The Administration Of Tongues

[emekrus]

“Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.” 1 Corinthians 12:4-5

In my early stage of Christianity, the gift of Tongues is one gift that I benefited allots from; yet I encountered several bashing concerning it from so many folks. Most of which, were those who had been in the race, years before me…

But somehow, I seemed to take every other corrections, except giving up on speaking in tongues: both in privacy and in public. Then as I continued relentlessly and doggedly till now, the gift of Tongues have become one of my most profitable spiritual gifts.

By the administration of the gift of tongues (personally), I can now pray for over an hour without vain repetitions. By its administration, when I’m faced with some stubborn temptations, as I open my mouth, in faith, I get instant deliverance from the Holy Spirit…

Along the above line of deliverance from stubborn temptations, a few months ago, I was attacked by a very strong spirit of lust towards a lady, I was prospecting to marry. Then as I struggled on my own, the Holy Spirit gave me a word; and as I got the word, immediately, I got up and started speaking violently in other tongues…

And presently, I felt the power of God move on my heart and cleansed the lustful feeling. And by the next time I saw the lady in question, she was like every other person to me. The lustful feeling I had towards her totally disappeared…

More so, when I’m tempted with depression, as I open my mouth, speaking in other tongues, within a few minutes, my Joy of salvation is miraculously restored. By the manifestation of the gift of tongues, as I open my mouth to interpret by faith, I get some specific messages from God.

By the manifestation of the gift of tongues, a few weeks ago, as my neighbor overhead me praying in other tongues, she placed her hand in the spot where she had pain, then by daybreak, the pain was totally gone.

A few weeks back, as I prayed in other tongues and in understanding for my friend who was sick, I got a leading of the Holy Spirit to call him over the phone and pray for him for instant healing. As I did, presently, the power of God fell on him, and the medication he was to take, he left it and by daybreak, he was totally healed.

I can go on and on, sharing all the miracles I have personally encountered by simply opening my mouth in faith to speak in other tongues. Yet so many folks in Christendom miss out on the blessings of God, accessible to them through speaking and praying in other tongues due to unbelief and religious brain-washing…

Hence, this sermon seeks to point out, scripturally, the correct administration of this awesome gift, for personal edification.

What Then Is The Gift Of Tongues For?

1. Self-Edification- 1 Corinthians 14:2: It is for receiving comforting ministrations or messages from the Holy Spirit. Then it also means, receiving self-lifting, divine help from God in your Spirit.

2. It is For Charging Up Your Faith- Jude 1:20. Which is to say, when you are faced with an issue, and you’re tempted with unbelief or fear, you clear them off instantly by speaking in other tongues.

As you speak in other tongues, when you’re confronted with a situation, fear, unbelief, personal beliefs, are instantly replaced with a Holy Faith (God’s kind of Faith). Then along the same line, you can also apply tongues for stirring up the other spiritual gifts in you. For instance, Tongues can stir-up prophecy (through the interpretations). It can stir up the gift of healing and the rests… all of which, manifest by faith.

You know, the Apostle Paul in the book of 2 Timothy 1:6; charges us to stir up the gifts of God in us. And one of the easiest ways to do that, is to be speaking more and more in other tongues, just like the Apostle Paul did (1 Corinthians 14:18)

3. Tongues Is For Prayers- Romans 8:26; “Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.”

Now with the gift of tongues, which is powered by the Holy Spirit himself, we can pray more effectively, with better results… and much, much, more. So forbid not to speak in other tongues… (1 Corinthians 14:39).


For more teaching on the administration of Tongues, get Kenneth E. Hagin Book: “Tongues: Beyond the Upper Room

".

 

[Wgw]

The gift of tongues is the spontaneous ability to speak in a real language for purposes of edification of evangelism. For example, I know of an Australian who joined an Egyptian monastery and was able to communicate with a non Anglophone monk who only spoke Arabic.

But praying in a lanugae unknown to you is dangerous; you might inadvertantly curse the Lord.

St. Paul did stress that tongues were the least signifigant of the spiritual gifts, and while clearly this gift is still granted, it is granted for practical reasons only and should not be confused with glossolalia or mediumship.

 

[Hillsage]

The gift of tongues is the spontaneous ability to speak in a real language for purposes of edification of evangelism. For example, I know of an Australian who joined an Egyptian monastery and was able to communicate with a non Anglophone monk who only spoke Arabic.

I believe there is a difference in (1) me/us speaking to God and (2) God speaking to me/us…don’t you?

