satan and demons. For when we study the man: Newton, we find a man that was BENT on 'FACTS'. Science. Literal TRUTH as it concerned the PHYSICAL world. And when he stuck to this area he was ONE OF A KIND. But Satan and demons are of a SPIRITUAL nature and not PHYSICAL. And of all that I have read concerning Newton, he faltered miserably when it came to that which is SPIRITUAL.

But regardless of what Newton THOUGHT, the Bible tells a completely DIFFERENT story than the one you would propose. You QUOTE the parts of the Bible that you can use to defend your point but then treat the rest like it's totally in error.

Why is that he man? Why are the parts that you agree with RIGHT and the parts you don't WRONG? What LED you to the conclusion that EVERYTHING offered in the Bible concerning SATAN are WRONG but also led you to believe that most of the REST of the Bible is RIGHT?

For you see, to someone like ME, you conclusions are ridiculous. Either the Bible is correct or it's NOT. You have chosen to pick and choose the parts that YOU have chosen to believe as RIGHT and then pick and choose the parts that YOU have chosen to believe are WRONG.

And that perspective to me is no different than YOU deciding that YOU could re translate the Bible BETTER than anyone else. And to ME, you couldn't offer anything MORE ridiculous. Especially when what you have offered, I KNOW is incorrect. Not only do I have the Bible as the evidence of MY understanding. I have my PERSONAL experience that nothing you can offer can alter. I KNOW what I KNOW. I know what I have experienced. And nothing you can say can alter that. So if what you have to offer completely contradicts what I have PERSONALLY experienced, I KNOW you are WRONG.

It would be like this: You are a prosecutor and you are prosecuting someone for murder. You have all your evidence and you 'story' complete. And you deliver it to the jury perfectly. But I'm sitting in the courtroom listening and KNOW you are WRONG because the person you are attempting to convict DIDN'T commit the murder, I DID. So no matter how convincing you may come across to the jury, you cannot convince ME because I KNOW you are WRONG. I am the one that committed the crime and YOU are attempting to convict the WRONG person.

And that is where 'you and I' are at in this conversation. I KNOW you are wrong. Not ONLY does the Bible contradict what you offer, (or YOU contradict what the Bible offers), but what you offer contradicts what I PERSONALLY know from PERSONAL experience.

And the most important part of this dilemma is this: HOW could I KNOW what I KNOW yet you DON'T? How can something be SO CLEAR to me yet you deny it's very existence?

So the conclusion is this: ONE of us is completely VOID of the TRUTH concerning this issue. I offer that I KNOW what I KNOW through the Bible and personal experience and direct conviction through the Holy Spirit. I am not GUESSING whether Satan exists or demons, I KNOW they do.

Now, I HAVE offered much speculation in this thread. I BELIEVE most of it is utterly accurate. But I won't even TRY to convince anyone that I may haven't overstepped my COMPLETE understanding and offered speculation based on the evidence.

But it is my opinion that YOU have COMPLETELY erred in respect to the topic. For me to accept what you offer would be to take the stance that ALMOST EVERY believer since the time of Moses has been completely CONFUSED about this issue. And that YOU and the handful of people that believe as you do have FINALLY figured it out five thousand years later. You offerings remind me of the modern 'tongues' movement. 1900 years of NO tongues and all of a sudden, in the past 100 years, the Holy Spirit has led men to speak in gibberish that they call 'tongues'????? come now.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[he-man]

But it is my opinion that YOU have COMPLETELY erred in respect to the topic. For me to accept what you offer would be to take the stance that ALMOST EVERY believer since the time of Moses has been completely CONFUSED about this issue. Blessings, MEC

Here is a little tip for you: The pagan gods were still remembered under a new form or regarded as demons. Sometimes they were transformed into angels and saints to whom man still prayed. https://www.questia.com/read/14625372/origin-and-evolution-of-religion

2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for the adversary itself is transformed into an angel of light.

2Ki_23:24 Moreover the necromancer (ventriloquist, as from a jar), and the wizards, and the images, and the idols, and all the abominations that were spied in the land of Judah and in Jerusalem, did Josiah put away, that he might perform the words of the law which were written in the book that Hilkiah the priest found in the house of the LORD.

