The Creation V Evolution Argument

[SpiritDriven]

I was just over looking in the Origions Theology section...

Has anybody noticed that the Creationists have closed their eyes to the Physical evidence that God provides us in the record of the Earth to show the true age of the Earth and that Evolution is the timely way in which he creates....

and the Evolutionists close their eyes to the Physical Evidence God has provided for them that he exists...example, the reformation of the State of Israel on schedule with prophecy from the bible....

It seems to me that the Creationists are not aware that it was God who created the Laws of Physics, and it was God who created the Sciences we use, man only discovered these Sciences because God revealed them.

The evolutionists claim the reformation of Israel as self full filling prophecy, yet it was God who created Mathamatics, and the Mathamatical equation to be discerned from the Bible is exact....Spring 1948.

This time frame for the reformation of Israel, was spoken of in Scripture, thousands of years before any man was smart enough to know the mathematics or even declare it would be self full filling prophecy.

Has anybody else noticed how blind both opposing sides of the arguement are...?

 

[AndOne]

I was just over looking in the Origions Theology section...

Has anybody noticed that the Creationists have closed their eyes to the Physical evidence that God provides us in the record of the Earth to show the true age of the Earth and that Evolution is the timely way in which he creates....

and the Evolutionists close their eyes to the Physical Evidence God has provided for them that he exists...example, the reformation of the State of Israel on schedule with prophecy from the bible....

It seems to me that the Creationists are not aware that it was God who created the Laws of Physics, and it was God who created the Sciences we use, man only discovered these Sciences because God revealed them.

The evolutionists claim the reformation of Israel as self full filling prophecy, yet it was God who created Mathamatics, and the Mathamatical equation to be discerned from the Bible is exact....Spring 1948.

This time frame for the reformation of Israel, was spoken of in Scripture, thousands of years before any man was smart enough to know the mathematics or even declare it would be self full filling prophecy.

Has anybody else noticed how blind both opposing sides of the arguement are...?

So are you saying you believe in evolution?

 

[laconicstudent]

Evolution is of course, true. It has been the unifying theory of the biological sciences for the past century or so and is supported by mountains of research.

 

[Sphinx777]

Evolution is of course, true. It has been the unifying theory of the biological sciences for the past century or so and is supported by mountains of research.

Biology (from Greek βιολογία - βίος, bios, "life"; -λογία, -logia, study of) is the natural science concerned with the study of life and living organisms, including their structure, function, growth, origin, evolution, distribution, and taxonomy. The term biology in its modern sense appears to have been introduced independently by Karl Friedrich Burdach (1800), Gottfried Reinhold Treviranus (Biologie oder Philosophie der lebenden Natur, 1802), and Jean-Baptiste Lamarck (Hydrogéologie, 1802).

Biology is a vast subject containing many subdivisions, topics, and theories. Five unifying principles form the fundamental axioms of modern biology: cell theory, evolution, gene theory, energy, and homeostasis.

These fields are further divided based on the scale at which organisms are studied and the methods used to study them: biochemistry examines the rudimentary chemistry of life; molecular biology studies the complex interactions of systems of biological molecules; cellular biology examines the basic building block of all life, the cell; physiology examines the physical and chemical functions of the tissues, organs, and organ systems of an organism; and ecology examines how various organisms interrelate with their environment.

The classification, taxonomy, and nomenclature of biological organisms is administered by the International Code of Zoological Nomenclature, International Code of Botanical Nomenclature, and International Code of Nomenclature of Bacteria for animals, plants, and bacteria, respectively. Viruses, viroids, prions, and all other sub-viral agents that demonstrate biological characteristics are controlled by the International Code of Virus classification and nomenclature. However, several other viral classification systems do exist.

 

[SpiritDriven]

Evolution is of course, true. It has been the unifying theory of the biological sciences for the past century or so and is supported by mountains of research.

Also supported by mountains of irrefuteable Physical evidence, displayed in the record of the Earth.

However this irrefuteable Physical evidence, and the Sciences used to calculate the true age of the Earth, where both provided by God, for man to learn the true age of the Earth.

What man would not be left in Awe of God, and the staggering scale on which he creates.

I think it Glorifies God so much more.....and then the reformation of the Nation of Istael, on schedule with Bible prophecy.

Truly we must be in the last of the last days, for God to be producing physical signs on both sides of the alledged argument beyween Creationists and Evolutionists.

I say alledged argument, because the Physical evidence God is producing on both sides of the argument in these last of days.....is that Creation and Evolution go hand in hand.

Isnt that just like God, to make the alledged wise on both sides look foolish by providing physical evidence for both sides of the argument ?

 

[SpiritDriven]

So are you saying you believe in evolution?