(1) That’s why God gave ‘our spirit’ a ‘prayer tongue…to have a spirit language to talk to Him spirit to Spirit.

That's also why we have a soul language to talk to Him in English/whatever, and, we also have body language enabling us to speak to Him in ‘sign’ by kneeling, raising hands, dance, ect. as the bible mandates.

(2) But, God also, by His Holy Spirit, has the ability to communicate Himself in speaking to us/church. He gave us nine manifestations for the edification of the church and the world. Several manifestations include language and SPEAKING. And in manifesting these giftings we must once again voluntarily yield ourselves. But this time we are yielding to the Holy Spirit’s will/unctioning/gifting/manifesting.

Scripture uses and describes three different tongues and three different purposes for them. Until one is able to see these three differences at the surface level, they will have great difficulty plumbing their depths in scripture because of the confusing array of undifferentiated tongue ‘verses’. Scripture ‘verses’ which are biblically lumped under that one, all-inclusive category of ‘TONGUES’. And the bile chapter that is of particular difficulty is found in 1Cor. 14. That leaves it up to us to ‘rightly divide the word of truth’ when determining ‘which tongue’ scripture is specifically talking about.

But praying in a lanugae unknown to you is dangerous; you might inadvertantly curse the Lord.

Not dangerous according to scripture. As a matter of fact it seems you can't even really call him Lord unless you can do so by the supernatural tongue of YOUR holy spirit, according to EW Bullinger in his book Word Studies on the Holy Spirit. A book that is still in print....after a hundred years. His work states that Holy Spirit shouldn't have been capitalized over 50 times by translators, who never spoke in tongues and can't even truly relate experientially to this interpret this verse correctly.

1 Corinthians 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Even the 1611 KJV stumbled and interpreted it as "holy Spirit".

St. Paul did stress that tongues were the least signifigant of the spiritual gifts, and while clearly this gift is still granted, it is granted for practical reasons only and should not be confused with glossolalia or mediumship.

It truly saddens me that those who don't have the 'least of the gifts' seem to believe they can walk in those gifts that are greater. My experience was different. And my observation of the spiritual body of Christ seems to confirm that observation. You don't bypass humbling yourself to the lowest and expect God to give you the highest.

In summary;

THREE TONGUES AND THREE PURPOSES
(1) Prayer tongues. From our spirit to God For Self edification
(2) Tongues with interpretation. From God’s Spirit to us For Church edification
(3) Tongues without interpretation. From God’s Spirit to us For World edification

 

[timewerx]

The gift of tongues is the spontaneous ability to speak in a real language for purposes of edification of evangelism. For example, I know of an Australian who joined an Egyptian monastery and was able to communicate with a non Anglophone monk who only spoke Arabic.

But praying in a lanugae unknown to you is dangerous; you might inadvertantly curse the Lord.

St. Paul did stress that tongues were the least signifigant of the spiritual gifts, and while clearly this gift is still granted, it is granted for practical reasons only and should not be confused with glossolalia or mediumship.

I agree with this.

The Bible urges us to test the Spirits through sound questioning (well, not always literally)... If you can't understand
its language (or nobody else does) then you cannot test the spirit if it's evil and more likely it's gonna be evil.

The Holy Spirit will always give us an opportunity to test it in different forms and it always involve sound reasoning. Good feelings or good vibes isn't one of those!


Miraculous healings can be random... ...It doesn't prove anything apart the fact it happens... What it cannot prove is whether or not, you are a Christian or that spirit is good or evil...

I have experienced miraculous healings **without prayers** and without anyone else laying hands, nor praying for me.

I completely heal from flu from the time I caught it from someone sick, usually more than one person in just 3 hours with only mild symptoms...Again, no prayers, no medicines, nothing. My urine smells like strong anti-bacterial fluid during that time though..

I never skipped work due to a sick leave since I became a Christian last 2012. I'm not a prayerful person and I don't even pray for good health. In fact, I rarely prayed for myself.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

looks like your tongue is an intercessory gift speaking the language of your heart before you learned the language of your parents. I recall a passage in 1st corinthians 14 that helped me, that we should pray to interpret our tongue, the basis of spiritual gifts is to build up ourselves, others, and God's kingdom.

 

[Wgw]

I agree with this.

The Bible urges us to test the Spirits through sound questioning (well, not always literally)... If you can't understand
its language (or nobody else does) then you cannot test the spirit if it's evil and more likely it's gonna be evil.

The Holy Spirit will always give us an opportunity to test it in different forms and it always involve sound reasoning. Good feelings or good vibes isn't one of those!