 

[Imagican]

Amusing that you would offer such a quote.

You say that the Bible is WRONG about it's interpretation of Satan and demons, but you don't hesitate to offer quotes that you can use to try and promote your agenda.

But let's see what this quote offers.

2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for the adversary itself is transformed into an angel of light.

By what or WHO is the 'adversary' transformed into an angel of light?

I have a pretty good feeling what you would offer. But what does the scripture ITSELF offer?

ITSELF. It is by the adversary ITSELF that it is transformed into an 'angel of light'.

Satanist BELIEVE that Satan is 'the light bringer' or 'light bearer'. It is not in reference to literal LIGHT, but enLIGHTenment. They believe that God held back knowledge in order to control mankind and that Satan has offered it freely in order to allow man to control his own destiny.

It would be amusing to hear you and a Satanist discuss this issue of 'Satan doesn't exist'. They would probably confront you with the same issue that I have: HOW do you profess to BELIEVE in God and His Son according to the Bible but REFUSE to acknowledge the existence of Satan?

It is funny how you profess to believe that the Bible is WRONG about everything it offers concerning Satan and demons. Yet offer quotes when those quotes AGREE with what you have chosen to follow.

How is it that you discern what is RIGHT and what is WRONG according to what is offered in the Bible? Dice, Cards, magic powder?

Blessings,

MEC

 

[he-man]

Amusing that you would offer such a quote.

The pagan gods were still remembered under a new form or regarded as demons. Sometimes they were transformed into angels and saints to whom man still prayed.

https://www.questia.com/read/14625372/origin-and-evolution-of-religion
2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for the adversary itself is transformed into an angel of light.
2Ki_23:24 Moreover the necromancer (ventriloquist, as from a jar), and the wizards, and the images, and the idols, and all the abominations that were spied in the land of Judah and in Jerusalem, did Josiah put away, that he might perform the words of the law which were written in the book that Hilkiah the priest found in the house of the LORD.

You say that the Bible is WRONG about it's interpretation of Satan and demons,

By what or WHO is the 'adversary' transformed into an angel of light?

Titus 1:14 not giving heed to Jewish fables and commandments of men who turn from the truth. (15) To the pure all things are pure, but to those who are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure; but even their mind and conscience are defiled. (16) They profess to know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable, disobedient, and disqualified for every good work.

WHO is the 'adversary' ? Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet .. with which they deceived them..

HOW do you profess to BELIEVE in God and His Son according to the Bible but REFUSE to acknowledge the existence of Satan?

How is it that you discern what is RIGHT and what is WRONG according to what is offered in the Bible? Dice, Cards, magic powder?

Eph 4:14 That we be no more children, tossed by the sea, and carried about with every wind of instruction, by the game of dice​

1 of men, and intelligence, whereby they​

lie in wait to the pursuit of knowledge2;

1 * Greek κυβεια the game of dice​

2 * Greek μεθοδείαν ‘pursuit of knowledge’
1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to imposters of spirits and teaching of a daemonic being;

 

[he-man]

Amusing that you would offer such a quote.

The pagan gods were still remembered under a new form or regarded as demons. Sometimes they were transformed into angels and saints to whom man still prayed.

https://www.questia.com/read/14625372/origin-and-evolution-of-religion
2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for the adversary itself is transformed into an angel of light.
2Ki_23:24 Moreover the necromancer (ventriloquist, as from a jar), and the wizards, and the images, and the idols, and all the abominations that were spied in the land of Judah and in Jerusalem, did Josiah put away, that he might perform the words of the law which were written in the book that Hilkiah the priest found in the house of the LORD.

You say that the Bible is WRONG about it's interpretation of Satan and demons, By what or WHO is the 'adversary' transformed into an angel of light?

Titus 1:14 not giving heed to Jewish fables and commandments of men who turn from the truth. (15) To the pure all things are pure, but to those who are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure; but even their mind and conscience are defiled. (16) They profess to know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable, disobedient, and disqualified for every good work.

WHO is the 'adversary' ? Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet .. with which they deceived them..

