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The Bible calls homosexual activity wrong, but . . .

Discussion in 'Archived - Ethics & Morality' started by Washington, Apr 27, 2008.

  1. True_Blue

    True_Blue Non-denominational, literalist YEC Christian

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    I've only ever seen one study on average lesbian life expectancies, and it was shockingly low, somewhere around 44-45. The survey itself had clear flaws, but no university, government, or similar institution has taken itself to measure lesbian life expectancies and fill the gap in human knowledge. I think people are afraid to peer into this realm of study out of fear of what they might find.

    I'm happy that you're currently healthy, lighthorseman, and I hope you remain that way.
     
  2. icedtea

    icedtea New Member Supporter

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    If heterosexual sex results in injury, I think one is doing it wrong...
     
  3. True_Blue

    True_Blue Non-denominational, literalist YEC Christian

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    There are lots of meanings for the word "love." The agape kind of love, the self-sacrificial, unconditional kind of love, is love in conformity with God's character. Two homosexuals can't love each other in the agape way as long as they are engaging in sexual behavior with each other.
     
  4. FaithLikeARock

    FaithLikeARock Let the human mind loose.

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    How do you know?
     
  5. PetersKeys

    PetersKeys Traditionalist Catholic , Paleo-conservative

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    There is great harm in homosexual acts. You may say "well its just sex , how can it hurt". There are many factors both physical and spiritual. First the homosexual community has a very high suicide rate, which shows there is great post-coital depression in gay couples. The worst is what it does to the state of your soul, which puts you in a state of mortal sin and denial. Lastly the per captia percentage of AIDS and other STDS in the gay community has a much higher per captia rate than heterosexuals. Meaning if you are gay you have greatly a higher risk of a lower life span. I believe the average life of a homosexual is a little over 40 years old. Lastly the sex in itself is dangerous, since the colon was designed to expel waste and has a very thin walls that are not designed to have things inserted against it. There is always risks of things like fissures, perforation, and infection due to contact with bacteria like e-coli and salmenella.
     
  6. LightHorseman

    LightHorseman New Member Supporter

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    I'm a straight male, FYI, but I've seen a great deal of studies that clearly show lesbian sex reports in the lowest rate of disease transmission and activity related trauma of any of the various sexual orientations out there.

    Something like this:
    Homosexuals have the highest rate of STD transmission,
    Heterosexuals have the highest rates of activity related trauma and injury
    Lesbians have virtually zero incidence of either.
     
  7. LightHorseman

    LightHorseman New Member Supporter

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    Couldn't the same be said for homosexual sex?

    You might be surprised to look up sex related trauma.

    Don't even get me started on the hideous injurioes you can get from natural childbirth
     
  8. icedtea

    icedtea New Member Supporter

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    Where to begin?High suicicde rate can be explained by societal disapproval.
    Where did you get the statistics of more gays have aids than straights? Not Africa?
    A little over 40 years old? Quentin Crisp disagrees.
     
  9. True_Blue

    True_Blue Non-denominational, literalist YEC Christian

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    Interestingly, I've heard lesbians have sex only once every 30 days on average, far less than heterosexual couples, so no, I don't think that lesbianism involves more sex. This is just one more reason I believe married, heterosexual relationships are vastly superior to lesbianism. My two daughters bearing the genes of both my wife and I are another huge superiority. No homosexual couple can see each other in the eyes of their children. Instead, all they see are their own genes + plus some third party, or the complete absence of their own genes. Homosexuality is inherently inferior to heterosexuality in every way.
     
  10. LightHorseman

    LightHorseman New Member Supporter

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    I know a lot of homosexuals who will disagree with you. What makes you so sure that their fully commited, long term romantic love isn't the same as the sort heterosexuals feel? It sure looks the same... I mean, mutually supporting relationships with long term commitment... how is that not love?
     
  11. icedtea

    icedtea New Member Supporter

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    Not if theres photos I won't look it up!
    Yes, I was one of the lucky ones who gave birth safely.:sorry:
     
  12. LightHorseman

    LightHorseman New Member Supporter

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    citation needed dude...

    Prove that suicide rates amongst homosexuals is due to "post coital depression", and not, for example, because of constant vilification and condemnation by society?
     
  13. True_Blue

    True_Blue Non-denominational, literalist YEC Christian

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    You're right--it's a sin to look at a woman lustfully (unless she's your wife, of course). God looks into our minds and sees our thoughts and our intentions. Society requires evidence, and can't practically punish thoughts as crimes unless the thoughts are expressed in the physical world by an actus reus.
     
  14. LightHorseman

    LightHorseman New Member Supporter

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    Lesbianism is inferior because they don't have sex as much?
     
  15. LightHorseman

    LightHorseman New Member Supporter

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    Oh Gawd, more "thought police for Jesus"
     
  16. LightHorseman

    LightHorseman New Member Supporter

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    Well even without photos, its an interesting subject. I did a case study on it during my A&E prac... its a LOT more common than you'd think... but just like ANY physical activity there are associated risks.
     
  17. True_Blue

    True_Blue Non-denominational, literalist YEC Christian

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    Yes. And many other reasons.
     
  18. beechy

    beechy Senior Veteran

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    Heterosexuals are vastly superior to lesbians because they have more sex??? Never heard this argument before. So gay men are inferior because they have too much sex. And lesbian women are inferior because they don't have enough.