Miraculous healings can be random... ...It doesn't prove anything apart the fact it happens... What it cannot prove is whether or not, you are a Christian or that spirit is good or evil...

I have experienced miraculous healings **without prayers** and without anyone else laying hands, nor praying for me.

I completely heal from flu from the time I caught it from someone sick, usually more than one person in just 3 hours with only mild symptoms...Again, no prayers, no medicines, nothing. My urine smells like strong anti-bacterial fluid during that time though..

I never skipped work due to a sick leave since I became a Christian last 2012. I'm not a prayerful person and I don't even pray for good health. In fact, I rarely prayed for myself.

I should warn you, in the Orthodox tradition we believe demons can and as a matter of course do grant false spiritual gifts in order to deceive people, leading them into spiritual delusion. This is why we are obliged to confess all spiritual experiences to a priest; the priest in turn tests it against sacred scripture and holy tradition. One common demonic pattern is strange sickness/sudden healing.

 

[Wgw]

I believe there is a difference in (1) me/us speaking to God and (2) God speaking to me/us…don’t you?

(1) That’s why God gave ‘our spirit’ a ‘prayer tongue…to have a spirit language to talk to Him spirit to Spirit.

That's also why we have a soul language to talk to Him in English/whatever, and, we also have body language enabling us to speak to Him in ‘sign’ by kneeling, raising hands, dance, ect. as the bible mandates.

(2) But, God also, by His Holy Spirit, has the ability to communicate Himself in speaking to us/church. He gave us nine manifestations for the edification of the church and the world. Several manifestations include language and SPEAKING. And in manifesting these giftings we must once again voluntarily yield ourselves. But this time we are yielding to the Holy Spirit’s will/unctioning/gifting/manifesting.

Scripture uses and describes three different tongues and three different purposes for them. Until one is able to see these three differences at the surface level, they will have great difficulty plumbing their depths in scripture because of the confusing array of undifferentiated tongue ‘verses’. Scripture ‘verses’ which are biblically lumped under that one, all-inclusive category of ‘TONGUES’. And the bile chapter that is of particular difficulty is found in 1Cor. 14. That leaves it up to us to ‘rightly divide the word of truth’ when determining ‘which tongue’ scripture is specifically talking about.


Not dangerous according to scripture. As a matter of fact it seems you can't even really call him Lord unless you can do so by the supernatural tongue of YOUR holy spirit, according to EW Bullinger in his book Word Studies on the Holy Spirit. A book that is still in print....after a hundred years. His work states that Holy Spirit shouldn't have been capitalized over 50 times by translators, who never spoke in tongues and can't even truly relate experientially to this interpret this verse correctly.

1 Corinthians 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Even the 1611 KJV stumbled and interpreted it as "holy Spirit".

It truly saddens me that those who don't have the 'least of the gifts' seem to believe they can walk in those gifts that are greater. My experience was different. And my observation of the spiritual body of Christ seems to confirm that observation. You don't bypass humbling yourself to the lowest and expect God to give you the highest.

In summary;

THREE TONGUES AND THREE PURPOSES
(1) Prayer tongues. From our spirit to God For Self edification
(2) Tongues with interpretation. From God’s Spirit to us For Church edification
(3) Tongues without interpretation. From God’s Spirit to us For World edification

I am sorry but I cannot agree even remotely with what you are saying.

If what you say is true then why are all of the ancient liturgical texts from the 1st-4th century that have come down to us, like the Didache, the Anaphora of Hippolytus, the Liturgy of Addai and Mari, the Liturgy of St. Mark, the Liturgy of St. James, the Anaphora of the Twelve Apostles, the Euchologion of Serapion of Thmuis, and the Hallowing of Theodore of Mopsuestia, and the two Anaphorae and other services in the late fourth century "Apostolic traditions," all entirely in Koine Greek or another vernacular tongue? Of these, if memory serves, only the Didache even mentions tongues, but not in a worship context.

 

[Hillsage]

I am sorry but I cannot agree even remotely with what you are saying.

If what you say is true then why are all of the ancient liturgical texts from the 1st-4th century that have come down to us, like the Didache, the Anaphora of Hippolytus, the Liturgy of Addai and Mari, the Liturgy of St. Mark, the Liturgy of St. James, the Anaphora of the Twelve Apostles, the Euchologion of Serapion of Thmuis, and the Hallowing of Theodore of Mopsuestia, and the two Anaphorae and other services in the late fourth century "Apostolic traditions," all entirely in Koine Greek or another vernacular tongue? Of these, if memory serves, only the Didache even mentions tongues, but not in a worship context.