To be honest....the irrefuteable physical evidence displayed in the record of the Earth, shows the handy work of the Lord, and prooves scientificaly with the Physical Laws that God created and the Sciences God created, that Evolution...is...the timely fashion in which God creates.

The Physical evidence is there in the record of the Earth....

My eyes are not closed to that.....nither are my eyes closed to the Reformation of the Nation of Israel, on schedule with Bible prophecy.

So to ask if I was an Evolutionist....may be the wrong question to ask.

I am a disciple of Jesus Christ....that has noticed God providing Physical evidence for both sides of the Creation V Evolution argument.

It leaves me more in Awe of God than anything else....

 

[Dark_Lite]

I was just over looking in the Origions Theology section...

Has anybody noticed that the Creationists have closed their eyes to the Physical evidence that God provides us in the record of the Earth to show the true age of the Earth and that Evolution is the timely way in which he creates....

and the Evolutionists close their eyes to the Physical Evidence God has provided for them that he exists...example, the reformation of the State of Israel on schedule with prophecy from the bible....

It seems to me that the Creationists are not aware that it was God who created the Laws of Physics, and it was God who created the Sciences we use, man only discovered these Sciences because God revealed them.

The evolutionists claim the reformation of Israel as self full filling prophecy, yet it was God who created Mathamatics, and the Mathamatical equation to be discerned from the Bible is exact....Spring 1948.

This time frame for the reformation of Israel, was spoken of in Scripture, thousands of years before any man was smart enough to know the mathematics or even declare it would be self full filling prophecy.

Has anybody else noticed how blind both opposing sides of the arguement are...?

Well, considering Origins Theology is a Christians-only section, I don't think think your first observation about "evolutionists" is true, at least not for that section. I also have no idea what Origins Theology has to do with Israel.

 

[SpiritDriven]

Well, considering Origins Theology is a Christians-only section, I don't think think your first observation about "evolutionists" is true, at least not for that section. I also have no idea what Origins Theology has to do with Israel.

Hello Dark Light

Alright then in regards to Creation versus Evolution, amongst Christians.

Why do you think it is that either side has not yet recognised that Creation and Evolution go hand in hand ?

Especialy in light of the Physical evidence provided by God in the record of the Earth ?

This of course is not a Salvation issue....yet when you consider that God did create the Laws of Physics, and determined the Sciences man would one day use (after he revealed them to man)

One is left wondering how the over whelming body of Physical evidence in the record of the Earth can be ignored.

After all these are the last days, knowledge is suppossed to be increasing, but only because God is doing the revealing.

My Goodness, man is so stupid and inept, that he would not even know there was a God, unless God had done that revealing.

Peace

 

[icamewithasword]

Hello Dark Light

Alright then in regards to Creation versus Evolution, amongst Christians.

Why do you think it is that either side has not yet recognised that Creation and Evolution go hand in hand ?

Especialy in light of the Physical evidence provided by God in the record of the Earth ?

I have not yet recognized it because in my ignorance I depend on the Word of God....in His revealed truth contained in scrpture; His revelation to me (and all men, really).

I hope one day to reach your level of understanding how science explains scripture.... maybe I should pray harder to receive the same special revelation that you have.

But for now; I remain stuck in my ignorance and 'blind' faith that all scripture is true just as it is perfectly written, and knowing that God mocks the worldly wise men.

I will say, though.... I find a special joy in my faith knowing that I can take absolute truth from scripture just as it's written and not need to pursue man's wisdom from a sixth-grade science textbook to make me feel better about believing God and His Word.

OK, go ahead and pick what I said apart..... God already knows what is in your heart.
I'm very interested in hearing how the Holy Spirit has guided you to such a special revelation. And if this is not the case (about the Holy Spirit, that is) then I must caution you against teaching it as a 'truth'.

 

[laconicstudent]

Why on earth should Science and Christianity really address each other at all is what I want to know? Its an interesting side-note, but unless someone has come up with an objective experimental method to prove or disprove God, scientists are totally right to leave God and the spiritual out of science altogether.

 

[SpiritDriven]

For Icamewithasword

Well my experience with God.....was not my idea.
I guess I always believed there was God, but I was sort of avoiding him, doing my own thing.
Looking back I guess I was a womaniser like Sampson, and tried to run away from God like Jonah.

Anyways God caught up with me.....I will not go into the full details here,(suffice it to say that he knows the way to each and every one of us) but when he touched me I saw his intentions towards all human kind.

(Nice to know that not one single person will be lost to him in the end)

Anyway all of that aside.....is not God the Author and creator of all things ?

 

[SpiritDriven]

Why on earth should Science and Christianity really address each other at all is what I want to know? Its an interesting side-note, but unless someone has come up with an objective experimental method to prove or disprove God, scientists are totally right to leave God and the spiritual out of science altogether.

Because God created the Laws of Physics, and the Science men use....before the first man was made.

doh!