    My cousin was adopted as an infant by my aunt and uncle who love him to BITS. Are you saying they love him less than they would if they could "see each other in [his] eyes"? Would you would love your adopted children less than your biological ones? Or are you saying you would never consider adopting because this would result in an inferior family?
     
    icedtea likes this.
  19. beechy

    beechy Senior Veteran

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    But you said the Bible (not civil law) only prohibits actus reus.
     
  20. Maren

    Maren Veteran

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    Except he wasn't trying to claim that man is a dolphin, rather he was countering your claim of "unnatural". He was simply showing that since it is common in nature, it cannot be unnatural.

    See, here you seem to prove his point for him. Since the do what is "natural" rather than acting consciously, homosexuality is a natural occurrence.

    So you claim but much of what you claim appears to be absurd.

    But preferences or prevalence have nothing to do with what is natural. If prevalence determined what is natural, both blond hair and blue eyes would be "unnatural" since both occur less frequently than homosexuality.

    As for Romans 1, where most Christians get this idea of "unnatural", there are two problems. First, the chapter is talking about what occurred with those who rejected God. The homosexual acts occur after these people rejected God, they do not appear to be homosexual prior to that. Which plays into the second point: this word is used to talk about what is natural for the person (not for all people). Paul uses it in later writing when he talks about God going against his nature (I think you would agree that God wouldn't go against nature, like you are wanting to use the word against homosexuals).

    So, it would appear those people in Romans 1 were heterosexual who had homosexual sex -- something common in some Greek Pagan rites, which fits in with the idea that these people rejected God and replaced him with idols.

    And heterosexual sex can (and does) cause damage in women. So does this mean heterosexual sex is sinful as well?

    Again, just like heterosexual sex can. Though, I notice you are only talking of anal sex, something lesbians don't practice. So does this mean lesbianism is okay?

    Proof? In fact, pretty much all the evidence here (aside from your interpretation of the Bible) goes against you.

    So, since lesbians in a committed relationship (see lesbian bed death) likely have less sex than heterosexuals, does this mean they are even more righteous?

    Aesthetic practices used to be inherent to most Christians but now they have fallen to the wayside, sadly.

    Ideally people only have sex for procreation though 1 Corinthians 7 allows it also to ward off sin and temptation thereof. However, being that homosexuality is naturally a sin that cannot be used as an excuse for practice of even a monogamous homosexual relationship. [/quote]

    So basically, God expects homosexuals to have more sexual control than heterosexuals?

    Except you have zero evidence of this. The Bible doesn't support this view (other than a using a questionable interpretation of Romans 1). And every major medical and psychiatric organization disagrees with you on this one. Not to mention, even using statistics from the various ex-gay organizations, the vast majority of homosexuals cannot change their sexual orientation.

    If just being homosexual is "unnatural" like you claim, should not a majority (if not all) be able to "cure" homosexuality through the help of these Christian organizations? Yet for some reason, even using unverified statistics provided but the ex-gay groups, less than 20% can actually change. And if you use the claims of someone that actually tried doing a scientific study, one touted by the ex-gay groups, only 3% of homosexuals are capable of changing their orientation.

    Do you have any evidence for that at all?

    It sounds like you are trying to claim the lawless days of the "wild wild west" were more moral (despite the prevalence of prostitutes and murders) than today. I'm sorry, the way we treated minorities (including the Italians, Irish, Blacks, etc.) makes it hard to claim those days were "moral". In fact, it would be fairly easy to show that "morality" in the "good old days" had less to do with morality and more to do with being part of the majority.

    And this plays into what I just said. In fact, this is why the arguments made against homosexuality today mirror, almost exactly, the arguments made against minorities historically. The idea isn't "moral", it's "they aren't like us".

    Except that there is no evidence that homosexuality harms the person -- except your belief that they will be judged by God for it after they die.

    So why did you make those claims if they are irrelevant? :scratch:

    Which just brings us back to an argument of what is moral. And there are lots of Christians who disagree with your claims of what is moral, not to mention the non-Christians.

    But as has been said numerous times on this thread, just because something was "intended" does not make unintended results bad.

    So you claim, but this is not even a universal belief among Christians.

    Except there are many (possibly even most) that find that abusing animals is directly harmful to society -- at least in part because it often is a precursor to abusing people. And that by teaching people that abuse of any sort is wrong when they are doing it to animals keeps these people from abusing people. And that is just one of the arguments.

    As for "wrath", I think you'd have a hard time making an argument that it is always immoral, unless you are wanting to claim that God has acted immorally. In some cases, it even seems like the sentences given by the law are a form of wrath.

    At least according to you. Then again, I can remember fundamentalists here quoting the statement about how "fundamentalists have the best sex" -- which seems to be contrary to what you are claiming Christians believe.

    If you had limited it to a belief that is primarily limited to the tenets of the Catholic church, I might agree, but most Protestant denominations do not agree with this idea.

    I'll agree. Yet I have seen little evidence that it is a problem in homosexual relationships. In fact, as linked earlier, it definitely is not a problem in lesbian relationships.

    Yet what does this have to do with the OP?

    And here we get to the truth... it is not "natural" to you. In the same way heterosexual sex is not "natural" to a homosexual. But you are trying to make it so everyone has to live by what you feel is right and "natural".

    So you appear to accept you have no evidence for your claims, and that reality contradicts your claims.
     
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