I don't really know what you are disagreeing with. What you quoted of mine and your response in rebuttal isn't even talking apples to apples IMO. Of course all those 'books of man' which you listed were written in the 'vernacular'. Why wouldn't they be? So, I'm thinking you don't remotely agree because you don't even remotely understand what I said. I don't mean that as a 'put down', just an observational opinion on my part.

Maybe you could just back up and answer the first question of my quote in your last post. Do you believe there's a, directional difference, between your speaking to God and God speaking to you? And I'll assume the answer is yes. If that is so, then what language do you think your spirit might pray in, as opposed to your English speaking soul? Let's just start there.

Would your spirit speak English, or any other language of 'earthly men', or would it speak in the heavenly or spirit-ual language of God/spirit and angels/spriits. Paul mentions both.

1CO 13:1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.

Then he points out that your heavenly/spiritual language/tongue is not even understood by any man on earth. Why? Because it is NOT an earthly language.

1CO 14:2 For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.

Unfortunately, due to 'non spiritual' men interpreting...Spirit should not have been capitalized above. Why? Read Bullinger's book.

Unfortunately, if you don't rightly discern which "tongue" scripture is talking about, you will never discern the difference by lumping all "tongue" verses under your limited understanding AND application.

1CO 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

Why would your "understanding" be "unfruitful"? Because not even you, understand what your spirit is praying. Because it is a spiritual/angelic/heavenly language...and NOBODY on earth can understand it.

 

[EdwinMorales]

It amazes me all the time when I here and read certain discussions on spiritual gifts it seems that the focus is on tongues which the devil has worked so hard on because he understand that if Christians get an understanding on what God has made available to them they would be unstoppable. If we only keep the scriptures in the context that is given we can understand with the help of the Holy Spirit what God wants us to Know! With all due respect when it comes to the gifts of the Spirit do we realize that this is the milk of the word and not meat, yes baby food that we should receive as baby Christians. There are four levels of deception concerning this area of tongues: 1. Satan wants to tell you that you don't need to be saved. 2.He wants to keep you from the baptism of the Holy Spirit. 3.He'll tell you that once you have received the baptism of the Holy Spirit you can't pray in tongues any time that you want to. 4. Satan wants to distract you in anyway he can to keep you from praying in tongues. Yes tongues and the power of God being manifested in a believers life are related to each other!!!!!!! Yes if you want to flow in the power of God praying in tongues is the key.
Acts 1:8 Jesus made a statement But ye shall receive power after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you; and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
Jesus said you shall receive power after that and the phrase that he uses is come upon you. There are four basic operations of tongues:
1.Tongues for interpretation
2.Tongues as a sign for the unbeliever
3. Tongues for intercessional groanings
4.Tongues as a prayer language for a believers use.
I can explain everything and back up with scriptures to even go deeper but not every believer will accept even though it is made available to them by God Himself.

 

[timewerx]

I should warn you, in the Orthodox tradition we believe demons can and as a matter of course do grant false spiritual gifts in order to deceive people, leading them into spiritual delusion. This is why we are obliged to confess all spiritual experiences to a priest; the priest in turn tests it against sacred scripture and holy tradition. One common demonic pattern is strange sickness/sudden healing.

Again, I agree with you here.

That is actually the most correct procedure I have read here so far... ...But speaking just for myself, I don't readily trust priests unless I have tested them myself... It may sound like a paradox but then I test all my spiritual experiences myself. I found some experiences to be evil pretending to be angels, etc.

 

[Wgw]

I don't really know what you are disagreeing with. What you quoted of mine and your response in rebuttal isn't even talking apples to apples IMO. Of course all those 'books of man' which you listed were written in the 'vernacular'. Why wouldn't they be? So, I'm thinking you don't remotely agree because you don't even remotely understand what I said. I don't mean that as a 'put down', just an observational opinion on my part.

Maybe you could just back up and answer the first question of my quote in your last post. Do you believe there's a, directional difference, between your speaking to God and God speaking to you? And I'll assume the answer is yes. If that is so, then what language do you think your spirit might pray in, as opposed to your English speaking soul? Let's just start there.

Would your spirit speak English, or any other language of 'earthly men', or would it speak in the heavenly or spirit-ual language of God/spirit and angels/spriits. Paul mentions both.

1CO 13:1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.

Then he points out that your heavenly/spiritual language/tongue is not even understood by any man on earth. Why? Because it is NOT an earthly language.

1CO 14:2 For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.

