The appendix evolved at least 18 times? Yeah, right

ChetSinger

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I think one evidence of God's design is that the same biological features have supposedly originated independently in separate branches of the evolutionary tree.

And now, in a recent paper, with the title "Multiple independent appearances of the cecal appendix in mammalian evolution and an investigation of related ecological and anatomical factors", the authors posit that the appendix evolved at least 30 different times.

Well, maybe not 30 times. A dissenter believes the number may be as low as 18 times.

Evolved 18 separate times? Doesn't that defy belief? More like designed once and re-used, just as a computer programmer designs some useful code and deploys it wherever useful.

I think such things are clear evidence of God's design, and are useful arguments when evangelizing. Here's a link with more about it:

Appendix shrieks ‘Creation’ (at least 18 times!)
 

ChristianT

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I think one evidence of God's design is that the same biological features have supposedly originated independently in separate branches of the evolutionary tree.

And now, in a recent paper, with the title "Multiple independent appearances of the cecal appendix in mammalian evolution and an investigation of related ecological and anatomical factors", the authors posit that the appendix evolved at least 30 different times.

Well, maybe not 30 times. A dissenter believes the number may be as low as 18 times.

Evolved 18 separate times? Doesn't that defy belief? More like designed once and re-used, just as a computer programmer designs some useful code and deploys it wherever useful.

I think such things are clear evidence of God's design, and are useful arguments when evangelizing. Here's a link with more about it:

Appendix shrieks ‘Creation’ (at least 18 times!)

Even more like "Designed once, included, never removed, adapted where necessary." Hence...evolution.

After all, in the model, a common ancestor would have included the necessary parts and functions to create more complex structures which would then be included in the genome of posterior generations.
 
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Fascinated With God

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Eyes or some form of photo-receptor is said to have evolved 8 to 12 times independently, and in that example it is clear that there is virtually no reuse between our eyes and invertebrate eyes. There was some reuse among invertebrates, but only squid and octopus have eyes as sophisticated as our own.

Now the genetic evidence does suggest there was a common ancestor between us and shellfish that had some kind of photo-receptor, but probably in only the most primitive of forms. One of the regulator genes for eye development exists in both vertebrates and invertebrates with eyes. So there was a very small amount of reuse.
 
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SkyWriting

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Evolved 18 separate times? Doesn't that defy belief? More like designed once and re-used, just as a computer programmer designs some useful code and deploys it wherever useful.

It does lead one away from the random mutation concept and toward a guided evolutionary concept.
The theory of evolution is as malleable as play-dough and can never be disputed because it absorbs
any garbage you throw at it.
 
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Assyrian

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It does lead one away from the random mutation concept and toward a guided evolutionary concept.
Or random mutation and the natural selection of advantageous traits. If the lymphatic tissue in that area of the gut produces colonies of the best mix of bacteria for the gut, then any mutation changing the shape of the gut that will protect the colony during attack by stomach bug will be selected. Further mutations that increase the size of that pocket so that it is large enough to recolonise the gut rapidly after an infection will also be advantageous and be selected. Result is structures like the appendix forming in different species in the same area where the lymphatic tissue is found. It is the same convergent evolution we see where dolphins develop the same shape as sharks.

The theory of evolution is as malleable as play-dough and can never be disputed because it absorbs
any garbage you throw at it.
By malleable as play dough you mean every example thrown at it from the natural world fits it? Isn't that what you would expect from the real explanation?
 
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ChetSinger

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It does lead one away from the random mutation concept and toward a guided evolutionary concept.
Yeah, at least.

The theory of evolution is as malleable as play-dough and can never be disputed because it absorbs any garbage you throw at it.
I've seen that numerous times. They'll tell a story and figure it'll be taken as the result of scientific research. And it often is. If the Lord tarries, maybe something like Project ENCODE will actually map out all the portions of our genome that construct the appendix. I wonder what story will be told then to describe how all that came about between 18 to 30 separate times.
 
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Fascinated With God

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I wonder what story will be told then to describe how all that came about between 18 to 30 separate times.
The same story that is told about how eyes developed independently 8 to 11 separate times. And it will probably prove to be even more diverse than eye evolution since there are a greater variety of ways of for an appendix to enhance the immune system than for an eye to operate.

So in the end it will probably turn out that the appendix is a weaker case of convergent evolution than eyes.
 
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SkyWriting

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The same story that is told about how eyes developed independently 8 to 11 separate times. And it will probably prove to be even more diverse than eye evolution since there are a greater variety of ways of for an appendix to enhance the immune system than for an eye to operate. So in the end it will probably turn out that the appendix is a weaker case of convergent evolution than eyes.

Any such paralell evolution theories make a stronger case for intelligent design than their intended goal of reducing it.
 
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SkyWriting

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I think it's just that some people think if you're not a YEC or in some "liberal" circles, OEC, then you don't believe in Intelligent Design.

I can only comment on what people write such as:
" I wonder what story will be told then to describe how all that came about between 18 to 30 separate times."

And my response is, that this points to intelligent design. :)
Nobody really knows about history unless they were there,
and that gets fuzzy as well.
 
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Fascinated With God

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The fact that they evolved separately does not prove that God played a direct role, God can operate indirectly through Chaos Theory, a branch of mathematics that proves that there is no such thing as pure randomness, everything is ordered, no matter how chaotic it appears.

God permeates the universe at an abstract mathematical level, as well as a physical one, so He does not need to soil His hands with such menial labor as designing body parts for all primitive animals. I see this point of view as God as a primitive farmer, vs. God as a cosmic genetic engineer. The latter seems much more elevated and refined as opposed to the former view which seems crude and primitive to me.
 
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Gxg (G²)

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I think one evidence of God's design is that the same biological features have supposedly originated independently in separate branches of the evolutionary tree.

And now, in a recent paper, with the title "Multiple independent appearances of the cecal appendix in mammalian evolution and an investigation of related ecological and anatomical factors", the authors posit that the appendix evolved at least 30 different times.

Well, maybe not 30 times. A dissenter believes the number may be as low as 18 times.

Evolved 18 separate times? Doesn't that defy belief? More like designed once and re-used, just as a computer programmer designs some useful code and deploys it wherever useful.

I think such things are clear evidence of God's design, and are useful arguments when evangelizing. Here's a link with more about it:

Appendix shrieks ‘Creation’ (at least 18 times!)
Good way of explaining the situation :)
 
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Smidlee

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When they claim something evolved 18 times they really mean there are 18 examples of similarities that doesn't fit their tree. You see similarities are result of common descent except those similarities that are not.(notice how "A" and "not-A" easily fits the theory) The idea that the appendix evolved 18 times is totally based upon a mythological tree of life that so far seems only exist in text books. In reality life doesn't come close in fitting into man's opinions and theories. Of course it hard for man to admit this because of the pride.
 
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Gxg (G²)

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When they claim something evolved 18 times they really mean there are 18 examples of similarities that doesn't fit their tree. You see similarities are result of common descent except those similarities that are not.(notice how "A" and "not-A" easily fits the theory) The idea that the appendix evolved 18 times is totally based upon a mythological tree of life that so far seems only exist in text books. In reality life doesn't come close in fitting into man's opinions and theories. Of course it hard for man to admit because of the pride.
Interesting...
 
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SkyWriting

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I think it's just that some people think if you're not a YEC or in some "liberal" circles, OEC, then you don't believe in Intelligent Design.

I have no idea who ID people circulate with.
They could be Rat-Fink Communists for all I know.
 
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