 

[laconicstudent]

Because God created the Laws of Physics, and the Science men use....before the first man was made.

doh!

That's nice.

Now, if you want us to consider that claim in science, you are going to have to prove it with objective experimentation, document it all so I can repeat it, and get it published after being reviewed by the experts in the relevant field. Have fun.

The Scientific Method is a beautiful thing, isn't it.

 

[SpiritDriven]

Well how about the Mathamatical equation for calculating the reformation of Israel in the Spring of 1948 ?

It comes from the Bible and was written 2,500 years ago....the Physical evidence being the reformation of the Nation of Israel ?

 

[laconicstudent]

Well how about the Mathamatical equation for calculating the reformation of Israel in the Spring of 1948 ?

It comes from the Bible and was written 2,500 years ago....the Physical evidence being the reformation of the Nation of Israel ?

Correlation does not imply causation. If you are talking about the Bible Code, that was one huge confirmation bias. Obviously, if you keep looking for a message in a book as long as the Bible, you will eventually find something. As I recall, they also found messages in books like Paradise Lost.

This doesn't prove God exists. It proves you feed some books into a cryptology routine and get some word-searches that you can claim are "predictions".

 

[SpiritDriven]

Here it is anyway....remember in Lev that God said that if the people did not return to Israel after their Babalonian captivity that their punishment in exile would increase 7 fold....which is what happened many of them settled in the lands they where taken captive too and did not return.....so their punishment increased 7 fold.

Notice how precise the Mathamatics is...


The Jews would remain without an independent nation for another 2,520 biblical years from 536 B.C., the beginning point of the prediction (360 years x 7 = 2,520 years biblical years).
Ezekiel's prophecy of the 430 years declared that the end of Israel's punishment and her final restoration to the land would be accomplished in 2,520 biblical years of 360 days each which totals precisely 907,200 days. To convert this period into our calendar year of 365.25 days we simply divide the period of 907,200 days by 365.25 days to reach a total of 2,483.8 of our modern calendar years. Therefore, Ezekiel prophesied that the end of Israel's worldwide captivity would occur precisely 2,483.8 years after the end of the Babylonian Captivity which occurred in the spring of 536 B.C. In these calculations we must keep in mind that there was only one year between 1 B.C. and A.D. 1. There was no year Zero. As an illustration, there were only twelve months between the Feast of Passover on 14th of Nisan in the spring of 1 B.C. and the next annual Feast of Passover in the spring of A.D. 1.

To Calculate When Ezekiel Prophesied the Jews Would Become a Nation Again
The Babylonian captivity ended in the Spring of 536 B.C.536.4 B.C.MINUSThe duration of Israel's captivity (from Ezekiel 4:3-6)2,483.8 calendar years=1,947.4 A.D.To adjust for the fact there was no year zero between 1 B.C. and A.D. 1, we adjust one year.+1
Therefore; the end of Israel's captivity would occur:
1948 - May 15
The Rebirth of Israel

 

[laconicstudent]

Here it is anyway....remember in Lev that God said that if the people did not return to Israel after their Babalonian captivity that their punishment in exile would increase 7 fold....which is what happened many of them settled in the lands they where taken captive too and did not return.....so their punishment increased 7 fold.

Notice how prrecise the Mathamatics is...


The Jews would remain without an independent nation for another 2,520 biblical years from 536 B.C., the beginning point of the prediction (360 years x 7 = 2,520 years biblical years).
Ezekiel's prophecy of the 430 years declared that the end of Israel's punishment and her final restoration to the land would be accomplished in 2,520 biblical years of 360 days each which totals precisely 907,200 days. To convert this period into our calendar year of 365.25 days we simply divide the period of 907,200 days by 365.25 days to reach a total of 2,483.8 of our modern calendar years. Therefore, Ezekiel prophesied that the end of Israel's worldwide captivity would occur precisely 2,483.8 years after the end of the Babylonian Captivity which occurred in the spring of 536 B.C. In these calculations we must keep in mind that there was only one year between 1 B.C. and A.D. 1. There was no year Zero. As an illustration, there were only twelve months between the Feast of Passover on 14th of Nisan in the spring of 1 B.C. and the next annual Feast of Passover in the spring of A.D. 1.
To Calculate When Ezekiel Prophesied the Jews Would Become a Nation Again
The Babylonian captivity ended in the Spring of 536 B.C.536.4 B.C.MINUSThe duration of Israel's captivity (from Ezekiel 4:3-6)2,483.8 calendar years=1,947.4 A.D.To adjust for the fact there was no year zero between 1 B.C. and A.D. 1, we adjust one year.+1
Therefore; the end of Israel's captivity would occur:
1948 - May 15
The Rebirth of Israel

No, the answer you are going to get is "What a nice coincidence."