Unfortunately, due to 'non spiritual' men interpreting...Spirit should not have been capitalized above. Why? Read Bullinger's book.

Unfortunately, if you don't rightly discern which "tongue" scripture is talking about, you will never discern the difference by lumping all "tongue" verses under your limited understanding AND application.

1CO 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

Why would your "understanding" be "unfruitful"? Because not even you, understand what your spirit is praying. Because it is a spiritual/angelic/heavenly language...and NOBODY on earth can understand it.

The Orthodox Church does not use tongues in liturgical worship and never has. My denomination hasnt changed our liturgy in any noticeable way since the 5th century; the last minor changes were in the 1600s, and in the wake of the Genocide against Armenians, Syriac/Assyrians and Pontic Greeks, cymbals disaappeared from the liturgy, with organs being permitted in the 1920s; these are now mercifully being phased out as they do nothing for West Syriac music (I am a huge admirer of the organ compositions of JS Bach, Herbert Howells and Healey Willan, but these work with the Roman, Lutheran and Anglican liturgical rites, and the organ just does not work well with most forms of Eastern worship). We are increasingly praying a capella, as this seems to work best in our church.

Almost all our prayers are sung or chanted in Syriac, a dialect of the Aramaic language spoken by our Lord. We "speak to God" through prayer; either written liturgical prayer or memorized sections of it like the Qawmo (basically the Trisagion and the Lord"s Prayer, with an optional Hail Mary, and the Nicene Creed at the closing Qawmo; the Qawmo begins and ends each service of daily prayer), through the prayers and petitioms of the Holy Qurbana, the Divine Liturgy (the Eucharist or "Mass"), through recitation of the Psalter, through "Arrow Prayers" of which the Jesus Prayer has become rhe most famous, and through ex tempore personal prayer as needed.

However, very few, exceptionally holy people receive the gift of prophecy and are spoken to by God. And in our tradition such incidents are usually known only to the person granted the gift and his father/confessor. For most of us, God speaks to us through the Holy Tradition of the Church: Holy Scripture, and the interpretation of it by the Fathers, and the mystical experiences of some of our monastics. Most of the time when somone thinks they have heard the voice of God, they have encountered the Devil impersonating him. Or even if in your mind you think of an aged bearded figure among the clouds; this is really Zeus or Wotan, and thus a demon, (psalm 95 v 5) as no one has seen God the Father at any time; we have seen the Second Perspn of the Trinity, the Word of God, incarnate as Jesus Christ, fully human and fully divine, and we have seen the Holy Ghost in various guises: the burning bush, the dove at the baptism of our Lord, and the tongues of fire at Pentecost.

 

[Hillsage]

The Orthodox Church does not use tongues in liturgical worship and never has. My denomination hasnt changed our liturgy in any noticeable way since the 5th century;

You've basically confirmed again what I said in my last post, which was; So, I'm thinking you don't remotely agree because you don't even remotely understand what I said. I don't mean that as a 'put down', just an observational opinion on my part. Not all tradition is good according to scripture/'commandment of God'.

MAT 15:3 He answered them, "And why do you transgress the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition?

So my position is this; if something was wrong to begin with, in the 5th century, it is no more 'right' today IMO.

However, very few, exceptionally holy people receive the gift of prophecy and are spoken to by God.

A perfect example of tradition IMO. The Greek would disagree that prophecy is a "gift" AND that prophecy is only for a 'very few'.

14:1 Make love your aim, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts (not in Greek), especially that you may prophesy.
1CO 14:5 Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy.

I grew up in the 'debatedly first', orthodox church. I was born/baptized/confirmed/bred and wed, in that church. And I never came to know Jesus as my personal savior, and that's why I no longer let the 'traditions of the church' and "commandments of men" stand as a big authority for my walk with God.

MAR 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

I do stand on scripture (as you can hopefully see) but with 'the teacher' being the one scripture told us to be taught of.

JOH 16:13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.

For most of us, God speaks to us through the Holy Tradition of the Church: Holy Scripture,

I know, as I said, and I was 'there' for many years. Hopefully what I've posted reveals why I am not there any more. I am not trying to be offensive with all I've said. But I am doing my best to be a follower of God according to that which has been revealed in scripture and by the Spirit....all in my opinion, of course.

 

[Righttruth]

In notorious Corinth church people were pretending what happened on Pentecost day! God has given the greatest gift to mankind in speaking an intelligible language. On Pentecost they were speaking a foreign language unknown to them through the utterance of the Holy Spirit. Paul only came with a tangible temporary solution and advised to seek better gifts. It ceased eventually. Only deluded people revived this in USA about one hundred years ago!