HOW do you profess to BELIEVE in God and His Son according to the Bible but REFUSE to acknowledge the existence of Satan? How is it that you discern what is RIGHT and what is WRONG according to what is offered in the Bible? Dice, Cards, magic powder?

Eph 4:14 That we be no more children, tossed by the sea, and carried about with every wind of instruction, by the game of dice of men, and intelligence, whereby they
lie in wait to the pursuit of knowledge;
1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to imposters of spirits and teaching of a daemonic being;

 

[muddleglum]

Over the years, I have discussed the existence of demons and their ability to influence men, and in MOST cases, even those professing to BELIEVE in the Bible offer more DENIAL than agreement. WHY?

(I'll be using demons as shorthand for "unclean spirits")

I don't know the people you are talking to, but in most cases I know of, it usually doesn't matter that much. Reread what Acts and the various epistles say about demons in Christians. Now check up on being tempted by your own desires.

If you abide IN Christ, what demon will abide there with you? If Christ abides in you, what do the demons do?

I think what you are seeing is this:

Say in a country with a number of mature Christians there are also a lot of demons hanging out and possession is common. Now, say that whenever someone is demon possessed they get a bright purple '666' across their forehead and scream, "the king is a fink". (I'm laughing at my model, btw). The people see that the Christians don't have a problem with possession and, if they request deliverance from them, trusting that their God will save them, they will be delivered. From there it is a very short step to realizing that the "cure" is permanent in Christ.

How long do you think it would be before the greatest percentage of people become Christian?

From the demons' point of view it would be better if they cooled it a bit. Insipid wine is better than thirst. So they head for cover and spend most of their time lying, not in full-blown possession. They are still there, they are still dangerous but, who cares?

Outside the church people worship their own flesh with sacrifices of BLT sandwiches and heroin, among others. Arrogance is rife, depression is common, and small cases of possession aren't noticed in the general angst. Pretty good system there.

And the babies in a church argue about the color of paint in the auditorium while the demons laugh and whisper encouragement... and discouragement. The mature Christians end up busy putting out small fires started by simple lies and important teaching is lost in the crowd. It's a good system there, too.

Wait! Is this becoming familiar?

Whatever, that is my take on it. Abide in Christ and follow His Spirit.

 

[Imagican]

muddleglum,

You've got it. In order to KNOW that one is FREE from demons, they MUST 'abide IN Christ'. That doesn't mean running around telling everyone that they BELIEVE in Christ. To abide IN Christ means to be a FOLLOWER of Christ, not just using His NAME.

"Resist the Devil and he will flee". But what happens when we DON'T resist? Obviously he doesn't FLEE.

I find it amusing that at the EXACT moment that modern media was invented, some of the very FIRST uses of it were to 'cartoonize' Satan. To start a 'campaign' in which the Devil is depicted as a CARTOON. Making fun of the idea as if the Devil is nothing other than a CARTOON. Placing the concept right out in the open so that MOST could be influenced to believe that the Devil was created by 'cartoonists'.

And that is what MANY have come to believe. Because of the manner in which the Devil has been portrayed in the media, many have come to accept the IDEA that Satan was created by 'artists' and that there isn't a REAL Devil.

And then 'science' has had it's part in reinforcing the SAME concept. Mental illness is nothing other than 'chemical imbalances' in the brain. Traumatic experiences, etc........

But how about this: If a traumatic experience can cause imbalances in the brain, why couldn't 'demons', if left to their own devices, over TIME, cause the SAME type 'imbalances of the brain' as a traumatic experience?

I offer that EVERY time we take a larger 'step' in betraying the image in which we were created it CAUSES a 'traumatic experience' in our lives. And the LARGER the step the MORE traumatic.

Guilt, self loathing, these can become overwhelming MENTAL disorders. They can lead to an overly unhealthy mental state. And who's to say that it won't LEAD to actual changes in the chemistry of the brain?

Memories cause changes in the actual structure of the brain. So who can say that demonic influence can't cause similar 'changes'. And over time, alter the actual physical state of the brain to the point that one would be considered INSANE or bi polar or any NUMBER of different NAMES we attribute to mental disorders.