This isn't objective science, this is a coincidence. You've taken a bunch of numbers, made up a few (Exile of Israel) and put them through some arbitrary equations until they fit the conclusion which is that there must be predictions embedded in the text.

 

[SpiritDriven]

No, the answer you are going to get is "What a nice coincidence."

This isn't objective science, this is a coincidence. You've taken a bunch of numbers, made up a few (Exile of Israel) and put them through some arbitrary equations until they fit the conclusion which is that there must be predictions embedded in the text.

Well ofcourse I would expect that sort of response from an Athiest.

Coincidence, not at all, the numbers where given too us by the prophets, or we would have had no starting point to calculate from, there is no escape or arguing around that.

If we are not given a starting point number, we have no starting point to calculate from.

The existance of Israel must at some stage be on the heart and mind of every athiest.

Like Scripture says....Only the fool says in his heart, there is no God!

I think we have firmly established that God invented Mathamatics here as well, with the rebirth of Israel being the Physical evidence.

Mind you Athiests are not lost to God in the end either, Like scripture says....every knee will bow....every tounge will swear allegiance.

Peace

 

[laconicstudent]

Coincidence, not at all, the numbers where given too us by the prophets, or we would have had no starting point to calculate from, there is no escape or arguing around that.

Sure there is. The equations you use are something you made up because of a confirmation bias. Your methodology is flawed.

The existance of Israel must at some stage be on the heart and mind of every athiest.

Why?

Like Scripture says....Only the fool says in his heart, there is no God!

I doubt atheistic science could really care less. That is the entire point.

I think we have firmly established that God invented Mathamatics here as well, with the rebirth of Israel being the Physical evidence.

.........

No, you actually haven't. You've quoted a very well known hoax, which as been refuted in formal statistics research literature.

JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

"Solving the Bible Code". Brendan McKay et al. Statistical Science. 1999. Volume 14, number 2. pages 150-178.

Abstract

A paper of Witztum, Rips and Rosenberg in this journal in 1994 made the extraordinary claim that the Hebrew text of the Book of Genesis encodes events which did not occur until millennia after the text was written. In reply, we argue that Witztum, Rips and Rosenberg's case is fatally defective, indeed that their result merely reflects on the choices made in designing their experiment and collecting the data for it. We present extensive evidence in support of that conclusion. We also report on many new experiments of our own, all of which failed to detect the alleged phenomenon.

Even if true, the Bible Code is nothing more then an interesting coincidence. You haven't even tried to prove God so far. Trying to use Bible Code (even if true) as evidence for God is an amazingly blatant example of the Correlation implying causation logical fallacy.

Mind you Athiests are not lost to God in the end either, Like scripture says....every knee will bow....every tounge will swear allegiance.

Peace

That is nice. Prove it. Prove it so we can actually say that in a scientific context instead of just in our private religion.

 

[SpiritDriven]

This is the part I really Love!..... Let us have a look at the Historical facts, it is human history after all, somthing that cannot be refuted, because it is part of the Human historical record....

In Ezekiel 4:3-6, the prophet said the Jews, who had lost control of their homeland, would be punished for 430 years

Ezekiel said the Jews were to be punished for 430 years because they had turned away from God. As part of the punishment, the Jews lost control of their homeland to Babylon. Many Jews were taken as captives to Babylon

Established Historical fact.....

Babylon was later conquered by Cyrus in 539 BC. Cyrus allowed the Jews to leave Babylon and to return to their homeland. But, only a small number returned. The return had taken place sometime around 536 BC, about 70 years after Judah lost independence to Babylon.

Established historical fact......

Because most of the exiles chose to stay in pagan Babylon rather than return to the Holy Land, the remaining 360 years of their punishment was multiplied by 7. The reason is explained in Bible's book of Leviticus. (Leviticus 26:18, 26:21, 26:24 and 26:28). In Leviticus, it says that if the people did not repent while being punished, the punishment would be multiplied by 7. And, by staying in pagan Babylon, most exiles were refusing to repent

This would only become Historical Fact if Israel was reborn as a Nation in 1948

It is now Historical Fact that Israel was reborn as a Nation.....

So, if you take the remaining 360 years of punishment and multiply by 7, you get 2,520 years. But, those years are based on an ancient 360-day lunar calendar. If those years are adjusted to the modern solar calendar, the result is 2,484 years

Established Mathamatical Facts......

And, there were exactly 2,484 years from 536 BC to 1948, which is the year that Israel regained independence.

Bible passage: Ezekiel 11:17
Prophet: Ezekiel
Written: between 593-571 BC
Fulfilled: 1948


Established Historical facts.....because the Prophets of God gave us the start point to calculate from.

The Mathematics are exact.....and Israel exists in our Physical World....there is nothing to refute....