 

[Alithis]

The gift of tongues is the spontaneous ability to speak in a real language for purposes of edification of evangelism. For example, I know of an Australian who joined an Egyptian monastery and was able to communicate with a non Anglophone monk who only spoke Arabic.

But praying in a lanugae unknown to you is dangerous; you might inadvertantly curse the Lord.

St. Paul did stress that tongues were the least signifigant of the spiritual gifts, and while clearly this gift is still granted, it is granted for practical reasons only and should not be confused with glossolalia or mediumship.

the information offered here is merely opinion and i feel, quite incorrect .

 

[Imagican]

All indications in the Bible are that 'tongues' were a 'spiritual gift' offered to certain individuals which allowed someone who had NEVER learned a particular language to communicate to others regardless. Either directly or through an interpreter.
But we DO KNOW THIS: Paul laid out the RULES of tongues. No more than three in one gathering, by course, IN ORDER, and there MUST be an interpreter.
Any use of tongues in the 'church' that do NOT comply with these rules are OBVIOUSLY not offered 'as the Spirit gives utterance'. Either what I'm saying is TRUTH, or what YOU are saying is that Paul, (who openly stated that HE used tongues MORE THAN THE ENTIRE congregation), was WRONG.
Every reference to tongues in the ENTIRE Bible is in reference to LANGUAGES. The gibberish that many CALL tongues today is NOT a 'language'. It is meaningless gibberish. Or possibly WORSE, it is an attempt to emulate something contrary to the TRUTH.
Tongues are LANGUAGES.
And WHY would God need someone to make gibberish noises in order to communicate with Him? If He is GOD, He doesn't need some 'MISUNDERSTOOD' or 'non existent gibberish to KNOW what's in one's heart. We do NOT need to speak OPENLY in order to pray. If God can HEAR our voices, He can certainly hear what's IN OUR HEARTS.
And the most important statement that we have in the Bible that utterly destroys the concept of 'gibberish being tongues':
Tongues are FOR A SIGN, NOT to them that BELIEVE, but to them that BELIEVE NOT.
Now, how does one propose to 'speak in tongues' to NO ONE and it have any significant meaning? When the Bible PLAINLY states that: TONGUES ARE FOR A SIGN: not TO THEM THAT BELIEVE, but TO THEM THAT BELIEVE NOT.
Obviously this is in reference to LITERAL languages. But it certainly clears up any misunderstanding about ANYONE personally benefiting from speaking in gibberish. Unless, of course, you are claiming that you are a NON believer and somehow speaking in tongues is some sort of SIGN use to MAKE you a believer.
And I would ask anyone that is a proponent of 'speaking gibberish' to SHOW where we are to seek SELF EDIFICATION. We are to focus on what brings edification to the BODY, not SELF edification. Yet the Bible plainly reveals that speaking in tongues AGAINST the rules set down by Paul is nothing other than 'self edification'. A notion contrary to the Bible or the Body.
And so far as the opening statements of this thread, NOTHING offered by the author is Biblical. ALL that was offered is the TEACHING of 'certain churches' that encourage the practice of 'speaking in unknown tongues'. The points made are actually CONTRARY to the information we are offered in the Bible.
Is there a SINGLE person that claims to be a believer that believes we must speak with our MOUTHS in order for God to hear what we PRAY for? Or is it understood that God KNOWS what we pray without us EVERY having to open our mouths? For it would be a sad day indeed when one born without the ability to SPEAK openly, (mute), was unable to communicate with God for simply being unable to verbally SPEAK.
Blessings,
MEC

 

[Hillsage]

All indications in the Bible are that 'tongues' were a 'spiritual gift' offered to certain individuals which allowed someone who had NEVER learned a particular language to communicate to others regardless. Either directly or through an interpreter.

Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion. But our opinions differ and I backed mine with scripture refuting your opinion...IMO.

But we DO KNOW THIS: Paul laid out the RULES of tongues.

How interesting that you are worried about us breaking 'your' interpretation of the rules concerning a gift you neither have, nor even believe exists.

?Tongues are LANGUAGES.
And WHY would God need someone to make gibberish noises in order to communicate with Him?

My dear brother, don't you know that the pure language of the spirit may actually have been the one everyone spoke before the tower of Babylon. And the "gibberish" of confused tongues is the language you and every other earthly human speaks today.

If He is GOD, He doesn't need some 'MISUNDERSTOOD' or 'non existent gibberish to KNOW what's in one's heart. We do NOT need to speak OPENLY in order to pray. If God can HEAR our voices, He can certainly hear what's IN OUR HEARTS.