ALL mental disorders or diseases of the brain? Absolutely NOT. But how MUCH of the mental disorder are we dealing with today that may have a SPIRITUAL solution. A spiritual CURE so to say? For when we read the symptoms of those described as being 'possessed of demons' in the Bible, the symptoms sound EXACTLY like 'mental disorders'. And Christ, by casting out demons, HEALED those so possessed. And not ONLY Christ, but many of His disciples are listed as casting out demons as well.

But it appears that this method of HEALING was, for some REASON, abandoned LONG ago and replaced with CHEMICALS. POISONS. And prescribed to those with symptoms resembling possession. And the funny part is that they haven't found a 'chemical' YET that HEALS those with the symptoms. At BEST it seems that they simply DULL the senses of those in need of help. And who's to say that their 'condition' doesn't actually WORSEN under the influence of these 'chemicals'. These chemicals making their minds MORE susceptible to the influence of outside sources. So when they stop taking their 'medication', they are in worse shape than they were before STARTING medication?

But there is NO reason to believe that demons 'went away'. And EVERY reason to believe that they are ALIVE and WELL and working towards their LEADERS goal: Satan's plan is to one day BE the 'God of this world'. And it appears to me that he is succeeding wonderfully. Succeeding to the point that he has convinced most men that he doesn't even exist. Convinced a major portion of this world that HE IS GOD and has a major portion of this world WORSHIPING HIM as God ALREADY.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[he-man]

You've got it. In order to KNOW that one is FREE from demons, they MUST 'abide IN Christ'. That doesn't mean running around telling everyone that they BELIEVE in Christ. To abide IN Christ means to be a FOLLOWER of Christ, not just using His NAME. . So when they stop taking their 'medication', they are in worse shape than they were before STARTING medication? But there is NO reason to believe that demons 'went away'. And Satan's plan is to one day BE the 'God of this world'.Blessings, MEC

Are you qualified?
2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?— unless indeed you are disqualified
[SIZE=+2]שָׂטָן [/SIZE]

[FONT=tempus sans, tempus sans itc]sa-tan [/FONT][FONT=tempus sans, tempus sans itc]Opponent [/FONT]
Funny but there is no word demon listed in the Old Testament. There is a word for Opponent.

The only word for angel is [SIZE=+2]מַלְאָךְ

[FONT=tempus sans, tempus sans itc]mal-akh [/FONT][FONT=tempus sans, tempus sans itc]Messenger[/FONT][/SIZE]
Can a snake talk? Huh? Can a donkey talk?
Num 22:31 Then the LORD opened the eyes of Balaam, and he saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand: and he bowed down his head, and fell flat on his face.
Num 22:32 And the angel of the LORD said unto him

 

[Imagican]

Are you qualified?
2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?— unless indeed you are disqualified
[SIZE=+2]שָׂטָן [/SIZE]

[FONT=tempus sans, tempus sans itc]sa-tan Opponent [/FONT]
Funny but there is no word demon listed in the Old Testament. There is a word for Opponent.

The only word for angel is [SIZE=+2]מַלְאָךְ

[FONT=tempus sans, tempus sans itc]mal-akh Messenger[/FONT][/SIZE]
Can a snake talk? Huh? Can a donkey talk?
Num 22:31 Then the LORD opened the eyes of Balaam, and he saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand: and he bowed down his head, and fell flat on his face.
Num 22:32 And the angel of the LORD said unto him

I don't understand you point. There are many things mentioned in the NT that are not mentioned in the OT. I guess you could reason that there is a DIFFERENCE between the two. Get it? Old Testament/NEW Testament. I guess you could also call the difference BEFORE Jesus/AFTER Jesus.

Your offering that the word demon doesn't exist in the OT as some sort of reasoning that demons do not exist would be like saying since the word Baptism isn't in the OT then it means it doesn't exist either.

Once again, let's face the FACTS. Not bounce back and forth trying to cater to your PERSONAL interpretation of the Bible. The Bible STATES that Jesus Christ 'cast out demons'. Do you BELIEVE that Jesus Christ 'cast out demons'.

This isn't a question that requires debate. It is a SIMPLE 'yes or no' question: Do YOU believe that Jesus Christ 'cast out demons'?

