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The big scary world of science

Discussion in 'Creationism' started by JesusThree16, Sep 6, 2008.

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  1. JesusThree16

    JesusThree16 Newbie

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    I embrace science and believe that since truth cannot contradict truth that science will one day prove us right. It's not easy to get there though. Getting a degree in biology or geology requires one to suffer through a lot of stuff that is wrong and goes against scripture. Then when you get a degree then you need to get experience and build a reputation. which requires more work in such flawed science. Then there's the process of getting a masters or a doctorate in which you have to not only perform research but then defend it against vicious criticism.

    It's not an easy thing to be working for the science of God. they beat you down and make it all but impossible for you to publish your work or get a job at an "accredited" university. There are exceptions but they are truly exceptions that are deserving of praise and respect.

    Ultimately this is the way to accomplish our goals. if we want to get into schools and textbooks then we need to get in through science, not by bypassing science. its difficult, its hard, but God is worth the sacrifice.
     
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  2. juvenissun

    juvenissun Veteran

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    With God's guidance, it is, in fact, not that hard. Science is the gift of God to human. God's gift could not be bad or be wrong. If one set up one's mind right, science is a tool which allows us to appreciate the mighty of God a whole lot more.

    There are A LOT of ways to study secular science without negating anything about God. Science could not prove creation anyway. So there is no need to make that kind of flashy (or stupid) announcement/argument. For example, if a geology model said a geological process needs 100 million years to get done, and if I can show it only take 1 million years, then I am supporting Creationism without even saying the word. And I will still be respected by all secular scientists regardless.
     
  3. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member

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    I was graduated in 1966 after taking advanced course work in Biology, Physics, Chemistry, and Mathematics and some course work in Geology and Psychology. The University I attended called this a Science Area.

    In my senior level course in genetics, I demonstrated that there was no more than a fifty percent chance that the ratio of beneficial mutations to detrimental mutations was any greater than one in 10,000. The data did not show how much smaller the rate might be, only that there was no more than a 50% chance that it was any greater than that. The only person in my class that failed to realize that this was evidence against the theory of evolution was the Professor! (He called it one of the best, if not the best, research paper he had received in his fifteen years of teaching experience. And then said he did not understand why anyone professing to not believe in evolution would offer such good evidence for it.!!!!)

    I entered the world of applied science, rather than pure science, and became an engineer. I am now retired, and write.
     
  4. juvenissun

    juvenissun Veteran

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    Good story.

    That is why I admire people work in ICR/AiG and other organizations that raise the creationism flag high. They know sciences as little as we do. But they loudly spell out the word creation as an explicit message to people like your undergrad professor. They will be rewarded high in the heaven.
     
  5. RobertByers

    RobertByers Regular Member

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    There should be no problem for creationists in any science if your quiet about your creationists beliefs. Lots of genesis-believing people get paid in these professions.
    If you public then yes you will be attacked. yet origin subjects are not science any way so they can always attack your conclusions as unscientific because so are theirs.
    I agree ICR/AIG are the finest organizations to come along in fighting for the truth of Genesis and pushing these subjects toward a better intellectual understanding for the gain of human intelligence.
    Since creationism is true then origin subjects by intellectual right are our possession more then others. We just need more people with interests in these things and that can be sure of employment.
    ICR/AIG are tough on creationists who they associate with. I had a lot of resistance to a essay i wrote explaining the seeming marsupial anomaly in Australia post flood.
    i understood however they watch carefully what they give thumbs up to. it makes it difficult for entry level creationists works but in time truth will prevail everywhere on origins. If we have the time.
     
  6. Matthewj1985

    Matthewj1985 New Member

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    So should I pretend to be a Catholic, go through seminary, rise through the ranks till I get a few hundred folks in my "flock" and then tell them there really is no God and they are all idiots for believing it? If you think young earth creationism holds water than start putting out papers on it. As of today AiG or any of the other groups has not put out a single paper that can stand legitimate peer review. The reason why is because they have no evidence. I am begging you, if you think science is a big lie, enter the field and see for yourself. The best way to turn a rational creationist into a logical thinker is to educate him in the field of science. Even Behe understands common decent.
     
  7. max1120

    max1120 seeker

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    Some Christians...some religions are very much afraid of science. Just look at what the Roman Catholic Church did to Galileo.
     
  8. Smidlee

    Smidlee Veteran Supporter

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    The Catholic Church and Galileo was buddies. Just like Bush and McCain are pals yet ran against each other in 1999. While I'm not a fan of the Catholic church it's misleading to claim they were against science in Galileo's day.
     
  9. max1120

    max1120 seeker

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    No, the Roman Catholic Church put Galileo on trial before the inquisition. The Roman Catholic Church was upset because Galileo was advocating that the earth moved around the sun and that the sun was the center of the solar system. This is referred to as heliocentricism. No credible scientist today will debate that fact. However at the time of his trial the Roman Catholic Church used Psalms 93:1, Psalms 96:10,Psalms 104:5, Ecclesiastes 1:5 and 1 Chronicles 16:30, as there "proof" that the earth was the center of the solar system and that the earth never moved. No one today believes this even the Roman Catholic Church knows it is not true. But they have never (as far as I am aware) issued an apology. We see the Roman Catholic Church today doing the same sort of thing with embryonic stem cell research. They have opposed science every step of the way for centuries. They do not seem to be willing to change now either.
     