Well, first off I'm sure He IS God. And maybe what's in your "heart" is "deceitful and desperately wicked", so he'd rather hear the pure prayer of your spirit, which kinda lines up with scripture IMO.

1CO 2:11 For what person knows a man's thoughts except the spirit of the man which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.

Now, how does one propose to 'speak in tongues' to NO ONE and it have any significant meaning? When the Bible PLAINLY states that: TONGUES ARE FOR A SIGN: not TO THEM THAT BELIEVE, but TO THEM THAT BELIEVE NOT.

Let me help you to understand. We don't "pray in the spirit" to NO ONE, We do so to God. And, the tongues to be manifested to you 'unbelievers' should make you want them IMO. Now, as a saved "unbeliever" and not an unsaved "outsider", read the verses below with the eyes of your spirit.

1 Corinthians 14:22 Thus, tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers, while prophecy is not for unbelievers but for believers. 23 If, therefore, the whole church assembles and all speak in tongues, and outsiders or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are mad?

Indeed are you not saying we are "mad" speaking "gibberish" and as another just commented concerning us as "deluded people". I truly hope God allows you to see and experience what we have.

BTW why would Paul even consider that the whole church could possibly all speak in tongues in the verse above if, as you believe, it wasn't even available but for a few?

Obviously this is in reference to LITERAL languages. But it certainly clears up any misunderstanding about ANYONE personally benefiting from speaking in gibberish. Unless, of course, you are claiming that you are a NON believer and somehow speaking in tongues is some sort of SIGN use to MAKE you a believer.

Hopefully this discourse will allow you to see that it is you who, though you claim to see things clearly in the mirror of your 'unbeliever' theology, must also come to the realization that in mirror the truth, 'that' which you see so clearly, is truly reflective of the 'wrong foot' of reality.

Gotta quit, time to go fellowship with a bunch of ''unbelievers at a local fundamentalist church I've been visiting.

 

[Wgw]

You've basically confirmed again what I said in my last post, which was; So, I'm thinking you don't remotely agree because you don't even remotely understand what I said. I don't mean that as a 'put down', just an observational opinion on my part. Not all tradition is good according to scripture/'commandment of God'.

MAT 15:3 He answered them, "And why do you transgress the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition?

So my position is this; if something was wrong to begin with, in the 5th century, it is no more 'right' today IMO.

A perfect example of tradition IMO. The Greek would disagree that prophecy is a "gift" AND that prophecy is only for a 'very few'.

14:1 Make love your aim, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts (not in Greek), especially that you may prophesy.
1CO 14:5 Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy.

I grew up in the 'debatedly first', orthodox church. I was born/baptized/confirmed/bred and wed, in that church. And I never came to know Jesus as my personal savior, and that's why I no longer let the 'traditions of the church' and "commandments of men" stand as a big authority for my walk with God.

MAR 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

I do stand on scripture (as you can hopefully see) but with 'the teacher' being the one scripture told us to be taught of.

JOH 16:13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.


I know, as I said, and I was 'there' for many years. Hopefully what I've posted reveals why I am not there any more. I am not trying to be offensive with all I've said. But I am doing my best to be a follower of God according to that which has been revealed in scripture and by the Spirit....all in my opinion, of course.

The traditions of the Orthodox Church can be traced back to the Apostles. The praxis has not changed noticeably since the fifth century, but our core dogmas are based on the New Testament and the interpretation of the New Testamemt by St. Clement and St. Ignatius the martyr, who was a disciple of John and died just two years after him, having been fed to lions.

The veracity of Orthodoxy is witnessed by the river of blood that flowed from the Orthodox Church, the Body of Christ, from the death of St. Stephen the Protomartyr, through the Roman Empire, the Arian Vandals and Visigoths, the Armenian/Assyrian/Pontic Greek Genocide of 1915, and indeed the earlier Islamic Caliphates, the USSR, and now the Islamic state. Our church has around one hundred million martyrs, give or take ten or twenty million. Thus I estimate for every Pentecostal alive, we can boast two who died for Orthodoxy; our churches form the second largest grouping of Christians after our Roman Catholic brethren.

 

[Wgw]

the information offered here is merely opinion and i feel, quite incorrect .

It is a factual recollection of reported mystical experiences. Look up "Coptic Father Lazarus" or "The Last Anchorite" on YouTube; the experience I reported was described by him in one of the episodes.