Blessings,

MEC

 

[he-man]

I don't understand you point. There are many things mentioned in the NT that are not mentioned in the OT. I guess you could reason that there is a DIFFERENCE between the two. Get it? Old Testament/NEW Testament. I guess you could also call the difference BEFORE Jesus/AFTER Jesus. Blessings, MEC

Matthew 12:34 Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.

The eternal fire of Hell presided over by Satan is a pagan belief which attached itself to Christianity some time before the composition of the Gospel of St. Matthew, that is to say, after A.D. 100. The references of Jesus to Satan are so rare and so vague that one may suppose him to have had no belief in a personal Devil, 2 though he certainly believed in the powers of evil. The Christian idea of the Prince of Darkness seems to have entered the Faith through Mithraism, wherein Mithra was "Light" personified, and hence Evil was "Darkness "; and Satan is simply the old Persian Ahriman, the eternal enemy of Ormuzd, and the ancient Egyptian Set, the opponent of Osiris.
In his form as Mephistopheles he is to be traced to the once much-loved god Pan; and as Beelzebub he is Zeus Myiagros, "the Disperser of the Flies," who, to the Philistines at Ekron, was Ba'al-z'bub, "Lord of the Flies," a once benevolent god, patron of the flocks.
Christianity has concerned itself so much with this mythical Devil, with the fiery furnace, and with man's escape from it through the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ upon the cross, and it has advocated so continually the worship of Jesus as God and Saviour, that it has detached the attention of its members from the fact that the mission of the Faith should really be the furtherance of the Kingdom of God on earth, the establishment of right conditions amongst living men.
1 Peter iii, 19; iv. 6.
2 The whole passage in Matt. xxv. 31-46 is of very dubious authenticity.
Pages 271-273
PAGANISM IN OUR CHRISTIANITY

 

[Kathryn Jensen]

Wow. ANOTHER 'UNIVERSALIST'?

I'll tell you what. Do us a favor and SHOW us ONE line out of the Bible that even INDICATES that Satan or his demons were eliminated by Jesus. just ONE line.

The funny thing is that there IS NO line that offers such. ALL indication is that Satan is TRYING HARDER now than every before. And that the 'falling away' is MORE prevalent NOW than ever before.

But I guess if you choose to believe that there ARE no demons, then what the Bible does offer is pretty irrelevant. Where you say there is no explanation concerning demons, I find TONS of it. I'll wait a bit before I begin to quote scripture. But I do ask that you provide JUST ONE LINE of out of the Bible that even INDICATES that there are no demons presently or that Satan has been separated from this world.

Blessings,

MEC

I agree. How in the world can anyone say that demons have somehow been removed when there is not one mention of it. I would think that this would be an important topic in many of the letters to the churches. Yet, not once is it mentioned by any of the Apostles in any letter. To what is Ephesians 6:12 referring? What about I Tim 4 speaking of deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Craziness..."My people perish for lack of knowledge."

 

[Imagican]

I agree. How in the world can anyone say that demons have somehow been removed when there is not one mention of it. I would think that this would be an important topic in many of the letters to the churches. Yet, not once is it mentioned by any of the Apostles in any letter. To what is Ephesians 6:12 referring? What about I Tim 4 speaking of deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Craziness..."My people perish for lack of knowledge."

Exactly. We KNOW that the apostles were empowered to 'cast out' demons. And we can SEE many committing crimes TODAY openly admitting the presence of demons within them inspiring or compelling them to commit their crimes.

I have studied this for years. And it's amazing how many individuals that have committed some of the most atrocious crimes of our times have offered almost EXACT confessions.

While 'the world', (legal system and most of the populace), views those that make such confessions as 'NUTS', if one reads the symptoms of 'demon possession' offered in the Bible, those TOO would appear to be 'NUTS' by today's standard.
And who's to say that when one entertains a 'demon' or 'demons' LONG enough, they don't BECOME what could be considered 'insane'. The man "Legion" was viewed in such a manner yet the Bible explains that he was POSSESSED by MANY demons.