  10. max1120

    max1120 seeker

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    By the way when Galileo was put on trial by inquisition, he was found guilty. The Roman Catholic Church had him put in prison (later he was released from prison but kept under house arrest). His works were forbidden to be published..banned!. This included any future works he may try to publish. He was ordered by the Roman Catholic Church to renounce his own work under oath. In other words they wanted him to say it was untrue what he had said about the sun being the center of the universe. He did not comply with there demands. Three cheers for Galileo!!!

    If it were up to the Roman Catholic Church we would still be living in the dark ages.
     
  11. Smidlee

    Smidlee Veteran Supporter

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    It had more to do with politics of his day then science. Catholics was not anti-science like some want to believe. It the same with the "flat earth" myth.
     
  12. max1120

    max1120 seeker

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    Smidle, of course it did...it did have more to do with politics of the time rather than science. That is the point the Roman Catholic Church has always used its opposition to scientific progress to meet its political ends. They still do this they attempt at every turn to oppose science in ways they feel will politically benefit them.
     
  13. Smidlee

    Smidlee Veteran Supporter

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    Hmmm... Does the Catholic church have anything to do with global warming issue which is also more political than scientific? As Solomon wrote there is nothing new under the sun.
     
  14. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member

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    This is typical of the prejudice we constantly find in the field of pseudo-science.

    I am educated as a scientist, and an officially certified expert in my field. I am also well known as a rational thinker. And I am a creationist.

    In addressing the false claims of evolutionists, I find that, when confronted in the absence of their peers, almost every recognized expert will admit that those portions of evolutionary "proof" that lie within their own field of expertise are actually not correct. It is acceptable to admit that some of the supposed "proofs" of evolution are not actually correct as long as you do not blaspheme their sacrament, evolution itself.

    But when we put together all these individual recognitions that the supposed "proofs" are not actually correct, we find that EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM is admitted to be incorrect by the most recognized experts in the specific fields involved.
     
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  15. shernren

    shernren you are not reading this.

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    I'd like to see you try accomplishing this over in OT some day. I wouldn't mind being shown that evolution is wrong - if that's the truth.
     
  16. RobertByers

    RobertByers Regular Member

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    AMEN
    I am not educated like you but always find in my studies how poorly thought thru and poorly evidenced the claims of evolution and company are.
    They constantly reveal how everything is based on minor data collecting and major speculation.
    Evolution, as is, will come crashing down under pressure from more intelligent people entering these fields. they will undercut their teachers.
    this is why creationists must histle to be in on the kill. Otherwise they will just revamp everything. I suspect ID'ers are the future. They will reject Darwinian evolution but pick up something more plausible.

    A great aid to fight evolution, as is, is to just explain what it is. the public who accept evolution think its from complex well documented inner abilities of biology. to show them that complexity in biology is claimed to be from mutation and selection would astonish them.
    Creationists need only show evolution in its claims.
     
  17. vossler

    vossler Senior Veteran

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    I couldn't agree more! :thumbsup:
    Exactly, education is what people need. Most already know that evolution (common descent) doesn't even sound plausible but because they've been told for years by the scientific elite that evolution is not only a theory but that it is a proven fact. Nothing could be farther from the truth!
     
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  18. Matthewj1985

    Matthewj1985 New Member

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    I have been going back and forth with a microbiologist who holds a PhD and runs his own lab. He has many papers to his name and thinks that the young earth creationist are either dishonest or ignorant. He has yet to admit any of the "proof" in his field is "false". What is your education in? Also would you mind linking a few papers you have written? I would just like to get a sense of who you are and what you have a background in.
     
  19. Matthewj1985

    Matthewj1985 New Member

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    I hope that this happens. I would love to see our current understanding of science turned on it's head. Of course to do this it is going to take actual research instead of building museums. If ID was even remotely plausible don't you think there would be research papers published citing the evidence? The simple fact is that there is not a SINGLE pro-ID paper that has stood up to the peer-review process. Before you try and tell me the reason for that is that science is trying to keep ID in the dark please go read about the peer review process. A reviewer can't just reject a paper because he doesn't like subject, he or she actually has to give reasoning for why the paper is incorrect.

    The ID movement has been around for hundreds of years and has nothing to show for it. Again, I would love it if they could actually play ball on the same level as legitimate science but the numbers don't lie, there are 0 peer reviewed papers. Also I have yet to hear any claims against evolution that actually hold water.
     
  20. Matthewj1985

    Matthewj1985 New Member

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    Does it sound plausible that your car runs by a series of explosions? Or how about the fact that your wedding ring was created in a star? Just because it sounds insane doesn't make it false. Science can explain exactly how the 2 above examples function and for those willing to do the research, can explain the mechanism of evolution based on imperial evidence and fact.
     
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