If you wish to then challenge the accuracy of what Fr. Lazarus says, well, calling any mystic a liar is like shooting fish in a barrell. The word of mystics, whether Christian monks, Hindu saddhus, or Sufi dervishes, can only be accepted as a matter of faith. For example, Jesus and St. John the Baptist were mystics par excellence, and we regard the latter as a supreme prophet, divine forerunner and agent of God, and the former as actually God himself, the Divine Logos incarnate in human form, based on faith.

So for me, based on the mystical claims that lie ar the center of my religion that I accept on faith, it is fairly easy to accept lesser mystical claims by pious and humble co religionists who are actively enduring death at the hands of the Islamic state.

 

[Alithis]

All indications in the Bible are that 'tongues' were a 'spiritual gift' offered to certain individuals which allowed someone who had NEVER learned a particular language to communicate to others regardless. Either directly or through an interpreter.
But we DO KNOW THIS: Paul laid out the RULES of tongues. No more than three in one gathering, by course, IN ORDER, and there MUST be an interpreter.
Any use of tongues in the 'church' that do NOT comply with these rules are OBVIOUSLY not offered 'as the Spirit gives utterance'. Either what I'm saying is TRUTH, or what YOU are saying is that Paul, (who openly stated that HE used tongues MORE THAN THE ENTIRE congregation), was WRONG.
Every reference to tongues in the ENTIRE Bible is in reference to LANGUAGES. The gibberish that many CALL tongues today is NOT a 'language'. It is meaningless gibberish. Or possibly WORSE, it is an attempt to emulate something contrary to the TRUTH.
Tongues are LANGUAGES.
And WHY would God need someone to make gibberish noises in order to communicate with Him? If He is GOD, He doesn't need some 'MISUNDERSTOOD' or 'non existent gibberish to KNOW what's in one's heart. We do NOT need to speak OPENLY in order to pray. If God can HEAR our voices, He can certainly hear what's IN OUR HEARTS.
And the most important statement that we have in the Bible that utterly destroys the concept of 'gibberish being tongues':
Tongues are FOR A SIGN, NOT to them that BELIEVE, but to them that BELIEVE NOT.
Now, how does one propose to 'speak in tongues' to NO ONE and it have any significant meaning? When the Bible PLAINLY states that: TONGUES ARE FOR A SIGN: not TO THEM THAT BELIEVE, but TO THEM THAT BELIEVE NOT.
Obviously this is in reference to LITERAL languages. But it certainly clears up any misunderstanding about ANYONE personally benefiting from speaking in gibberish. Unless, of course, you are claiming that you are a NON believer and somehow speaking in tongues is some sort of SIGN use to MAKE you a believer.
And I would ask anyone that is a proponent of 'speaking gibberish' to SHOW where we are to seek SELF EDIFICATION. We are to focus on what brings edification to the BODY, not SELF edification. Yet the Bible plainly reveals that speaking in tongues AGAINST the rules set down by Paul is nothing other than 'self edification'. A notion contrary to the Bible or the Body.
And so far as the opening statements of this thread, NOTHING offered by the author is Biblical. ALL that was offered is the TEACHING of 'certain churches' that encourage the practice of 'speaking in unknown tongues'. The points made are actually CONTRARY to the information we are offered in the Bible.
Is there a SINGLE person that claims to be a believer that believes we must speak with our MOUTHS in order for God to hear what we PRAY for? Or is it understood that God KNOWS what we pray without us EVERY having to open our mouths? For it would be a sad day indeed when one born without the ability to SPEAK openly, (mute), was unable to communicate with God for simply being unable to verbally SPEAK.
Blessings,
MEC

This is also opinion.. and its also imo incorrect.

 

[Alithis]

It is a factual recollection of reported mystical experiences. Look up "Coptic Father Lazarus" or "The Last Anchorite" on YouTube; the experience I reported was described by him in one of the episodes.

If you wish to then challenge the accuracy of what Fr. Lazarus says, well, calling any mystic a liar is like shooting fish in a barrell. The word of mystics, whether Christian monks, Hindu saddhus, or Sufi dervishes, can only be accepted as a matter of faith. For example, Jesus and St. John the Baptist were mystics par excellence, and we regard the latter as a supreme prophet, divine forerunner and agent of God, and the former as actually God himself, the Divine Logos incarnate in human form, based on faith.

So for me, based on the mystical claims that lie ar the center of my religion that I accept on faith, it is fairly easy to accept lesser mystical claims by pious and humble co religionists who are actively enduring death at the hands of the Islamic state.

did you just use factual and mystic in the same sentence?