Once released, (or cured), from his demons, we are then given a picture of a man that had been completely restored to 'sanity'. Sitting and talking with Christ like any other man. The people witnessing it so astonished as to believe Christ to be possessed as well. Or at least we are told that the people that witnessed the 'transformation of Legion' being so 'afraid' of Jesus that He was asked to LEAVE.

Do 'demons' exist today? ALL indications are that they not only exist, but are working OVER TIME knowing that their time is limited. And it would appear that their influence NOW is most likely GREATER than at any time in the past. For as men's hearts become further and further detached from the TRUTH, that leaves them WIDE OPEN to such influence. And take into consideration that practicing witchcraft and any other sort of 'dark arts or religions' is now ACCEPTABLE in most countries of this world, it only stands to reason that demonic influence has INCREASED rather than decreased.

I mostly speak pertaining to the Bible and notorious example. But in my own life I have witnessed at least two instances where I actually held conversation with demons. And in both cases, when I recognized what it was that I was speaking to and was speaking to me, it REVELED in my recognition. I mean literally SMILING and nodding in agreement as if when I let it know I recognized it it LIKED the recognition. And in one of these instances I was in a crowd of about 100 people. And not a ONE of them was willing to admit what they actually SAW that night. While all that I spoke to afterwards praised me for my part in the battle, no one would even acknowledge the actual WORDS that were spoken by myself and the individual possessed. And this 'demon' KNEW things. It was like the story "Pet Semetary" when the man's son was brought back from the dead and confronted the townspeople. This 'demon' that I confronted KNEW things about me that were IMPOSSIBLE for the person to KNOW, (the person didn't KNOW me well enough to know ANYTHING about me). Yet they made accusations about past events that were impossible for that PERSON to know.

I rarely speak of these events to most people for most people would simply dismiss the offerings as 'he's NUTS'. But I KNOW what I have experienced and what I have offered is the TRUTH. I just wonder why I seem to be one of the ONLY people that has had such experiences? Or do others experience similar situations but 'blow it off' as just 'some nutty stuff' without any merit? I REMEMBER the instances that I have experienced like it happened yesterday.

And........I can be honest with myself and others. At times when I have done some of the NUTTIEST things I've ever done, I can STILL remember being COMPELLED to do them. Even KNOWING that I shouldn't, KNOWING that it was wrong and even wondering WHERE the ideas CAME from, I still did things that when asked WHY, I had NO explanation. "I don't KNOW why" is all I could offer in response.

So how does one do things utterly against their very nature without an explanation? If one accepts an answer from 'those of this world', it's merely a matter of psychology. But if we refer to the Bible for an answer and are willing to ACCEPT what it offers, the answer if obviously NOT merely a matter of one's MIND. It's MUCH deeper in significance.

And it has become MY FIRM BELIEF that anyone that denies the very existence of demons has absolutely NO DEFENSE against them. That means that they are most likely POSSESSED.

And I hate to use this word. It's more like demons are parasites than actual replacement entities. Like the subtly offer influence a little at a time until they end up making their host believe that their influence is actually a part of their OWN mind. The host begins to believe that the THOUGHTS introduced are their OWN. And once a demon is able to reach this level, who's to say it can't actually gain CONTROL over one's physical body? That once one begins to believe that the influence of demons is from their OWN mind or heart, that the demons can't make them "pull a trigger" or 'do things' that the person themselves, momentarily, has NO control over.

How often do we hear THIS and ignore it's implication: "I LOST CONTROL". Hmmm.........If this is TRUTH, if one IS capable of 'LOOSING CONTROL', when they have lost control and no longer IN control, what IS? Or when someone uses the term "snapped". What does that REALLY mean? Or when someone says, "I don't really remember. I remember getting angry and then everything went blank. The next thing I knew I was standing their with blood on my hands and they were laying there dead".

Don't these "THINGS" resemble EXACTLY what we are given in instruction from the Bible? A man says, "Every time my son gets near a fire the demons THROW him into the fire and try to kill him. And every time he is near water the demons throw him in the water and try to drown him."

If we eliminate the word demon and just speak of a boy who 'falls into a fire' every time he is near fire. Or jumps in water over his head every time he gets near water, it would sound like we were describing the acts of someone that is 'NUTS'. Some sort of 'mental disorder'.

But that is NOT what we are offered in the Bible. The Bible STATES that it was 'a demon' or 'demons' that were FORCING this child to harm himself. That the 'demon' or 'demons' actually had PHYSICAL CONTROL over the boys BODY. Think about it.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Imagican]

"Running with the Devil", "Highway to Hell", "My little Demon", "The Devil Inside" How is it possible that so many with so much to offer concerning demons or the devil are able to IGNORE all the information when we compare the offerings to the Bible?

FEAR. They are TERRIFIED that if they admit the truth, then they are forced to admit to their OWN demons. Forced to admit the influence that the Devil has over themselves. And if one were to finally admit the truth, then they are left with but TWO alternatives: LIVE with the knowledge and understanding, or RESIST. And according to the Bible there is really ONLY ONE WAY TO RESIST: through the power of God through His Son.

So, that leaves the WORLD which denies God and His Son to DENY the TRUTH concerning Satan and his demons. Through shear FEAR they are forced to dismiss the very IDEA for to face the truth would mean to accept their OWN demonic influence.

Song writers and story writers have written about the Devil and demons for thousands of years. Yet the majority of those that have made them FAMOUS would rather dismiss the stories or lyrics as FICTION for the simple fact that to admit that there is TRUTH contained within the words written or sung is to open up an understanding they are UNWILLING to face. Easier to dismiss the information as 'just stories' or 'just lyrics'. When the TRUTH is, there is a REASON that these 'stories' or 'songs' have INFLUENCE to draw us IN. And that influence is that DEEP DOWN INSIDE OUR HEARTS, we KNOW that there is TRUTH there. We just do our best to bury it as deeply as we are able in order to keep from FACING the TRUTH. Ok to SING about or read stories about, for then we can dismiss it as just fantasy. But if we ACCEPT the TRUTH we are then forced to SEE things in a completely DIFFERENT perspective. And THAT perspective is something few are willing to even contemplate. WHO is willing to accept that their decisions might not be THEIR OWN? Who is willing to accept that there is something within themselves that they are UNABLE to control? Easier to simply dismiss the idea and believe that WE are in control than to realize and openly confess that there is something ELSE that is capable of controlling our thoughts and actions.

And that's where the 'subversive' come in. Artists have ALWAYS been 'subversive' to the common man and common thoughts and ideas. They deal with the SURREAL and things that most are not comfortable with. And let us just LOOK at the message that the artists have continually offered the masses concerning Satan and demons.

This is NOT a 'new message'. Artists have been offering a DEEPER understanding since the time 'art' started to be practiced. Evil spirits and the BELIEF in evil spirits is as old as humanity itself. WHY? Because it's FANTASY? Or because of it being REALITY? I would say the later according to the Bible. People have KNOWN of the existence of EVIL SPIRITS since the BEGINNING of time. It is a pervasive subject in EVERY religion that has EVER existed. until MODERN times. Now it is more popular to pretend that what was once COMMON knowledge was nothing other than ignorant imaginings of primitive peoples. Yet it would appear that they KNEW more about the TRUTH than people are willing to accept TODAY.

If Satan was capable of taking the form of a serpent in the garden, what do you suppose happened to Satan AFTER the garden? Did he 'go away'? Stop influencing men and women? OBVIOUSLY NOT according to the Bible. For the Book of Job plainly illustrates that Satan was ALIVE and WELL after 'the garden'. As a matter of fact, it appears from HIS words that he was doing VERY WELL.

It would actually appear that like God had FEW examples of men who had NOT been influenced by Satan. For God did not refer Satan to a COMMUNITY of believers uninfluenced by Satan, but to ONE MAN. And even all those around him seem to have been under demonic influence from his friends to HIS OWN WIFE.

So Satan didn't LOOSE any ability AFTER the garden. It would seem that his ability INCREASED to the point that only a handful of generations after Adam and Eve he had somehow accomplished that ALL men's hearts had become EVIL continually. to the point that God decided to DESTROY all that he had created except for ONE MAN and his family. And the REASON for Satan's success? Man's FLESH and IT'S desires.

Blessings,

MEC